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The horrific death of Ana Kriegel

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    #632
    Ush1
    Registered Users Posts: 11,461 ✭✭✭✭Ush1


    ThinkProgress wrote: »
    If that is actually true, then this thing just got even more cruel...

    How does her family wrap their heads around such an ending for their child? I'm sure they won't only need justice, but also some kind of explanation and answer for why this happened...

    I think some peoples rage, which is understandable, is making them overlook the age aspect of this.

    Young teens can be very cruel, many children of that age do not have empathy with a person they may be causing distress to.

    Obviously this case is extreme, but I can remember in school large groups of kids bullying certain kids to the point where looking back it's amazing some of them didn't take their own life. Especially if a group is involved in the bullying and their is an element of social hierarchy.


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    #633
    Rechuchote
    Registered Users Posts: 1,171 ✭✭✭Rechuchote


    Senature wrote: »
    What? How exactly can people who weren't present be responsible for this horror? Other kids may have been involved in bullying her or lying about who she might be meeting in the park. That is nasty and they are responsible for their own nasty words and actions. Anyone who engaged in sexual assault, violence and murder knew at the very least they were badly harming and hurting someone to put it mildly. How could they have been "set up" to engage in such violence? Serious mental gymnastics there.

    The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.


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    #634
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Rechuchote wrote: »
    The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

    thats some leap and stretching there, boss


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    #635
    tupenny
    Registered Users Posts: 1,439 ✭✭✭tupenny


    tayto lover wrote: »
    That's my belief too.

    Both of you are wrong. No girls involved in any way.


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    #636
    Senature
    Registered Users Posts: 340 ✭✭Senature


    King of Kings wrote: »
    Rechuchote wrote: »
    The post replied to above is just part of the Irish attitude to women that we will hopefully start to purge with tomorrow's vote.

    thats some leap and stretching there, boss

    Unfortunately it's not a big leap. Inherent ingrained misogyny that shocks me in Irish society all the time. In this case so far as we think we know, a young teenage girl was sexually assaulted, battered with pieces of wood etc and murdered by one or more males. But according to some it was really the girls who weren't even there that are actually responsible for them doing that....


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    #637
    homerjay2005
    Registered Users Posts: 29,346 ✭✭✭✭homerjay2005


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    People tend to forget the fact that some kids are just cúnts.

    this. too many excuses being made for some kids these days.


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    #638
    Deep_learning
    Registered Users Posts: 42 ✭Deep_learning


    Electric Sheep wrote: »
    It may be one boy charged with the actual murder, but I would not be at all surprised if the attack was instigated by girls. They/she might not have been present for the act itself, but stirred the pot and set the boys up to do it.

    A teenage boy sexually assaults and brutally murders a teenage girl.

    Yet, you seem to have an inherent need to blame girls.


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    #639
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    I've often heard it said that young teenage girls are more socially adept than boys of the same age. But just because such girls might be clever enough to manipulate such boys doesn't mean it actually happened in this case.


    Two things lead me to think that more than one perpetrator was involved:

    1. The fact that it seems to have been an orchestrated situation.

    2. Two types of weapon were referenced.


    Perhaps a larger group conspired to lure Ana and keep her at the scene until she was at the mercy of the local dead-eyed, sparkless, knuckle-dragging no-hoper and his zombie, throw & fetch sidekick.


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    #640
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Senature wrote: »
    Unfortunately it's not a big leap. Inherent ingrained misogyny that shocks me in Irish society all the time. In this case so far as we think we know, a young teenage girl was sexually assaulted, battered with pieces of wood etc and murdered by one or more males. But according to some it was really the girls who weren't even there that are actually responsible for them doing that....

    I dont see what is unreasonable about that opinion . There is a concept in law of joint venture...it is possible that others beyond the actual killers were involved.

    thats up to the DPP not us on boards .If others (male or female) were involved they should face consequences.

    BUT I also must point out we dont know anything yet as to who was or was not involved.

    One thing we do know from this case and the terrible murder of Jastine Valdez is that the papers are full of crap and the waffle on boards makes as much sense.

    so yeah its some leap to make.


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    #641
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    bessboroughboy wrote: »
    I've often heard it said that young teenage girls are more socially adept than boys of the same age. But just because such girls might be clever enough to manipulate such boys doesn't mean it actually happened in this case.

    Yes how do you even manipulate a person to rape and murder? How would they not stop at the victim's first scream?
    In the absence of any such evidence it's quite a telling leap to assume that the simplest explanation (they are a rapist and a murderer) is wrong and they were in fact put up to it by some evil girls, who were never reported to be around at all.


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    #642
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    strandroad wrote: »
    Yes how do you even manipulate a person to rape and murder? How would they not stop at the victim's first scream?
    In the absence of any such evidence it's quite a telling leap to assume that the simplest explanation (they are a rapist and a murderer) is wrong and they were in fact put up to it by some evil girls, who were never reported to be around at all.

    Sorry, didn't see your very first word!

    I now realise you were agreeing with me so I've edited accordingly.


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    #643
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
    I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.


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    #644
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
    I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

    what is house arrest ?? There is no concept I've heard of in ireland of this...
    Can you please elaborate?


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    #645
    strandroad
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,676 ✭✭✭strandroad


    bessboroughboy wrote: »
    I only said "manipulate", I meant in a general context, that's why I only said "manipulate".

    I did not say manipulate to do anything specific.

    In any case, if manipulation were involved in this case, the situation must surely have escalated way beyond a set-up prank.

    Furthermore, my point was that no manipulation was necessarily involved.

    Sorry I was actually agreeing with you mostly. I find the way of thinking of these posters above quite astounding.
    Reports: a group of lads was involved in a rape and murder of a girl.
    Posters: oh the (absent) girls put them up to it.
    What the hell...


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    #646
    mcgovern
    Registered Users Posts: 4,267 ✭✭✭mcgovern


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
    I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

    One of the original two rumoured teens is no longer a suspect, I think it is just one teen (male) now under suspicion?


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    #647
    bessboroughboy
    Registered Users Posts: 104 ✭✭bessboroughboy


    strandroad wrote: »
    Sorry I was actually agreeing with you mostly. I find the way of thinking of these posters above quite astounding.
    Reports: a group of lads was involved in a rape and murder of a girl.
    Posters: oh the (absent) girls put them up to it.
    What the hell...

    Completely my fault, not yours at all.

    Thanks for taking the time to reply.


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    #648
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    King of Kings wrote: »
    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
    I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

    what is house arrest ?? There is no concept I've heard of in ireland of this...
    Can you please elaborate?

    Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.


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    #649
    Wombatman
    Registered Users Posts: 3,337 ✭✭✭Wombatman


    Maybe there is some truth that two unknown men were involved. I hope AGS weren't so focused on the teen suspects that they neglected this line of enquiry.


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    #650
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    mcgovern wrote: »
    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Haven't heard a whisper about any girls and I've heard a lot. Of course it's possible but anything is possible.
    I've heard 3 names, all male, all under house arrest as we speak.

    One of the original two rumoured teens is no longer a suspect, I think it is just one teen (male) now under suspicion?

    Not sure, just heard about 3 separate boys. I've passed names on to nobody because of this very reason, they could all be not guilty in the end.


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    #651
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    Wombatman wrote: »
    Maybe there is some truth that two unknown men were involved. I hope AGS weren't so focused on the teen suspects that they neglected this line of enquiry.

    Very unlikely. The story about the men only came out when Ana was found and suspects questioned. On Thursday or Friday. 3 or 4 days after the boys claimed they were assaulted by 2 unknown men on the Monday. Didnt think to mention it before then.


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    #652
    degsie
    Registered Users Posts: 8,740 ✭✭✭degsie


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

    Are they allowed to attend school?


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    #653
    Textronic
    Closed Accounts Posts: 47 ✭Textronic


    degsie wrote: »
    Are they allowed to attend school?

    They wouldn't be attending anyhow with all the goings on atm


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    #654
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    degsie wrote: »
    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

    Are they allowed to attend school?

    Wouldn't say so. Very unlikely.


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    #655
    Easygame1
    Registered Users Posts: 3 ✭Easygame1


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Wouldn't say so. Very unlikely.

    They are not in school.


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    #656
    King of Kings
    Registered Users Posts: 1,695 ✭✭✭King of Kings


    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

    this is nonsense.

    the police cant hold a person without arrest.
    Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
    even on holidays.


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    #657
    Heres Johnny
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭Heres Johnny


    King of Kings wrote: »
    Heres Johnny wrote: »
    Not in official custody but being monitored. These lads aren't being given free reign to go about their business.

    this is nonsense.

    the police cant hold a person without arrest.
    Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
    even on holidays.

    Fair enough! Maybe they have conditions imposed.


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    #658
    CeilingFly
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    King of Kings wrote: »
    this is nonsense.

    the police cant hold a person without arrest.
    Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
    even on holidays.

    yes, of course they can go wherever they want, but make any attempt at it and they would be arrested immediately and in full public glare. You can be sure that they and their family are very aware of this.


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    #659
    Neyite
    Administrators, Politics Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,947 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Neyite


    King of Kings wrote: »
    this is nonsense.

    the police cant hold a person without arrest.
    Unless under arrest or having bail conditions imposed by a judge they can go where they want.
    even on holidays.

    Probably any 'house arrest' is imposed by the parents. I'd imagine that parents have consulted with a specialised lawyer the moment it became clear their child had knowledge of the murder or events leading up to it. Any lawyer (and I'm not even one!) would probably recommend keeping any suspect off school, away from friends and with no access to phone or internet to prevent any further self-incrimination or collusion with others during an ongoing Garda investigation.

    Siblings would probably have to be kept off school too for the same reason.

    As sickened as any parent might be to realise that your son could have participated in such a heinious act, they are still a minor and you are still going to have to make decisions with the defence lawyers on behalf of your child.


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    #660
    KathleenGrant
    Registered Users Posts: 3,777 ✭✭✭KathleenGrant


    homerjay2005 wrote: »
    this. too many excuses being made for some kids these days.

    Agree. Yes there was bullying in my school, physical and verbal but nobody raped and tortured anyone. This is depraved, evil.


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    #661
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I just read a few posts from the last few pages and cannot believe some post which show a margin of sympathy for the killer/killers.

    Put your child in her place, now this is all alleged ok.

    Viscously bullied
    tricked into meeting boys
    Laughed at and jeered once she arrives.
    Whatever happened then, the fact is a young child
    died in the most horrendous way imaginable. You would hope it
    was more than one or two people only because there was more than
    two items with blood on them, meaning two guys looked for more weapons!!
    without being too graphic, let that sink in.

    What's worse, these lads slept!! for 3 nights apparently!!
    that takes it to a different level ok sick!! from what I've heard they're goosed
    but whatever the delay is, I cannot understand myself.


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