Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

DMcL1971 · 23-05-2018 10:51PM

I see the gofundme page for Jastine’s family is doing very well. Has there been one set up for the Hennessy family? Regardless of what he has done, he left a wife and two innocent children behind. They will have to live with the stigma and emotional scarring of what he has done for the rest of their lives.

Barry Badrinath · 23-05-2018 10:52PM

TomOnBoard wrote: »

Surely the casing being still! In the weapon could indicate that a revolver was used (which would not eject its casing) rather than an automatic. Im no expert, and I do NOT have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon. So perhaps Im wrong..

Thats actually a very good point, im sure some Detectives still use a revolver. That could be a moot point.

allthedoyles · 23-05-2018 10:55PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

So GSOC have confirmed that Mr. Hennessy was in the vehicle when he was shot.

GSOC will now assess what actions led to the Detective using his weapon. AFAIK, there have been three reported reasons by the media.

1. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he believed the victim was in the vehicle and under imminent mortal threat. Which turned out not to be the case.

2. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as a result of Mr. Hennessy threatening and lunging at an unarmed AGS member with a stanley knife. This is not the case as Mr. Hennessey was contained and shot in the vehicle.

3. The Detective shot Mr. Hennessy as he bent down in the footwell of the car, asessed as reaching for a firearm. This also turned out not to be the case.

Ultimately, the investigation may focus on the impact of the round, which has been reported as entering Mr. Hennessey's rear shoulder, which caused the fatality.

To most people it wont matter why he was shot as Mr. Hennessey's actions were deserving of that fate. The investigators may take a different view.

Interestingly, (if the media are correct) reports have indicated that the Detectives weapon had fired only one round and the spent casing of which was still in the weapon. This suggests that the empty casing of the round did not eject and would have prevented further subsequent shots to be fired. There is no evidence to suggest the Detective intended to engage Mr. Hennessey a second time as the Detective did not clear his weapon of the blockage. This in turn will raise other questions for the investigators, ones we dont want to acknowledge.

Like it or not, the investigators will remove all emotions from the case and scrutinise the Detectives actions, which is their function.

Now before I get lashed out of it here by obviously more knowledgeable internet folk. This is an impartial view and an angle which some might not be aware of or is not popular to acknowledge.

Firstly, I am not "anti-AGS", before some of you label me as it. I have no agenda and I have never been "done by de Gards".

Secondly, I have professionally worked alongside AGS in various roles over the years and know how professional, well trained and capable they are, I would wager many here have not.

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

Forthly, I actually have been in a situation where it was 50/50 whether or not to squeeze the trigger myself, unlike most here. So I am aware of what the Detective was facing and what was potentially going through his head.

Finally, this is the reality that the Detective now finds himself in. That squeeze of the trigger and him performing his duty is now under the microscope, it matters not what we think.

The questions GSOC will want answered are:

1. Why Mr. Hennessey was shot in the back in a contained environment which at that time, posed limited immediate threat to life outside of the vehicle. Will GSOC decide it was excessive use of force and disproportionate to the threat at the time?

2. Why did the Detective not clear and ready his weapon as trained, especially if he assessed that there was an immediate threat to life. This contradicts his actions in Para 1.

Im hoping scenario 3 above is the official AGS line. Hopefully the Detective can rest easy and the investigation is awarded in his favour. He performed his duty and shouldnt be penalised for it, despite reported inconsistencies in the event and any potential technicalities with the use of force.

I would hope it wont cause other members of the force to hessitate to act in the future.

Barry ,

Mr Hennessy was not shot in the back . He was shot in the shoulder and the official reason which is in the newspapers , is because he had a knife to his throat and was threatening to slice it .

23-05-2018 10:59PM

allthedoyles wrote: »

Barry ,

Mr Hennessy was not shot in the back . He was shot in the shoulder and the official reason which is in the newspapers , is because he had a knife to his throat and was threatening to slice it .

How would shooting him help in that situation?

I'd be cynical enough of whatever the press are writing yet, its too soon and the press will pretty much print anything, the GSOC report will be interesting.

McCrack · 23-05-2018 11:08PM

Barry Badrinath wrote: »

Thats actually a very good point, im sure some Detectives still use a revolver. That could be a moot point.

Im surprised you didnt consider that with your extensive knowledge and experience of firearms

Suckit · 23-05-2018 11:09PM

As Mark Hennessy had not been found guilty, nor any of the reasons the media gave for him being shot turn out to be the case, and assuming this information was all correct, would his family be entitled to compensation?
I know it it highly unlikely that they would dare even dream to look for it, but I was just wondering the legalities of it.

I have never questioned the Detective shooting him before, but the only one that seems really plausible to me, is that he was convinced she was still in the car and was in danger.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 23-05-2018 11:09PM

Thirdly, I have 20 years experience of weapons handling and extensive knowledge and assosciated nuances of when you can and cannot fire a weapon.

From the outset I've wondered could it be an ND, have you considered this scenario since (if the reports are true and accurate) sitting in the drivers seat of his vehicle would pose not threat to anyone.

Personally I don't care for the life of a violent murdering bastard, just wondering at the circumstances under which the prick was shot.

cagefactor · 23-05-2018 11:12PM

there will be something on the papers tomorrow about the online dating activity they have found of Hennessy, I'm sure it'll be sensationalist stuff like online dating is a crime now.

Sheeps · 23-05-2018 11:12PM

Ulises Juicy Vegetation wrote: »

From the outset I've wondered could it be an ND, have you considered this scenario since (if the reports are true and accurate) sitting in the drivers seat of his vehicle would pose not threat to anyone.

Personally I don't care for the life of a violent murdering bastard, just wondering at the circumstances under which the prick was shot.

Hope he was shot pleading for his life.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 23-05-2018 11:22PM

Sheeps wrote: »

Hope he was shot pleading for his life.

Honestly I couldn't give a toss for him, I just hope the detective is covered and not lynched.

I don't even know what sidearms our cops carry. But I'm guessing, and I'm assuming the report is accurate that it was a revolver in this case since the spent casing was still in the weapon.

If it was pistol and the firer got a jam there are immediate actions to be carried out by the firer to clear the obstruction and carry on firing (or prepare to carry on firing).

I've never trained with AGS, but if it was my own training/situation I'd carry out my immediate actions to clear the obstruction and either carry on firing or prepare to carry on firing.

I can't see a reasonable explanation when the weapon would be handed over to someone with a spent casing still in the chamber (in the event of the weapon being a pistol).

23-05-2018 11:25PM

Shoot, reassess.
If necessary, shoot again.
If threat no longer exists, then no more shots.

The firearm is handed over for examination as is.

P_1 · 23-05-2018 11:44PM

Chatting to a friend tonight, he was related to the killer. The family is in shock over this, nobody saw this happening. Keep them in your thoughts

pablo128 · 23-05-2018 11:49PM

For anyone saying he was no danger contained in the car, he could easily tried to run a Garda over. Good riddance to him anyway. The streets are a little safer now.

Esel · 23-05-2018 11:56PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Shoot, reassess.
If necessary, shoot again.
If threat no longer exists, then no more shots.

Do Gardaí not employ the double-tap technique then? Once you open fire, fire two shots, on the basis that two shots are more likely than one to end the threat.

delly · 24-05-2018 12:05AM

pablo128 wrote: »

For anyone saying he was no danger contained in the car, he could easily tried to run a Garda over. Good riddance to him anyway. The streets are a little safer now.

I was about to say the same thing, a car can be treated as a deadly weapon, just as much as a knife or a gun.

delly · 24-05-2018 12:09AM

Esel wrote: »

Do Gardaot employ the double-tap technique then? Once you open fire, fire two shots, on the basis that two shots are more likely than one to end the threat.

Double tap is a bit Hollywood, any modern police force will keep firing until the threat is no longer active. This can take 5, 6, 7 bullets, it's actually more common in the US, whereby people seem amazed that an officer can nearly empty a clip. There is a YouTube channel called 'Active Self Protection' that I started watching last year, and it changed my whole perception of firearms and how police have to operate when it comes to the use of deadly force.

Strazdas · 24-05-2018 12:10AM

delly wrote: »

I was about to say the same thing, a car can be treated as a deadly weapon, just as much as a knife or a gun.

Also, Gardai had no way of knowing what he had as a weapon or if Jastine was in the car too. He could have had a gun on the seat beside him for all they knew, they weren't sure what they were dealing with.

ED E · 24-05-2018 12:48AM

It was reported that the first member was traffic and the second that discharged was an armed member. Safe to assume a detective with sidearm in that case as ASU/RSU wouldn't be single crewed?

Deusexmachina · 24-05-2018 05:15AM

Sheeps wrote: »

Hope he was shot pleading for his life.

Really? You would like our police force to kill people why they plead for their lives?

Thankfully real life isn’t Grand Theft Auto.

Reati · 24-05-2018 06:27AM

Why is this thread going around in circles. Gsoc released a statement of what happen. Any chance people would read that and stop speculation.

A detective fired the shot (they are mostly all armed).
He fired a single shot.
It was aimed at the murders shoulder, where it hit.
The bullet hit his collar bone and deflected internal and hit an artory.
This caused the murderer to die shortly after.

He was correct to fire as the murderer was acting irrationally, armed with a knife, threatened himself and those on scene.

People can talk ****e all they want here but the Garda in question followed correct operating procedure to the tee and did the right thing in the situation. He has nothing to be guilty about and certainly doesn't deserve the uneducated criticism this thread has doled out.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 24-05-2018 06:43AM

Reati wrote: »

Why is this thread going around in circles. Gsoc released a statement of what happen. Any chance people would read that and stop speculation.

A detective fired the shot (they are mostly all armed).
He fired a single shot.
It was aimed at the murders shoulder, where it hit.
The bullet hit his collar bone and deflected internal and hit an artory.
This caused the murderer to die shortly after.

He was correct to fire as the murderer was acting irrationally, armed with a knife, threatened himself and those on scene.

People can talk ****e all they want here but the Garda in question followed correct operating procedure to the tee and did the right thing in the situation. He has nothing to be guilty about and certainly doesn't deserve the uneducated criticism this thread has doled out.

The vast majority of people here have no firearms training, never mind being armed in the course of their duty. So people are naturally curious.

Also some people don't like other humans being shot dead, this is natural too. Mostly I don't like it, but sometimes (like this chap) I couldn't give a toss and would only hope the cop's arse is covered.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-05-2018 07:04AM

How did he lunge at an unarmed traffic guard when he was sitting in his car?

fxotoole · 24-05-2018 07:10AM

Reati wrote: »

Why is this thread going around in circles.

Cos it’s boards. Threads go round in circles like a dog chasing its tail.

Fiend-Foe · 24-05-2018 07:44AM

Mahony0509 wrote: »

RIP to that young girl. Fair play to the Garda for downing that sick bastard.

Only pity is that's what he wanted, sounds like suicide by cop

tayto lover · 24-05-2018 07:49AM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

How did he lunge at an unarmed traffic guard when he was sitting in his car?

Who officially said that?
The Garda authorities never said that.

Captain Obvious · 24-05-2018 08:11AM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

How did he lunge at an unarmed traffic guard when he was sitting in his car?

I guess it's possible that he was being removed from the car when he produced the knife. I'm sure these questions will be answered in time.

Mantis Toboggan · 24-05-2018 08:26AM

Captain Obvious wrote: »

I guess it's possible that he was being removed from the car when he produced the knife. I'm sure these questions will be answered in time.

Yeah that's possible as I can't figure out how they saw the knife inside the car.

Green Peter · 24-05-2018 08:37AM

There are things called doors and you can open them to get out, you can open them and not get out or threaten to get out of them, you can also keep them closed. There are also windows that can be opened and knifes can be thrust out of these. It's a pity you weren't there as a security consultant that evening. Id bet you wouldnt be half as brave as you are behind your keyboard.

fergiesfolly · 24-05-2018 08:39AM

I know there's bound to be a morbid fascination with him and the crime he committed and may have committed previously, but I keep waiting to see or hear Jastines story.
Jastine was not just a victim, but a young woman in a new country, with hopes and dreams and a full life before he took it from her.
I googled Jastines name before posting here and all I got back were stories on her death and profiles on him. I do wish the media would give some focus to Jastines life before her kidnapping.
RIP Jastine. I hope your family find some peace in the support they've received.

Captain Obvious · 24-05-2018 08:39AM

Tyson Fury wrote: »

Yeah that's possible as I can't figure out how they saw the knife inside the car.

I said it before but I reckon the people who confronted him earlier may have given incorrect witness accounts.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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