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The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

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    #692
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,113 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    The Talking Bread wrote: »
    Seriously? That is the post you choose to criticise??!

    Yes . I think at least somethings should be private for a family whos lives have been torn asunder . They didn't make it known or public so I would respect that. Its the parents decision when to make that known . Its my opinion .


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    #693
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    It's over. I knew it was on and I didn't post beforehand. Now it's over and can't be attended by people that the family didn't want there it can't be any harm. Long time for the poor family waiting and I'm sure a lifetime of grieving too.
    God help them.


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    #694
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,143 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    Anyone else a bit worried its taking so long to make any arrests. The only reason I can see is that they haven't sufficient evidence?

    I'd say the guards know what they are at with the delay. They must have the DNA at this stage. If there are a number of lads involved, I would say they need one or more of them to give up who struck the first/final/significant blow. The longer the delay, the more pressure, the more likely this is to happen. Otherwise I think the whole case could be a he said/he said situation and it will be hard to sort out.


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    #695
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    It's over. I knew it was on and I didn't post beforehand. Now it's over and can't be attended by people that the family didn't want there it can't be any harm. Long time for the poor family waiting and I'm sure a lifetime of grieving too.
    God help them.

    What gives you the right to decide..


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    #696
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    The rules around detaining children are so strict that, should child suspects be arrested, they would have to be released until the trial except in extraordinary circumstances.

    Think about it; if child suspects for this horrific murder were arrested, they would then be released pending trial. If this happened, there would be a risk of them getting attacked and also identified and lambasted potentially putting a fair trial at risk (and therefore a conviction).

    Therefore, the Gardai need to be practically 100% clear that the suspects are the actual perpetrators as they will need to demonstrate upon arresting them that they should be detained until their trial.


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    #697
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,065 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    Textronic wrote: »
    What gives you the right to decide..

    Seriously?

    The funeral has taken place. I'm sure that fact will be reported by newspapers etc. Can't see any issue here, tbh.

    Not your ornery onager



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    #698
    mirrorwall14
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,751 ✭✭✭mirrorwall14


    Honestly this is one of the only things about the case that hasn't broken to the media in advance or while in progress. It might have been nice for the family to wake up tomorrow and not see a headline that "a private service has taken place". I don't see why it needed to be posted yet

    ETA: I'd have zero issue discussing it or posting it if it was in the media already. But if the media didn't have it, which it appears they didn't-they will now


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    #699
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    mirrorwall14 wrote: »
    Honestly this is one of the only things about the case that hasn't broken to the media in advance or while in progress. It might have been nice for the family to wake up tomorrow and not see a headline that "a private service has taken place". I don't see why it needed to be posted yet

    ETA: I'd have zero issue discussing it or posting it if it was in the media already. But if the media didn't have it, which it appears they didn't-they will now

    Of course they knew but were not invited or were asked to not report before the event.

    The things people get worked up about.


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    #700
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users Posts: 16,113 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Of course they knew and were not invited.

    The things people get worked up about.

    I don't see any one worked up . We simply have an opinion and voiced it . I made a point and I think its as valid as others ? Its just how I feel about it


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    #701
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    The rules around detaining children are so strict that, should child suspects be arrested, they would have to be released until the trial except in extraordinary circumstances.

    Think about it; if child suspects for this horrific murder were arrested, they would then be released pending trial. If this happened, there would be a risk of them getting attacked and also identified and lambasted potentially putting a fair trial at risk (and therefore a conviction).

    Therefore, the Gardai need to be practically 100% clear that the suspects are the actual perpetrators as they will need to demonstrate upon arresting them that they should be detained until their trial.

    You're dead right! I honestly don't know why ppl appear to be so concerned that no arrests have yet been made. It will happen when it happens.

    Unless anyone believes that the investigation is in some way not being properly handled, let the authorities follow due process.. Waaay better to be right than quick IMHO.


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    #702
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Assetbacked wrote: »
    The rules around detaining children are so strict that, should child suspects be arrested, they would have to be released until the trial except in extraordinary circumstances.

    Think about it; if child suspects for this horrific murder were arrested, they would then be released pending trial. If this happened, there would be a risk of them getting attacked and also identified and lambasted potentially putting a fair trial at risk (and therefore a conviction).

    Therefore, the Gardai need to be practically 100% clear that the suspects are the actual perpetrators as they will need to demonstrate upon arresting them that they should be detained until their trial.

    You're dead right! I honestly don't know why ppl appear to be so concerned that no arrests have yet been made. It will happen when it happens.

    Unless anyone believes that the investigation is in some way not being properly handled, let the authorities follow due process.. Waaay better to be right than quick IMHO.
    What difference will it make anyway? Under 18s will not serve any sort of adult term, which are already pathetic anyway.

    All that time and effort will go into investigation and prosecution and to what end? Nothing. Utterly depressing.


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    #703
    KathleenGrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭KathleenGrant


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    You don't know that nobody was raped, though. Most rapes are not reported.

    True.


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    #704
    Strazdas
    Registered Users Posts: 18,226 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    This is the official gofundme page for Ana if anyone would like to make a donation :

    https://www.gofundme.com/Anastasia-kriegel


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    #705
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    screamer wrote: »
    What difference will it make anyway? Under 18s will not serve any sort of adult term, which are already pathetic anyway.

    All that time and effort will go into investigation and prosecution and to what end? Nothing. Utterly depressing.

    That's how the system works following centuries of evolution and development of law in these islands, taking into account what has been learned over that time.


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    #706
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    That's how the system works following centuries of evolution and development of law in these islands, taking into account what has been learned over that time.

    The system doesn't work ,prisoners are not being rehabilitated

    Larry Murphy walked free without cooperating in any way


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    #707
    Caledonia
    Registered Users Posts: 152 ✭✭Caledonia


    Would there not be a concern suspect would take his own life before arrested? That would be my concern re leaving it long.


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    #708
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    rusty cole wrote: »
    I very much doubt her parents are consulting the speculative pages of this thread as a means to stay informed !! are you saying it might as well be martians or robots over the two 14 yr olds with blood stains on their clothing? who claim to have left Ana in good spirits??? the same two which were reported in todays indo as being suspects with highly inconsistent stories about ready to be arrested?? pending DNA on that same blood??

    and your bet is on little green men? well to walk away from a scene in that manner, one would have to be indeed a robot, devoid of all humanity, so maybe you're inadvertently onto something.

    Perhaps I was not clear. I was saying that trying to find a young woman to blame was foolish. Not that the killers were Martians, but that it was as likely that Martians or robots had persuaded boys to kill as that any little girl had done so, as people were theorising, on the basis of zilch information.


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    #709
    knucklehead6
    Registered Users Posts: 6,759 ✭✭✭knucklehead6


    Caledonia wrote: »
    Would there not be a concern suspect would take his own life before arrested? That would be my concern re leaving it long.

    Another reason for this being handled with kid gloves


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    #710
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Only place that is successful in stopping recidivism - in stopping people reoffending when they get out of jail - is Norway, as far as I know.


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    #711
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    You're conflating two horrible killings as though they were somehow part of the same event or set of circumstances when in fact, they had absolutely NOTHING to do with each other. And your first sentiment is grotesque IMHO.

    I read the same post, I think he means that both killings are borne out of the same basic lack of respect for human life.

    He wants the perpetrators to experience a taste of their own medicine. He was writing out of anger.


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    #712
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Textronic wrote: »
    The system doesn't work ,prisoners are not being rehabilitated

    Larry Murphy walked free without cooperating in any way

    Rehabilitation is only one facet of the system. Other facets include acknowledging victims' suffering, society's protection from evildoers, physical restraint/ incarceration, making an example, revenge (however its dressed up) and possibly more. Rehabilitation is a facet that our system strives for, and the system tries somewhat. Contrast it to the system in the USA for example where there is no real attempt at rehabilitation. I don't see it working any better...

    In Murphy's case, perhaps the rehab bit didn't work, but perhaps other facets of the system did work. And just because it didn't work for/on Murphy, doesn't mean it didn't work for anyone.

    The system we have is what we have. I absolutely agree it doesn't work 100% in every case. But it does work most of the time and we should be glad and proud that it works as well as it does.


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    #713
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    Perhaps I was not clear. I was saying that trying to find a young woman to blame was foolish. Not that the killers were Martians, but that it was as likely that Martians or robots had persuaded boys to kill as that any little girl had done so, as people were theorising, on the basis of zilch information.

    I can't help thinking that any young teenage boy would be more amenable to persuasion by a female peer than by a non-specified lifeform from another planet or a mechanised object.


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    #714
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    Rehabilitation is only one facet of the system. Other facets include acknowledging victims' suffering, society's protection from evildoers, physical restraint/ incarceration, making an example, revenge (however its dressed up) and possibly more. Rehabilitation is a facet that our system strives for, and the system tries somewhat. Contrast it to the system in the USA for example where there is no real attempt at rehabilitation. I don't see it working any better...

    In Murphy's case, perhaps the rehab bit didn't work, but perhaps other facets of the system did work. And just because it didn't work for/on Murphy, doesn't mean it didn't work for anyone.

    The system we have is what we have. I absolutely agree it doesn't work 100% in every case. But it does work most of the time and we should be glad and proud that it works as well as it does.

    That last paragraph , seriously?


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    #715
    TomOnBoard
    Registered Users Posts: 5,109 ✭✭✭TomOnBoard


    Textronic wrote: »
    That last paragraph , seriously?

    Yep! Do you have a better alternative?


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    #716
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    There needs to be way to make the offender feel what their victim felt. Whilst I accept repeating the act to them might not be appropriate. VR in the future perhaps.


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    #717
    Omackeral
    Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    TomOnBoard wrote: »
    But it does work most of the time and we should be glad and proud that it works as well as it does.

    It doesn't work, categorically and undeniably. I've been working in prison for the last ten years and the amount of people I see coming back is striking. It's got to be at least 1 in 3. ''Back again?'' ''Ah yeah... ya know yourself.'' It's honestly that nonchalant. I wouldn't be overtly proud of that.


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    #718
    chicorytip
    Registered Users Posts: 4,101 ✭✭✭chicorytip


    This killing is so utterly shocking that I am surprised it's not making headline news all over the world.


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    #719
    zapitastas
    Closed Accounts Posts: 498 ✭✭zapitastas


    OwlsZat wrote: »
    There needs to be way to make the offender feel what their victim felt. Whilst I accept repeating the act to them might not be appropriate. VR in the future perhaps.
    There is a drug called iboga that does that very thing. Should be synthesized and used for punishment.


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    #720
    martingriff
    Registered Users Posts: 10,740 ✭✭✭✭martingriff


    chicorytip wrote: »
    This killing is so utterly shocking that I am surprised it's not making headline news all over the world.

    Really you think a killing here would make the world over. Other countries have there own horrific things to report on (US has recently had a school shooting) Do we here if a horrific killing happens in other countries been headlines.

    This was a horrific killing and I hope those responsible get what they deserve. In that if the garda need extra time to make sure they have got every thing right and all suspects then who are we to demand it should be done right now or that every bit of information was given as if we deserve it. My hope is the familt now have there own private time to grieve and be with each other without the press or amateur sleuths who thing they know better making a circus out of it. Impossible I know


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    #721
    OwlsZat
    Registered Users Posts: 1,510 ✭✭✭OwlsZat


    zapitastas wrote: »
    There is a drug called iboga that does that very thing. Should be synthesized and used for punishment.

    +1 from me. We are so slow moving for using psychedelics for good though. Literally expect it in the year 3000.


This discussion has been closed.
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