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Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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    #6002
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gravelly wrote: »
    So breaking the law is the fault of the state, not the criminal?

    You would do well in Pavee Point, if you don't work there already.

    Sweetest divine :rolleyes:

    Every section of society breaks the law.
    Most likely every one has broken some law or other at some time (speeding/littering).

    People here are acting like all criminality in Ireland is down to Travellers. It patently is not.

    We do have a problem with the laws not being enforced and that is true across the spectrum of Irish society and yes - that failure is down to the Gardaí and the Courts.


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    #6003
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    Some of the insults on Twitter towards voters based on their candidate of choice is pretty nasty

    I also note no use of of the words "some" or a "proportion of"

    As much as people enjoy a debate here, it is a democracy, people can vote for whoever they want

    Twitter really is a cesspit


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    #6004
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well at least Casey had the balls to actually stand by his convictions.
    which is extremely rare. 99% of public figures after uttering an un-PC "gaffe" would have curled up in the foetal position and begged for forgiveness from the media intelligentsia. Casey doubled down - that is refreshing.


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    #6005
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    blanch152 wrote: »
    That is an incredible cop-out. I cannot believe you are defending the misogynistic nature of Traveller culture. And that culture is not only deeply misogynistic, it is deeply homophobic as well. Do you have any views on this news article:


    https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2016/0929/820182-being-a-gay-traveller/


    As I have pointed out, I will not stop criticising African tribes for FGM, neither will I stop criticising Muslims for their treatment of women, or Jews and Muslims for unnecessary circumcisions, and I will continue to criticise the Travelling community for their misogynist and homophobic culture.

    Get off the stage.

    I defended nothing.

    I pointed out that in Ireland getting married at 15 is legal.
    I gave no opinion as to whether or not I think that is acceptable. (I don't btw)


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    #6006
    pumpkin4life
    Registered Users Posts: 1,435 ✭✭✭pumpkin4life


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Money D's party is looking to subvert the referendum. Eric and Nonso have zero right to be here. Their parents knew this, yet stayed anyway. It's their fault, not ours. Kids are also extremely adaptable.

    Incredible how gullible and NPC (to quote that great term) the Irish are.

    In 2004, 80% of people voted against this, but now? We do have the immigration numbers and a new generation of young people now I suppose to throw this off.

    The country continues its decline into a neoliberal hellhole.

    That's why the Casey vote is important, or more important than people make it out to be.


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    #6007
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Elaina Gigantic RuleMGS wrote: »
    Fcuk off :rolleyes:

    Extreme poverty ??

    The mother and father were born in 1938 and 1940 respectively, not exactly golden days.

    Antisocial incidents, arrests, driving offences, criminal convictions between them ?

    Zero.


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    #6008
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    tretorn wrote: »
    You will probably find that the mother frustrated the deportation order with the help of Free legal aid, some solicitors providing this service are earning a couple of million euros a year through this work. This has to stop, there should be only one appeal allowed when a deportation order is issued and it would be even better if illegal immigrants werent even allowed to leave Dublin airport. Accommodation should be provided for them there and decisions made within days and if they dont qualify for asylum then they should be flown back to where they came from.

    People signing petitions for the child in Bray are looking at the micro picture, they arent looking at the bigger question which is the hundreds of thousands of people who will move to Europe if they think they can stay here for years avoiding deportation and then finally be allowed to stay because a school principal orgnises a petition.


    Absolutely, the problem is 100% the delay in dealing with cases, and this is what people should be outraged at. Allowing that child to stay doesn't mean an effective immigration policy can't be introduced, however.


    When people made him staying the focus of their anger, rather than the abysmal immigration service, it just makes them seem to lack compassion.


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    #6009
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    People here are acting like all criminality in Ireland is down to Travellers. It patently is not.

    Nobody has said that all criminality in Ireland is due to Travellers. That's a strawman if I ever saw one.

    Nevertheless, it's a reality that Travellers make up just 0.6 percent of the Irish population and yet account for 10 percent of male prisoners and 22 percent of female prisoners in the country.

    Travellers are therefore responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of criminal behavior in Ireland, relative to their representation in the population.


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    #6010
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Sweetest divine :rolleyes:

    Every section of society breaks the law.
    Most likely every one has broken some law or other at some time (speeding/littering).

    People here are acting like all criminality in Ireland is down to Travellers. It patently is not.

    We do have a problem with the laws not being enforced and that is true across the spectrum of Irish society and yes - that failure is down to the Gardaí and the Courts.

    Nobody here stated all criminality is down to travellers, you made that up.

    Again (why do you have to be told everything 5 or 6 times?) travellers are the only group in Irish society who have a sizeable number of people claiming that their criminality is not their fault, but somehow the fault of the state of the Gardaí.
    It is an utterly ridiculous proposition.


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    #6011
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    normanoffside wrote: »
    I don't understand the constant babbling on about Left and right regarding travellers and social welfare spongers.

    I have read Karl Marx, and his theories are about the nationalising the means of production and giving fair pay to all workers.
    There is nothing there about free housing and welfare payments if you chose not to work. In fact I have been to Cuba during Castro's time and those who refuse to work are homeless and destitute.

    under a proper leftist system everyone is in fact expected to work.

    Anyone who is physically and mentally able to work and is employable should be working, in education or on a training course, the State is too lenient on shirkers. Btw whats a proper lefist system, id be more in favour of Scandinavian model.


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    #6012
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    tretorn wrote: »
    Ahem, 99.9 % of the population dont need anyone to enforce the laws that are there so we can have a civilised society. These people obey the law because its the right thing to do and not because we need a Garda car to sit outside where we live to follow us in case we go travelling with the intention of finding an old person living alone to beat up for a few euros.

    You are a disgrace and I really hope you arent employed as a public servant in some travellers rights organisation. Travellers make me angry but you make me seethe.

    Oh get real.



    To think that settled people don't rape, murder, abuse, drink drive, speed, deal drugs, steal, etc etc is deluded.


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    #6013
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    To think that settled people don't rape, murder, abuse, drink drive, speed, deal drugs, steal, etc etc is deluded.

    To imagine that rates of petty criminality, assault, domestic abuse, drug use, animal abuse, etc., among settled people is remotely equivalent to the Traveller population is also deluded.


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    #6014
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gravelly wrote: »
    You're a gas character. Here you are, trying to shout down any criticism of traveller criminality, while criticising anyone who isn't risking their safety and career to fight traveller criminality.

    What an utter hypocrite.

    Again you have to be rude.

    I am in favour of the law being enforced equally across all sections of society.
    Funny - I say that and you call me a hypocrite why extolling Casey for, apparently, calling for Travellers to be treated equally.

    Some one isn't being consistent and it's ain't me bub.

    I am not hypocritical enough to claim settled people don't commit crimes or to claim some settled people don't get away with breaking the law - or were, for example, those penalty points the some guards made go away belonging to Travellers?


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    #6015
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    I am not hypocritical enough to claim settled people don't commit crimes

    Can you indicate where anybody argued that settled people don't commit crimes?


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    #6016
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Money D's party is looking to subvert the referendum. Eric and Nonso have zero right to be here. Their parents knew this, yet stayed anyway. It's their fault, not ours. Kids are also extremely adaptable.


    It's their fault they came here, it's our fault we let them stay so long.


    Eric's mother has been here for 12 years, Nonso's 11. Whether their parents knew they had no right to stay is immaterial - our system needs to recognise that people will make claims that they shouldn't, and deal with them appropriately.


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    #6017
    normanoffside
    Registered Users Posts: 9,985 ✭✭✭normanoffside


    Technocentral wrote: »
    Btw whats a proper lefist system, id be more in favour of Scandinavian model.

    By that I mean a socialist/communist system.
    I'd also be in favour of a Scandinavian model of welfare, but again in this case you are encouraged to work by your payments dropping if you don't go back to employment.
    Our system is not really left by any standards it's just messed up.


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    #6018
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    Nobody has said that all criminality in Ireland is due to Travellers. That's a strawman if I ever saw one.

    Nevertheless, it's a reality that Travellers make up just 0.6 percent of the Irish population and yet account for 10 percent of male prisoners and 22 percent of female prisoners in the country.

    Travellers are therefore responsible for a hugely disproportionate share of criminal behavior in Ireland, relative to their representation in the population.

    Did you miss the claim that 99.9% of Irish people don't break the law?
    EVER.


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    #6019
    irishproduce
    Registered Users Posts: 2,817 ✭✭✭irishproduce


    If you are voting Peter Casey today, then consider giving him number 1 and do not enter any other preferences.

    If you enter preferences for 2, 3, 4 etc then those persons could benefit from your transfers.
    If you want to maximise the benefit of your vote for Casey then only enter a number 1 preference and nothing else.

    That way no transfers go to anyone else.


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    #6020
    Sunny Disposition
    Registered Users Posts: 2,759 ✭✭✭Sunny Disposition


    Casey was going to come last, so he tried something. Its probably going to work, he probably won't be last, although he won't win.

    There is a need for a lot of issues around Travellers to be addressed though, they are way overrepresented in the courts and underrepresented in the workplace. Anyone with the least bit of cop on knows that.


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    #6021
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    tretorn wrote: »
    Ahem, 99.9 % of the population dont need anyone to enforce the laws that are there so we can have a civilised society.
    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    Can you indicate where anybody argued that settled people don't commit crimes?

    Only 0.01% do apparently.


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    #6022
    Elaina Gigantic Rule
    Posts: 0 ✭ Elaina Gigantic Rule


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Did you miss the claim that 99% of Irish people don't break the law?
    EVER.

    That wasn’t the claim. The claim was most (the number was a silly one but not meant to be matter of fact you know that as well as everyone else), settled people know what the law is and will follow it. Travellers however will subvert the law to suit themselves.


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    #6023
    xckjoo
    Registered Users Posts: 3,379 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Are people voting for Casey as a "protest vote" against Travellers or is there something else I'm missing?


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    #6024
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Elaina Gigantic RuleMGS wrote: »
    That wasn’t the claim. The claim was most (the number was a silly one but not meant to be matter of fact you know that as well as everyone else), settled people know what the law is and will follow it. Travellers however will subvert the law to suit themselves.

    No. They don't.
    As any trip to most Irish beaches on a Summer evening will demonstrate.

    Or is it Travellers leaving all the litter?


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    #6025
    Annasopra
    Registered Users Posts: 41,053 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well at least Casey had the balls to actually stand by his convictions.

    He wouldnt if he was elected but sure anyway...

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



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    #6026
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Are people voting for Casey as a "protest vote" against Travellers or is there something else I'm missing?

    No, just that, sad isnt it?


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    #6027
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    To imagine that rates of petty criminality, assault, domestic abuse, drug use, animal abuse, etc., among settled people is remotely equivalent to the Traveller population is also deluded.
    Keep telling the TRUTH .


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    #6028
    McMurphy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,365 ✭✭✭✭McMurphy


    FrancieBrady wrote: »

    He is the only candidate caught lying in numerous ways during this campaign.

    Learjet.


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    #6029
    Technocentral
    Registered Users Posts: 6,102 ✭✭✭Technocentral


    normanoffside wrote: »
    Technocentral wrote: »
    Btw whats a proper lefist system, id be more in favour of Scandinavian model.

    By that I mean a socialist/communist system.
    I'd also be in favour of a Scandinavian model of welfare, but again in this case you are encouraged to work by your payments dropping if you don't go back to employment.
    Our system is not really left by any standards it's just messed up.

    Socialism/Communism leads to bankruptcy, no thanks.


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    #6030
    JMNolan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JMNolan


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Are people voting for Casey as a "protest vote" against Travellers or is there something else I'm missing?

    We're all racist. Every PC voter is a racist.


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    #6031
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,923 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Are people voting for Casey as a "protest vote" against Travellers or is there something else I'm missing?

    Protest vote against being gagged by a compliant media on ANYTHING they don't agree with, together with a kick off against the order from Vlad as to how to vote. Together with trying to swing the pendulum a bit more towards those who get up in the morning and pay for everything, but get nothing.

    Casey will not win, but if enough of us give him a no.1 scratch, the next Dail Election may turn out to be interesting. The people have spoken.

    Hmmph, a fiver + Christmas bonus to the non workers and a euro or two to those paying for it. No wonder people are fed up and a bit riled. Casey has given permission to speak at last.

    Maybe.


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