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The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

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    #812
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    Hector Savage wrote: »
    two 13 year old boys ..... jesus h christ, what is happening to society ??

    society has been heading this way for years, its only now maybe people will start to act and take note.

    theres a very sinister culture developing in certain parts of Dublin that cannot be anything but a huge risk to public safety over the next few years, if its not controlled.


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    #813
    whelan2
    Registered Users Posts: 29,088 ✭✭✭✭whelan2


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Snaps are automatically deleted from servers after it is detected that a Snap has been opened by all recipients or has expired.

    Snaps remain on their servers until all recipients have opened them. If one recipient doesn’t open the Snap for a week, the Snap will stay on their servers for that week. If a Snap isn’t opened for 30 days, it expires and is deleted.

    Sorry meant what's app. Most teens are on it. Surely there will be some record on their phones of some conversations about it


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    #814
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Textronic wrote: »
    Nothing to do with it

    If they get released without charge the investigation is done for,more than likely

    Usually a file is compiled and submitted to the DPP for directions in cases like this or am I wrong?


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    #815
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    whelan2 wrote: »
    Sorry meant what's app. Most teens are on it. Surely there will be some record on their phones of some conversations about it

    Thought they were mostly on Snapchat ,Instagram and whatever else

    Not sure about WhatsApp ime


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    #816
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    society has been heading this way for years, its only now maybe people will start to act and take note.

    theres a very sinister culture developing in certain parts of Dublin that cannot be anything but a huge risk to public safety over the next few years, if its not controlled.

    It's not just Dublin or even big cities.
    Most towns have the same problem. Feral teens running around in groups threatening people. Bullying in schools particularly of people who they see as "different" is a big problem too.


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    #817
    begbysback
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,910 ✭✭✭begbysback


    megatron989 wrote: »
    Cases like this prove that we have some serious problems in this country. And I'm not talking problems with males I'm talking problems with scum. This is where years of scum getting away with everything is leading us. The perpetrators in this case are little more than animals who should be locked up for the rest of their natural lives.
    I don't buy any of this "sure their only children they don't know any better" nonsense either.
    How do kids get to a place where they think this type of carry on is ok? Where they not taught any morality at all? No of course not, kids bring them selves up now obviously. When will people cop on?

    Would have to disagree, cases like this thankfully are extremely rare - last similar one I recall is were that man killed a kid, though I think he was mentally challenged. It would have nothing to do with precedence of "scum" getting away with it, I wouldn't be surprised if the perps here are deemed mentally challenged too.


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    #818
    wakka12
    Registered Users Posts: 9,786 ✭✭✭wakka12


    I wonder if those parents could ever feel love for their boys again, after listening to the police questioning and hearing every detail of what theyre capable of


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    #819
    cfuserkildare
    Registered Users Posts: 3,573 ✭✭✭cfuserkildare


    Lots of kids these days see No Consequences for they're actions,
    Do you not drive? Do you not see how many people think " Ah its only a small thing " when they run traffic lights at pedestrian crossings Especially near schools?
    This is just 1 example of how Ireland is today.


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    #820
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Fair enough but I wasn't really talking about forgiveness, just that I don't think you can treat a 13 year old the same as an adult who has committed a crime.

    Why not?

    Do you think that a 13 year old might be in some doubt as to the rights and wrongs of raping and murdering another kid?

    Do you think that a 13 year old who would rape and murder another kid might turn out to be a perfectly fine adult?

    I personally believe that the answer to the 2 questions above is a very firm no.


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    #821
    tayto lover
    Registered Users Posts: 51,493 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Ush1 wrote: »
    Fair enough but I wasn't really talking about forgiveness, just that I don't think you can treat a 13 year old the same as an adult who has committed a crime.

    Is that not a major part of the problem? They got away with too much already and saw no consequences for a lot of the things they did and then progressed on to bigger things.


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    #822
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    Why not?

    Do you think that a 13 year old might be in some doubt as to the rights and wrongs of raping and murdering another kid?

    Do you think that a 13 year old who would rape and murder another kid might turn out to be a perfectly fine adult?

    I personally believe that the answer to the 2 questions above is a very firm no.

    No to the first and I don't know to second, but I presume it would be hard to have a normal life. They most likely aren't if they spend the rest of their lives in prison.

    My point would be that they don't fully grasp the consequences of their actions. I believe there has been a lot of research in this area which indicated the parts of the brain responsible for empathy are not fully formed at that age. This has been put forward in defence for cases in the US of crimes committed by children.

    Where would you draw the line? A very young child knows it's wrong to hit someone. The issue of regulation of emotion which is generally far worse in younger people.

    The other thing is that while this case is extreme, bullying in adolescences is extremely common. It is very linked to social hierarchy and I think more research needs to be done in this area rather than just saying these kids were "evil", but still acknowledge and punish them for what was a horrendous crime.


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    #823
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    tayto lover wrote: »
    Is that not a major part of the problem? They got away with too much already and saw no consequences for a lot of the things they did and then progressed on to bigger things.

    I don't know if that's the case, you could be right. I'm not saying people should forgive them by the way.


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    #824
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    wakka12 wrote: »
    I wonder if those parents could ever feel love for their boys again, after listening to the police questioning and hearing every detail of what theyre capable of

    I somehow doubt there are 2 sets of well adjusted paents utterly shocked by all this.

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #825
    DublinHun72
    Registered Users Posts: 142 ✭✭DublinHun72


    silverharp wrote: »
    wakka12 wrote: »
    I wonder if those parents could ever feel love for their boys again, after listening to the police questioning and hearing every detail of what theyre capable of

    I somehow doubt there are 2 sets of well adjusted paents utterly shocked by all this.
    Why do you think this? Literally just curious.


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    #826
    Suckit
    Registered Users Posts: 11,215 ✭✭✭✭Suckit


    Ush1 wrote: »

    The other thing is that while this case is extreme, bullying in adolescences is extremely common. It is very linked to social hierarchy and I think more research needs to be done in this area rather than just saying these kids were "evil", but still acknowledge and punish them for what was a horrendous crime.

    Bullying may be common, but beating with rocks and sticks?
    I have seen sexual assault mentioned in this thread, but nowhere else, was there any evidence of that, apart from being found naked?

    Do you/anyone think that the social hierarchy will also be held accountable in some way by the Gardaí?

    I don't know or can't see legally how, but I hope they are. I have seen a very small bit of bullying in my life, and I could see who was orchestrating it. It was one single girl who had two girls who idolised her, and so on.
    The head bitch's family moved away when she was 14/15 and the other two weren't as dangerous.
    Everyone involved in this should be held accountable in some form or other.


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    #827
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    Should be but it wouldn't be the first time everyone involved walked away from a.murder.rap


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    #828
    Amalgam
    Registered Users Posts: 6,026 ✭✭✭Amalgam


    https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0525/965918-anastasia-kriegel/

    Two 13 year olds arrested.
    Gardai say they only disclosed the arrests this morning because of the sensitivity of the investigation and their concern about anger over the murder in some sections of the community.


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    #829
    silverharp
    Registered Users Posts: 17,840 ✭✭✭✭silverharp


    DublinHun72 wrote: »
    Why do you think this? Literally just curious.

    just a hunch, lets just say I would be interested in their back story

    A belief in gender identity involves a level of faith as there is nothing tangible to prove its existence which, as something divorced from the physical body, is similar to the idea of a soul. - Colette Colfer



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    #830
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I wouldn't be so sure, and I'm not sure it even makes any difference - if ALL they wanted to do was rape and batter her, does that make them any better? These kids are scum - the how's and why's of that I don't know, but the fact that they are scum is entirely self evident.



    What if he is?

    Some crimes are so heinous that they are just unforgiveable. There's rehabilitation but there is also punishment.

    I agree with you squarepants and hope to god some soft touches call in sick for jury duty should this ever see a court date. They'll start coming up with shyte like ADHD, history of social dysfunction, lower than average IQ, easily influenced and my personal favourite, "victims themselves"....


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    #831
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    This thread shows another issue

    People getting hysterical and sensationalist thinking the world is going to end.

    There have always been dangers out there and it is extremely rare for something like what happened to ana to happen.

    We can't wrap kids up in cotton wool. They need to learn to work things out. Bullying is not new, fighting is not new, breaking red lights is not new.

    If you look at actual statistics, its safer these days for children.

    What is new is 24/7 sensationalism in the media and hysteria in social media.

    So take a step back and understand that whilst the two murders in the past couple of weeks were horrendous, its not a new "trend" and in comparison to many countries, people are quite safe here.


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    #832
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-People have been arrested so locking this while I check with the higher ups regarding it. Very sensitive case with minors involved so don't want to take a chance.


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    #833
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Mod-The higher ups have spoken. This will remain locked for the time being.


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    #834
    Ken.
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,898 ✭✭✭✭Ken.


    Just updating this.

    https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/breaking-13-year-old-boy-charged-with-the-murder-of-anastasia-kriegel-845046.html

    Breaking: 13-year-old boy charged with the murder of Anastasia Kriegel.
    4.15pm: A teenager has been charged in connection with the murder of schoolgirl Anastasia Kriegel.


    This thread will remain closed till the conclusion of any trial and possible appeals.


This discussion has been closed.
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