Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

Deusexmachina · 24-05-2018 12:09PM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

I wouldn’t contribute a cent towards his family. It was his duty to look after his family, not everyone else’s.

That kind of righteous indignation always rings hollow and callous.

There are many victims of this crime - including Jastine, her family, friends and the wider community - but also including this mans wife, children and family and the Guard who had to shoot him.

tara73 · 24-05-2018 12:10PM

also, the detective and guards around the car obviously couldn't exactly figure out whether Jastine was in the car or not. I guess it's a big point people forget here atm. there was the risk for them he takes her hostage or starts attacking her too.

also they couldn't know 100% whether he has a gun with him or not. In one article I read the guard finally fired the shot when MH reached out to the passenger seat next to him which looked like he wanted to grab something.

This to me makes perfect sense. They surely shouted to him to lay down the knife and get out of the car with hands up more than once. He didn't follow, instead at some stage he grabbed to the passenger seat. So that's when they shot.

Just my conclusion of events from what was posted in the newspapers why they (hopefully rightful) shot.

ted1 · 24-05-2018 12:12PM

Footage of him walking through the car park in Ballybrack after leaving leaving the ramblers shortly before he kidnapped Jastine. Is on the independent

wellwhynot · 24-05-2018 12:13PM

I think setting up a go fund me account for the Hennessy family is a very bad idea. I have sympathy for his wife and children. I heard on the radio she was considering separating from him and moving back to her home country before this happened. No doubt she will now and I am glad she has this option. I will not be contributing a penny to her relocation or his funeral costs though. I think it sets a bad precedent. What about Larry Murphy’s family or the person who murdered Ana’s family? Should they get a GoFundMe page too?

orangerhyme · 24-05-2018 12:21PM

wellwhynot wrote: »

I think setting up a go fund me account for the Hennessey family is a very bad idea. I have sympathy for his wife and children. I heard on the radio she was considering separating from him and moving back to her home town country before this happened. No doubt she will now and I am glad she has this option. I will not be contributing a penny to her relocation or his funeral costs though. I think it sets a bad precedent. What about Larry Murphy’s family or the person who murdered Ana’s family? Should they get a GoFundMe page too?

Its a difficult dilemma really but I think its best not to raise money for his family, although they are victims also.
Id assume shed move back to the UK with her kids also.
I think the Gofundme page would just be people leaving nasty comments etc so not worth it really.

kippy · 24-05-2018 12:30PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

So GSOC have confirmed that Mr. Hennessy was in the vehicle when he was shot.

GSOC will now assess what actions led to the Detective using his weapon. AFAIK, there have been three reported reasons by the media.

1. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he believed the victim was in the vehicle and under imminent mortal threat. Which turned out not to be the case.

2. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as a result of Mr. Hennessy threatening and lunging at an unarmed AGS member with a stanley knife. This is not the case as Mr. Hennessey was contained and shot in the vehicle.

3. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he bent down in the footwell of the car, asessed as reaching for a firearm. This also turned out not to be the case.

Ultimately, the investigation may focus on the impact of the round, which has been reported as entering Mr. Hennessey's rear shoulder, which caused the fatality.

To most people it wont matter why he was shot as Mr. Hennessey's actions were deserving of that fate. The investigators may take a different view.

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Like it or not, the investigators will remove all emotions from the case and scrutinise the Detectives actions, which is their function.

Now before I get lashed out of it here by obviously more knowledgeable internet folk. This is an impartial view and an angle which some might not be aware of or is not popular to acknowledge.

Firstly, I am not "anti-AGS", before some of you label me as it. I have no agenda and I have never been "done by de Gards".

Secondly, I have professionally worked alongside AGS in various roles over the years and know how professional, well trained and capable they are, I would wager many here have not.

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

Forthly, I actually have been in a situation where it was 50/50 whether or not to squeeze the trigger myself, unlike most here. So I am aware of what the Detective was facing and what was potentially going through his head.

Finally, this is the reality that the Detective now finds himself in. That squeeze of the trigger and him performing his duty is now under the microscope, it matters not what we think.

The questions GSOC will want answered are:

1. Why Mr. Hennessey was shot in the back in a contained environment which at that time, posed limited immediate threat to life outside of the vehicle. Will GSOC decide it was excessive use of force and disproportionate to the threat at the time?

2. Why did the Detective not clear and ready his weapon as trained, especially if he assessed that there was an immediate threat to life. This contradicts his actions in Para 1.

Im hoping scenario 3 above is the official AGS line. Hopefully the Detective can rest easy and the investigation is awarded in his favour. He performed his duty and shouldnt be penalised for it, despite reported inconsistencies in the event and any potential technicalities with the use of force.

I would hope it wont cause other members of the force to hessitate to act in the future.

Ultimately the officer had a split second to react to whatever threat he felt existed and there were any number of real time threats that could have existed at the time and any number of warnings that were issued to the suspect.
I would hope that other officers who have charge of firearms in similar situations with similar variables NOT be dissuaded from using their firearms to be honest.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k · 24-05-2018 12:31PM

Deusexmachina wrote: »

That kind of righteous indignation always rings hollow and callous.

There are many victims of this crime - including Jastine, her family, friends and the wider community - but also including this mans wife, children and family and the Guard who had to shoot him.

And in my opinion it’s not callous to direct my sympathy to two people who have to bury their only child or the man who went to work on Sunday morning to keep us safe and came home with blood on his hands.

I pity that freaks kids and wife, sucks to have a physco living in the house and not realizing it but I wouldn’t contribute to a fund that would help bury him in a nice plot and give him a good send off. They can have my sympathy of being close to someone capable of such a heinous act but why should they get donations on the back of someone they loved murdering an innocent woman?

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2018 12:43PM

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Barry, assuming it was a pistol and not a revolver I'd be wondering was the shot an ND and why wasn't IA's carried out.

If it was a pistol, forget the above obviously.

o1s1n · 24-05-2018 12:47PM

Ulises Juicy Vegetation wrote: »

Barry, assuming it was a pistol and not a revolver I'd be wondering was the shot an ND and why wasn't IA's carried out.

If it was a pistol, forget the above obviously.

Indeed, standard issue now is a Sig pistol but some older detectives still use S&W revolvers. (Which would be in line with no ejection of a casing)

24-05-2018 01:00PM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

I wouldn’t contribute a cent towards his family. It was his duty to look after his family, not everyone else’s.

That's a fair enough stance for you to take personally but they certainly are victims in this whole sordid event too. You'd have to feel horrendous for them.

24-05-2018 01:04PM

RasTa wrote: »

As i said earlier .... P45

As many many others have said, you haven't a clue. There'll be no P45 at all. The bullet ricocheted from his shoulder into this head. It's not as simple as ''Clear...take the shot!'' and then you incapacitate him and everyone clap and cheers.

Also 99.9% of us here wouldn't be cut out for that job.

Pawwed Rig · 24-05-2018 01:11PM

I have great sympathy for his wife and kids. It will be tough on the kids especially as they get older as we are constantly asked during school about Mammy and Daddy. The family do, however, have the option of moving away, changing the surname and moving on with their life and are in many ways better off in that they are now safe. This is something not afforded to Jastine and her parents (who must be heartbroken).

It is tough losing a parent but nothing like losing a child.

Kuva · 24-05-2018 01:28PM

Omackeral wrote: »

As many many others have said, you haven't a clue. There'll be no P45 at all. The bullet ricocheted from his shoulder into this head. It's not as simple as ''Clear...take the shot!'' and then you incapacitate him and everyone clap and cheers.

Also 99.9% of us here wouldn't be cut out for that job.

Shoulder to torso hitting an artery is the latest but alot of reporting has been mostly made up so can't believe anything.

oneilla · 24-05-2018 01:31PM

Ulises Juicy Vegetation wrote: »

Barry, assuming it was a pistol and not a revolver I'd be wondering was the shot an ND and why wasn't IA's carried out.

If it was a pistol, forget the above obviously.

What does ND and IA stand for?

mackeire · 24-05-2018 01:32PM

fergiesfolly wrote: »

I know there's bound to be a morbid fascination with him and the crime he committed and may have committed previously, but I keep waiting to see or hear Jastines story.
Jastine was not just a victim, but a young woman in a new country, with hopes and dreams and a full life before he took it from her.
I googled Jastines name before posting here and all I got back were stories on her death and profiles on him. I do wish the media would give some focus to Jastines life before her kidnapping.
RIP Jastine. I hope your family find some peace in the support they've received.

Because the media don't care about her back story.
They can't sell papers based on a story about a girl who worked and went to college. How can they sensational that?

A friend of mine died a few months ago and there was suspicious circumstances at first surrounding his death.
The media were all over it for a day or two but when it was confirmed to be a tragic accident, they lost interest straight away and that was the end of their involvement.
I even had a freelance journalist contact me asking for as much info on my friend as I could give her so she could write something about him. I told her to eff off because I wasn't going to give her ammo to write what she wanted and maybe twist what I said and make money from selling her article.

I used to work with mark Hennessy aswell, only for a short while a few years ago and would have never forseen a tragedy like this. And was actually shocked when his name was released.

Very sad for all concerned, the valdez family and friends, Mark Hennessy's family and friends, the person who witnessed the abduction, the Gardai, and everyone affected by this in the communities of Enniskerry, ballybrack, bray and further beyond.

Ishmael · 24-05-2018 01:43PM

oneilla wrote: »

What does ND and IA stand for?

Negligent Discharge and Impact Assessment i think.

seamus · 24-05-2018 01:48PM

wellwhynot wrote: »

I think setting up a go fund me account for the Hennessy family is a very bad idea. I have sympathy for his wife and children. I heard on the radio she was considering separating from him and moving back to her home country before this happened. No doubt she will now and I am glad she has this option. I will not be contributing a penny to her relocation or his funeral costs though. I think it sets a bad precedent. What about Larry Murphy’s family or the person who murdered Ana’s family? Should they get a GoFundMe page too?

I'm generally on-the-fence about GoFundMe's for this kind of thing.

It's one step up from "thoughts and prayers" I suppose, but I don't know what solace a bereaved family is going to take from €100,000 dropping into their bank account.

I would understand if there were specific costs that need covering; funerals are kind of expensive, but not that expensive. In the US, families may be left with six-figure bills for medical and funeral costs, and that's where this idea of GoFundMe's for bereavement came from.

But it's not the same here. To me it just comes across as, "Sorry your family member was killed, here's some money to ease the pain".

Of course, I know that people are just trying to do something, anything to support the family and show them that society cares. And I don't have any better ideas.

Neyite · 24-05-2018 01:57PM

Pawwed Rig wrote: »

I have great sympathy for his wife and kids. It will be tough on the kids especially as they get older as we are constantly asked during school about Mammy and Daddy. The family do, however, have the option of moving away, changing the surname and moving on with their life and are in many ways better off in that they are now safe. This is something not afforded to Jastine and her parents (who must be heartbroken).

It is tough losing a parent but nothing like losing a child.

The wife is better off being his widow rather than being a separated or ex-wife. She would probably not be allowed to leave the jurisdiction with the children. Or been obliged to bring the kids to see him in prison. Now she doesn't have to split their assets with a separated partner or worry about him becoming violent during a split. A clean break from a man she never knew was a monster.

strandroad · 24-05-2018 02:02PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm generally on-the-fence about GoFundMe's for this kind of thing.

It's one step up from "thoughts and prayers" I suppose, but I don't know what solace a bereaved family is going to take from €100,000 dropping into their bank account.

I would understand if there were specific costs that need covering; funerals are kind of expensive, but not that expensive. In the US, families may be left with six-figure bills for medical and funeral costs, and that's where this idea of GoFundMe's for bereavement came from.

Last minute flights from or to the Philippines will be very expensive, and there might be sizeable family travelling to comfort or to attend any ceremonies, they will need accommodation too. That's worth five figures alone.
I don't think it's about solace as much as about taking one more worry off them. One more thing resolved without them having to organise or stress about expenses. They can always do something charitable to commemorate Jastine with the excess later, if any exists. Some people would find a small degree of comfort in that.

listermint · 24-05-2018 02:06PM

strandroad wrote: »

Last minute flights from or to the Philippines will be very expensive, and there might be sizeable family travelling to comfort or to attend any ceremonies, they will need accommodation too. That's worth five figures alone.
I don't think it's about solace as much as about taking one more worry off them. One more thing resolved without them having to organise or stress about expenses. They can always do something charitable to commemorate Jastine with the excess later, if any exists. Some people would find a small degree of comfort in that.

Repatriation of a body to her home country is expensive.

iamwhoiam · 24-05-2018 02:09PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm generally on-the-fence about GoFundMe's for this kind of thing.

It's one step up from "thoughts and prayers" I suppose, but I don't know what solace a bereaved family is going to take from €100,000 dropping into their bank account.

I would understand if there were specific costs that need covering; funerals are kind of expensive, but not that expensive. In the US, families may be left with six-figure bills for medical and funeral costs, and that's where this idea of GoFundMe's for bereavement came from.

But it's not the same here. To me it just comes across as, "Sorry your family member was killed, here's some money to ease the pain".

Of course, I know that people are just trying to do something, anything to support the family and show them that society cares. And I don't have any better ideas.

It might comfort the parents to know people cared . How they use it is entirely up to them but maybe they can support others in her name and take comfort that in some little way we tried to reach out to them

Deusexmachina · 24-05-2018 02:12PM

Sydney Hallowed Shellfish wrote: »

And in my opinion it’s not callous to direct my sympathy to two people who have to bury their only child or the man who went to work on Sunday morning to keep us safe and came home with blood on his hands.

I pity that freaks kids and wife, sucks to have a physco living in the house and not realizing it but I wouldn’t contribute to a fund that would help bury him in a nice plot and give him a good send off. They can have my sympathy of being close to someone capable of such a heinous act but why should they get donations on the back of someone they loved murdering an innocent woman?

Of course you have sympathy for the parents of Jastine and for the Guard. That does not make you morally superior to those of us who also have sympathy for Hennessy’s poor wife and children.
It’s not an ‘either or’ situation.
Anyway, nobody is asking for your money.

Wombatman · 24-05-2018 02:23PM

Under normal circumstances the guards would probably wait it out but time was of the essence in this one. They needed information on her ASAP and the didn't want the suspect to succeed in killing himself with the knife.

Guessing they were planning to shot him in the shoulder and then storm the car, the shoulder probably being the safest visible place to shoot him.

Strazdas · 24-05-2018 02:44PM

Wombatman wrote: »

Under normal circumstances the guards would probably wait it out but time was of the essence in this one. They needed information on her ASAP and the didn't want the suspect to succeed in killing himself with the knife.

Guessing they were planning to shot him in the shoulder and then storm the car, the shoulder probably being the safest visible place to shoot him.

Yes indeed, they weren't trying to kill him, they were merely trying to incapacitate him and stop him posing a threat. They were probably very unlucky with the way the bullet entered his body. We could just as easily be talking about the killer being under armed guard in a Dublin hospital at the moment.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2018 02:48PM

oneilla wrote: »

What does ND and IA stand for?

Sorry for the confusion, I was replying to someone who had military service like me.

Negligent Discharge (carelessly/accidentally discharging your weapon).

IA' means Immediate Actions.. These are the actions you take in the event of a malfunction of your weapon. We were supposing a case was left in the chamber or magazine of the weapon. The IA there would be to clear the obstruction in this case the spent casing and carry on shooting (or at least be prepared to carry on firing, ie the weapon is serviceable again).

I'm not getting bogged down on supposition of what happened in this incident, but as someone who is regularly armed I'm naturally interested in what happened to the weapon.

I don't really care what happened to the murderer except to say that I hope the Guard is ok and that his superiors are looking out for his welfare.

The murderers family are also completely innocent victims of all this, and I keep them in my thoughts also and would hope that they're not shunned by their community.

Sorry for the confusion earlier.

Strazdas · 24-05-2018 02:51PM

seamus wrote: »

I'm generally on-the-fence about GoFundMe's for this kind of thing.

It's one step up from "thoughts and prayers" I suppose, but I don't know what solace a bereaved family is going to take from €100,000 dropping into their bank account.

I would understand if there were specific costs that need covering; funerals are kind of expensive, but not that expensive. In the US, families may be left with six-figure bills for medical and funeral costs, and that's where this idea of GoFundMe's for bereavement came from.

But it's not the same here. To me it just comes across as, "Sorry your family member was killed, here's some money to ease the pain".

Of course, I know that people are just trying to do something, anything to support the family and show them that society cares. And I don't have any better ideas.

The fund was set up mainly to help Jastine's family with the cost of her funeral, not as some sort of compensation fund.

There are lots of good uses any extra money can be put to. Jastine's grandparents are in the Philippines and she lived with them all her life until three years ago. Some of the fund could go them, I'm sure that is what Jastine would want to happen.

p1akuw47h5r3it · 24-05-2018 03:01PM

oneilla wrote: »

What does ND and IA stand for?

Negligent discharge and immediate action. Ia is the first thing you carry out if you get a stoppage.

Edit: I see the op responded first woops!

Doltanian · 24-05-2018 03:31PM

I would like to contribute to the Garda who shot this murderer, he is a hero for Ireland in a time where we are being dictated to by politically correct weaklings and this combined with a disgusting liberal judicial system which places criminals above the law abiding Citizen, anyone with 5+ serious convictions who just simply be shot like the rabid dogs they are to society, we need the Death Penalty badly or else bring back extra-Judicial killings giving Gardai freedom to roam and kill scum. The moment a person kills someone they should lose all their human rights and repeat offenders for lesser crimes should also be executed.

Why would anyone want this tramp to live after what he did to that beautiful innocent girl who came to Ireland legally to contribute and be part of Irish society, Filipinas are really the best type of immigrants we have received unlike many other welfare tourist, parasite and terror class we have received from other regions. Filipinas also bring a strong sense of family values and a great Christian morality and work ethic, the very fact that this murderer was shot dead by the Guards will resonate well within their culture where they have elected a strong leader who culled thousands in his war on corruption and drugs in Manila.

It will be never bring her back but there is a 100% chance he will never reoffend or kill again, wheras if he surrendered you can guarantee he would be released within 10 or 15 years into a pathetic joke of a life sentence or maybe involuntary manslaughter,meanwhile the parasite legal profession and judiciary would cream off millions in trials and appeals etc. One bullet costs cents by comparison.

DMcL1971 · 24-05-2018 03:41PM

Always interested to read one of Doltanian’s posts. I’ve never agreed with a single thing he has said put he never fails to make me laugh. It is a very strange world he seems to live in.

Sminkypinky · 24-05-2018 04:28PM

Doltanian wrote: »

Filipinas are really the best type of immigrants we have received unlike many other welfare tourist, parasite and terror class we have received from other regions. Filipinas also bring a strong sense of family values and a great Christian morality and work ethic, the very fact that this murderer was shot dead by the Guards will resonate well within their culture where they have elected a strong leader who culled thousands in his war on corruption and drugs in Manila.

I'll agree with the bit about the qualities of Filipinas (being married to one) but the stuff about their great leader is nonsense:

He's a dictator who has sanctioned executions without trial and put the power to do that in the hands of one of the most corrupt police forces in the world (what could possibly go wrong there?).

He has had opponents arrested on trumped up charges just because they spoke out against his 'war on the poor', and is actively trying to shut down elements of the media.
He's also fond of making jokes about rape (including a particularly nasty gang-rape which resulted in the victim's throat being slashed open), just to give some idea of the kind of person he is.

His policies have not reduced crime or corruption in the Philippines. The only thing he seems to have achieved is managing to turn a third-world country into a fourth-world country.

I think you'll find that many Philippines natives are becoming tired of the idea of summary executions.

And just to clarify, I believe MH got what he deserved. I don't think there's any doubt about his guilt at this stage. But that's a totally different scenario to what's taking place in the Phils right now.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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