Prostitution: when is it going to be legalised and regulated?

Franz Von Peppercorn · 28-05-2018 12:28am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Here’s a post on the National Woman’s council of Ireland.

http://www.nwci.ie/discover/what_we_do/building_the_womens_movement/supporting_collectives_and_campaigns/turn_off_the_red_light_campaign/

NWCI has been part of the core co-ordinating committee of the Turn Off the Red Light Campaign (TORL) since its establishment in 2009

TORL has been campaigning for Ireland to criminalise the purchase of sex as the most effective way to address prostitution as a form of violence against women and deter the trafficking of women and girls for sexual exploitation

here are the members of the NWCI - largely or totally feminist.

https://www.nwci.ie/index.php/join/list_members/

Anyway that’s why this new law won’t be reversed.

hatrickpatrick · 28-05-2018 12:30am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Here’s a post on the National Woman’s council of Ireland.

http://www.nwci.ie/discover/what_we_do/building_the_womens_movement/supporting_collectives_and_campaigns/turn_off_the_red_light_campaign/

NWCI has been part of the core co-ordinating committee of the Turn Off the Red Light Campaign (TORL) since its establishment in 2009

here are the members of the NWCI - largely or totally feminist.

https://www.nwci.ie/index.php/join/list_members/

Anyway that’s why this new law won’t be reversed.

It will be. Organisations like this have undue clout in Irish politics now, just as banks and developers did in the 2000s and the Catholic Church did for much of the 20th century. The influence of different lobby groups comes and goes with time.

jimmycrackcorm · 28-05-2018 12:49am

It's an ideal time to start a campaign of #mybody #mychoice seeing as the are loads of posters readily available

anewme · 28-05-2018 1:04am

No, it should be illegal and both client and prostitute guilty of an offence (old law)

Discodog wrote: »

The 8th may be repealed but all the organisations that fought to keep it haven't gone away. The only viewpoint we hear, regarding prostitution, is from Ruhama.

Street prostitution is incredibly dangerous & most only do it to feed their drug habit. Most private escorts are experienced in protection & security. Far more so than a girl who meets a guy on a date & then goes to his place.

Legalising it will greatly reduce street prostitution & increase security.

Maybe if you quote the "banned poster" I might know which posts you are referring to.

It was this post I was concerned about.

Here it is. Horrible person. Hate to think people llike this walk amongst us.

The Fact that someone liked this post is also concerning ,even though it is only one person, it us one too many. It is not healthy and these attitudes should not be encouraged in any way.

Rjd2 · 28-05-2018 1:23am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

anewme wrote: »

It was this post I was concerned about.

Here it is. Horrible person. Hate to think people llike this walk amongst us.

The Fact that someone liked this post is also concerning ,even though it is only one person, it us one too many. It is not healthy and these attitudes should not be encouraged in any way.

To be fair I doubt many sex workers would want anyone like that near them anyhow. I assume the above are just some "edge lords" trolling.

Regarding law changes? I'd like a more liberal and sensible approach to it, but the fact is there is no political currency for our centerist parties in changing current laws. Maybe in a few years, but if you are a sex worker and expecting Leo and FF to make your job easier......:(

anewme · 28-05-2018 1:31am

No, it should be illegal and both client and prostitute guilty of an offence (old law)

Rjd2 wrote: »

To be fair I doubt many sex workers would want anyone like that near them anyhow. To be fair I assume the above are just some "edge lords" trolling.

Regarding law changes? I'd like a more liberal and sensible approach to it, but the fact is there is no political currency for our centerist parties in changing current laws. Maybe in a few years, but if you are a sex worker and expecting Leo and FF to make your job easier......:(

You'd have to avoid like the plague allright.

Does the last line not bother you, given what has happened here in the last couple of weeks.?

Two attitudes like this is two too many.

Re politics, it's a dead duck. Political suicide - wint happen in this lifetime.

Rjd2 · 28-05-2018 2:00am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

anewme wrote: »

You'd have to avoid like the plague allright.

Does the last line not bother you, given what has happened here in the last couple of weeks.?

Two attitudes like this is two too many.

Re politics, it's a dead duck. Political suicide - wint happen in this lifetime.

I disagree with the current law, but its not changing anytime soon. Its not something I am happy with, but I think we will have to wait 5-10 years for something more liberal regarding this area of work.

The last line of the post? Its pretty bleak, but not a lot you can do really, and just hope its someone merely trying to get a rise. There is people who do have those attitudes towards women, prostitution no matter the law isn't going to lessen what they feel is there entitlement to the other sex.

professore · 28-05-2018 7:47am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

anewme wrote: »

I asked a question.

I'd like to know what people think about the personal safety aspect of it.

Unless you think the attitudes shown by the banned poster and those who agree with him are healthy and normal.

Maybe you might answer instead of bringing in 8th amendment agsin. 8th is repealed. Move along.

Turning harmless men into criminals who just want to get laid who might actually help a girl who told them she was trafficked in with these dangerous men as you call them isn't helping one bit.

professore · 28-05-2018 7:58am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

It's baffling to me. Women sell sex all the time. A girl walking into a job interview or going for a driving test wearing an extra short skirt or low cut top is selling sex psychologically. And she knows it. And I've heard women openly say this.

I really don't understand the fuss about it. The anti prostitution groups have no problem buying clothes that were very likely made with child labour yet they trot out the line about all women in it being coerced into it when this is plainly not the case. Look at Stormy Daniels.

By making it illegal you are HELPING the traffickers. The only conclusion I can come to is a hatred of men. That's it. That's the only reason makes any sense. Or Iona Institute style intolerance.

professore · 28-05-2018 8:02am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Rjd2 wrote: »

I disagree with the current law, but its not changing anytime soon. Its not something I am happy with, but I think we will have to wait 5-10 years for something more liberal regarding this area of work.

The last line of the post? Its pretty bleak, but not a lot you can do really, and just hope its someone merely trying to get a rise. There is people who do have those attitudes towards women, prostitution no matter the law isn't going to lessen what they feel is there entitlement to the other sex.

These type of men will always exist. Do you think prostitutes knowing they are involved in an illegal activity will make it more or less likely they will report these men to the Gardaí?

professore · 28-05-2018 8:07am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

I would definitely have visited a prostitute when I was younger. It would have done so much to get rid of all sorts of sexual hangups I had back then due to a strict Catholic upbringing. It wouldn't have worked with previous girlfriends I had as they were just as screwed up sexually as I was. It would have made me a better man.

It ended up being my now wife that had to work through them. It's far healthier than porn. Now these feminists want to take the place of the Catholic Church in the shame department, but ONLY FOR MEN.They can fcuk right off.

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 8:20am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

jcorr wrote: »

There's realistic sex dolls you can buy now. Must safer than a visit to a sex worker

I my friend wants to buy one that looks just like Mia from humans, where might I he find such a thing?

Hookers (or sex robots!) just aren't for me, but I can't understand how it can be illegal to sell something that's perfectly legal to give away for free?
You can (more or less) have sex with whoever you choose. How does the involvement of cash make any difference?

The ruhama mantra of exploitation just doesn't hold water - there are already laws against extortion, trafficking, slavery, rape, paedophilia and all that bollox they spout.
There is absolutely no sense to a law which forbids the buying and selling of sex unless you come at it from a "sex is something special" perspective. I don't feel sex is a magical joining of souls - it's just a physically enjoyable act, basically no different from dancing, or playing football.

People charge money to do both of those things and no one bats an eyelid!

anewme · 28-05-2018 8:26am

No, it should be illegal and both client and prostitute guilty of an offence (old law)

professore wrote: »

I Now these feminists want to take the place of the Catholic Church in the shame department, but ONLY FOR MEN.They can fcuk right off.

Im not really sure what you mean here in relation to this topic.

I havent seen any campaigns by anyone (men, women, or the Church) on this topic.

Was part of the conversation not that no one is going to push this Agenda and therefore the legislation will remain as it is?

If you want change really you need to lobby through those in power and vote accordingly.

El_Duderino 09 · 28-05-2018 8:26am

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

Looking at the poll above where the vast majority are in favour of legalising and regulating prostitution. I can’t figure out if you’re being ironic or are speaking to the tiny minority who favour keeping prostitution illegal.

Vladimir Poontang · 28-05-2018 8:29am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

nullzero wrote: »

Because regulation of prostitution is the biggest issue facing the average Irish person who can't afford to have roof over their head.

Move in with a prostitute, they are never short of a bed.

Graces7 · 28-05-2018 8:45am

Is this referencing sexual prostitution or the political varieties the country is infested with?

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 9:26am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

There much the same anyway -the cutest hoors make the most money in both fields:D

professore · 28-05-2018 11:07am

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

anewme wrote: »

Im not really sure what you mean here in relation to this topic.

I havent seen any campaigns by anyone (men, women, or the Church) on this topic.

Was part of the conversation not that no one is going to push this Agenda and therefore the legislation will remain as it is?

If you want change really you need to lobby through those in power and vote accordingly.

The opposite agenda was pushed by Katherine Zappone a few years ago and had the law changed to criminalise the buying but not the selling of sex. Since predominantly men buy sex and predominantly women sell it, it was clearly aimed at stigmatising men.

Please note I agree wholeheartedly with everything they are saying about trafficking being bad ... but making it illegal is helping the traffickers. Making it regulated will encourage standards and safety for women. All they have done is driven it underground. It;s exactly the same as saying the 8th prevented abortion in Ireland - it works! Let's keep it!

And as with abortion, prostitution is also a reality that is with us. If women only ever had sex for procreation there would be no need for abortion either. But that's not the world we live in.

No shame at all involved in marrying a man for his money though. That's perfectly fine and not the same thing at all ...

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2011-10-12/7/?highlight%5B0%5D=instruments&highlight%5B1%5D=legal&highlight%5B2%5D=legal&highlight%5B3%5D=measures&highlight%5B4%5D=measures&highlight%5B5%5D=measures

artvanderlay · 28-05-2018 1:53pm

If you have to pay for it, you should be seeking the services of a good therapist, and try to figure out why you view women as a commodity. Maybe work on yourself, and you'll get a woman to have sex with you for free! Seriously, has it ever been easier to get no strings attached sex?

I think I would cry with shame afterwards if I had sex with a prostitute, I would feel so bad. What led this woman to this place in life? I've never heard a young girl say mummy when I grow up I want to be a hooker.

Any man who pays for sex with a woman is not a real man. Think if that was your own daughter or loved one.

It should probably be legalised and regulated to protect the women, but reducing demand should be the main objective then.

suicide_circus · 28-05-2018 1:58pm

Everyone's body and or mind is a commodity, It's called work.

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 2:21pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

artvanderlay wrote: »

If you have to pay for it, you should be seeking the services of a good therapist, and try to figure out why you view women as a commodity. Maybe work on yourself, and you'll get a woman to have sex with you for free! Seriously, has it ever been easier to get no strings attached sex? ..

Just doesn't make sense - hiring anyone to do anything is treating them as a commodity? I'm only in work right now because they're paying me - if they weren't I'd go home.

artvanderlay wrote: »

I think I would cry with shame afterwards if I had sex with a prostitute, I would feel so bad. What led this woman to this place in life? I've never heard a young girl say mummy when I grow up I want to be a hooker..

Have you ever heard one say they want to grow up to be a cleaner, or to work in a sandwich factory?

artvanderlay wrote: »

Any man who pays for sex with a woman is not a real man. Think if that was your own daughter or loved one...

No one wants their daughter to be a hooker, or a porn star, or a stripper or work in the sex trade in any way - but all those girls are someone's daughter nonetheless. I'm sure some of them hate it and some of them love it, and most of them neither hate nor love it, but just tolerate it for the money. Same as any other job really.
I didn't grow up dreaming of sending shít to building sites, yet here I am, sending shít to building sites day in, day out.

artvanderlay wrote: »

It should probably be legalised and regulated to protect the women, but reducing demand should be the main objective then.

Good luck with that - how exactly do you propose reducing the demand for sex?

artvanderlay · 28-05-2018 2:29pm

suicide_circus wrote: »

Everyone's body and or mind is a commodity, It's called work.

Yeah, but I think there's a difference between doing a mundane job for pay, and getting f*cked in an orifice by some sleazebag. But again, I think it comes down to respect for women, and you either got it or you don't!

artvanderlay · 28-05-2018 2:32pm

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Just doesn't make sense - hiring anyone to do anything is treating them as a commodity? I'm only in work right now because they're paying me - if they weren't I'd go home.

Have you ever heard one say they want to grow up to be a cleaner, or to work in a sandwich factory?

No one wants their daughter to be a hooker, or a porn star, or a stripper or work in the sex trade in any way - but all those girls are someone's daughter nonetheless. I'm sure some of them hate it and some of them love it, and most of them neither hate nor love it, but just tolerate it for the money. Same as any other job really.
I didn't grow up dreaming of sending shít to building sites, yet here I am, sending shít to building sites day in, day out.

Good luck with that - how exactly do you propose reducing the demand for sex?

Same ****e as the poster above. Good luck with the women in your life with those attitudes lads. And maybe look for a better job if you don't like the one your in. Male prostitution perhaps? It could be lucrative, and clearly you don't think prostitution is bad. Let us know how it goes!

I would reduce demand by, as a society, trying to increase respect for women and also increase self-respect amongst men. Easier said than done admittedly. But I don't get this male entitlement to sex. Get out there and earn it if you want it. Improve yourself if you can't get it. Or have a **** and chill out. Women like sex too, there's someone there that will get it on with you, save your money. As George in Seinfeld said about prostitution, he can't pay for something he can get for free if he applies himself!

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 2:44pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

artvanderlay wrote: »

Same ****e as the poster above. Good luck with the women in your life with those attitudes lads. And maybe look for a better job if you don't like the one your in. Male prostitution perhaps? It could be lucrative, and clearly you don't think prostitution is bad. Let us know how it goes!

You're a bit touchy there art - are you not getting any or something?

You're obviously coming at it from the point of view that sex is somehow a "special" act, not just for physical enjoyment. Which if that's your point of view is absolutely fine - it's just not one I share.

For the record - I personally wouldn't be in any way interested in paying a prostitute for sex, not my cup of tea whatsoever.
But I can't see what would be "wrong" in doing that, should that be what you wanted to do. Once both parties are willing, where's the harm?

jaxxx · 28-05-2018 4:22pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

artvanderlay wrote: »

If you have to pay for it, you should be seeking the services of a good therapist, and try to figure out why you view women as a commodity. Maybe work on yourself, and you'll get a woman to have sex with you for free! Seriously, has it ever been easier to get no strings attached sex?

I think I would cry with shame afterwards if I had sex with a prostitute, I would feel so bad. What led this woman to this place in life? I've never heard a young girl say mummy when I grow up I want to be a hooker.

Any man who pays for sex with a woman is not a real man. Think if that was your own daughter or loved one.

It should probably be legalised and regulated to protect the women, but reducing demand should be the main objective then.

Oh shag off back to the dark ages. It's got sweet f-all to do with 'viewing women as a commodity'. NEWSFLASH, as difficult as it may be for you to comprehend, some sex workers actually enjoy what they do (let's assume for this case that there are in fact those that actually CHOOSE to do this, as INSANE AND UNBELIEVEABLE as that sounds). "Not a real man". As far as I can see the only one who needs the services of a therapist is you for having such an archaic frame of mind. FFS, it's this sort of idiotic thinking that made it so easy for Ruhama to get that disgrace of a former justice minster to bring in this law DESPITE the protests from the Sex Workers Alliance Ireland, despite the fact that numerous multinational organsiations all disagreed with the law. The only views who the government didn't a sh1t about were those of the ones who are directly involved in this whole thing, which are the the very views they should have listened to. Get a grip and when you do, try again to join the real world. Seeing protitues does not automatically mean you don't have respect for women. Not all men are sleazebags.

28-05-2018 4:35pm

I don't think the most important question has been asked yet - Will the bishop still accept us at confession if we legalise prostitution?

I'd really like to get clarification on this before submitting my answer. I already annoyed his Holiness enough last week with my vote in the referendum, I fear one more transgression will lead to my ex-communication.

jaxxx · 28-05-2018 4:37pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think the most important question has been asked yet - Will the bishop still accept us at confession if we legalise prostitution?

I'd really like to get clarification on this before submitting my answer. I already annoyed his Holiness enough last week with my vote in the referendum, I fear one more transgression will lead to my ex-communication.

Funny you mention that as I've just read an article online where one bishop said any Catholic who voted yes needs to go to confession...... Seriously can all these bishops just f*ck off already?? "We don't want you anymore! Go home to Rome!!!!!!"

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 4:44pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

artvanderlay wrote: »

I would reduce demand by, as a society, trying to increase respect for women and also increase self-respect amongst men.

You think people use hookers because of a lack of respect for both themselves and women?

You don't think that maybe they are just horny?

It is possible to simultaneously respect women and fancy a ride you know.

jaxxx · 28-05-2018 4:48pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

sbsquarepants wrote: »

You think people use hookers because of a lack of respect for both themselves and women?

You don't think that maybe they are just horny?

It is possible to simultaneously respect women and fancy a ride you know.

HEATHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wait.... no that wasn't loud enough that was far too subtle. Hold on......

HEATHEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

sbsquarepants · 28-05-2018 4:50pm

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

I can live with that:D

Prostitution: when is it going to be legalised and regulated?

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