Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 08:51PM

On a personal level, this really hit me. I'm not cold when it comes to news of and even detailed descriptions of murders, rape, and any other horrific events that are channelled to us through the media, but I don't allow myself to emotionally invest myself too much in them.
But this really really upset and horrified me.
Part of it was because we were following this sequence of events, helplessly, over the few days, with shock, fear, hope, anger and so much detail was being fed to us. I can't remember anything like how this LIVE event took over social media.

There are bodies found etc and details emerge gradually but you don't feel the range of emotions as you do when the case is still occuring, in live motion.

Also, and more importantly, with no shame in generalising I find the Filipino community in Ireland one of the loveliest communities and people to move to Ireland. I went on a few dates with a Filipino girl and still remain in contact with her (I even texted her yesterday assuming she knew of the horrific event and she was only off the plane from a holiday and had to call her father to confirm).

I find the Filipino people I have had interaction with to be so family orientated, full of so much empathy, good natured, cheerful, good listeners, hard working and with an amazing faith in both God and people around them.
I have been in and out of hospital over the years and you can see they love their job, are genuinely invested in helping the patient and not just going through a routine 9-5 like most of us (and indeed a lot of nurses.

That is why I can't imagine but can't help but thinking of the horror these people went through awaiting news, the weight of helplessness, the seeking of help by God, who plays a huge part in their everyday life, and more significantly the despair when hope faded into the horrific reality.

It really struck a cord with me and then my sadness turned to anger with some of the most disgusting and distasteful and disrespectful comments that emerged throughout the day. I can't believe how people can honestly think of posting some of the stuff.
Sick isn't the word.

I really haven't a clue how her family are going to cope with this. She was her parents only treasure, an only child. If she had siblings I feel that would help her parents grieve that tiny bit better but now they have to grow old not being able to abate the pain by projecting that parental support on another child. Christ, it is unimaginable. And living so close to where it all went down.

As I said though, they are a beautiful community (again I hold no shame generalising) so I think they will have so many support from those around them.

I amn't a God man but I hope their faith remains strong.

McMurphy · 22-05-2018 08:55PM

tigger123 wrote: »

How is it misleading? He telephoned his wife after he murdered her ... ???

The misleading headline initially makes you think it was immediately afterwards I think is the point.

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 08:55PM

tigger123 wrote: »

How is it misleading? He telephoned his wife after he murdered her ... ???

It is pretty clear they are trying to be "smart" with their headline. If you can't see the angle of the headline and their intention to somewhat mislead, you are likely the target market of these articles.

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 08:57PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The misleading headline initially makes you think it was immediately afterwards I think is the point.

precisely.

There is a massive difference between calling the wife on Saturday evening when he thought he would get away with it and on Sunday night in this case when he was aware the game was up and he was about to take his life.

tigger123 · 22-05-2018 08:57PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

It is pretty clear they are trying to be "smart" with their headline. If you can't see the angle of the headline and their intention to somewhat mislead, you are likely the target market of these articles.

A regular, every day Irish Times reader?

iamwhoiam · 22-05-2018 09:01PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The misleading headline initially makes you think it was immediately afterwards I think is the point.

Not to me . I read it as after the event there was no mention of immediately

TomOnBoard · 22-05-2018 09:03PM

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

The misleading headline initially makes you think it was immediately afterwards I think is the point.

Exactly so! The headline would have been far more accurate, but less sensational, if it said that he called 'before being shot..

VonLuck · 22-05-2018 09:04PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

precisely.

There is a massive difference between calling the wife on Saturday evening when he thought he would get away with it and on Sunday night in this case when he was aware the game was up and he was about to take his life.

I don't know how else they would phrase it. "Mark Hennessy telephones wife on Sunday" doesn't really work as a headline.

McMurphy · 22-05-2018 09:06PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Not to me . I read it as after the event there was no mention of immediately

That's fair enough, but I would like to believe that I'm not the only person who seen the headline and immediately presumed that it referred to immediately after he murdered the poor girl, not almost 24hrs later.

However, it's hardly worth arguing over. You read it one way, others read it another way.

Prob best left at that.

oneilla · 22-05-2018 09:10PM

AmberGold wrote: »

The way the Irish Times has handled the reporting of what is one of the leading news stories of the year leaves a lot to be desired.

I saw a screenshot of an IT article which stated that Jastine was alive when his car was found. Did anyone see this? Afaik it was edited sharpish

BattleCorp · 22-05-2018 09:11PM

oneilla wrote: »

I saw a screenshot of an IT article which stated that Jastine was alive when his car was found. Did anyone see this? Afaik it was edited sharpish

Even if someone saw this, it wasn't true.

chicorytip · 22-05-2018 09:16PM

Raging_Ninja wrote:

Threat to life is threat to life, regardless of whether it is one person attacking you or a thousand. If you or the life of another is immediate danger from another person (and being attacked with a knife is immediate danger, believe you me), then you can use lethal force to stop that threat.

I don't believe that claim would be upheld in a court of law in Ireland. Take a hypotethical situation: If I were accosted in a dark alley by a knife wielding drug addict intent on robbing me, removed my legally held revolver from my coat pocket and blew his brains out, what would the likely outcome be for myself? A first degree murder charge, that's what. All police forces should be entitled to use firearms in dangerous situations but, I strongly believe, in a proportionate manner to the level of risk involved.

ted1 · 22-05-2018 09:24PM

oneilla wrote: »

AmberGold wrote: »

The way the Irish Times has handled the reporting of what is one of the leading news stories of the year leaves a lot to be desired.

I saw a screenshot of an IT article which stated that Jastine was alive when his car was found. Did anyone see this? Afaik it was edited sharpish

Yes someone copied and pasted the article hete

TomOnBoard · 22-05-2018 09:27PM

oneilla wrote: »

I saw a screenshot of an IT article which stated that Jastine was alive when his car was found. Did anyone see this? Afaik it was edited sharpish

Yes, I saw it.

Buford T. Justice XIX · 22-05-2018 09:27PM

Big Nasty wrote: »

A woman is feared to have been abducted yesterday in broad daylight, just outside Enniskerry, Co. Wicklow. The same village where Annie McCarrick was last spotted. Frightening.

Gardai are appealing for information.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/missing-woman-24-feared-to-have-been-abducted-in-co-wicklow-1.3501945

Mod warning

This is a final warning.

Speculation of any kind is not allowed here. You can discuss articles, news reports or any factual aspect of the case. You can sympathise, you can ask why. Making up what ifs is not allowed

I did not think I would ever have to say this but ANYONE who disrespects Jastine Valdez in this thread is getting an immediate ban from this forum. Some of the crap I have had to read this morning has angered me more than anything I have read on this site before.

This poor girl has a family and friends. She was 24 years old and is being mourned. If people do not have respect then they are not welcome here.

For the majority who have posted in a respectful manner we thank you. Please report any posts that require moderator attention.

Mod note: Just reminding folk of the guidance in the OP.

'Seems' simply doesn't quality as a source. Cut out the speculation, there is enough to discuss with what is already known.

Posts with 'seems' all deleted now, next time will result in bans, is this clear?

Buford T. Justice

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 09:28PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Even if someone saw this, it wasn't true.

The IT initial report on Sunday night after the shooting (and it remained unedited for almost an hour) was that she was found in the car and was in "critical condition"
That is grossly wrong journalism. Especially when someone's family and close ones are hooked to any news filtering through and every second breeds a thousand thoughts. A life was on the line here. It was like some young lad with a football gawking over the fence at the crime scene told the journalist that he saw her body and they went with it.

The IT are reknowned to be obsessed at going gung ho into "breaking stories" and clearly took a lot of gambles with wrong information for the sake of being the first to break the news.

People gave out about RTE not giving minute by minute updates but RTE took the correct and responsible approach of waiting until confirmation of facts before releasing them.

DwightSchrute1 · 22-05-2018 09:28PM

chicorytip wrote: »

I don't believe that claim would be upheld in a court of law in Ireland. Take a hypotethical situation: If I were accosted in a dark alley by a knife wielding drug addict intent on robbing me, removed my legally held revolver from my coat pocket and blew his brains out, what would the likely outcome be for myself? A first degree murder charge, that's what. All police forces should be entitled to use firearms in dangerous situations but, I strongly believe, in a proportionate manner to the level of risk involved.

It’s very simple, there was a risk to the life of the unarmed Garda and that’s why the detective took the action that he did. Just because Mark Hennessy did not have a firearm does not mean the detective was in the wrong.

TomOnBoard · 22-05-2018 09:29PM

BattleCorp wrote: »

Even if someone saw this, it wasn't true.

Exactly! It wasn't true. And that's the point! It serves an another example of the IT failing to report the facts correctly..

Suckit · 22-05-2018 09:36PM

FWIW the IT were not the only ones reporting that. I think most sources had said the same. The journalists were all probably shouting at the Gardai at the same time and misheard that Mark Hennessy was critical.
Also, wasn't another version of the Detective shooting, that he thought she was in the car and that he was going to harm her?

kingofclay · 22-05-2018 09:40PM

The Talking Bread wrote: »

On a personal level, this really hit me. I'm not cold when it comes to news of and even detailed descriptions of murders, rape, and any other horrific events that are channelled to us through the media, but I don't allow myself to emotionally invest myself too much in them.
But this really really upset and horrified me.
Part of it was because we were following this sequence of events, helplessly, over the few days, with shock, fear, hope, anger and so much detail was being fed to us. I can't remember anything like how this LIVE event took over social media.

There are bodies found etc and details emerge gradually but you don't feel the range of emotions as you do when the case is still occuring, in live motion.

Also, and more importantly, with no shame in generalising I find the Filipino community in Ireland one of the loveliest communities and people to move to Ireland. I went on a few dates with a Filipino girl and still remain in contact with her (I even texted her yesterday assuming she knew of the horrific event and she was only off the plane from a holiday and had to call her father to confirm).

I find the Filipino people I have had interaction with to be so family orientated, full of so much empathy, good natured, cheerful, good listeners, hard working and with an amazing faith in both God and people around them.
I have been in and out of hospital over the years and you can see they love their job, are genuinely invested in helping the patient and not just going through a routine 9-5 like most of us (and indeed a lot of nurses.

That is why I can't imagine but can't help but thinking of the horror these people went through awaiting news, the weight of helplessness, the seeking of help by God, who plays a huge part in their everyday life, and more significantly the despair when hope faded into the horrific reality.

It really struck a cord with me and then my sadness turned to anger with some of the most disgusting and distasteful and disrespectful comments that emerged throughout the day. I can't believe how people can honestly think of posting some of the stuff.
Sick isn't the word.

I really haven't a clue how her family are going to cope with this. She was her parents only treasure, an only child. If she had siblings I feel that would help her parents grieve that tiny bit better but now they have to grow old not being able to abate the pain by projecting that parental support on another child. Christ, it is unimaginable. And living so close to where it all went down.

As I said though, they are a beautiful community (again I hold no shame generalising) so I think they will have so many support from those around them.

I amn't a God man but I hope their faith remains strong.

They are. I worked as a bartender a few years ago and they would routinely have celebrations in the place I bartended. They would always be so nice and make sure I got to try some of their food. When leaving they were always so thankful. On a Sunday I had to prepare the place for the following day when it would be a lot busier and if they had an event they would always have everyone helping out to get the place ready. There is clearly bad, unkind, rude Philipino people but in my experience they have been brilliant.

nc6000 · 22-05-2018 09:46PM

Suckit wrote: »

FWIW the IT were not the only ones reporting that. I think most sources had said the same. The journalists were all probably shouting at the Gardai at the same time and misheard that Mark Hennessy was critical.
Also, wasn't another version of the Detective shooting, that he thought she was in the car and that he was going to harm her?

This is usually the problem with "Breaking News" when these events occur. Items are reported as fact before they get properly checked.

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 09:47PM

kingofclay wrote: »

They are. I worked as a bartender a few years ago and they would routinely have celebrations in the place I bartended. They would always be so nice and make sure I got to try some of their food. When leaving they were always so thankful. On a Sunday I had to prepare the place for the following day when it would be a lot busier and if they had an event they would always have everyone helping out to get the place ready. There is clearly bad, unkind, rude Thai people but in my experience they have been brilliant.

I'm not sure what Thai people have to do with it. But I am assuming you meant Filipino, yeah?

But, yes, I agree with the rest.

EDIT: I see you edited it now!

kingofclay · 22-05-2018 09:49PM

Why is it Philippines but filipino as a nationality? :O I knew it looked wrong. And yeah, I brained that for a second.

iamwhoiam · 22-05-2018 09:54PM

The Filipino community have been a major asset in our health system . They are fantastic nurses and carers and it was a privilege to work with Filipino people

The Talking Bread · 22-05-2018 10:03PM

kingofclay wrote: »

Why is it Philippines but filipino as a nationality? :O I knew it looked wrong. And yeah, I brained that for a second.

Here is a but about why.

They are a really interesting country and the history of the Spanish invasion is so interesting. People are always surprised with the Spanish names they have

"The people of the Philippines are called Filipinos. Why not Philippinos?
The reason probably has something to do with the origin of the term Filipino. Whereas the islands have had the Spanish name Islas Filipinas ever since the 1540s, and this was obviously anglicized to Philippine Islands at an early date, the term Filipino was not used to describe the inhabitants until quite recently. It was first used for themselves in the 1880s by the urbanized rich of Spanish descent who were born in the islands ("principales") and the "creoles", who had less status than those born in Spain ("Peninsulares"). The indigenous inhabitants were termed "Indios" by the colonial elite. Filipino nationalism grew originally amongst the "ilustrados", "principales" and "creoles". Only with some reluctance, and largely as a result of the activities of working-class nationalists such as Andres Bonifacio in the 1890s, were the "Indios" included in the nationalist movement, and by the time of the insurrection of 1898 the term Filipino had come to be applied to all the inhabitants of the islands. The term would have become current in English through the Americans, who betrayed the Filipino revolution of 1898 and established their own colonial rule, but co-opted the 'Filipino' elite into the colonial system, promoting it through a policy of 'Filipinization'.
Philip Bowler, Abu Dhabi, UAE
The name of the islands goes back to the Spanish conquest in the 16th century, and hence there was time for the anglicisation of the spelling. The term 'Filipino' only goes back to the late 19th century, and the original spelling was perhaps kept because of its political connotation."

kingofclay · 22-05-2018 10:04PM

That's a good point about him just stepping out. However, by the looks of things he is only recently in a relationship. I think his wife is from Wales(based on reports) so maybe he only knows her a few years based on the age of the children. A psychologist was on Newstalk and said the fact he used that method of murder suggests he has done this before, a more instinctive 'natural' way would be to use a blunt object.

None of this makes sense. I can't believe that he was cruising around randomly on a late Saturday afternoon and just happened to stumble upon Jastine. It's frightening to think some girl could have been in his line of sight only for him to decide last minute to keep going. Sadly for Jastine, she was the one he went for.

STB. · 22-05-2018 10:08PM

Subtle wrote: »

Please note that the following comments are not intended to start a war but... am I the only one uncomfortable with this new fund-raising trend in these situations? I would be ok with it if there was a target set on day 1 of what was needed to help the family wrt funeral costs and so on, but it seems to be turning into a guilt money thing (as if to literally 'pay our respects').

There is no doubt that gofundme can be abused or set up for stupid and out of touch scenarios.

This is not such an scenario. Its an extraordinary scenario where an only child oiginally from a foreign country who came here to join her mother and father in a small village in Ireland only to be pulled into a vehicle and murdered and dumped in a secluded area by some headcase.

Its a chilling scenario that resonates with many parents and any sane person. It sends a clear message of support from the people of this country as well as the Filipino community here. It wont bring anyone back, but it was clearly set up in good faith with a fairly reasonable target. That the target has been greatly exceeded shows the level of support and outrage of Irish people.

Subtle wrote: »

Money will ultimately not bring any happiness to her family. Granted it will help in terms of funeral costs and getting relatives over here etc. but beyond that I'm not even sure how comfortable a family would be to accept or use the excess.

It could be said that its the least of their worries and none of your business.

22-05-2018 10:17PM

Suckit wrote: »

And then go out the same night, possibly within the same 30 minutes, and act normal! :mad::mad::mad::mad:

Is this even true? I've seen it written as Gospel a few times but what's the source?

strandroad · 22-05-2018 10:22PM

Omackeral wrote: »

Is this even true? I've seen it written as Gospel a few times but what's the source?

Reported in the media that he went out in Ballybrack on Saturday.
The video circulated online is older and taken elsewhere.

Gardaí are also investigating reports that Hennessy was socialising in a pub in the Ballybrack area on Saturday night.
It is believed he went drinking just hours after Ms Valdez's abduction.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/jastine-valdez-case-garda-reveal-new-details-of-mark-hennessys-movements-over-weekend-36935071.html

22-05-2018 10:25PM

Brazen scumbag.

Just would like to also say that I've had nothing but positive interactions with Filipino people when ever I've met them, whether on a personal or professional basis. Always very warm and gentle folks.

Jastine Valdez found dead. No Ana discussion please. Mod warning post 1

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