Driving Truisms

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 2:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

No, they're waiting to finish reading the latest WhatsApp thread on their phone.

When people are trying to get to work on time, cyclists are generally faster than motor traffic.

OF course you can do this - just like all the other drivers;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc5VGuJvOVk

What amazed me most about that video was the number of cyclists deliberately putting themselves illegally in places that could get them killed. Sailing through red lights, or turning illegally while expecting every car driver to anticipate their illegal actions and not kill them. Bizarre behaviour as if they had a death wish.

Yeah, the routine breaking of red lights by motorists has become so endemic, it really doesn't amaze much anymore.

This may come as a surprise to you, but the vast majority of cyclists don't have a death wish. They are normal people who just want to get home safely to their families, just like you.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-09-2018 2:39pm

Uriel Ambitious Retirement wrote: »

Of all the vehicles that broke the red light, you focus on the 1 cyclist that did it?

I read that as (I think) his point was cyclists willfully putting themselves in danger.
A bus driver RLJs, hes grand. Might kill someone else, but hes grand.
A cyclist doesnt have the luxury of a few tonnes steel around him.

PlaneSpeeking · 24-09-2018 2:43pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as (I think) his point was cyclists willfully putting themselves in danger.
A bus driver RLJs, hes grand. Might kill someone else, but hes grand.
A cyclist doesnt have the luxury of a few tonnes steel around him.

Plus they do have me calling them a c**t when they go through a red at the O'Connell St/Abbey St junction all the f**king time!!!!!!

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 2:45pm

storker wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

What's the difference?

Other than the cyclists using much less space, I mean.

The cars are not choosing deliberately to take up the extra space. Cyclists going two abreast are. As I said (and you ignored) I try to make room for them to pass. I rarely see similar courtesy from cyclists...note that they don't need to slow down or move in, just change formation. The car doesn't have this option.

Of course they're doing it deliberately. They deliberately chose to buy a large vehicle that normally travels with four empty seats. They deliberately chose to drive that journey, instead of choosing a more space efficient mode.

Any car can pull over and let faster cyclists through at any time.

If you think that you can safely pass a line of cyclists in single file without moving into the next lane, you need to go back to driving school.

https://youtu.be/JB9d-c-M7D0

blanch152 · 24-09-2018 2:45pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as (I think) his point was cyclists willfully putting themselves in danger.
A bus driver RLJs, hes grand. Might kill someone else, but hes grand.
A cyclist doesnt have the luxury of a few tonnes steel around him.

Exactly, a car driver or a bus driver breaking a red light doesn't have to give a second thought to his own safety because of modern day vehicles, but cyclists, well they seem unconcerned at the huge risks they are taking.

xckjoo · 24-09-2018 2:50pm

Behind the wheel of a car is the only place you can safely pick your nose without being seen :pac:

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 2:51pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as (I think) his point was cyclists willfully putting themselves in danger.
A bus driver RLJs, hes grand. Might kill someone else, but hes grand.
A cyclist doesnt have the luxury of a few tonnes steel around him.

Exactly, a car driver or a bus driver breaking a red light doesn't have to give a second thought to his own safety because of modern day vehicles, but cyclists, well they seem unconcerned at the huge risks they are taking.

Do many cyclists get killed or injured as a result of taking these huge risks?

Do you let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving just because they have a metal cage around them?

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 2:55pm

PlaneSpeeking wrote: »

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

I read that as (I think) his point was cyclists willfully putting themselves in danger.
A bus driver RLJs, hes grand. Might kill someone else, but hes grand.
A cyclist doesnt have the luxury of a few tonnes steel around him.

Plus they do have me calling them a c**t when they go through a red at the O'Connell St/Abbey St junction all the f**king time!!!!!!

Is it mainly or solely cyclists that you notice breaking the lights at this junction?

joe40 · 24-09-2018 2:56pm

Traffic light commands in rural Ireland:
Green - Go
Amber - Accelerate
Red - Proceed with caution

Steve F · 24-09-2018 2:58pm

Driving whilst hand holding a mobile phone is illegal but driving and eating isn't?

Roger Hassenforder · 24-09-2018 3:05pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do many cyclists get killed or injured as a result of taking these huge risks?

Do you let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving just because they have a metal cage around them?

im a cyclist and a motorist, and thats a strawman

Anyone RLJing is currently "wrong". (Notwithstanding the effect of one is probably a lot less than the other).

The point was if you're going to willfully jump a red light, in a steel box, you have some protection to mitigate the effect of your recklessness. You i.e. the driver probably wont be hurt.

A cyclist, has a glorified egg box on their head, if at all, to mitigate their decision. The consequences for them is potentially a lot worse.

So why so wilfully take the risk. The hazard is the same, but the potential injuries very different.From a self preservation perspective its madness for a cyclist. For a motorist it makes perfect sense.

The effect of your decision on others was not the point.

greenspurs · 24-09-2018 3:12pm

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaannd .

The person who drives a car VS the person that cycles a bike begins .........

BeerWolf · 24-09-2018 3:19pm

wexie wrote: »

Never expect people to signal correctly on a roundabout and act accordingly

When I took my first driving test way back in the earlier 2000s I got an instant red tick because of some jackass giving the wrong signals to which I acted to accordingly as one normally would.

Fecking test instructor wouldn't explain himself for that. Guessing it was one of those meeting failure quotas... :rolleyes:

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 3:19pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do many cyclists get killed or injured as a result of taking these huge risks?

Do you let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving just because they have a metal cage around them?

im a cyclist and a motorist, and thats a strawman

Anyone RLJing is currently "wrong". (Notwithstanding the effect of one is probably a lot less than the other).

The point was if you're going to willfully jump a red light, in a steel box, you have some protection to mitigate the effect of your recklessness. You i.e. the driver probably wont be hurt.

A cyclist, has a glorified egg box on their head, if at all, to mitigate their decision. The consequences for them is potentially a lot worse.

So why so wilfully take the risk. The hazard is the same, but the potential injuries very different.From a self preservation perspective its madness for a cyclist. For a motorist it makes perfect sense.

The effect of your decision on others was not the point.

So you ARE choosing to let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving because they have a metal cage around them. Just because "that's not the point" apparently.

It may not be your point, but it is a very important point. The greatest responsibility is on those causing the greatest harm. Motorists break red lights, break speed limits, break mobile phone laws with impunity every day.

But you are trying to divert attention from this with a "look over there" action, despite having zero evidence of the harm arising.

Just for your information, some more enlightened authorities are making it legal for cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances - see video for more details

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

blanch152 · 24-09-2018 3:20pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do many cyclists get killed or injured as a result of taking these huge risks?

Do you let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving just because they have a metal cage around them?

Yes, many cyclists get injured as a result of taking these risks, I know a few of them myself.

Nope, I don't let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

The risk factor for cyclists going through a red light is much higher than the risk factor for a driver doing the same. Both are doing something illegal, one is taking a bigger risk than the other, that is all.

I am saying that I don't understand the one taking the bigger risk, but what I can conclude from the reaction I am getting from cyclists on here is that it may come down to risk perception and understanding. Better education of cyclists on risks may be needed.

blanch152 · 24-09-2018 3:25pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you ARE choosing to let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving because they have a metal cage around them. Just because "that's not the point" apparently.

It may not be your point, but it is a very important point. The greatest responsibility is on those causing the greatest harm. Motorists break red lights, break speed limits, break mobile phone laws with impunity every day.

But you are trying to divert attention from this with a "look over there" action, despite having zero evidence of the harm arising.

Just for your information, some more enlightened authorities are making it legal for cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances - see video for more details

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

You completely miss the point.

All of the drivers who broke the red light in the original video were committing an offence, careless driving I would guess, rather than the dangerous driving you suggest it was. However, that offence was at little risk to their personal safety.

A number of cyclists were also committing an offence, including one who came round the corner on a red light and surprised the person with the camera. However, their actions were at great personal risk to their own safety.

It is not letting motorists off the hook for dangerous driving to point out the risk differential. It is actually quite scary that some seem to think the risks are equal.

blanch152 · 24-09-2018 3:30pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it mainly or solely cyclists that you notice breaking the lights at this junction?

Again, does that matter? The cyclist breaking the lights is taking a risk to their own personal safety.

It is not just with cars, there is plenty of footage from Luas as well.

http://www.thejournal.ie/luas-transdev-cyclist-3502181-Jul2017/

I am not condoning anyone's illegal behaviour, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians all engage in illegal behaviour every day. I am just mystified by the risks that cyclists take.

Grayson · 24-09-2018 3:36pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

So you ARE choosing to let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving because they have a metal cage around them. Just because "that's not the point" apparently.

It may not be your point, but it is a very important point. The greatest responsibility is on those causing the greatest harm. Motorists break red lights, break speed limits, break mobile phone laws with impunity every day.

But you are trying to divert attention from this with a "look over there" action, despite having zero evidence of the harm arising.

Just for your information, some more enlightened authorities are making it legal for cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances - see video for more details

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

I think the point they were trying to make is that it's bad for others when they both do it. However it's really bad for the cyclist when they do it. You'd imagine someone in such a fragile position would take more care of themselves. Motorists feel safer because they have a metal cage around them. It doesn't make what they do any less wrong, it's just that they will have a sense of security when they do it that the cyclist doesn't.

It's nothing to do with the ethics of jumping a light but rather the possible consequences for both if something goes wrong.

btw, my pet hate is motorists and indicators. Did anyone else notice that quite a few cars that were turning didn't indicate?

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 3:45pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am just mystified by the risks that cyclists take.

I'm mystified by your obsession with cyclists while motorists are killing 3 or 4 people each week on the roads and maiming many more.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-09-2018 3:46pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

1So you ARE choosing to let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving because they have a metal cage around them. Just because "that's not the point" apparently.

It may not be your point, but it is a very important point.2 The greatest responsibility is on those causing the greatest harm. Motorists break red lights, break speed limits, break mobile phone laws with impunity every day.

3 Bur you are trying to divert attention from this with a "look over there" action, despite having zero evidence of the harm arising.

Just for your information, some more enlightened authorities are making it legal for cyclists to break red lights in some circumstances - see video for more details

https://youtu.be/Brh9Dv_5NaA

Dude/Cathy

You're just strawmaning at this stage.
Three of them. Ive marked them for you

Im not advocating letting anyone off anything.
Im not advocating turning a blind eye etc.

You argued in respect of a self preservation point , it was clarified a different point was being made, and youve doubled down ( trebled down?)

Take your "more enlightened" and reread what i said, enlightenment comes from within. Or something.
You're not the only cyclist here.

Chips Lovell · 24-09-2018 3:46pm

blanch152 wrote: »

I am not condoning anyone's illegal behaviour, drivers, cyclists, pedestrians all engage in illegal behaviour every day. I am just mystified by the risks that cyclists take.

Grayson wrote: »

I think the point they were trying to make is that it's bad for others when they both do it. However it's really bad for the cyclist when they do it.

Lads, this is After Hours. Making reasonable points has no place here. Either pick up your pitchfork or go home.

Roger Hassenforder · 24-09-2018 3:48pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

I'm mystified by your obsession with cyclists while motorists are killing 3 or 4 people each week on the roads and maiming many more.

Thread was a bit of craic while it lasted...

Roger Hassenforder · 24-09-2018 3:51pm

Will try and get back on topic.

VW Golf drivers are almost always overly aggressive, rude and boy racery.

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 3:52pm

blanch152 wrote: »

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Do many cyclists get killed or injured as a result of taking these huge risks?

Do you let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving just because they have a metal cage around them?

Yes, many cyclists get injured as a result of taking these risks, I know a few of them myself.

Nope, I don't let motorists off the hook for dangerous driving, that has nothing to do with what I am talking about.

The risk factor for cyclists going through a red light is much higher than the risk factor for a driver doing the same. Both are doing something illegal, one is taking a bigger risk than the other, that is all.

I am saying that I don't understand the one taking the bigger risk, but what I can conclude from the reaction I am getting from cyclists on here is that it may come down to risk perception and understanding. Better education of cyclists on risks may be needed.

So that's a No to my 'anyone killed' question then. And to the 'anyone injured', you have some anecdotal stories - not exactly a sound basis for public policy initiatives?

Why would you be so keen to prioritise educating cyclists on risk taking, and not educating motorists on not killing 3 or 4 people each week on the roads?

AndrewJRenko · 24-09-2018 4:06pm

blanch152 wrote: »

It is not letting motorists off the hook for dangerous driving to point out the risk differential. It is actually quite scary that some seem to think the risks are equal.

Who said that the risks are equal? The risks are a long, long way off equal.

The risks arising from a 10 kg bike doing 10-20 kmph are negligible compared to the risks arising from a 1-5 tonne car or SUV doing 20-150 kmph. A quick look at our road safety statistics confirm this. 75% of road deaths are motorists killing other motorists and passengers. Those metal cages aren't quite so invincible as you might think.

greenspurs · 24-09-2018 4:09pm

Same auld ****e being spouted now -

" And for that reason , I'm Out " ......

PlaneSpeeking · 24-09-2018 4:10pm

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Is it mainly or solely cyclists that you notice breaking the lights at this junction?

It's all cyclists. Not that you'll believe that but I'm there every day.

Cars doing so would hit the LUAS coming down Abbey St.

mordeith · 24-09-2018 4:10pm

Most female drivers driving mini coopers are speed demons

PlaneSpeeking · 24-09-2018 4:12pm

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Thread was a bit of craic while it lasted...

Usually is till...........

tigerboon · 24-09-2018 4:13pm

Charles Babbage wrote: »

And the young female with the ridiculous woolen hat when it isn't winter.

And the 20 something lad in the hatchback with the hoodie up......is your heater not working or something?

Driving Truisms

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