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Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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    #5912
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Gravelly wrote: »
    The problem is the modern interpretation of liberalism.

    When I was in my 20's, I would have been most closely aligned politically with Labour - I shared (and still do) the view that we should all pull together, and a strong working class was essential for a strong country.

    My views have changed little in the meantime, but now Labour see the working class, especially the white working class, as the scum of the earth, and the family as something to be destroyed.

    Modern liberalism is utterly illiberal. It supports perversion, criminality, and anarchy, as long as the perpetrators can claim some kind of minority status. It has lost the run of itself.

    I could have written that post myself, bravo!

    Labour from voting age till about 37, Sinn Fein last ten years, Casey today but the next GE ? No clue as yet I have to say.

    Have to a party that cares more about normal working people than scum, so the AAA/PBP/them above are firmly out.


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    #5913
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    jmayo wrote: »
    True recidivism is not dealt with in Ireland, but that does not take away from fact that travellers account for a disproportionate amount of prisoners which should be a major concern and is not being addressed by travellers or their supporters.
    In fact you above are basically saying that it is societies fault.



    True, they had immunity from laws long before they were granted their special status.
    They are immune from laws on pollution, littering, child school attendance, motoring to name a few.



    AH FFS, maybe when you travel a bit you might learn the World out there doesn't give two shytes about a little country on the periphery of Europe.

    The only ones that know much about Ireland are the Irish diaspora, who BTW Casey actually wants to attract to this country to improve their knowledge of the place and people, and maybe some ones in a LGBT organisation who now know of us for being one of the first countries to vote for SSM.
    Apart from that most people haven't a fooking clue.

    FFS some people in our nearest neighbour think Dublin is in the bleedin UK. :rolleyes:



    What about the radio ones ?



    So if I voted with the Progressives in the recent referendums and for Casey this time what does that make me ?
    I suppose anything that isn't the same as you would be a start. :D



    You are now a racist.

    Welcome to the club, we will forward on the robes and flags over the coming weeks. ;)

    Give that I was a firm Yes to Marriage Equality and Repeal the 8th; also couldn't give a hoot what Trump does; am Catholic but voting to remove blasphemy today - and have been called a racist also on here, I wonder could we talk robe colours ?

    White's hell to get stains out of. Could we talk a nice dark blue ???


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    #5914
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    That was never proved or disproved. And was not implied by the tweet. The tweet simply said that Sinn Fein would produce the man that M. McGuinness had said 'claimed' that Gallagher had taken a check from.

    Gallagher - unsure of who he had taken cheques from - decided to implicate himself.

    Gallagher DID NOT SUE because that story was a lie, he sued because RTE had made a mistake in not checking the Tweet and had been therefore unfair to him.

    Nobody lied about Gallagher on the programme, the fact is Gallagher told the truth about himself. His campaign was over from that point.


    Geez Francie, is the truth anathema to you. What you said is untrue. Gallagher never accepted a donation from Hugh Morgan. Sinn Fein let it be known that the tweet was fake before the end of the programme but it wasn’t corrected, nor was it corrected the next day on the Pat Kenny show.

    You can’t just make things up to support your argument. You should at least create a fake Twitter account if you want to do that.

    Lying seems to come easy to fanboys of the the lying president.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



  • Options
    #5915
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Give that I was a firm Yes to Marriage Equality and Repeal the 8th; also couldn't give a hoot what Trump does; am Catholic but voting to remove blasphemy today - and have been called a racist also on here, I wonder could we talk robe colours ?

    White's hell to get stains out of. Could we talk a nice dark blue ???

    Wanting people to be treated equally seems to be right wing now. Unless it's women and members of LGBTQ.

    But you want members of the traveller community treated equally...Monster Monster


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    #5916
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    A man who has worked and been successful in business across all continents doesn't strike you as diplomatic and measured??

    My brother has done that.
    Made tons of money.
    Hasn't paid tax in Ireland since 1979 as he lives in Switzerland.
    Is he measured and diplomatic? - is he %"%%.
    Nice man my brother - but he'd make a terrible president. :D


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    #5917
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Also, in response to “Tweetgate” Mr. Higgins response was:

    “Michael D Higgins has said any candidate must satisfy every concern about trust and transparency.”


    Just not this time round. Right Micky?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5918
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    An awful lot of people, who recognise the problems, who know they are complicated and deep rooted throughout society, are just embarrassed by this man and the type of shouty nonsense politics(based on lies, half truths and cheap generalisation) he wants to introduce.

    Many people were far more embarrassed by Higgins' obsequious eulogies to dictators like Chávez and Castro, and his utter disregard for the victims of those oppressive regimes.

    "President Chávez achieved a great deal during his term in office, particularly in the area of social development and poverty reduction" fawned Higgins. I wonder how that poverty reduction is going now that 82% of Venezuelan households live in poverty and inflation is running at over one million percent? The legacy of Chávez is nothing but poverty and misery for millions.

    Higgins was then ridiculed around the world for characterizing Fidel Castro as a "giant among global leaders." As Senator Ronan Mullen asked: "If official Ireland now believes that political, religious and economic oppression of millions of people is worthy of praise, how can we claim to be a voice for human rights on the world stage?”

    Compared to the gross disrespect shown by Higgins to the victims of South American dictatorships, some comments about travellers camping on other people's land are barely worthy of notice.


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    #5919
    jmayo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,186 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Give that I was a firm Yes to Marriage Equality and Repeal the 8th; also couldn't give a hoot what Trump does; am Catholic but voting to remove blasphemy today - and have been called a racist also on here, I wonder could we talk robe colours ?

    White's hell to get stains out of. Could we talk a nice dark blue ???

    I have decided all robes will be Green and Red :D
    Oh and for an extra tenner you can get a hand embroidered Mayo 4 SAM on the back :D

    I am not allowed discuss …



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    #5920
    JMNolan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JMNolan


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    Many people were far more embarrassed by Higgins' obsequious eulogies to dictators like Chávez and Castro, and his utter disregard for the victims of those oppressive regimes.

    "President Chávez achieved a great deal during his term in office, particularly in the area of social development and poverty reduction" fawned Higgins. I wonder how that poverty reduction is going now that 82% of Venezuelan households live in poverty and inflation is running at over one million percent? The legacy of Chávez is nothing but poverty and misery for millions.

    Higgins was then ridiculed around the world for characterizing Fidel Castro as a "giant among global leaders." As Senator Ronan Mullen asked: "If official Ireland now believes that political, religious and economic oppression of millions of people is worthy of praise, how can we claim to be a voice for human rights on the world stage?”

    Compared to the gross disrespect shown by Higgins to the victims of South American dictatorships, some comments about travellers camping on other people's land are barely worthy of notice.

    No, you are wrong! Michael Tea is cute and has dogs and a tea cosy. As far as I can tell this is really why he is being supported by a lot of people.


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    #5921
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    The problem for Casey and his new found acolytes is that almost everyone recognises that there is a problem with traveller culture and welfare etc.


    Of all the silly statements in this thread, this one is right up there with the silliest.

    The fact that almost everyone recognises that there is a problem with traveller culture and welfare isn't a problem for Casey, it is a problem for the other political parties because they have done nothing about it. Some of them - PBP, Sinn Fein - are completely opposed to doing anything about the problems with traveller culture, other than blame the settled community. Others, such as FG and FF have paid lip service to the problem and are now being caught out.

    Many people agree with Casey but will still vote Higgins. If Casey gets anything close to 10%, that is a huge success. I don't think the PDs ever got close to 10% and Sinn Fein have struggled to get beyond 13-14%.

    Even getting 5-7% on the back of his message means more people listen to him than PBP or the Greens.


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    #5922
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    jmayo wrote: »
    I have decided all robes will be Green and Red :D
    Oh and for an extra tenner you can get a hand embroidered Mayo 4 SAM on the back :D

    Jaysus he won't have a hope of winning then :P


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    #5923
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    Many people were far more embarrassed by Higgins' obsequious eulogies to dictators like Chávez and Castro, and his utter disregard for the victims of those oppressive regimes.

    "President Chávez achieved a great deal during his term in office, particularly in the area of social development and poverty reduction" fawned Higgins. I wonder how that poverty reduction is going now that 82% of Venezuelan households live in poverty and inflation is running at over one million percent? The legacy of Chávez is nothing but poverty and misery for millions.

    Higgins was then ridiculed around the world for characterizing Fidel Castro as a "giant among global leaders." As Senator Ronan Mullen asked: "If official Ireland now believes that political, religious and economic oppression of millions of people is worthy of praise, how can we claim to be a voice for human rights on the world stage?”

    Compared to the gross disrespect shown by Higgins to the victims of South American dictatorships, some comments about travellers camping on other people's land are barely worthy of notice.

    Well we'll see how many people are so embarrassed by that tonight and tomorrow I suppose.

    *Ronan Mullin giving out about religious oppression. :):):):):)


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    #5924
    knipex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭knipex


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Look at the stats in recent refs. my friend, Progressives: 1, Sad Angry Losers: 0.

    Its this attitude that is driving the push to Casey.

    I voted yes in the last two referendums. I will also be voting for Casey because I am tired of insults and slander being the alternative to debate.


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    #5925
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    PlaneSpeeking wrote: »
    Then why ARE they exempt from so many laws ?

    They aren't.

    It's a failure of policing and the legal system to enforce the laws.

    I think the law should be enforced without fear or favour but the fact that some sections of Irish society have traditionally been allowed to get away with things isn't new nor is it confined to Travellers - the RCC were allowed to protect those members of the clergy who were accused of child abuse for decades. We currently have at least one TD who was described as "profoundly corrupt" by a tribunal.


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    #5926
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    Well we'll see how many people are so embarrassed by that tonight and tomorrow I suppose.

    Did it embarrass you to see the president of your country penning fawning eulogies for murderous dictators like Chávez and Castro? Yes or no?


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    #5927
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    They aren't.

    It's a failure of policing and the legal system to enforce the laws.

    I think the law should be enforced without fear or favour but the fact that some sections of Irish society have traditionally been allowed to get away with things isn't new nor is it confined to Travellers - the RCC were allowed to protect those members of the clergy who were accused of child abuse for decades. We currently have at least one TD who was described as "profoundly corrupt" by a tribunal.

    You could generalise all day about the RCC, call catholics every name under the sun, and not one of the "progressives" on this thread would raise a squeak.

    Do the same about travellers however.......


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    #5928
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 68,129 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Of all the silly statements in this thread, this one is right up there with the silliest.

    The fact that almost everyone recognises that there is a problem with traveller culture and welfare isn't a problem for Casey, it is a problem for the other political parties because they have done nothing about it. Some of them - PBP, Sinn Fein - are completely opposed to doing anything about the problems with traveller culture, other than blame the settled community. Others, such as FG and FF have paid lip service to the problem and are now being caught out.

    Many people agree with Casey but will still vote Higgins. If Casey gets anything close to 10%, that is a huge success. I don't think the PDs ever got close to 10% and Sinn Fein have struggled to get beyond 13-14%.

    Even getting 5-7% on the back of his message means more people listen to him than PBP or the Greens.

    We all know you blame SF for everything. Carry on.

    10% is an abject failure for Casey and I would take that as a triumph of democrats over those who want to introduce incitement to hate as a feature of our political landscape.


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    #5929
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    We all know you blame SF for everything. Carry on.

    10% is an abject failure for Casey and I would take that as a triumph of democrats over those who want to introduce incitement to hate as a feature of our political landscape.


    You are defending Sinn Fein and condemning incitement to hate in the same sentence. Are you playing Twister at home?

    Are you the guy who supported the guy who made fun of the Kingsmill Massacre on its anniversary?

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5930
    JeffKenna
    Registered Users Posts: 4,539 ✭✭✭JeffKenna


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    We all know you blame SF for everything. Carry on.

    10% is an abject failure for Casey and I would take that as a triumph of democrats over those who want to introduce incitement to hate as a feature of our political landscape.

    Before any exit polls come in, will you give a % that wouldn't be an "abject failure"?


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    #5931
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Before any exit polls come in, will you give a % that wouldn't be an "abject failure"?

    They were all cawing a week ago that he would be lucky to get 2%, now they are claiming 10% would be an "abject failure" - you can smell the fear off them.


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    #5932
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I think the law should be enforced without fear or favour but the fact that some sections of Irish society have traditionally been allowed to get away with things isn't new nor is it confined to Travellers - the RCC were allowed to protect those members of the clergy who were accused of child abuse for decades.

    The media recently reported on the case of Margaret Cash, a traveller who was taken out of school at age 12, married off at age 15, pregnant at 16, and a mother of seven by 28.

    Not a peep out of the left about travellers depriving kids of an education and then marrying them off to their cousins or second cousins while still in their mid-teens.

    That could be characterized as a form of child abuse in itself.


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    #5933
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    They aren't.

    It's a failure of policing and the legal system to enforce the laws.

    I think the law should be enforced without fear or favour but the fact that some sections of Irish society have traditionally been allowed to get away with things isn't new nor is it confined to Travellers - the RCC were allowed to protect those members of the clergy who were accused of child abuse for decades. We currently have at least one TD who was described as "profoundly corrupt" by a tribunal.

    The vast majority of members of the Catholic Church didnt abuse children and most of the TDS arent corrupt.

    The statistics for the travellers speak for themselves, they are a tiny minority but yet they make up huge numbers of the prison population. They must be in for serious crimes because we can see Mouth Cash can walk out of a department store with a trolley load of clothes and get a slap on the wrist. She has a list of previous convictions and no one can touch her because she is pregnant every year.

    The child benefit stops at sixteen if you arent in full time eucation so that is when the young female travellers have families of their own.

    If the Child Benefit wasnt paid to mothers under twenty would this stop the travellers dropping out of school. Could we link child benefit to educational qualifications or attendance at PLCS etc. Could we also stop paying Child Benefit after two children.

    The children have to be supported but instead of pushing cash into bank accounts the Government could issue vouchers for supermarkets and clothes shops. There would have to be a way of making sure these vouchers couldnt be cashed in off licences and they would have to be issued in such a way that they couldnt be sold for cash on done deal.

    The sad thing is we cant even remove traveller children from these dysfunctional backgrounds because we dont have a decent child protection service.

    Katherine Zappone, the tool that she is is spending her time digging up interred babies in Tuam, what is the point of this when we have living children in misery.

    Now we will have families who never gave a damn about those babies buried for the last fifty years queueing up with crocodile tears and claiming compensation, guess who is going to fund the compensation, Thanks Zappone.


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    #5934
    irishproduce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Ultimate Seduction wrote: »
    What is Peter saying he will do about the traveller problem? Not much he can do as president.

    See post 5747


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    #5935
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    jmayo wrote: »
    ectoraige wrote: »
    The problem isn't travellers being recognised as an ethnic group. The problem is our society failing to adequately address the many problems our society has.

    Recidivism is not restricted to the traveller community, there are repeat offenders and career criminals outside the traveller community too, and as a society we should be doing more to address this. Little is being truly done to limit the revolving doors in our courts.
    ...

    True recidivism is not dealt with in Ireland, but that does not take away from fact that travellers account for a disproportionate amount of prisoners which should be a major concern and is not being addressed by travellers or their supporters.
    In fact you above are basically saying that it is societies fault.
    ectoraige wrote: »
    Recognising travellers as a distinct ethnic group does not grant immunity to laws, and does not prevent the application of progressive social policies to make Ireland a better place in which to live.

    True, they had immunity from laws long before they were granted their special status.
    They are immune from laws on pollution, littering, child school attendance, motoring to name a few.

    EDIT: forgot animal cruelty as another law that never seems to be applied to them.
    Technocentral wrote: »
    Also after the recent referendum wins the rest of the civilised World looks to Ireland for decency and compassion, that toe rag is NOT the sort of person to represent the new Ireland.

    AH FFS, maybe when you travel a bit you might learn the World out there doesn't give two shytes about a little country on the periphery of Europe.

    The only ones that know much about Ireland are the Irish diaspora, who BTW Casey actually wants to attract to this country to improve their knowledge of the place and people, and maybe some ones in a LGBT organisation who now know of us for being one of the first countries to vote for SSM.
    Apart from that most people haven't a fooking clue.

    FFS some people in our nearest neighbour think Dublin is in the bleedin UK. :rolleyes:
    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Why does giving advance notice matter?

    There were 4 (?) televised debates, missed 50% of them

    What about the radio ones ?
    Technocentral wrote: »
    Look at the stats in recent refs. my friend, Progressives: 1, Sad Angry Losers: 0.

    So if I voted with the Progressives in the recent referendums and for Casey this time what does that make me ?
    I suppose anything that isn't the same as you would be a start. :D
    Omackeral wrote: »
    I voted for SSM and to Repeal the 8th but am voting Casey. Where does that put me on your scale of absolutes?

    You are now a racist.

    Welcome to the club, we will forward on the robes and flags over the coming weeks. ;)

    Im 50, travelled to every continent on Earth.


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    #5936
    SafeSurfer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,421 ✭✭✭SafeSurfer


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    The media recently reported on the case of Margaret Cash, a traveller who was taken out of school at age 12, married off at age 15, pregnant at 16, and a mother of seven by 28.

    Not a peep out of the left about travellers depriving kids of an education and then marrying them off to their cousins or second cousins while still in their mid-teens.

    That could be characterized as a form of child abuse in itself.

    Meanwhile rights organizations will use taxpayers money to campaign against female genital mutilation in Africa but not a peep about a 15 year old marrying here.

    Multo autem ad rem magis pertinet quallis tibi vide aris quam allis



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    #5937
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gravelly wrote: »
    You could generalise all day about the RCC, call catholics every name under the sun, and not one of the "progressives" on this thread would raise a squeak.

    Do the same about travellers however.......

    Be that as it may - Traveller's are not exempt from the laws of the State - nor should they be! - and it is also a fact that a blind eye is often turned to illegal activities carried out by non-Travellers.

    When our very police force has been shown to engage in illegal activities (anyone been prosecuted for the penalty points fiasco? ) we have a serious problem with law enforcement that goes waaaaay deeper than Travellers.

    Lack of accountability is endemic across all Irish society.


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    #5938
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    Did it embarrass you to see the president of your country penning fawning eulogies for murderous dictators like Chávez and Castro? Yes or no?

    I doubt it did. He probably welcomed those statements. Isn't Gerry Adams a good friend of those lads?


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    #5939
    irishproduce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    Anyone been out to vote for Peter yet?
    Come on here and tell us all to support the others who are going out to vote for him.
    I will do it on way home from work.

    Go on twitter if you are on twitter and put in some hashtag like #ivotedforpeter and get it trending


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    #5940
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    You are defending Sinn Fein and condemning incitement to hate in the same sentence. Are you playing Twister at home?

    Are you the guy who supported the guy who made fun of the Kingsmill Massacre on its anniversary?


    Yeah, he did. He believed that out of the hundreds of thousands of food products in the store, that the poor unfortunate public representative was just unlucky to have picked out that one single product on that one single day to put on his head and it was all a sad coincidence.

    You couldn't make it up.


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    #5941
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    I don't think the PDs ever got close to 10% and Sinn Fein have struggled to get beyond 13-14%.

    Even getting 5-7% on the back of his message means more people listen to him than PBP or the Greens.

    The PDs got 12% and won 14 Dail seats in their first election and went on to serve in 4 governments as well as influencing the body politic in terms of economic direction. Casey is still on the baby step if you are going to compare him to the PDs and is likely to remain there IMO.


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