The Sub 4 Support Thread

andrew1977 wrote: »

The dreaded calf injury has hit .
Ran 2.5km last night , had to pull up and stop , couldn't run another yard.
Was only putting the runners back on after 8 days of resting the calf.

Disaster so close to the big day, looks like I might not make the start line now, or rest it completely until marathon day and hope to get round it.
Sub 4 dream out the window for this year by the looks of it.

I’m going through the exact same thing except I’ve missed my last 3 long runs now. Tried upto 4 days rest with physio and didn’t work so trying 7-10 days rest this time. the whole thing just tightens up all of a sudden during a run. Once it loosens out after a few days it feels perfect but then same thing happens again so not sure if 7-10 days rest really will fix it - especially as you say you did 8 days. I started swimming yesterday instead to keep me occupied. Best of luck.

andrew1977 wrote: »

The dreaded calf injury has hit .
Ran 2.5km last night , had to pull up and stop , couldn't run another yard.
Was only putting the runners back on after 8 days of resting the calf.

Disaster so close to the big day, looks like I might not make the start line now, or rest it completely until marathon day and hope to get round it.
Sub 4 dream out the window for this year by the looks of it.

Sorry to hear this news andrew1977 and Kellygirl. Would it be worth a visit to a physio (if you haven't gone already) to see if everything is ok biomechanically? The reason I say this, is that I have had this problem before (calf and also an IT band) after only 2-3K of running and turns out that my leg lengths were out by about half an inch due to a pelvis/lower back issue. I was gently pushed back into place by my physio and was ok after 2-3 days of rest and was back running. My friend had the exact same problem with a calf and he got sorted too after I sent him to my physio.

The physio I go to is Michael Spillane's First Physio in Clondalkin, but I am sure that others on Boards can recommend a physio closer to you if this it not a suitable location for you. A good indication of good/bad biomechanics is to see if your ankles are in line with each other or are out of kilter (works for me anyway). My physio says to me that usually when only one side of the body is strained/sore, poor biomechanics can often be the issue.

Hope this helps....best of luck!

The Black Oil wrote: »

Gave this a go tonight.

2:01:19. 14 miles at 8:40.
8:43, 8:37, 8:34, 8:35, 8:39, 8:40, 8:43, 8:34, 8:55, 8:37, 8:39, 8:38, 8:40, 8:42
HRM 151 avg, 181 max.

Taper starts now.

Well done!!!


Did this session yesterday morning as well. Lovely conditions for it - if even a bit warm.



How did you feel after it? Have you decided what to aim for on the day now?


Was hoping this would give me some clarity on whether I could/should aim for the 3.40 or not!! But still feel undecided...

coogy wrote: »

When is your next run K?

Not until next Wednesday! Giving it the full 10 days. Discussed it with the physio and she reckoned 7-10 days. At this stage I’d rather be conservative and figure what’s another few days now anyway. She wants me to go out and do an easy 2 hours / 13 miles or so and if I can do that then I’m good to go to the start line. She’s hoping keeping the paces slow will reduce the forces on the soleus and stop it tightening up again.

Swimming and Pool Running is keeping me going but not the same. I feel perfect which is the hard part in one way as feel I should be running.

Kellygirl wrote: »

Well just worked out Wednesday will be 11 so may be doing that - thinking I might do the Tuesday at 10 days I really feel good as it fits in better with real life. Hopefully the rest will have worked.

I'm also dealing with a dodgy calf but maybe a bit further down the road towards recovery. I found it can tolerate spin biking as well as long as you don't get out of the saddle whilst giving it socks.
Might be worth getting as much different exercises in whilst its getting better to keep you sane and the fitness levels up.

It sucks being injured this close but there is always another race, loads of them in fact!
Personally speaking, if I don't feel that my own dodgy calf is going to last the distance on the day I'm not going out just to finish and wreck myself, it's just not worth it. I enjoy running too much to put myself out of action for months just for the sake of a single race, as much as I want my first marathon to be DCM. Hope it gets better soon for you.

The Black Oil wrote: »

Thanks ariana`



Thanks. Not as tired as other Wednesdays, to be fair. Before the FD10 I was training around 9 min/mi for MP stuff. After that race, I adjusted my MP to 8:40 with the calculator. This is taking calculator feedback with a grain of salt, of course. As for DCM itself, I'll still probably go out with the 4 hour pacers, do the rubber band thing and see if there's anything left in the tank around UCD onwards. Roughly how I'm looking at things at the moment. Post-FD10 the calculator said 3:47 for marathon, but...

I ran 4:11 last year. And, conscious of talk somewhere else in the forum about the race lulling you into a false sense of security, not really beginning until mile 18/20, etc. Undecided too.

What calculator are you using TBO - The Run Fast Coach one? I'm no expert but i think your plan sounds good to me but it probably seems conservative to more ambitious runners who might encourage you to go for 3:55-3:50.

But i'd probably be doing exactly what you're doing! The calculator gives me 3:54 (based on a HM in September) and i'll probably start behind the 4 hr pacers also but i'll let them disappear and pace myself at about 4:06 pace. Hopefully i can pull off a negative split to knock a couple of minutes off that, i'd love to finish under 4:04 (so i actually shouldn't be posting here at all really ).

Supercell wrote: »

It's just a strain I think. I had been doing new calf exercises prior to my 20 miler a few weeks back ironically, which seems to have been the trigger for the injury as the added load seems to have made them temporarily weakened. It was fine on shorter runs prior but around 15 miles into the 20 miler it felt sore but thought it was just a niggle and kept going. I could barely walk for the next week or so, but got better eventually and can now run ok, have stopped those exercises until after the marathon (if I run it now!).

I find on the bike what works for me is to try and make sure my foot is pointing down a bit and positioned well over the pedal if that makes sense?, and don't get out of the saddle when going hard (like in a spin class or uphill i guess outside).
The pool running sounds like it might be closest to the real thing though, I imagine it feels a bit strange, have never tried it .

Thanks for the response. I have no pain but the calf has been tightening up all of a sudden during a run and then the pain comes but goes away with rest and physio.

The pool running is good. You wear a belt which the lifeguard gave me and just run in the deep end. Another boards member sent me a workout to do to make it more interesting. Well worth doing.

Kellygirl wrote: »

Thanks for the response. I have no pain but the calf has been tightening up all of a sudden during a run and then the pain comes but goes away with rest and physio.

The pool running is good. You wear a belt which the lifeguard gave me and just run in the deep end. Another boards member sent me a workout to do to make it more interesting. Well worth doing.

So you tread water? , I was wondering, I had mental images of running in the shallow end which would involve landing on the sore calf which seemed a bit counter intuitive.

coogy wrote: »

That's great! Hope everything comes together for you!

Would you recommend introducing swimming/ pool running as part of marathon training in general?

My physio certainly would recommend Pool Running as part of training. She treats a guy who is apparently a great runner and he swears by it so she tells all her clients to do it. I’d say you need to work fairly hard at it for it to be of benefit though.

Supercell wrote: »

So you tread water? , I was wondering, I had mental images of running in the shallow end which would involve landing on the sore calf which seemed a bit counter intuitive.

Do a search on YouTube for it - for pool running. You wear a special belt that keeps you afloat and literally do the running motion in the deep end then. I did a session yesterday with warm up, pyramid tempo, some sprints and a cool down.

Lazare, another boardsie, did a class in Dublin the other night but there are no classes in Cork. The public pool I’m using just happened to have a few of the belts but the lifeguard who showed me how to do it told me you can get great Speedo belts for about €30.

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

+1 hope you get good news re. calf Kellygirl

Thanks a mill. Hope so too.

The Black Oil wrote: »

That's the one alright. Only used it for training paces, really. Not sure how much weight to give it re potential outcomes. Taper madness hasn't hit yet. :P

No, me neither, the training paces seem more conservative than other calculators but i'm not sure about predicted race times, i haven't compared it with McMillan or others since my HM.

That's good think it's starting for me although today my injury seems to be my jaw so thankfully that shouldn't effect me running :pac:

ewc78 wrote: »

Speaking of race predictors and the like. I've been using a website called Runalzye for the past 6 months.
What it does is it pulls data from your Strava/Garmin and it takes into account every single run you do and and uses the data of each run like heartrate,pace and distance, it even takes into account the weather conditions.
What it does then is calculate times for distances from 1km to Marathon based off all this data it has collected. It gives plenty of other info also like Vo2 max.
How accurate it is I don't know but maybe because it has been tracking every run for 6 months it may give you a better picture than say a predictor that you just enter 1 race time.
At the moment it is telling me a 4:01 Marathon, so I'm happy enough with that and think I can dip under the sub 4.
It's pretty spot on with my other times like 5km and 10km PBs.
https://runalyze.com

That's an interesting one alright. Presumably the heart rate data is the critical piece of info. Without it the paces of runs mean nothing...

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

That is interesting, telling me 4.11 marathon based on an import. Which kinda is the same kinda time I was thinking for myself

That sounds very promising. Were you able to import the last 6 months from Garmin or did you just import a few weeks?

tHE vAGGABOND wrote: »

Yea it only took in 3 months or so. I think some of the times it predicts for shorter are way off - but I dunno, maybe under rate myself

Sound thanks i'll try it out and see what it comes up with!