Gang Rape in Kildare

Grayson · 16-06-2018 12:25pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Have you got stats to back that up?, as i was asked numerous times yesterday when i voiced an opinion.

there's just over 600 Muslims in UK prisons serving sentences for rape. There's over 2.6 million Muslims in the UK.

Now if you're disagreeing with me and are suggesting that there's a majority of Muslims committing rapes, that would be 1.3 million. Even a large minority of say 20% would indicate that it's about 400k people committing rape.

Captain Obvious · 16-06-2018 12:26pm

Call Me Jimmy wrote: »

Also comes into it insofar as they don't generally attack muslim girls, non-muslims are explicitly 'easy meat' and fair game. From the perspective of policing, safety, awareness in the affected communities surely this isn't information you just throw away?

They don't target them because they are not Muslim. They target vulnerable people, like most sex offenders do. You also have to consider that victims within small communities are less likely to report crimes of this nature. I'm not sure what measure you would take to prevent this that would differ depending on religion.

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 12:32pm

Grayson wrote: »

And yet they're a tiny minority of the muslim population.

Except they're not, when the majority of British Muslims currently believe homosexuality should be criminilised a debate must be had as to how to drag this ideology from the dark ages should they wish to live in the western world.

Call Me Jimmy · 16-06-2018 12:37pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

They don't target them because they are not Muslim. They target vulnerable people, like most sex offenders do. You also have to consider that victims within small communities are less likely to report crimes of this nature. I'm not sure what measure you would take to prevent this that would differ depending on religion.

I agree with you in general there, except if you happen to be non-muslim your more likely to suffer this kind of grooming (in the area where they operate). I don't know exactly what you do about it but awareness - or at least not supression of known information - is a pretty good start.

o1s1n · 16-06-2018 12:48pm

Grayson wrote: »

there's just over 600 Muslims in UK prisons serving sentences for rape. There's over 2.6 million Muslims in the UK.

Now if you're disagreeing with me and are suggesting that there's a majority of Muslims committing rapes, that would be 1.3 million. Even a large minority of say 20% would indicate that it's about 400k people committing rape.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324097/number-males-rape-muslim.doc

As at 31 March 2014, the latest point in time for which data is available for public use, the male prison population in England and Wales for all offenders serving immediate custodial sentence for rape was 5,682. Of this, there were 676 offenders who self-declared their religion as Muslim (12% of the total).

5.02% of the British Population are Muslims, yet they make up 12% of the prison populace for rape.

I'm not trying to say anything other than after looking at the numbers, 12% does seem quite high for a minority that make up 5.02%.

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 12:57pm

Grayson wrote: »

there's just over 600 Muslims in UK prisons serving sentences for rape. There's over 2.6 million Muslims in the UK.

Now if you're disagreeing with me and are suggesting that there's a majority of Muslims committing rapes, that would be 1.3 million. Even a large minority of say 20% would indicate that it's about 400k people committing rape.

I'm slightly rounding up numbers here but there are currently 5700 dogs in UK prisons convicted of sexual asssult, of this number 700 are Muslim.

I'm not going to break down age or gender but according to the latest census caucasians account for 52 million of the UK populace, again this is just a brief calculation and not a scientific paper, but this would give the likelihood of commiting sexual assault as 1 in 10400 (ie 52,000,000 / 5000)

Now lets look at Muslims who, having a total population of 2'800,000 have an incidence rate of 1 in 4000 (ie 2'800'000 / 700)

Now I believe a debate must be had as to why Muslim men are two and a half times more likely to commit sexual offences than other members of society, because one thing is for certain, this issue will not go away by pretending it exists only in the minds of racists and bigots, and not free thinking people who simply believe everything must be done to protect the vulnerable, even if it means discussing statistics which clearly upset the status quo.

iebamm2580 · 16-06-2018 12:59pm

Grayson wrote: »

iebamm2580 wrote: »

Have you got stats to back that up?, as i was asked numerous times yesterday when i voiced an opinion.

there's just over 600 Muslims in UK prisons serving sentences for rape. There's over 2.6 million Muslims in the UK.

Now if you're disagreeing with me and are suggesting that there's a majority of Muslims committing rapes, that would be 1.3 million. Even a large minority of say 20% would indicate that it's about 400k people committing rape.

You only have stats for the current Muslims serving time for this type of crime, we will never know the true number so as i was told yesterday your point is invalid because you dont have stats see how this argument can work against you too, the one true stat is 12% of muslims in prison from a 3% populace for sex crimes.

o1s1n · 16-06-2018 1:00pm

o1s1n wrote: »

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/324097/number-males-rape-muslim.doc

As at 31 March 2014, the latest point in time for which data is available for public use, the male prison population in England and Wales for all offenders serving immediate custodial sentence for rape was 5,682. Of this, there were 676 offenders who self-declared their religion as Muslim (12% of the total).

5.02% of the British Population are Muslims, yet they make up 12% of the prison populace for rape.

I'm not trying to say anything other than after looking at the numbers, 12% does seem quite high for a minority that make up 5.02%.

Just to break these numbers down further - 1 in every 20 people in the UK identify as Muslim, yet 1 in every 8 rapists in prison identify as Muslim.

redhen94 · 16-06-2018 1:06pm

In India, gang rapes have suddenly hit the front page over the last few years instead of being quietly ignored. Now, condemning rape there is ultra-fashionable. But it still goes on.

Strazdas · 16-06-2018 1:23pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Just to break these numbers down further - 1 in every 20 people in the UK identify as Muslim, yet 1 in every 8 rapists in prison identify as Muslim.

Muslim population of the UK is 2.6 million. 676 men have been been jailed for rape. Therefore, 2.6 million Muslims in Britain have not been convicted of rape and sexual assault, correct?

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 2:16pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Muslim population of the UK is 2.6 million. 676 men have been been jailed for rape. Therefore, 2.6 million Muslims in Britain have not been convicted of rape and sexual assault, correct?

No one has claimed otherwise, just as 51'999,995 members of the white populace do not commit such offences, it certainly doesn't mean women should not be cautious.

Have you an opinion as to why, according to all available data, Muslim men are two and a half times more likely to commit such abhorrent assaults as other sectors of society?

And if you have no answer, do you not believe the topic should be discussed in order to discover one?

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 2:20pm

redhen94 wrote: »

In India, gang rapes have suddenly hit the front page over the last few years instead of being quietly ignored. Now, condemning rape there is ultra-fashionable. But it still goes on.

India's views towards women's rights is steadily improving and long may it continue, this would lead me to believe that Muslims too can be educated as to the importance of giving women complete parity, but it won't happen until the loud minority stop pretending an issue doesn't exist.

Grayson · 16-06-2018 2:22pm

o1s1n wrote: »

Just to break these numbers down further - 1 in every 20 people in the UK identify as Muslim, yet 1 in every 8 rapists in prison identify as Muslim.

1) that's not breaking numbers down. That's restating them.

2) the statistical sample is tiny. 600 out of 2.6 million. When you're talking about an amount that small it's easy to say pose it in such a way.

It's not possible to extrapolate any findings about the rest of the Muslim population based on that. That's just basic statistics that's taught in first year college. You cannot come to a conclusion about the attitudes of 2.6 million people based on the behavior of 600.

To put it this way. Say the population of Ireland is 4.5 million. Based on your math, we could make a judgement about Irish attitudes based on the behavior of about 1000 people.

iebamm2580 · 16-06-2018 2:28pm

Yesterday i was told by a few posters that you can only base an opinion on stats? So now you dont agree with this line of thinking?

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 2:28pm

Grayson wrote: »

1) It's not possible to extrapolate any findings about the rest of the Muslim population based on that. That's just basic statistics that's taught in first year college..

Whatever about first year in college, you're failing basic english.

statistics

stəˈtɪstɪks/

noun

The practice or science of collecting and analysing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

Statistics by their very nature involve the extrapolation of data from a representative group in order to gain better understanding of the greater whole.

iebamm2580 · 16-06-2018 2:31pm

Grayson wrote: »

iebamm2580 wrote: »

You dont need to have EXACT stats to be correct on a particular subject matter either thats all im saying, you seem like one of those people who takes everything literal.

You kind of do.

You make a statement, it may be true it may be false, but we won't know unless it'd backed up with some kind of stat or reference.

As for saying it's common knowledge, I'm sure people could bring up thousands of examples where what was common knowledge was incorrect.

What was this about yesterday Grayson?

Raging_Ninja · 16-06-2018 2:35pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Muslim population of the UK is 2.6 million. 676 men have been been jailed for rape. Therefore, 2.6 million Muslims in Britain have not been convicted of rape and sexual assault, correct?

676 men are in prison today. Those do not show people who have served their sentences and since have been released, and those who are currently awaiting trial.

You have to remember that as Rotherham, Telford and other scandals have shown us, Muslims of Pakistani descent have been allowed to operate child rape gangs for decades with the knowledge of local police, local government and child protection agencies. The real number of rapists is without a doubt many multiples of the numbers official statistics provide.

Grayson · 16-06-2018 2:45pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

Whatever about first year in college, you're failing basic english.

statistics

stəˈtɪstɪks/

noun

The practice or science of collecting and analysing numerical data in large quantities, especially for the purpose of inferring proportions in a whole from those in a representative sample.

Statistics by their very nature involve the extrapolation of data from a representative group in order to gain better understanding of the greater whole.

Yes, that's what stats are. What I'm saying is that you can't extrapolate anything from numbers that small. That's basic statistics.

Let me put it another way. Aeronautics is the study of getting a machine to fly. Stating the definition of aeronautics does not mean you can make a bucket fly.

Let me ask you this, what maths are you using? maths is based on proofs. What is your mathimatical proof? What theorems are you using? What distribution are you using? What type of statistical analysis have you performed?

You could say that there's problems with certain small communities but you could not expand that for the whole population. And even within those small communities you can't make any judgement about the whole population or a majority of them. And you certainly can't point as Islam as the reason. Especially when the vast majority of Muslims in the UK will never commit a sexual offence (Millions Vs Hundreds).

Those situations aren't normal. The stats point to them being abnormal. And so when studying them we should study them as such. A rather more pertinent question to ask than why are these gangs Muslim might be, why aren't all Muslims doing this? What makes these small groups different.

Grayson · 16-06-2018 2:50pm

iebamm2580 wrote: »

What was this about yesterday Grayson?

What about it?

Here;s the thing about maths. Someone stats something, you don't need a whole group of stats to prove them wrong. All you need to do is disprove the maths. If someone says 5+7=2 I don't need to show a load of studies to prove them wrong. I just need to show that 5 + 7 is never equal to 2.

eagle eye · 16-06-2018 2:51pm

There are plenty of Irish rapists and other types of sex fiends.
The gang thing is rare among Irish people though.

iebamm2580 · 16-06-2018 2:55pm

Grayson wrote: »

iebamm2580 wrote: »

What was this about yesterday Grayson?

What about it?

Here;s the thing about maths. Someone stats something, you don't need a whole group of stats to prove them wrong. All you need to do is disprove the maths. If someone says 5+7=2 I don't need to show a load of studies to prove them wrong. I just need to show that 5 + 7 is never equal to 2.

You make a statement, it may be true it may be false, but we won't know unless it'd backed up with some kind of stat or reference.
By that logic you done need a load of stats to be proved correct either. You clearly said yesterday you need stats to back up a point and now you are saying today you dont to suit your agenda. BTW nobody mentioned that a majority of muslims commit this crime. People asked for stats and have got them and now are gone quiet.

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 2:57pm

Grayson wrote: »

And even within those small communities you can't make any judgement about the whole population or a majority of them.

I won't post the link again because those who don't want to read it, won't read it, but 75% of convicted grooming gangs in the UK hail from a small populace of 3%.

Now, whilst you might state the majority of Muslims are not rapists, which I'm obviously not arguing against, I still believe a discussion must be had as to why the majority of sexual abuse gangs and a skewed ratio of sexual abusers of any nature ARE Muslim.

Blaas4life · 16-06-2018 3:02pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I won't post the link again because those who don't want to read it, won't read it, but 75% of convicted grooming gangs in the UK hail from a small populace of 3%.

Now, whilst you might state the majority of Muslims are not rapists, which I'm obviously not arguing against, I still believe a discussion must be had as to why the majority of sexual abuse gangs and a skewed ratio of sexual abusers of any nature ARE Muslim.

This deos need researching as child sex abuse in Pakistan is a death penalty offence...why are they at it in england

Grayson · 16-06-2018 3:08pm

SnakePlissken wrote: »

I won't post the link again because those who don't want to read it, won't read it, but 75% of convicted grooming gangs in the UK hail from a small populace of 3%.

Now, whilst you might state the majority of Muslims are not rapists, which I'm obviously not arguing against, I still believe a discussion must be had as to why the majority of sexual abuse gangs and a skewed ratio of sexual abusers of any nature ARE Muslim.

Are you deliberately misreading my posts? I understand that 75% of them are but the point is that the number of grooming gangs is actually tiny. And the members of those gangs amounts to a tiny percentage of the overall population.

If 8 people die due to banana related incidents and 6 of them are white, I could say that 75% of banana deaths are caused by white people. Obviously white people have a problem with bananas. Yet that would be stupid because I would be basing my conclusion on a self selected sample, the people who have died of banana related incidents, and I'm deliberately ignoring the millions who don't.

When you say that 75% of grooming gangs are muslim, it doesn't mean that we can say anything about all muslims. Because the sample size is tiny and it's a self selected sample. You are basing your findings on the percentage who are in jail for this, not based on the entire population.

And if you expand it to the whole population then the number of muslims who are part of a grooming gang is tiny. It's so small that you can't make a judgement about the larger sample based on the smaller amount of people who have committed an offense.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-06-2018 3:13pm

Grayson wrote: »

...based on the behavior of about 1000 people.

Population and socio-economic stats inc birth/death/crime etc are nearly always based on 'per 1,000 basis' so that's not unusual.
And thus this % stat indicates unusualy behaviour from that community, and but the same token it means well over 50million white folks aren't doing it.

Also bear in mind these type of gangs are usually high repeat offenders. The (22) dogs in Newcastle last year had around '700 victims' ... link

The gang (of 8) in Oxford last week, also had multiple young victims, they even bought a personalised 'SGH' number plate for their van, so busy and proud they were of their actions (between 1998-2005) ... link

So for every dog, multiply that by at least x30 or so victims. And that's just the ones that get caught.

SnakePlissken · 16-06-2018 3:17pm

Blaas4life wrote: »

in Pakistan is a death penalty offence...why are they at it in england

No, it's not, punishment is usually less than five years, disturbingly lenient but then we are speaking of a country where every year 100 children will be literally raped to death... I think I'm done providing sources and statistics to support my opinion and simple hope for meaningful discussion on this topic, the evidence is as obvious as it is abhorrent and quite frankly my stomach churns with every study I read.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.dawn.com/news/amp/1383093

Strazdas · 16-06-2018 3:35pm

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

676 men are in prison today. Those do not show people who have served their sentences and since have been released, and those who are currently awaiting trial.

You have to remember that as Rotherham, Telford and other scandals have shown us, Muslims of Pakistani descent have been allowed to operate child rape gangs for decades with the knowledge of local police, local government and child protection agencies. The real number of rapists is without a doubt many multiples of the numbers official statistics provide.

Lots of talk in this thread of a "rape culture" among Muslims in the UK where 0.05% or something of Muslim men are in jail for a sexual offence or rape. There's nowhere near enough evidence to condemn an entire religion / race on this specific issue or say they should be refused entry to Britain.

4068ac1elhodqr · 16-06-2018 3:48pm

A report suggests 84 per cent, of people convicted of specific grooming-gang crimes in the UK since 2005 were Asian (usually pakistani).
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/quilliam-grooming-gangs-report-asian-abuse-rotherham-rochdale-newcastle-a8101941.html
Gangs such this are far far more dangerous that lone wolfs.

The author (Haras Rafiq {British-Pakistani} from Rochdale), said:
“I’m from the heart of where one of the biggest high-profile cases has happened over the last few years, and I’m saying it’s very important that we do talk about it because the problem won’t go away.

Whether it's a case of attitude, cultural differences, peer pressure or whatever.
It's important to educate, convict and stop it from occuring in western cultures.

Raging_Ninja · 16-06-2018 4:16pm

Strazdas wrote: »

Lots of talk in this thread of a "rape culture" among Muslims in the UK where 0.05% or something of Muslim men are in jail for a sexual offence or rape. There's nowhere near enough evidence to condemn an entire religion / race on this specific issue or say they should be refused entry to Britain.

You mention those who are in jail. But these were and may still be protected by British local government, police forces and child protection agencies. These men were deliberately not being investigated despite substantial evidence that child rapes were being committed. It follows that official statistics cannot be trusted in this matter.

For example, there was the absurd situation where, following reports screams coming from a house, policemen walked in on 3 adult Pakistani men and a partially clothed 13 year-old girl, who had been reported missing by her parents. The girl was arrested the girl for drunk and disorderly conduct, while the men were let go without any of their details being taken.

I suggest giving below video a watch - it's a talk by the Times journalist who brought the Rotherham scandal to mainstream public knowledge. Even if you feel you know in your heart that I am wrong, that the people you are arguing against are the worst forms of racists, please do watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrUiHB5qJJ0

I would also suggest that you re-evaluate the idea that condemning a religion is somehow wrong. It is not. A religion is just an idea, a set of beliefs, and should never be above criticism. The alternative is support of blasphemy laws.

Strazdas · 16-06-2018 4:33pm

Raging_Ninja wrote: »

You mention those who are in jail. But these were and may still be protected by British local government, police forces and child protection agencies. These men were deliberately not being investigated despite substantial evidence that child rapes were being committed. It follows that official statistics cannot be trusted in this matter.

For example, there was the absurd situation where, following reports screams coming from a house, policemen walked in on 3 adult Pakistani men and a partially clothed 13 year-old girl, who had been reported missing by her parents. The girl arrested the girl for drunk and disorderly conduct, while the men were let go without any of their details being taken.

I suggest giving below video a watch - it's a talk by the Times journalist who brought the Rotherham scandal to mainstream public knowledge. Even if you feel you know in your heart that I am wrong, that the people you are arguing against are the worst forms of racists, please do watch it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrUiHB5qJJ0

I would also suggest that you re-evaluate the idea that condemning a religion is somehow wrong. It is not. A religion is just an idea, a set of beliefs, and should never be above criticism. The alternative is support of blasphemy laws.

I'm not denying there isn't a major problem with child grooming Muslim gangs. But it's an extreme leap to go from this to talking about banning all Muslims from entering Britain (and also to be demonising the couple of million Muslims living there who are not carrying out rapes and sexual assaults).

Gang Rape in Kildare

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