Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

devnull wrote: »

Go Ahead have released an update on their progress - key points highlighted below.
https://www.go-aheaddublin.ie/newsroom-2/go-ahead-ireland-enjoys-surge-recruitment-depot-nears-completion/

Go-Ahead Ireland has signed an agreement with SIPTU to provide GAI with sole recognition for its employees

After a detailed consultation process GAI is pleased to announce an agreement with SIPTU (Services Industrial Professional and Technical Union). The agreement ensures our drivers and general operatives are represented in a mutually beneficial manner. We look forward to working alongside SIPTU now and into the future on matters relating to collective bargaining", said Ed Wills, Managing Director of GAI at today's announcement.

These are known as closed-shop pre-entry agreements and they are potentially unconstitutional and are contrary to the European Convention on Human Rights.

There are pre and post entry type agreements, post entry have already been deemed unconstitutional here (ironically involving CIE), but pre have not yet been dealt with by the Irish Courts, although the European Court of Human Rights has stated they are a breach of human rights. ECHR decisions are not binding here (but need to be judicially noted), and only SIPTU continue to make such agreements (they had one with Connex when the LUAS started and a few other companies) as all other unions have steered away from them, just in case a case is taken here in which case it is highly likely they will also be deemed unconstitutional.

bk wrote: »

There are many reasons why a person might choice one company over the other.

First of all, there maybe more drivers looking to move then DB/BE are looking to take on.

Also someone might not like the "culture" at DB/BE, might not like the whole marked in culture and having to work crappy schedules for years if not decades. The schedules being offered by GA might be "better" or at least more dependable.

Given that it is a new company that is obviously hungry to grow, some enthusiastic individuals might feel they will have a better opportunity to grow and quickly move up the ladder in a new, growing company like this, then a mature company where people have already been in the position for a long time.

Of course if GA can't get enough drivers at the wage they are offering, they will have to up what they are offering.

The accepted wisdom on Boards,appears to revolve around posters regularly popping in to warn off applicants to BAC with doom laden warnings of "being spare for decades" etc etc.

Anybody contemplating a career in Public Transport,at ANY level will not experience a "normal" working environment and those who do,will rapidly fall aside.

That being said,the actual experience in BAC over the past 4 years,has not seen "90% of them new drivers leaving"...or "Half of them only lasting a month" etc etc,

The progress from New Entrant to experienced confident appointed Staff Member is something which all companies seek to ensure is as smooth and supportive as possible,and BAC are no different.

Within BAC these days,there are a multiplicity of roster/shift arrangements which staff operate,sometimes by means of local agreement or Managerial facilitation,but large numbers of spare drivers are availing of the opportunity to work-around what IS a highly demanding requirement to provide a Driver for every duty as required by the Contract.

With the arrival of expanded BusConnects operating hours,and 24 hour routes,this variety will Increase,bringing with it,additional flexibility of working arrangements,which,I fully expect the Canteen Oracles to see as a bad thing also :rolleyes:

Go-Ahead Ireland will have the same requirement,(verifiable IF and when,the NTA/Go-Ahead Contract is finally placed in the Public Domain) and I can be VERY confident in 12 months time,this thread will have a selection of GAI Staff giving out yards about dreadful duties,long spreadovers,and harsh uncaring management,who are dreadfully unfair.

New Entrants,who are prepared to keep an open mind,assess and adopt to the new-world,which Public Transport Operation may initially seem,will in time bed in,and learn to enjoy the Job for what it is...unique

As the Go Ahead recruitment process has proven,there is No shortage of potential Busdrivers (oddly enuf,Wage Rates not the primary consideration )...plenty of interest in the Job,and with a proper Staff Training and Development regime,a very lucrative step for a 21 year old to take as a medium term move.

The real losers here,are the indigineous Irish Operators,who have been happily exploiting young drivers for decades,with "In your hand" attractive sounding per-day payments,along with a requirement to "keep your phone on" and an interpretation of "Keep yer head to the wind" FAR beyond what any BAC BE or GAI driver would ever be required.

The arrival of a Professional,Large Scale Public Transport Operating group,can only be a good thing for the Irish PT Bus industry as a whole,and particularly for young Busdrivers,seeking a foothold and a possibility for further progression.

There has NEVER been a better time to get involved in the Bus Sector in Ireland,if you have an interest or leaning towards it...If,however you just want to sit around the Campfire and draw upon memories of the (often NOT so Good ol Days) whilst dooming & glooming all and sundry,then perhaps it's time to take a look at the thousands of opportunities available,in other FAR more Attractive and Lucrative occupations...yea ? ?

Creative83 wrote: »

What are 'yellow pack' wages :rolleyes:

"Yellow pack" means cheap.

The phrase is derived from Tesco supermarket which used it for their low priced (and probably lower quality) range of products.

tabbey wrote: »

"Yellow pack" means cheap.

The phrase is derived from Tesco supermarket which used it for their low priced (and probably lower quality) range of products.

The phrase was actually derived from the UK Fine Fare chains "Yellow Price Packs" brand which they launched in 1980. It was a term used to describe "low price" (hence the Yellow price Packs name) in house products and quickly was simply referred to as a "Yellow Pack" (aka cheap) products and Pat Quinn introduced the brand here under that term in 1981 for Quinnsworth products and he is often incorrectly recognised as coining the phrase.

Tesco introduced the "Value" (originally "Value Lines") product in competition with the Yellow Pack type brands.

It quickly became a term used to describe workers on less pay doing the same job as those before them.

markodaly wrote: »

Did the driver drive 83 hours or 'work' 83 hours.
Also, zero hour contracts are a pretty much outlawed.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/contracts_of_employment/contracts_without_specific_working_hours_zero_hours_contracts.html

Not yet, but will be soon bar for some casual workers. The Bill to outlaw them is currently at the 4th stage (out of 5) in the Dail. It may still some time off before the Bill becomes an Act though.

I bet there is a massive jump from SIPTU to the NBRU this week.

Big’ Jim Larkin would be turning in his grave .

Has anybody heard how the management and supervisor jobs that were recently filled by GAI compare with their DB counterparts for wages?

dublinman1990 wrote: »

I wouldn't know what to say from Go Ahead's perspective if they have to change their bus routes they had initially agreed to run going from their contract in the first place. Their contract with the NTA lasts for five years. BusConnects is being implemented only a year later while they are in existence while they run the original contracted routes from Dublin Bus. I'm for one am not sure about how these proposed routes for BusConnects are factored in with Go-Ahead.

I suppose if I could take an idea of routes in Blackrock & Dun Laoghaire. Here is what I could think could how they could be broken into each operator.

Dublin Bus

7 - Glasnevin to Dun Laoghaire

E1 - Dun Laoghaire to Northwood

222 - Dun Laoghaire to Bride's Glen

225 - Dun Laoghaire to Dundrum Luas


Go Ahead Ireland

S6/S7 - Blackrock to Tallaght

S8 - Dun Laoghaire to Tallaght

211 - Dun Laoghaire to Kilmacanogue

221 - Dun Laoghaire to Killiney Hill

226 - Blackrock to Kilternan

227 - Blackrock to Ballyogan

229 - Dun Laoghaire to Bride's Glen

Am I getting somewhere with my preferred list of routes & operators after BusConnects is fully implemented?

I doubt any more than 10% of the routes would be allocated to Go-Ahead considering that's what the initial deal was.

Stephen15 wrote: »

I wonder how Go-Aheads system will work when they take over the BE routes. Will drivers be assigned ex BE coaches aswell as ex DB buses will they both urban and regional routes or will drivers only drive coaches and others only driver coaches.

In the interests of flexibility at least it would make sense if the jobs were integrated.