The Sub 4 Support Thread

ariana`

boardtc wrote: »

Lazare, did you use a negative split with the pacing band ? I've unsure about negative split for marathon distance though it has worked for me with halves.

I believe he did but i'll let him fill you in himself...

But in the meantime fwiw DCM is an ideal course for a negative split, the highest point of the course comes at approximately 7m or 11k. I ran a 7 min neg split last year which was ridiculous really but i was running well within myself due to injury. I'd say you could (or even should) plan for a small neg split. It's a great feeling to get faster as you go along rather than fading and if it's worked for you in halves then i can't see why it wouldn't work again.

boardtc

Lazare wrote: »

Their job is to run even splits. You definitely utilise them, you just don't run with them the whole way.

I caught them at mile 19 then used them. They got me there.

I jumped the gun on my post there and caught up with the thread since, @ariana, I thought I had deleted it before anyone saw it!!

I did a 20miler race on Sunday last and bonked at 25k, due I think to sleeping in and missing proper breakfast :-(. I finished in 3.15, whereas my only previous 20 miler was just sub 3.

@Lazare, I loved your post where you quoted your 2.30ish friend about doing first half in 2:01/2:02 and jogging the hills.

Did you use the aggressive negative split with the pacing band or just the negative? I saw your comment about targetting 3.55!!? Better than an aggressive course based negative for 3.59?

I got changed from wave 3 to 2 but now I am thinking about dropping back to wave 3 on the day to have the 4-hour pacers there to catch them at mile 19!

ewc78

Sports massage. Anyone ever get one?Worth it? How far out from Marathon should you be getting one?

coogy

ariana` wrote: »

I believe he did but i'll let him fill you in himself...

But in the meantime fwiw DCM is an ideal course for a negative split, the highest point of the course comes at approximately 7m or 11k. I ran a 7 min neg split last year which was ridiculous really but i was running well within myself due to injury. I'd say you could (or even should) plan for a small neg split. It's a great feeling to get faster as you go along rather than fading and if it's worked for you in halves then i can't see why it wouldn't work again.

I've been checking out findmymarathon.com looking at the splits that it generates for DCM based on my own target time.
I don't know how useful something like this but it's definitely given me a good idea in my head of how I should manage my pacing on the day.......

coogy

boardtc wrote: »

I got changed from wave 3 to 2 but now I am thinking about dropping back to wave 3 on the day to have the 4-hour pacers there to catch them at mile 19!

I was really hoping to change from Wave 3 to Wave 2 also.

How did you manage to do that? Already emailed the DCM email address but received no response.....:(

OOnegative

coogy wrote: »

I was really hoping to change from Wave 3 to Wave 2 also.

How did you manage to do that? Already emailed the DCM email address but received no response.....:(

Ring them, number is in the Dublin Marathon thread.

01 6232250 there’s the number

boardtc

coogy wrote: »

I was really hoping to change from Wave 3 to Wave 2 also.

How did you manage to do that? Already emailed the DCM email address but received no response.....:(

I replied to the wave email at the office address giving them my half time of 1.48 and that I had PBed by 2 minute and was now targetting 3.44 :cool: This thread has since taught me how unrealistic that is :mad: No response for a while, then I got a reply late last week to say I was moved...

Swashbuckler

I've often wondered why don't people just ask for wave 1 when registering, knowing dropping down waves is no issue and then change it later? Not asking to be a smart-ass, just curious more than anything.

Kellygirl

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I've often wondered why don't people just ask for wave 1 when registering, knowing dropping down waves is no issue and then change it later? Not asking to be a smart-ass, just curious more than anything.

This year was different in that waves were allocated based on previous times and you couldn’t choose your wave.

Swashbuckler

Kellygirl wrote:

This year was different in that waves were allocated based on previous times and you couldn’t choose your wave.

Presumably you have to input a target time though? Maybe I'm way off on the ethics of it all but why not put in a target of 3.15 and then drop down a wave if needed? Or is that considered a no no

boardtc

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I've often wondered why don't people just ask for wave 1 when registering, knowing dropping down waves is no issue and then change it later? Not asking to be a smart-ass, just curious more than anything.

FYI there is no information about waves when registering, it's not visible, it asked for an expected finishing time, I put 4 hours. I got the recent email to say I was in wave 3 and I was like oh there are waves. I then read the faq and found out you could move down but it gives no info on moving up or on how the waves are split.

I talked to someone at the weekend who put down 3.59 as expected finishing time and got wave 2.

Kellygirl

Swashbuckler wrote: »

Presumably you have to input a target time though? Maybe I'm way off on the ethics of it all but why not put in a target of 3.15 and then drop down a wave if needed? Or is that considered a no no

I don’t remember 100% but I don’t think so this year. I think it was your most recent time unless you hadn’t done one before and not sure in that case.

RayCun

They definitely asked for an expected finish time. May have asked for PB as well.

coogy

Swashbuckler wrote: »

I've often wondered why don't people just ask for wave 1 when registering, knowing dropping down waves is no issue and then change it later? Not asking to be a smart-ass, just curious more than anything.

I suppose as a novice, I didn't really consider how being in one wave and not another might hinder my performance on the day or at least have an influence on my mental preparations for the day itself.

Hedgehoggy

Question for meno peeps past and present!!!

wondering what people who are following the plan are planning for the next two weeks

This weekend - 1. steady with the last few at MP; or 2. 10 easy and 10 MP? - Think I'll go for the second option myself?

Next weekend - either 16 m easy of 10k race - There is a 10k near me which I could do so thinking of that option - but would be concerned that a race would be too much for the legs at the moment

Any pros cons to either choice for both weeks???

cullenswood

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Question for meno peeps past and present!!!

wondering what people who are following the plan are planning for the next two weeks

This weekend - 1. steady with the last few at MP; or 2. 10 easy and 10 MP? - Think I'll go for the second option myself?

Next weekend - either 16 m easy of 10k race - There is a 10k near me which I could do so thinking of that option - but would be concerned that a race would be too much for the legs at the moment

Any pros cons to either choice for both weeks???

I'm doing Option 1 at the weekend, just because it will be handy to go out with the pacer in the Kilcock 3/4 marathon, and then hopefully ease away in the last few miles.
For next week I am going to do the 16miler. I think a 10k race could kill me at this stage.
Its the Wednesday session that is scaring me at the moment!

Hedgehoggy

cullenswood wrote: »

I'm doing Option 1 at the weekend, just because it will be handy to go out with the pacer in the Kilcock 3/4 marathon, and then hopefully ease away in the last few miles.
For next week I am going to do the 16miler. I think a 10k race could kill me at this stage.
Its the Wednesday session that is scaring me at the moment!

Ya - thinking that wednesday session will be really make or break time on the pace for DCM!

The Black Oil

Re the 22 miler: I0 easy, 10 MP, 2 c/d and hope I don't feel too sore then on Monday.

16m for Sunday week.

duffer247

Hi all
Just going back to the conversation on Waves like many others I'm in wave 3 as I was aiming for 4hrs etc. I rang the number earlier posted and they said they have gone to print and can't change now.
She said there's a 10min start time difference on the waves and her only advice was to get to the front of wave 3.
Anyone know how strict they are on waves?

Edit; Aiming to go with 3.40 pacers

HankSchrader

duffer247 wrote: »

Hi all
Just going back to the conversation on Waves like many others I'm in wave 3 as I was aiming for 4hrs etc. I rang the number earlier posted and they said they have gone to print and can't change now.
She said there's a 10min start time difference on the waves and her only advice was to get to the front of wave 3.
Anyone know how strict they are on waves?

Pretty sure the 4hr pacers are in wave 3 if that's what your looking for? 3:50 are in wave 2.

RayCun

.

Wave 1 starts at 9am and has pacers 3.00 3.10 and 3.20
Wave 2 starts at 9.15 and has pacers 3.30 3.40 and 3.50
Wave 3 starts at 9.30 and has pacers 4.00 4.10 and 4.20
Wave 4 starts at 9.45 and has pacers 4.30 4.40 and 5 hrs.

duffer247

HankSchrader wrote: »

Pretty sure the 4hr pacers are in wave 3 if that's what your looking for? 3:50 are in wave 2.

Sorry re-reading my post it was not very clear, on foot of training and 1/2 marathon finish time I am aiming for a faster time then when I had initially entered DCM. To go with the relevant pacers I need to be Wave 2.

roosterman71

I was always under the impression that this last 20 miler/3 quarter run was to be raced. Are ye saying now it should be a handy run?

DubOnHoliday

roosterman71 wrote: »

I was always under the impression that this last 20 miler/3 quarter run was to be raced. Are ye saying now it should be a handy run?

The quote of the week from our coach was that many people have left their marathon behind them at the 3/4.
I’m not doing that race, I’ve 21 mile to do, the last few at MP.

Djoucer

roosterman71 wrote: »

I was always under the impression that this last 20 miler/3 quarter run was to be raced. Are ye saying now it should be a handy run?

Definitely don’t race it. The pacers will be going slower so you don’t leave your marathon race in Athlone.

From the race page.

“Pacers will be running at approx 105% of the 3.00, 3.30, 4.00 and 4.30 Hour MARATHON Pace.
We’re pacing 5% slower than your marathon pace to make sure you don’t empty the tank on this event which should be treated as preparation race for DCM.”

OOnegative

Djoucer wrote: »

Definitely don’t race it. The pacers will be going slower so you don’t leave your marathon race in Athlone.

From the race page.

“Pacers will be running at approx 105% of the 3.00, 3.30, 4.00 and 4.30 Hour MARATHON Pace.
We’re pacing 5% slower than your marathon pace to make sure you don’t empty the tank on this event which should be treated as preparation race for DCM.”

And don’t go anywhere near Athlone for the 3/4 as it’s in Longwood!!!

Murph_D

Hedgehoggy wrote: »

Question for meno peeps past and present!!!

wondering what people who are following the plan are planning for the next two weeks

This weekend - 1. steady with the last few at MP; or 2. 10 easy and 10 MP? - Think I'll go for the second option myself?

Next weekend - either 16 m easy of 10k race - There is a 10k near me which I could do so thinking of that option - but would be concerned that a race would be too much for the legs at the moment

Any pros cons to either choice for both weeks???

I think the main point of that last 20+ miler is to have some quality in it - so whatever you do, try to avoid just treating it as a slow run. Have at least some steady or MP in there, or both.

Re the following week, I agree with the others. The 14 @ MP is the key session of that whole plan if you ask me. I don’t know what meno had in mind following if up with a 5-10k race. Having done the plan a few times, my focus was always, 14 @ MP then taper.

ewc78

Did the 20 mile yesterday morning. 10 easy then 10 at Marathon Pace.

Hedgehoggy

Murph_D wrote: »

I think the main point of that last 20+ miler is to have some quality in it - so whatever you do, try to avoid just treating it as a slow run. Have at least some steady or MP in there, or both.

Re the following week, I agree with the others. The 14 @ MP is the key session of that whole plan if you ask me. I don’t know what meno had in mind following if up with a 5-10k race. Having done the plan a few times, my focus was always, 14 @ MP then taper.

Thanks - ended up doing a WU then 12 steady followed by 6@MP. Was a hard workout and psychologically a tough run for me from the off and for some reason had to stop for traffic at every junction I had to go through which was very frustrating.


Will def skip the 10k and go the LSR route. Bring on the taper!

andrew1977

The dreaded calf injury has hit .
Ran 2.5km last night , had to pull up and stop , couldn't run another yard.
Was only putting the runners back on after 8 days of resting the calf.

Disaster so close to the big day, looks like I might not make the start line now, or rest it completely until marathon day and hope to get round it.
Sub 4 dream out the window for this year by the looks of it.