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Peter Casey believes Travellers should not be recognised as an ethnic minority

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    #5942
    JMNolan
    Registered Users Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭JMNolan


    irishproduce wrote: »
    Go on twitter if you are on twitter and put in some hashtag like #ivotedforpeter and get it trending

    I'd love to but imagine the abuse I'd get. Plus, I imagine the accusations of racism could affect me professionally. So I'll keep my support to myself although I have voted for PC this morning.


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    #5943
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Be that as it may - Traveller's are not exempt from the laws of the State - nor should they be! - and it is also a fact that a blind eye is often turned to illegal activities carried out by non-Travellers.

    When our very police force has been shown to engage in illegal activities (anyone been prosecuted for the penalty points fiasco? ) we have a serious problem with law enforcement that goes waaaaay deeper than Travellers.

    Lack of accountability is endemic across all Irish society.

    Yet there is no group or taxpayer-funded organisation calling for Gardaí to be immune from prosecution, or claiming that criminality by Gardaí should be ignored as it is part of their culture, unlike the case with travellers.

    Start a thread on Garda crime and see if a bunch of you lot start deflecting and calling critics of the Gardaí racists and bigots.

    Travellers are sacred cows, Gardaí, politicians, priests, or anyone else can be criticised by anyone at any time.


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    #5944
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,643 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    naughtb4 wrote: »
    Didnt that sort of happen last time?

    Gallagher was ahead in the polls, an untrue statement was erroneously? made on national TV and Higgins got in?

    That he was a FF bagman was true, that he had a lot of explaining about his business affairs to do was true.

    Both of those left enough questions about his character unanswered.


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    #5945
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    irishproduce wrote: »
    Anyone been out to vote for Peter yet?
    Come on here and tell us all to support the others who are going out to vote for him.
    I will do it on way home from work.

    Go on twitter if you are on twitter and put in some hashtag like #ivotedforpeter and get it trending

    I'm off work today, and just about to leave the house to vote #1 for Casey.


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    #5946
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,643 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    The PDs got 12% and won 14 Dail seats in their first election and went on to serve in 4 governments as well as influencing the body politic in terms of economic direction. Casey is still on the baby step if you are going to compare him to the PDs and is likely to remain there IMO.

    I'd guess that Casey will do well in places the PDs never even had a chance and worst in areas where they were strong.


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    #5947
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Trevor Tight Plantation wrote: »
    The media recently reported on the case of Margaret Cash, a traveller who was taken out of school at age 12, married off at age 15, pregnant at 16, and a mother of seven by 28.

    Not a peep out of the left about travellers depriving kids of an education and then marrying them off to their cousins or second cousins while still in their mid-teens.

    That could be characterized as a form of child abuse in itself.

    Does the left enforce the laws in this country?
    No.

    That is the job of the courts and the police.

    If Margaret Cash got married in Ireland aged 15 than either the courts gave permission or it was not a legal marriage.
    Exemption from age requirement
    In certain special circumstances, you may be able to get a Court Exemption Order allowing the marriage to proceed even if one or both parties are under 18. The court will require you to show:

    That there are good reasons for your application
    That the granting of such an Exemption Order is in the best interests of the parties to the intended marriage
    You should contact either the Circuit Family Court or the High Court for details on how to proceed. This is an informal procedure. You may apply in person (without hiring a solicitor). There is no court charge for an application for a Court Exemption Order. However, if you hire a solicitor to represent you, you will have to pay him/her.
    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    Did Travellers write that law? No.

    A Minister for Justice introduced legislation that allows people under the age of 18 to get married. Is that a form of child abuse?


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    #5948
    qo2cj1dsne8y4k
    Closed Accounts Posts: 23,646 ✭✭✭✭qo2cj1dsne8y4k


    Voted for PC there this morning. Miggledee #2


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    #5949
    daithi7
    Registered Users Posts: 1,294 ✭✭✭daithi7


    I'm voting for Casey, his presidency would be fun.

    P.s. and all of the others strike me as disingenuous, two faced, power hungry politicians who would do anything to get into or retain the (unreceipted expense bonanza) office of President .
    Pity, no great candidate.


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    #5950
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Does the left enforce the laws in this country?
    No.

    That is the job of the courts and the police.

    If Margaret Cash got married in Ireland aged 15 than either the courts gave permission or it was not a legal marriage.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    Did Travellers write that law? No.

    A Minister for Justice introduced legislation that allows people under the age of 18 to get married. Is that a form of child abuse?

    The traveller break most of the laws anyway so they would marry their children at sixteen whether it was legal or not. They know full well the Government will turn a blind eye because the powers that be turn a blind eye to most of the illegal behaviour the travellers engage in.

    Most decent responsible parents want a better life for their children than they had themselves, this is why they get their children up and out to school and dont withdraw their daughters at sixteen to marry them off to first cousins. This is a gross practice and Pavee Point should be vocal in discouraging it.


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    #5951
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    tretorn wrote: »
    The vast majority of members of the Catholic Church didnt abuse children and most of the TDS arent corrupt.


    Way to completely miss the point I was making about lack of enforcement of the laws not just being confined to Travellers.

    As for the Zappone tangent - I'm not a fan of hers but whatever, glad you got that off your chest even if the bit about Tuam was breathtakingly insensitive to the feelings of the families of those children.


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    #5952
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,643 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Does the left enforce the laws in this country?
    No.

    That is the job of the courts and the police.

    If Margaret Cash got married in Ireland aged 15 than either the courts gave permission or it was not a legal marriage.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    Did Travellers write that law? No.

    A Minister for Justice introduced legislation that allows people under the age of 18 to get married. Is that a form of child abuse?

    The laws aren't enforced for them.

    Her parents could be investigated for abuse or neglect.

    As for education, most traveller children are kept out of school, there parents screw them over. Sending a child to school for a month or two a school year is wringing your child greviously.

    Who'll complain, who will draw that world of pain on themselves.


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    #5953
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    SafeSurfer wrote: »
    Meanwhile rights organizations will use taxpayers money to campaign against female genital mutilation in Africa but not a peep about a 15 year old marrying here.

    Then campaign to have the law changed.


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    #5954
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Then campaign to have the law changed.

    And be harrassed, called a racist by every "progressive" moron in the country, have your employer contacted in an effort to get you sacked, be threatened and slandered.

    Not many people up for that.


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    #5955
    ectoraige
    Registered Users Posts: 2,100 ✭✭✭ectoraige


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    Look at the recent furore over the 2004 ref. Don't vote the way we want, it doesn't count. I'm sure the rest of the civilised world are looking on aghast that the constitutional will of the people is ignored by the government.


    134 children have been deported in the last five years. The will of the people was not ignored, and the amendment does allow for the legislature to rule in this area.


    What shouldn't happen is the huge delay in dealing with people's cases. The mother of the nine-year-old boy in Bray had been in Ireland since 2006, he was born in 2009, and she didn't receive a deportation order until 2015.


    It shouldn't take nine whole years for the state to decide send her back where she came from, that's recklessly inefficient.


    Our justice system is similarly under-resourced, every week we see people convicted for crimes committed while on bail for other charges, that can take years to be heard before the courts.


    This is what needs to actually be addressed, not sending nine-year-old children who grew up alongside our children to a foreign country where they also don't have citizenship rights. We may as well have sent that child to Timbuktu.


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    #5956
    gmisk
    Registered Users Posts: 32,402 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    irishproduce wrote: »
    Anyone been out to vote for Peter yet?
    Come on here and tell us all to support the others who are going out to vote for him.
    I will do it on way home from work.

    Go on twitter if you are on twitter and put in some hashtag like #ivotedforpeter and get it trending
    I dont see that one trending the only tweet with that hashtag is from 2013....... but #KeepThePoet is

    David Quinn, John McGuirk and Keith Mills are having a fit RE Michael D....that should be reason enough for people to vote for him!


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    #5957
    Danzy
    Registered Users Posts: 13,643 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Gravelly wrote: »
    And be harrassed, called a racist by every "progressive" moron in the country, have your employer contacted in an effort to get you sacked, be threatened and slandered.

    Not many people up for that.

    1950s Ireland controlling mindset today calls itself progressive.


  • Options
    #5958
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    Gravelly wrote: »
    Yet there is no group or taxpayer-funded organisation calling for Gardaí to be immune from prosecution, or claiming that criminality by Gardaí should be ignored as it is part of their culture, unlike the case with travellers.

    Start a thread on Garda crime and see if a bunch of you lot start deflecting and calling critics of the Gardaí racists and bigots.

    Travellers are sacred cows, Gardaí, politicians, priests, or anyone else can be criticised by anyone at any time.

    Who is calling for Travellers to be exempt from prosecution?

    If such a thing exists - and I would need proof - I certainly would disagree.


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    #5959
    c.p.w.g.w
    Registered Users Posts: 4,994 ✭✭✭c.p.w.g.w


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Then campaign to have the law changed.

    Then be calling a bigot for suppressing they culture


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    #5960
    xi5yvm0owc1s2b
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭xi5yvm0owc1s2b


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Does the left enforce the laws in this country?
    No.

    That is the job of the courts and the police.

    If Margaret Cash got married in Ireland aged 15 than either the courts gave permission or it was not a legal marriage.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    Did Travellers write that law? No.

    A Minister for Justice introduced legislation that allows people under the age of 18 to get married. Is that a form of child abuse?

    The only group of people in Ireland who routinely demand permission for children to get married in their mid-teens are Travellers. And if courts won't grant permission, they send them to the North or to England, where Traveller girls are known to get married on their 16th birthday.

    Pointing fingers at the courts and the Minister for Justice is typical of those who would prefer not to criticize Traveller culture.

    Any culture that forces children into marriage at age 15 is not worthy of respect -- and yet few on the left dare criticize Travellers for this for fear of seeming "racist."

    15-year-olds should be doing their Junior Cert, not settling into married life.


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    #5961
    Fann Linn
    Registered Users Posts: 7,782 ✭✭✭Fann Linn


    JeffKenna wrote: »
    Before any exit polls come in, will you give a % that wouldn't be an "abject failure"?

    Anything more than what McGuinness or Mitchell polled I'd guess.


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    #5962
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Deleted User wrote: »
    The PDs got 12% and won 14 Dail seats in their first election and went on to serve in 4 governments as well as influencing the body politic in terms of economic direction. Casey is still on the baby step if you are going to compare him to the PDs and is likely to remain there IMO.

    10% from nowhere would be comparable to the 12% of the PDs starting with established TDs.

    It would be more than Sinn Fein have ever got in any general election except the last one. It would be more than the Greens have ever got in any general election. It would be more than the PBP have ever got in any general election.


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    #5963
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Who is calling for Travellers to be exempt from prosecution?

    If such a thing exists - and I would need proof - I certainly would disagree.

    Pavee Point for one.


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    #5964
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Who is calling for Travellers to be exempt from prosecution?

    If such a thing exists - and I would need proof - I certainly would disagree.

    Pavee Point always come out in support of travellers when they run illegal sulky races, torture animals, engage in riots and mass brawls during weddings, christenings, funerals etc.

    But you know all this already, like everyone else does.


  • Options
    #5965
    blinding
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,466 ✭✭✭blinding


    Danzy wrote: »
    1950s Ireland controlling mindset today calls itself progressive.
    Stand up for what you believe to be the TRUTH not what the Political and Media establishment dictate to you is the TRUTH .

    We have already been down that road in Ireland and it did not end well .


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    #5966
    Bannasidhe
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 19,219 Mod ✭✭✭✭Bannasidhe


    tretorn wrote: »
    The traveller break most of the laws anyway so they would marry their children at sixteen whether it was legal or not. They know full well the Government will turn a blind eye because the powers that be turn a blind eye to most of the illegal behaviour the travellers engage in.

    Again - if this is true - it is a failure by the State to enforce the laws.


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    #5967
    tretorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,800 ✭✭✭tretorn


    ectoraige wrote: »
    134 children have been deported in the last five years. The will of the people was not ignored, and the amendment does allow for the legislature to rule in this area.


    What shouldn't happen is the huge delay in dealing with people's cases. The mother of the nine-year-old boy in Bray had been in Ireland since 2006, he was born in 2009, and she didn't receive a deportation order until 2015.


    It shouldn't take nine whole years for the state to decide send her back where she came from, that's recklessly inefficient.


    Our justice system is similarly under-resourced, every week we see people convicted for crimes committed while on bail for other charges, that can take years to be heard before the courts.


    This is what needs to actually be addressed, not sending nine-year-old children who grew up alongside our children to a foreign country where they also don't have citizenship rights. We may as well have sent that child to Timbuktu.

    You will probably find that the mother frustrated the deportation order with the help of Free legal aid, some solicitors providing this service are earning a couple of million euros a year through this work. This has to stop, there should be only one appeal allowed when a deportation order is issued and it would be even better if illegal immigrants werent even allowed to leave Dublin airport. Accommodation should be provided for them there and decisions made within days and if they dont qualify for asylum then they should be flown back to where they came from.

    People signing petitions for the child in Bray are looking at the micro picture, they arent looking at the bigger question which is the hundreds of thousands of people who will move to Europe if they think they can stay here for years avoiding deportation and then finally be allowed to stay because a school principal orgnises a petition.


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    #5968
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Who is calling for Travellers to be exempt from prosecution?

    If such a thing exists - and I would need proof - I certainly would disagree.

    Oh and the John Connors/Joan Collins (thank f**k not THAT one)/Posh Boy Barrett/Scruffy Twats Daly and Mick and the Should Be In Jail Murphy - them lot.


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    #5969
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Again - if this is true - it is a failure by the State to enforce the laws.

    So breaking the law is the fault of the state, not the criminal?

    You would do well in Pavee Point, if you don't work there already.


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    #5970
    PlaneSpeeking
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,106 ✭✭✭PlaneSpeeking


    tretorn wrote: »
    You will probably find that the mother frustrated the deportation order with the help of Free legal aid, some solicitors providing this service are earning a couple of million euros a year through this work. This has to stop, there should be only one appeal allowed when a deportation order is issued and it would be even better if illegal immigrants werent even allowed to leave Dublin airport. Accommodation should be provided for them there and decisions made within days and if they dont qualify for asylum then they should be flown back to where they came from.

    People signing petitions for the child in Bray are looking at the micro picture, they arent looking at the bigger question which is the hundreds of thousands of people who will move to Europe if they think they can stay here for years avoiding deportation and then finally be allowed to stay because a school principal orgnises a petition.

    You ever see that Border Control programme about Oz ?

    It's brutal on some cases but by God they'll send you right back home or lock you up till a plane seat is free.

    anyone know a reason why we can't do that ?


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    #5971
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,438 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Bannasidhe wrote: »
    Does the left enforce the laws in this country?
    No.

    That is the job of the courts and the police.

    If Margaret Cash got married in Ireland aged 15 than either the courts gave permission or it was not a legal marriage.

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/birth_family_relationships/getting_married/legal_prerequisites_for_marriage.html

    Did Travellers write that law? No.

    A Minister for Justice introduced legislation that allows people under the age of 18 to get married. Is that a form of child abuse?


    That is an incredible cop-out. I cannot believe you are defending the misogynistic nature of Traveller culture. And that culture is not only deeply misogynistic, it is deeply homophobic as well. Do you have any views on this news article:


    https://www.rte.ie/lifestyle/living/2016/0929/820182-being-a-gay-traveller/


    As I have pointed out, I will not stop criticising African tribes for FGM, neither will I stop criticising Muslims for their treatment of women, or Jews and Muslims for unnecessary circumcisions, and I will continue to criticise the Travelling community for their misogynist and homophobic culture.


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