Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

devnull · 07-06-2018 06:23PM

dfx- wrote: »

if Ryanair have, everyone will.

Mass exoduses of staff because of working conditions and pay plus their own staff shortages, couldn't possibly happen to GA/NTA..

Well from everything I've seen so far that has been publicly stated by Go-Ahead it appears that there will not be the kind of seniority system that discriminates heavily in Dublin Bus against new starters which is for sure a key driver of attrition among recent entrants in Dublin Bus.

So the prospect of fair rosters and workplace practices, where everyone has to do their fair share of the not so nice shifts, which do not heavily discriminate against new entrants might well be something that is attractive to potential staff as opposed to a system in the CIE companies which is heavily stacked in favour of senior staff and against newcomers who keep leaving as a consequence.

Stephen15 wrote: »

No mention of Garda vetting for drivers either. They will attract good and bad drivers.

There is no Garda vetting listed on a job spec for a job that recently was filled in my department, we still did it though and they had to go through the process. It's not always listed on the job application and sometimes is discussed or mentioned at interview stage instead.

Stephen15 wrote: »

The workers are just looking out for their own benefits ie. they want more money for various different things. At the end of the day who isn't, if your union could get you more money would you say thanks but no thanks. We all have our own interests at heart first no matter how generous you like to think you are.

Public services are supposed to be run for the public and not for the benefit of the staff though at the end of the day. In the private sector if you keep going out on strike, you go out of business. The only reason it happens in Dublin Bus because they have a captive customer base who can't use a competitor.

brokenarms wrote: »

They are training their drivers today in this. Absolute joke of a company. I would ask any who thinks its completely inappropriate, to let the NTA know.

Fancy that, the NTA transferring one of the buses that they funded that is owned by them to carry out contracted duties from one contractor to another. I mean, it's almost like if you own something you have the rights to say what is done with it? Perish the thought.

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 06:27PM

Creative83 wrote: »

Not trying to be funny but 32k is probably what the occupation commands...

"Try live in Dublin on that" Well boohoo, move outside of Dublin or upskill!!

That's a great attitude to have telling skilled professional bus drivers to go and upskill and who's going to drive the bus you take if every bus driver took your attitude.

Creative83 · 07-06-2018 06:30PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

That's a great attitude to have telling skilled professional bus drivers to go and upskill and who's going to drive the bus you take if every bus driver took your attitude.

The people who don't mind driving a bus for 32k perhaps?? And they won't mind doing it at all

devnull · 07-06-2018 06:32PM

Fizzy Duck wrote: »

Its awaiting repaint. Bus is perfectly fine and was recently handed over by db. Once the other bus comes back from repaint that will be used also.

Are they planning to repaint that one when the other one is back?

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 06:33PM

devnull wrote: »

Public services are supposed to be run for the public and not for the benefit of the staff though at the end of the day. In the private sector if you keep going out on strike, you go out of business. The only reason it happens in Dublin Bus because they have a captive customer base who can't use a competitor.

So what if Go-Ahead go on strike. Passengers going from Dundrum to Dun Laoghaire won't be able to use any competitive service as the 75 isin't running and DB services won't be able to get them where they need to go as their services will be useless to them.

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 06:37PM

Creative83 wrote: »

The people who don't mind driving a bus for 32k perhaps?? And they won't mind doing it at all

As the old saying if you pay peanuts you'll get monkeys.

Fizzy Duck · 07-06-2018 07:07PM

devnull wrote: »

Are they planning to repaint that one when the other one is back?

Yes. But other specific buses will be used for driver training also.

dublinbuster · 07-06-2018 08:08PM

Some very interesting reviews on working for Go Ahead
Would appear shifts are WORSE than DB, so there goes the main hope of the DB marked in system haters

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Go-Ahead/reviews?fcountry=ALL

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Go-Ahead-Group-Reviews-E8910.htm

What we know as fact
Wages up to 32k, DB start at 32k .BE/Aircoach pay better wages. Why do same job for less money?
Depot in arse end of nowhere, DB depots easy to get to, except Harristown
How will drivers get to and from Bray/Dun Laoghaire? This is a BIG deal!
Will accept 6 penalty points, will train drivers from scratch = having problems attracting staff
Reviews from Go ahead workers in links posted above, tell shifts just as bad if not worse than DB.
BE hiring right now, DB in August, how many will use GO Ahead to train them up and then go to DB/BE? More money for same job, who would not move?
If dole sent people to Go Ahead, it will be same as DB, eventually DB told dole dont bother sending people to us, they dont want job, turn up only to mess up on purpose.

Yet again wages unto 32k???
So what is starting wage 28k 29k? Why would you do same job for less money, that the question you have to ask yourself.
Finally, as a DB driver i can tell you hand on heart there is no hate for drivers of other companies, when we are parked up together we do talk about job pay and conditions, we all have a good idea of what each company is like to work for.
Go Ahead are going to have a problem when their drivers realise they are doing same job as DB drivers for substantially less money and worse conditions.
Going to be interesting,
My prediction is its going to be difficult for Go Ahead, DB will start advertising for drivers and you can bet money that STARTING at 32k will be prominent in these adverts.
Why would you chose Go Ahead , same job but with worse money and conditions?

end of the road · 07-06-2018 08:10PM

Xterminator wrote: »

You missed my point i am not anti union.

i never said you were.

Xterminator wrote: »

i am against the incumbent semi state organisations

that's fine but the reality is for now at least, they are going nowhere and that is absolutely reasonable. we know from britain for example that the grass isn't greener once state organisations go.

Xterminator wrote: »

where the overly powerful unions can used their power to hold up the training of new recruits,
where they can deliberately involve Bus Eireann/Irish Rail staff in dublin bus strikes to maximise disruption to customers.
where they can demand extra payments to drive longer trains
where they can refuse to implement rosters agreed in the labour court/ arbitration etc

the unions aren't overly powerful. the unions cannot involve staff from other companies in a dispute with a company. demanding extra payments for driving longer trains which is extra responsibility, or being in dispute over rosters, aren't unique to ireland.

Xterminator wrote: »

i don't see a problem if new bus drivers are paid the going rate.

agreed. however they will be paid lower then the going rate by the looks of it. unless there are allowences that will bring up the over all wage to near dublin bus and bus eireann levels, who's staff are paid the going rate.

Xterminator wrote: »

my point was the organisations are leaner, have less overheads and are more customer oriented.

being leaner and having less overheads doesn't seem to mean anything for the user and the funder in terms of subsidised routes though. customer service standards will be contracted as part of the tender as it should be.

dublinbuster · 07-06-2018 08:12PM

devnull wrote: »

Well from everything I've seen so far that has been publicly stated by Go-Ahead it appears that there will not be the kind of seniority system that discriminates heavily in Dublin Bus against new starters which is for sure a key driver of attrition among recent entrants in Dublin Bus.

So the prospect of fair rosters and workplace practices, where everyone has to do their fair share of the not so nice shifts, which do not heavily discriminate against new entrants might well be something that is attractive to potential staff as opposed to a system in the CIE companies which is heavily stacked in favour of senior staff and against newcomers who keep leaving as a consequence.

Read the reviews , the shifts look to be every bit as bad as DB, so why would anyone do the same job for substantially less money?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Go-Ahea...s?fcountry=ALL

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/...iews-E8910.htm

ted1 · 07-06-2018 08:16PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Creative83 wrote: »

Not trying to be funny but 32k is probably what the occupation commands...

"Try live in Dublin on that" Well boohoo, move outside of Dublin or upskill!!

That's a great attitude to have telling skilled professional bus drivers to go and upskill and who's going to drive the bus you take if every bus driver took your attitude.

Hang on I think your misusing the term “skilled professional “

end of the road · 07-06-2018 08:18PM

Creative83 wrote: »

Not trying to be funny but 32k is probably what the occupation commands...

it's not otherwise that is what would be paid by all bus companies. it's not what is paid by all bus companies, hence it's not what it commands.

Creative83 wrote: »

"Try live in Dublin on that" Well boohoo, move outside of Dublin or upskill!!

nope wrong not boo hoo, not move outside of dublin or upskill as it's not financially viable in many cases and we need those people driving the bus.

Creative83 wrote: »

The people who don't mind driving a bus for 32k perhaps?? And they won't mind doing it at all

until they want more money, which they will. and they will get it because there are other companies who will attract staff quicker.

end of the road · 07-06-2018 08:23PM

ted1 wrote: »

Hang on I think your misusing the term “skilled professional “

he isn't no

dublinman1990 · 07-06-2018 08:24PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

So what if Go-Ahead go on strike. Passengers going from Dundrum to Dun Laoghaire won't be able to use any competitive service as the 75 isin't running and DB services won't be able to get them where they need to go as their services will be useless to them.

If that happens with Go Ahead somewhere in the future; the same bad news will be in place for passengers using the 17 as they would not be to travel between Blackrock & Dundrum. If you were travelling from Blackrock to Dundrum by strictly using a Bus/LUAS connection; the 114 would not be running a service either if there was a strike in place from GA. I would not like that prospect if that issue happens for people who want to make genuine journeys from one place to the other.

Now let's say you flip that statement over if all of Dublin Bus were on 'strike' & Go Ahead would run their services as normal. In whatever way you picture it; a Dublin Bus strike in the future could be defined as utter chaos for GA and for those living in most parts of Dublin even if Go Ahead were running normal operations. Your post about the 75 being impacted if Go Ahead went on strike would be negated if Dublin Bus were on strike.

Could you imagine the hoards of people trying to use the 75 if there was no 46A service running from Dun Laoghaire DART Station at all due to a Dublin Bus 'strike'? The 75 would only be able transport passengers up as far as Stillorgan. That issue arises if GA don't change the route if it was previously run with Dublin Bus. The 63 could also provide an adequate back up for passengers if they were travelling between Dun Laoghaire & Kill O The Grange. Especially at a period when bus passengers now & in the near future are at an all time high. You have to remember that the numbers of passengers using the bus using Dun Laoghaire & Stillorgan is at a constant every day. If passengers had no choice to use the 46A; they would have no choice but to use the bus service with GA while only using their routes & timetables.

I could describe a situation when Dublin Bus are on 'strike' & Go Ahead run normal service for people living in White's Cross & the Leopardstown Road junction just right on the N11 bypass at Newtownpark Avenue. People living there with no cars or taxi's available to them could decide with making a public transport journey along the N11 either to Dun Laoghaire, Bray or to the City Centre. They would probably have no other choice but to go on a 75 or 114 with Go Ahead & a possible DART journey if no other bus service is adequate for intending passengers. This issue would probably arise with people if it was due to over crowding or not wanting to pay expensive fares while using services from Finnegans, Bus Eireann or Wexford Bus.

The only advantage for passengers in the case of GA is that the fares will be the same as Dublin Bus. They will be notably cheaper for use on GA rather than paying for the private operators and Bus Eireann fares. The fleet allocation would vary with each operator running along the N11 corridor. The frequency will vary in the same fashion. If you were a frequent Dublin Bus passenger using the 46A & 145 on that corridor; you would notice that the bus service will be very strong with buses coming every couple of minutes at best which is brilliant. The rate of passengers either heading on or off these routes will be at a constant every few minutes. If passengers had these options denied to them with a Dublin Bus 'strike'; they have to use the 75 or the 114 to take most of their intended journeys if it was necessary.

The fleet in GA will be severely limited regarding the bus allocation for their routes. There will only be double axle double deckers or double axle single deckers with GA. There will no option of using tri axle buses at all with GA if Dublin Bus go on 'strike' in the future. On the 75 for example; because of the length of the route between Dun Laoghaire & Tallaght; you will be guaranteed to get a double decker on the route. But on the 114; this situation could be more confusing as we still have no confirmed information from GA that it could be using either a single or double decker when it reportedly start's it's service some time next year.

If people lived along the upper end of Leopardstown Road near the Racecourse or Sandyford & wanted to make a journey to town. If Dublin Bus were on 'strike' the only option for them will be using the Luas. But is that option not currently subject to overcrowding during peak times as the Green Line is linked up with BXD to Broombridge? If the 114 was with Go Ahead for instance; would more people try to use that bus to get a DART into town instead if the Luas was running no services at all due to a fault or accident on the Green Line & Dublin Bus were still on 'strike'?

devnull · 07-06-2018 08:29PM

dublinbuster wrote: »

Read the reviews , the shifts look to be every bit as bad as DB, so why would anyone do the same job for substantially less money?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Go-Ahea...s?fcountry=ALL

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/...iews-E8910.htm

What I have read from Go-Ahead Ireland suggests they may have a different system when it comes to rosters and shifts which would be much better for new and recent hires than the Dublin Bus one which appears to put the senior drivers up on a pedestal and giving them everything whilst giving the junior guys nothing for years on end which is causing them to leave the company.

Not having a predictable roster and shifts is one of the things that some new drivers to Dublin Bus have said on these forums as being one of the reasons that they are unhappy in their jobs and have left so if Go-Ahead don't have such a seniority system that would be attractive to many no doubt.

Personally I'm not reading too much into what happens in the UK, as I've worked in a few companies that have different systems and policies in one country to another, because of local market conditions, laws, regulatory regimes amongst other things.

devnull · 07-06-2018 08:31PM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Now these possible scenarios that I'm making in this post are all works of fiction. But these scenarios could become real if some unfortunate event happens unexpectedly at the last minute before transport companies begin work for the day in this leafy part of Dublin's southside.

Better to have 23 outer suburban routes and orbital routes running than nothing running at all.

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 09:53PM

dublinbuster wrote:

What we know as fact
Wages up to 32k, DB start at 32k .BE/Aircoach pay better wages. Why do same job for less money?
Depot in arse end of nowhere, DB depots easy to get to, except Harristown
How will drivers get to and from Bray/Dun Laoghaire? This is a BIG deal!
Will accept 6 penalty points, will train drivers from scratch = having problems attracting staff
Reviews from Go ahead workers in links posted above, tell shifts just as bad if not worse than DB.
BE hiring right now, DB in August, how many will use GO Ahead to train them up and then go to DB/BE? More money for same job, who would not move?
If dole sent people to Go Ahead, it will be same as DB, eventually DB told dole dont bother sending people to us, they dont want job, turn up only to mess up on purpose.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the GA depot is in the arse end of nowhere. It's on the M50 so it wouldn't be too hard for drivers to get to and from by car obviously more difficult to get by bus or bike compared to DB depots. A lot of the DB depots are in traffic blackspots such as Phibsboro, Conyham Road and Ringsend.

There were plans for a outstation for GA in the old ferry terminal in DL with parking for 20 buses which would serve all DL routes aswell as Bray and Blackrock routes. However I believe this plan was refused. Hopefully they will have outstations on the Southside and the Northside.

GM228 · 07-06-2018 10:13PM

Contrails wrote: »

Doesn't really matter whether they do or don't. Employees have a right to unionize and should they decide to take action in great enough numbers, they'll be fairly quick to get "recognised".

A right to unionize and a right of recognition are two different things.

dfx- wrote: »

if Ryanair have, everyone will.

That still gives no guarantees, just because Ryanair bowed (admittedly it was a surprise) does not mean any other employer would, private sector union membership is fairly low compared to public sector, it is roughly at 38% of the private workforce.

brokenarms wrote: »

They are training their drivers today in this. Absolute joke of a company. I would ask any who thinks its completely inappropriate, to let the NTA know.

Nothing inappropriate with that, although there IS one legal issue, has anyone spotted it yet?

brokenarms wrote: »

It looks like a wreck that DB would never put into service , even for learning.

Inside it's probably actually better than what's out and about in service, as long as it is roadworthy that is all that matters.

brokenarms wrote: »

I was under the impression that it was a legal requirement for a bus to have its owners name and address on the side, as well as weight and other info, like master cut off and emergency exit.

Once there's a manufacturers plate somewhere on the bus it is legal, the issue isn't missing names or weights etc, it's the lack of something else which I'm surprised has not been mentioned and IS illegal.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Go-Ahead should have bought up a few older second-hand buses to train up drivers on rather than use newish NTA owned GTs. Most operators including DB use old buses that are no longer fit for passenger service for driver training. Also are learner buses not fitted with dual control for the instructor?

Should they, have DB, BE etc ever bought new training buses, no, they use old buses which they already owned, no they don't have dual controls.

dublinbuster wrote: »

Some very interesting reviews on working for Go Ahead
Would appear shifts are WORSE than DB, so there goes the main hope of the DB marked in system haters

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Go-Ahead/reviews?fcountry=ALL

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Go-Ahead-Group-Reviews-E8910.htm

dublinbuster wrote: »

Read the reviews , the shifts look to be every bit as bad as DB, so why would anyone do the same job for substantially less money?

https://www.indeed.co.uk/cmp/Go-Ahea...s?fcountry=ALL

https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/...iews-E8910.htm

I really don't see what GA in the UK has to do with GAI? Different management structure, different work practices, different this, that and the other. Don't forget GA in the UK took over most (if not all) operations they are involved in (in which case TUPE probably applied) where practices/conditions/management etc would be legacy issues, same manager, just a new company name, not much changes in these situations. They are not comparable.

devnull · 07-06-2018 10:22PM

GM228 wrote: »

Once there's a manufacturers plate somewhere on the bus it is legal, the issue isn't missing names or weights etc, it's the lack of something else which I'm surprised has not been mentioned and IS illegal.

Should they, have DB, BE etc ever bought new training buses, no, they use old buses which they already owned, no they don't have dual controls.

Registration plate which is not a trade plate, which is not in the relevant area and falls foul of legislation because it can be argued glare makes it not distinguishable enough?

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 10:37PM

ted1 wrote: »

Hang on I think your misusing the term “skilled professional “

And you've driven a bus

markodaly · 07-06-2018 11:27PM

Kopparberg Strawberry and Lime wrote: »

The social have already sent hundreds of claimants to Dublin bus since 2014 and more recently bus Eireann and speaking from experience this is exactly what already happened

So, not one person from the social welfare office got a job out of it, is that what you are telling me? You have proof of this?

This is actually a lose/lose position for people on the left, as it demonstrates that
a) Social welfare is too high and generous when people turn down jobs that pay €32,000
b) Shows that there is a large underclass who never have any intention of working

Yet, politically the lads in the NRBU/SIPTU would be on the left wing side of things. How do you square that one?

Contrails · 07-06-2018 11:30PM

GM228 wrote: »

A right to unionize and a right of recognition are two different things.

I didn't say anyone had a right to be recognised. I suggested drivers probably would be recognised should a large scale strike occur, regardless of the official company position. i.e. they might have little or no choice.

markodaly · 07-06-2018 11:32PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

That's a great attitude to have telling skilled professional bus drivers to go and upskill and who's going to drive the bus you take if every bus driver took your attitude.

That skilled professional is looking at about 10 years left in their profession as it is, maybe 15 but the self-driving technology is a big locomotive that is rolling down that mountain very fast.

People entering the profession now in their 20's are never going to be there in their 60's come retirement age. They will get 20 years out of it, if they are very lucky.

07-06-2018 11:41PM

Stephen15 wrote: »

dublinbuster wrote:

What we know as fact
Wages up to 32k, DB start at 32k .BE/Aircoach pay better wages. Why do same job for less money?
Depot in arse end of nowhere, DB depots easy to get to, except Harristown
How will drivers get to and from Bray/Dun Laoghaire? This is a BIG deal!
Will accept 6 penalty points, will train drivers from scratch = having problems attracting staff
Reviews from Go ahead workers in links posted above, tell shifts just as bad if not worse than DB.
BE hiring right now, DB in August, how many will use GO Ahead to train them up and then go to DB/BE? More money for same job, who would not move?
If dole sent people to Go Ahead, it will be same as DB, eventually DB told dole dont bother sending people to us, they dont want job, turn up only to mess up on purpose.

I wouldn't go as far as to say that the GA depot is in the arse end of nowhere. It's on the M50 so it wouldn't be too hard for drivers to get to and from by car obviously more difficult to get by bus or bike compared to DB depots. A lot of the DB depots are in traffic blackspots such as Phibsboro, Conyham Road and Ringsend.

There were plans for a outstation for GA in the old ferry terminal in DL with parking for 20 buses which would serve all DL routes aswell as Bray and Blackrock routes. However I believe this plan was refused. Hopefully they will have outstations on the Southside and the Northside.

Good ahead will have main depot in ballymount where drivers based there will start/break/finish their duties. They will have an on site gym and canteen in a brand new purpose built depot. Free parking and easy access for anyone living on southside, north wicklow and kildare even. There will be a sub depot northside in swords and South side in dunlaoire. Drivers will work a roster with a mix of 6 routes on it marked in from the day they start with holidays rostered off as per db and be system. Where is the great conditions created by dublin bus for employees? New driver spare for years working every weekend etc. Bus eireann have a fair system where you get marked in very quickly. Aircoach give you a weekly roster every Thursday when new with a fair mix of early/late duties. I don't see the attraction of dublin bus for new drivers to be honest I'd rather have a few quid less and have a fair work roster

Stephen15 · 07-06-2018 11:43PM

markodaly wrote: »

That skilled professional is looking at about 10 years left in their profession as it is, maybe 15 but the self-driving technology is a big locomotive that is rolling down that mountain very fast.

People entering the profession now in their 20's are never going to be there in their 60's come retirement age. They will get 20 years out of it, if they are very lucky.

Usual nonsense about self driving buses on their way when as a matter of fact they will not coming anytime soon. Look at the Olli a self driving bus that goes at walking pace and is tiny. Their not coming any time soon and even if they did come drivers would be getting huge redundancies anyway so drivers won't be suffering.

The NTA has no plans to start buying self driving buses so I think the timeframe of 10 years they don't even have electric buses yet so I doubt will be seeing a driverless bus anytime soon. Anyway buses will likely be last vehicles to become self driving due to the responsibility of the job as a driver will still likely be needed to take over in case of an accident and to watch out for cyclists etc.

Stephen15 · 08-06-2018 12:01AM

soundman45 wrote: »

Good ahead will have main depot in ballymount where drivers based there will start/break/finish their duties. They will have an on site gym and canteen in a brand new purpose built depot. Free parking and easy access for anyone living on southside, north wicklow and kildare even. There will be a sub depot northside in swords and South side in dunlaoire. Drivers will work a roster with a mix of 6 routes on it marked in from the day they start with holidays rostered off as per db and be system. Where is the great conditions created by dublin bus for employees? New driver spare for years working every weekend etc. Bus eireann have a fair system where you get marked in very quickly. Aircoach give you a weekly roster every Thursday when new with a fair mix of early/late duties. I don't see the attraction of dublin bus for new drivers to be honest I'd rather have a few quid less and have a fair work roster

Most DB spares are on a 4 day with shift work which tbh doesn't sound that awful. It's well and good to say I'd rather have less money for better working conditions but that logic only really applies when your single but when you a family to support it's a whole different ball game. No point on being able to use a free gym when you have to go home to mind your children when you can do the same for more money without benefits in kind which are useless to you.

No point on going all the way back to the depot to take your when you'd spend most of your break travelling back there why would a driver waste their break travelling all the way from DL or Bray to Ballymount likely sitting in traffic for most of it when they can take it DL or Bray. With legal breaks for professional drivers that would believe it or not likely create less efficient working practices than DB, the thought of it.

There is no evidence at present that GA will have better rosters than DB.

brokenarms · 08-06-2018 02:35AM

Stephen15 wrote: »

Most DB spares are on a 4 day with shift work which tbh doesn't sound that awful. It's well and good to say I'd rather have less money for better working conditions but that logic only really applies when your single but when you a family to support it's a whole different ball game. No point on being able to use a free gym when you have to go home to mind your children when you can do the same for more money without benefits in kind which are useless to you.

No point on going all the way back to the depot to take your when you'd spend most of your break travelling back there why would a driver waste their break travelling all the way from DL or Bray to Ballymount likely sitting in traffic for most of it when they can take it DL or Bray. With legal breaks for professional drivers that would believe it or not likely create less efficient working practices than DB, the thought of it.

There is no evidence at present that GA will have better rosters than DB.

The 4 day roaster is by far the best for a spare man. Suits family men that does not live to go out to the pub every Saturday. Its basically like being marked in. You know what time you are going to start and finish each day.
This back fired on the unions I think as they insisting spare 4 day men dont get reliefs or early duties. A four day man will (should) never get a bogey shift either.

The problem they created is that the spare lads who go onto the 5 day, 10 week roaster will get hammered with the worst duties. Arrive at work at 9 and leave a 9 sort of thing. Why? Because the unions insisted the 4 day lads get nothing but lates. So they get priority. Some garages have spare man rotas that make it a bit better, but its nothing to write home about.

The problem I see for staff retention, is the spare 5 day man is treated like dirt. Doing literally 1/4 more work than the marked in lad. Which is highly demoralising. Picking up of a marked in driver who has a week of 5 hour shifts and you go on to do a 8.5 hour day with a 2 hour break in between. you can be at work 12 hours and get paid less than the senior man doing the same job , working half the hours. Its a joke shop that way. Protected by the unions. Takes at least 11 years to go onto the junior marked in system. (which is still pants TBH) The marking in system is crap IMO. And I would feel the same even if I was marked in, as its highly unfair to guys who are in the first decade of work.

If Go ahead can avoid this, they will make DB look like dinosaurs.

NinetyTwoTeam · 08-06-2018 02:38AM

Go Ahead...

...I was hoping for something to make my day.

Tickityboo · 08-06-2018 11:15AM

brokenarms wrote: »

The 4 day roaster is by far the best for a spare man. Suits family men that does not live to go out to the pub every Saturday. Its basically like being marked in. You know what time you are going to start and finish each day.
This back fired on the unions I think as they insisting spare 4 day men dont get reliefs or early duties. A four day man will (should) never get a bogey shift either.

The problem they created is that the spare lads who go onto the 5 day, 10 week roaster will get hammered with the worst duties. Arrive at work at 9 and leave a 9 sort of thing. Why? Because the unions insisted the 4 day lads get nothing but lates. So they get priority. Some garages have spare man rotas that make it a bit better, but its nothing to write home about.

The problem I see for staff retention, is the spare 5 day man is treated like dirt. Doing literally 1/4 more work than the marked in lad. Which is highly demoralising. Picking up of a marked in driver who has a week of 5 hour shifts and you go on to do a 8.5 hour day with a 2 hour break in between. you can be at work 12 hours and get paid less than the senior man doing the same job , working half the hours. Its a joke shop that way. Protected by the unions. Takes at least 11 years to go onto the junior marked in system. (which is still pants TBH) The marking in system is crap IMO. And I would feel the same even if I was marked in, as its highly unfair to guys who are in the first decade of work.

If Go ahead can avoid this, they will make DB look like dinosaurs.

You really talk a load of bollox sometimes!!
What about when the marked in driver has to do four 9 hour duties in a row?
The only thing a spare driver gets treated differently on is bogie duties.

You never seem to mention the days that you are spare with no duty whatsoever!!
And sit around doing **** all for 4 or 5 hours or doing the walk around check
and going home at 9 o'clock in the morning!!
Whereas a marked in driver may have to work from 06.30 to 15.30 for 4 days in a row.
Stop talking bull****.
Everybody has to work good and bad duties.
Spare drivers have it a lot easier these days compared to what it used to be like 15 or 20 years ago.

dfx- · 08-06-2018 02:39PM

A lot of those GTs would be no loss to DB customers if they keep the other fleet types. Very uncomfortable, made with "lightweight materials" so a very shaky and rough ride.

Stephen15 wrote: »

So what if Go-Ahead go on strike. Passengers going from Dundrum to Dun Laoghaire won't be able to use any competitive service as the 75 isin't running and DB services won't be able to get them where they need to go as their services will be useless to them.

GA go on strike? Surely such a paragon of virtue coming to rescue us from the DB highwaymen wouldn't do that...

Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

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