Prostitution: when is it going to be legalised and regulated?

jaxxx

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I know, it's an outrage that the church sticks by its teachings.

Oh sweet jesus you again. Ah fack it......


HI!!!!!!!!! :pac:

Berserker

jaxxx wrote: »

In their own defence, they are fighting their own extinction so you can't blame them, but I still wouldn't mind being the one to 'put the final nail in the coffin', no pun intended

What makes you think that they are fighting for their existence? 80% of the Irish population identified as Roman Catholic in the last census. It's illegal to lie in a census, so I think that figure is a pretty good marker for the number of people who have a relationship of some nature with the Roman Catholic church. If you disagree with that number, can you provide me with some stats from a reputable source? If the RC church is fighting for it's existence then every other organisation in the country must be dead and buried.

DickSwiveller

No, it should be illegal and both client and prostitute guilty of an offence (old law)

Berserker wrote: »

What makes you think that they are fighting for their existence? 80% of the Irish population identified as Roman Catholic in the last census. It's illegal to lie in a census, so I think that figure is a pretty good marker for the number of people who have a relationship of some nature with the Roman Catholic church. If you disagree with that number, can you provide me with some stats from a reputable source? If the RC church is fighting for it's existence then every other organisation in the country must be dead and buried.

Some people can't differentiate between boards and reality.

professore

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

jaxxx wrote: »

IKR! We've each got our strengths





Another one today, a priest telling people to get married in city hall and not a church if they're not gonna abide by the church's teachings. On one hand he has a point, on the other mich bigger hand this just shows the supreme arrogance and almost autocratic nature of the chirch that more and more people are waking up and realising, i.e. "there is no room for compromise in our teachings, it is our way or the highway".

Surely this is the whole point of a religion - a set of principles to follow, not "sure do what you want, what do we know". And they are right, you can't vote for repeal and still call yourself a practising Catholic. It's up there with murdering someone in their list of no nos. Don't get why people are shocked by this it's not like they make a secret of it. If you don't like it then stop calling yourself a Catholic like I did long ago.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

DickSwiveller wrote: »

I know, it's an outrage that the church sticks by its teachings.

I know. I voted yes but in fact the church has every right to say “here are our rules. Abide by them or leave”. Hard to see the arrogance there.

The arrogance is in an assuming they have no right to an opinion.

Also nothing to do with this thread really. The forces against the legalisation of prostitution are largely feminist.

dr.fuzzenstein

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Is that a fact or an assertion though? You certainly have not substantiated it, so I am going with assertion for now.

Let us see what we can call fact though.

1) Trafficking happens.
2) Making sex work illegal does not give us any distinct tools to combat it. And quite often creates issues that hinder that goal.
3) Making sex work legal and regulated potentially does give us those tools, and removes many of the issues that hinder that goal.

Spot on.
My argument would be, what reasons do people have to keep it illegal?
It mostly stems from some misguided "decency" and "morality", i.e. sex is a dirty thing and prostitution even more so, because my mom, the church or whoever told me so.
So, the same with gay marriage and abortions, if we simply make it illegal, it will go away, problem solved.
In other words, these people can sleep better, because it's illegal.
When the fact gets mentioned that now it is underground and vulnerable girls are being exploited by brutal pimps and criminals and they have just contributed to the overall crime rate, out come the fingers, jam one in each ear and go " LALALALAAAAA!!! I CAN'T HEAAAAR YOU!!!"
And they continue to live in their 1950's, plastic fantastic pink bubble.
I would say that these people don't give a single sh*t about the working girls, they just don't want to be confronted with something that is icky, unpleasant and embarrassing to them.

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I know. I voted yes but in fact the church has every right to say “here are our rules. Abide by them or leave”. Hard to see the arrogance there.

I'm not a fan of the church or of religion itself, but I have no problem whatsoever with this. My problem is with the fúckwits who say they are catholic (or muslim, or pastafarian for that matter) but don't follow any of the rules, believe any of the shtick or do any of the things that in fact make you one.
If you don't want to follow the teachings of the church - leave the fúcking church - don't lobby for them to change their rules.
You don't join a football club and then lobby them to pick the ball up and run - you join a rugby club!

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Can I take heroin?

To quote the great super hans from peep show

"You see the thing about heroin, is it's very moreish":D

dr.fuzzenstein

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Of course one can join a club and petition to change the rules. Why not?
This is how the world evolves and changes.
You don't have to sit quietly at the table with your hands where they can be seen, speaking out and changing things is how this game works.
You don't try, you don't succeed.

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Of course one can join a club and petition to change the rules. Why not?
This is how the world evolves and changes.
You don't have to sit quietly at the table with your hands where they can be seen, speaking out and changing things is how this game works.
You don't try, you don't succeed.

Well, maybe football was a bad analogy, as it is a game devised by man and the rules change all the time. Your honour, may I enter into evidence the idiotic "interfering with play" rule. :mad:

But if you believe the rules to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it, it's a bit rich for a lowly mortal to question them, do you not think?

And if you don't believe them to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it - then don't call yourself a catholic / muslim / whatever.

ohnonotgmail

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well, maybe football was a bad analogy, as it is a game devised by man and the rules change all the time. Your honour, may I enter into evidence the idiotic "interfering with play" rule. :mad:

But if you believe the rules to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it, it's a bit rich for a lowly mortal to question them, do you not think?

And if you don't believe them to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it - then don't call yourself a catholic / muslim / whatever.

Well now in fairness the rules of the catholic church have changed over time. They were invented by men. They are continually being changed.

VinLieger

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Berserker wrote: »

What makes you think that they are fighting for their existence? 80% of the Irish population identified as Roman Catholic in the last census. It's illegal to lie in a census, so I think that figure is a pretty good marker for the number of people who have a relationship of some nature with the Roman Catholic church. If you disagree with that number, can you provide me with some stats from a reputable source? If the RC church is fighting for it's existence then every other organisation in the country must be dead and buried.

LOL at you saying its illegal to lie on the census, are you expecting the gardai to rock up to peoples houses and arrest anyone who lied.....:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:?

You did ask for evidence about the church fighting for its existence.......

Maybe the fact that church attendance is down to about a weekly 36% with the average in dublin being down about 22% and some working class parishes in dublin showing numbers as low as 3%. In the 1970's this was nationally at 91%.

Or the fact that we simply don't have enough priests anymore required to perform the same level or number of masses that are required.

How about the fact that 57 percent of today's priests are over 60. With that predicted to be 75% by 2030

These days theres less than 80 men training to be priests at the national seminary, in 1990 there were 525.

Or maybe that 66% of the country just approved repealing abortion against the wishes of the church and which was surpsingly a higher number that approved of Same Sex marriages 3 years ago again against the wishes and preachings of the church.

Or how about the fact that catholic marriages are dropping significantly, in 2002 catholic marriages accounted for 77% of all marriages, 2008 it was at 72%, in 2014 this had dropped to 60%, in 2017 this had again reduced to 50%.

So tell me again how the church is not fighting for its existence?

Franz Von Peppercorn

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

We’ve gone way off topic here.

Cupcake_Crisis

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

I know. I voted yes but in fact the church has every right to say “here are our rules. Abide by them or leave”. Hard to see the arrogance there.

The arrogance is in an assuming they have no right to an opinion.

Also nothing to do with this thread really. The forces against the legalisation of prostitution are largely feminist.

When the church can abide by its own rules it can demand that others do too, in my opinion.

Anyway, this isn’t about the church, it’s about prostitutes. And prostitutes are grand.

dr.fuzzenstein

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Well, maybe football was a bad analogy, as it is a game devised by man and the rules change all the time. Your honour, may I enter into evidence the idiotic "interfering with play" rule. :mad:

But if you believe the rules to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it, it's a bit rich for a lowly mortal to question them, do you not think?

And if you don't believe them to be the very word of god, creator of the universe and everything in it - then don't call yourself a catholic / muslim / whatever.

So you believe that one can't eat pork or shellfish, sow different crops at the same time and should never wear 2 different kinds of fabric at the same time?

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well now in fairness the rules of the catholic church have changed over time. They were invented by men. They are continually being changed.

And in a nutshell that is my problem with it. The church, given it's direct line to the omnipotent, should not be swayed by the great unwashed. If the church changes to suit society, that is to me a clear admission of church "teaching" being absolute bollox based on nothing, but the desire to keep the devine gravy train rolling.

Cupcake_Crisis wrote: »

When the church can abide by its own rules it can demand that others do too, in my opinion.

Anyway, this isn’t about the church, it’s about prostitutes. And prostitutes are grand.

Lets hear it for the hookers. Gimme a H, gimme an O......

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So you believe that one can't eat pork or shellfish, sow different crops at the same time and should never wear 2 different kinds of fabric at the same time?

I don't.

Therefore I don't call myself a catholic, or a Christian even for that matter.

It's basically the same as being a man, who only fancies women, but who calls himself a homosexual, who then starts lobbying for homosexuality to mean men who ride women. Just call yourself what you are ffs!

dr.fuzzenstein

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I don't.

Therefore I don't call myself a catholic, or a Christian even for that matter.

It's basically the same as being a man, who only fancies women, but who calls himself a homosexual, who then starts lobbying for homosexuality to mean men who ride women. Just call yourself what you are ffs!

I fundamentally disagree.
Catholics do not burn heretics or witches at the stake, there is no more Inquisition and persecution of infidels and they do not wage holy war to convert counties that are not Christian.
And you wouldn't believe the amount of shellfish they eat.
Going by The Word Of God himself, there isn't a single person on earth that can call themselves Catholic.
Why do they still call themselves Catholic?
Because just like any other club on nearby, we make the rules. And we just make them up as we go along. Nothing is set in stone. The conventions of society are in a constant state of flux as society evolves.

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree.
Catholics do not burn heretics or witches at the stake, there is no more Inquisition and persecution of infidels and they do not wage holy war to convert counties that are not Christian..

I'm not sure where you're going with this, I'm even less sure of what it has to do with hoors?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

And you wouldn't believe the amount of shellfish they eat..

Rather them than me - I'm gonna stick with Leviticus on the shellfish. Maybe I'm more catholic than I like to admit!

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Going by The Word Of God himself, there isn't a single person on earth that can call themselves Catholic..

Do you not think that would be the perfect reason to stop?

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Why do they still call themselves Catholic?.

Fúcked if I know doc. People be crazy.

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Because just like any other club on nearby, we make the rules. And we just make them up as we go along. Nothing is set in stone. The conventions of society are in a constant state of flux as society evolves.

Religion and society are not synonyms.

Society can change every hour on the hour for all I care - the word of god should be immutable. He's omnimpotent, he's omniscient - by his very definition he does not make mistakes - if he says you can't eat shellfish, you better believe you can't. If he says you can't wear poly-cotton, then get that shirt off you. If he says burn an ox, burn a fúcking ox. If he says no gay marriage, abortion whatever - then that's it, none of it, no exceptions.

Unless that is, like me, you couldn't give a rats arse what he says. And if that is the case - then whatever the hell you are, you have no business in calling yourself a catholic!

That much should be self evident to anyone with even a passing interest in logic.



But I digress.....hoors, a great bunch of lads altoghether.:D

jaxxx

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

We’ve gone way off topic here.

Hmm..... you're right!


"BPJ's €20, come and get your BPJ's! Top quality wet BPJ's just €20! You will NOT be disappointed!



Disclaimer: Synthetic BPJ, Bile-Pancreatic Juice, is only to be used under authorisation from your doctor.

anewme

No, it should be illegal and both client and prostitute guilty of an offence (old law)

jaxxx wrote: »

Hmm..... you're right!


"BPJ's €20, come and get your BPJ's! Top quality wet BPJ's just €20! You will NOT be disappointed!



Disclaimer: Synthetic BPJ, Bile-Pancreatic Juice, is only to be used under authorisation from your doctor.

Does that not constitute shilling?:pac:

RubyGlee

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

Legalize it, regulate it, tax it.
Look at the errors other countries have made and improve.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I fundamentally disagree.
Catholics do not burn heretics or witches at the stake, there is no more Inquisition and persecution of infidels and they do not wage holy war to convert counties that are not Christian.
And you wouldn't believe the amount of shellfish they eat.
Going by The Word Of God himself, there isn't a single person on earth that can call themselves Catholic.
Why do they still call themselves Catholic?
Because just like any other club on nearby, we make the rules. And we just make them up as we go along. Nothing is set in stone. The conventions of society are in a constant state of flux as society evolves.

Christianity isn’t Judaism. Christians abandoned Old Testament teachings millennia ago

coffee_cake

nozzferrahhtoo wrote: »

Is that a fact or an assertion though? You certainly have not substantiated it, so I am going with assertion for now.

Let us see what we can call fact though.

1) Trafficking happens.
2) Making sex work illegal does not give us any distinct tools to combat it. And quite often creates issues that hinder that goal.
3) Making sex work legal and regulated potentially does give us those tools, and removes many of the issues that hinder that goal.

How would it help trafficking?
I think that would be my only real concern about it

nozzferrahhtoo

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

bluewolf wrote: »

How would it help trafficking?
I think that would be my only real concern about it

Quite a number of ways, which would be long (even by the standards of my usual nauseating posts) if I listed them all. But I will give a random sample here.

It is important to note however that I do not assert it WILL help with trafficking, what I say is it gives us the tools to try. Until it is tried, and tried well (which few if any countries have done) we can never know for sure.

1) One of the best ways to assist law enforcement in combating crime is to have the public report crime. We are, often, their eyes and ears. If the seller and/or buyer of sex is committing a crime themselves, they are less likely to report any other crime they are aware of lest they incriminate themselves. So a legal and regulated industry gives us the environment where people are more inclined to approach the police.

2) As with many things, like drugs, having the police chase after laws that are useless is a waste of time, money and resources. By making a legal and regulated industry we need not invest such things in useless laws. And so we free up all those people and resources to focus on ACTUAL crimes, like trafficking.

3) Regulation that requires licensing, especially periodic licensing, gives us the tools to evaluate sex workers who apply for that licensing..... so we can potentially better ascertain if they are doing the work willingly or under duress..... and allows us to focus on sex workers WITHOUT those licenses under the assumption there is a reason they did not apply for a license, such as trafficking. It also gives the public the ability to vote with their money and their feet by taking the services of licensed sex workers over unlicensed thus undermining the people who would traffic.

4) Not making sex work an illegal and underground, and thus taboo, industry normalizes it and makes the public more sympathetic towards it. Thus making it easier to engage the public in assisting to improve the industry. And also like in point 1 making people who do not feel like taboo outcasts more inclined to reach out for help socially and economically and more.

5) Having regulated and legal industries allows us to put laws in place about how much people get paid, taxed, insured and more. Thus people here under any duress, even if they managed to get licensed despite that duress, could at least be paid properly rather than have their earnings held to ransom by their controllers. Keeping people "on the books" gives us tools to examine financial issues we otherwise would have no data to work with.

The list goes on but in general whether we ever manage to fight trafficking or not I see nothing about an illegal underground industry that gives us the tools to fight that fight. Whereas a legal regulated visible industry does. Those tools might fail us, but until we explore those potentials.... how will we know.

professore

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

We have Prohibition to show us what happens when you make something commonplace illegal

sbsquarepants

Yes, it should be legalised but *not* regulated

When a law is widely perceived as stupid - people just won't follow it.

Laws need to follow society not the other way around. Society does not, will not, and has not ever followed laws just for the sake of it.

Homosexuality was illegal - didn't deter a single person.
Drugs are illegal - probably the worlds biggest industry.
Prostitution is illegal - the worlds oldest profession and business is still booming.
Music / movie sharing is illegal - you wouldn't download a car would you - too right I would, if it was in anyway possible!

and so on.

People will always ignore laws they find idiotic.