Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

Former Former · 29-03-2018 3:42pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A few hundred people that don't give a crap about rugby or already hate it.

Does it matter?? If you're a sponsor and you're seeing the trending on Twitter, you're seeing a load of people protesting on the street on a weekday afternoon, then you're going to ask yourself if you want your brand wrapped up in that.

Burkie1203 · 29-03-2018 3:45pm

Former Former wrote: »

Does it matter?? If you're a sponsor and you're seeing the trending on Twitter, you're seeing a load of people protesting on the street on a weekday afternoon, then you're going to ask yourself if you want your brand wrapped up in that.

Doesn't matter what the court verdict. The mob will win out.

I Think their careers will have to continue outside ireland. Don't agree with it but it's inevitable

RuMan · 29-03-2018 3:52pm

Former Former wrote: »

Does it matter?? If you're a sponsor and you're seeing the trending on Twitter, you're seeing a load of people protesting on the street on a weekday afternoon, then you're going to ask yourself if you want your brand wrapped up in that.

If i see Ruth Coppinger protesting against something i'm investing in it

jacothelad · 29-03-2018 3:55pm

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

Do you? I don't. Connor Murray and Simon Zebo's careers have gone from strength to strength.

Yes they have. They had the good fortune to have a video. I wonder would people be so sickeningly sanctimonious if a very, very high profile, multi capped, 6 Nations winner and GS winner was guilty of a horrendous assault causing serious injury to an innocent member of the public. Now would they have the same views that he should never play for his teams again or shirts will be burnt etc.

Let's have your answers.

Burkie1203 · 29-03-2018 4:13pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Yes they have. They had the good fortune to have a video. I wonder would people be so sickeningly sanctimonious if a very, very high profile, multi capped, 6 Nations winner and GS winner was guilty of a horrendous assault causing serious injury to an innocent member of the public. Now would they have the same views that he should never play for his teams again or shirts will be burnt etc.

Let's have your answers.

You can add in a high profile Dublin gaa player

Or a well known LOI player with a sexual assault conviction

Awesomeness · 29-03-2018 4:32pm

Burkie1203 wrote: »

You can add in a high profile Dublin gaa player

Or a well known LOI player with a sexual assault conviction

I don't know about the gaa player but that LOI player is a disgrace. I would stop following my team if he played for them without doubt

stephen_n · 29-03-2018 4:43pm

Yeah_Right wrote: »

A few hundred people that don't give a crap about rugby or already hate it.

That looks like more than a few hundred people, wether they like or dislike rugby is entirely irrelevant to Vodafone. They use mobile phones.

[IMG][/img]

prawnsambo · 29-03-2018 4:45pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Yes they have. They had the good fortune to have a video. I wonder would people be so sickeningly sanctimonious if a very, very high profile, multi capped, 6 Nations winner and GS winner was guilty of a horrendous assault causing serious injury to an innocent member of the public. Now would they have the same views that he should never play for his teams again or shirts will be burnt etc.

Let's have your answers.

Are you suggesting that this has happened? Because if not, it's just pointless, hypothetical whataboutery.

joseywhales · 29-03-2018 4:49pm

Look people will forget about the messages, it's the forensic evidence, which proves nothing and they have been aquitted, that will stick with them forever, particularly pj. They will receive abuse over that for the rest of their careers in Ireland. If pj wants to tough it out, at reduced wages under a shower of abuse then I think it's admirable and a show of great character but it's up to him and the irfu.

Awesomeness · 29-03-2018 4:53pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Yes they have. They had the good fortune to have a video. I wonder would people be so sickeningly sanctimonious if a very, very high profile, multi capped, 6 Nations winner and GS winner was guilty of a horrendous assault causing serious injury to an innocent member of the public. Now would they have the same views that he should never play for his teams again or shirts will be burnt etc.

Let's have your answers.

I would not be burning shirts but I probably would say they should not play again depending on the details. Is this something that happened that I missed? If so can you point me to a link and I will give you my honest opinion

Say what you want on whatsapp. No issue with that
Do what you want behind closed doors as long as its consensual . No issue with that

If people cant see the difference between the Zebo/Murray situation and this I think its hard to explain

jacothelad · 29-03-2018 5:00pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Are you suggesting that this has happened? Because if not, it's just pointless, hypothetical whataboutery.

Yes, it did happen. You mean you were not outraged?

jacothelad · 29-03-2018 5:01pm

Awesomeness wrote: »

I would not be burning shirts but I probably would say they should not play again depending on the details. Is this something that happened that I missed? If so can you point me to a link and I will give you my honest opinion

Say what you want on whatsapp. No issue with that
Do what you want behind closed doors as long as its consensual . No issue with that

If people cant see the difference between the Zebo/Murray situation and this I think its hard to explain

ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-rugby-star-admits-to-nightclub-assault-charge-26101953.html

RuMan · 29-03-2018 5:03pm

stephen_n wrote: »

That looks like more than a few hundred people, wether they like or dislike rugby is entirely irrelevant to Vodafone. They use mobile phones.

[IMG][/img]

So did the people who held Joan Burton prisoner.

jacothelad · 29-03-2018 5:06pm

RuMan wrote: »

So did the people who held Joan Burton prisoner.

I'm sure we could post hundreds of pictures of other ill-informed, sanctimonious, hate-fuelled mobs spewing their bile to make themselves feel just great and righteous.

Dubinusa · 29-03-2018 5:07pm

Zebo and Murray were not charged with rape. The female in that incident put it out on social media. She was willing and u can't rape the willing afaik.
Different scenario and circumstances. I fear the Ulster lads will have to leave.

Former Former · 29-03-2018 5:07pm

jacothelad wrote: »

ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-rugby-star-admits-to-nightclub-assault-charge-26101953.html

That is from 18 years ago. 18 years ffs. Horgan hadn't even played for Ireland at the time of the incident.

I'd point out that Horgan won neither a Grand Slam nor a Six Nations but that's the least of the issues with that nonsense

stephen_n · 29-03-2018 5:14pm

RuMan wrote: »

So did the people who held Joan Burton prisoner.

Nice hyperbole

prawnsambo · 29-03-2018 5:14pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Yes, it did happen. You mean you were not outraged?

Well that completely passed me by. And yes, it is outrageous. But it's still whataboutery. Is there some system that precludes you from being outraged about anything for perpetuity if you failed to be outraged about something else?

Awesomeness · 29-03-2018 5:20pm

jacothelad wrote: »

ttps://www.independent.ie/irish-news/top-rugby-star-admits-to-nightclub-assault-charge-26101953.html

Didn't know about that. Would like to know who threw the first punch and see some witness statements. Would have at least not selected him for a year or 2. And if he threw the first punch and was unprovoked I think its a disgrace he didn't do jail time.

But to give a couple of sporting examples of sports stars in sex situations and where my opinions would fall - nothing to do with the person/sport/team just on the situation and if they were playing for my team

Murray/Zebo - Everyone knew what they were doing. No harm
Ryan Giggs - Horrible person. Wouldn't want him as a mate but wouldn't care if he was on my team
PJ/SO - Definitely should have been found not guilty. Will never know what actually happened but from what I have seen would be uneasy cheering for them
Akinade - Cant really say what I think of him cos I will be banned but if he ever played for my time I would never attend a match again

hogandrew · 29-03-2018 5:26pm

Awesomeness wrote: »

Didn't know about that. Would like to know who threw the first punch and see some witness statements. Would have at least not selected him for a year or 2. And if he threw the first punch and was unprovoked I think its a disgrace he didn't do jail time.

But to give a couple of sporting examples of sports stars in sex situations and where my opinions would fall - nothing to do with the person/sport/team just on the situation and if they were playing for my team

Murray/Zebo - Everyone knew what they were doing. No harm
Ryan Giggs - Horrible person. Wouldn't want him as a mate but wouldn't care if he was on my team
PJ/SO - Definitely should have been found not guilty. Will never know what actually happened but from what I have seen would be uneasy cheering for them
Akinade - Cant really say what I think of him cos I will be banned

Johnny Evans might be a closer example. It must be the guts of 20 years ago but I think that there wasn't enough evidence to prosecute him and I've seen lots of people who believe this one shouldn't have went to trial either

Burkie1203 · 29-03-2018 7:09pm

Awesomeness wrote: »

I don't know about the gaa player but that LOI player is a disgrace. I would stop following my team if he played for them without doubt

Google Diarmuid Connolly McGowans.

Mebuntu · 29-03-2018 7:45pm

If important decisions are made based on the comments of the idiots that are on Twitter or Facebook then we are in a bad place.

bilston · 29-03-2018 8:11pm

When is the Glasgow game?

munsterlegend · 29-03-2018 8:20pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

If important decisions are made based on the comments of the idiots that are on Twitter or Facebook then we are in a bad place.

The IRFU and Ulster will make their decision in a few weeks when things have died down. It won't be based on twitter or Facebook but cold business reality. I can't see them playing for Ulster again or any Irish province which effectively ends their Irish career.

prawnsambo · 29-03-2018 8:21pm

Mebuntu wrote: »

If important decisions are made based on the comments of the idiots that are on Twitter or Facebook then we are in a bad place.

Commercial decisions have been based on the same kinds of thing since before the advent of Facebook and Twitter. The only difference is that now they have prior warning before people start walking away.

Former Former · 29-03-2018 8:22pm

bilston wrote: »

When is the Glasgow game?

Not soon enough

joseywhales · 29-03-2018 8:25pm

As a Leinster fan I'm looking at Ulster and all the negativity over the last 3 years and thinking, there but for the grace of God. On the upside it feels like you've hit the bottom and there's a great opportunity to get the structures in place to build a truly professional efficient transparent organisation with strong ethical culture and work ethic, given the resources and tradition around Ulster. That's something to be excited about

MJohnston · 29-03-2018 8:30pm

joseywhales wrote: »

As a Leinster fan I'm looking at Ulster and all the negativity over the last 3 years and thinking, there but for the grace of God. On the upside it feels like you've hit the bottom and there's a great opportunity to get the structures in place to build a truly professional efficient transparent organisation with strong ethical culture and work ethic, given the resources and tradition around Ulster. That's something to be excited about

Ulster haven't hit the bottom yet at all. They've still an opportunity to sink further if they, as seems likely, do nothing about the institutional structural problems in the club.

joseywhales · 29-03-2018 11:32pm

MJohnston wrote: »

joseywhales wrote: »

As a Leinster fan I'm looking at Ulster and all the negativity over the last 3 years and thinking, there but for the grace of God. On the upside it feels like you've hit the bottom and there's a great opportunity to get the structures in place to build a truly professional efficient transparent organisation with strong ethical culture and work ethic, given the resources and tradition around Ulster. That's something to be excited about

Ulster haven't hit the bottom yet at all. They've still an opportunity to sink further if they, as seems likely, do nothing about the institutional structural problems in the club.

What is required imo is a player driven environment, best and henderson with others should be putting their feet down and demanding a higher level, including coaching if that's what is required. There is no greater motivation for change than angry senior players who want the best for the club.
On the grass roots level, higher support for volunteerism and appreciation is a good start.

Ardillaun · 30-03-2018 3:27am

How much advice is given to players once they get on provincial teams? The change in status can disorientate some people as they become targets for all sorts of attention. I guess one can't be too paternalistic these days but a few sessions with sports figures who got into trouble and learned their lessons the hard way might be useful.

RuMan · 30-03-2018 3:28am

Ardillaun wrote: »

How much advice is given to players once they get on provincial teams? The change in status can disorientate some people as they become targets for all sorts of attention. I guess one can't be too paternalistic these days but a few sessions with sports figures who got into trouble and learned their lessons the hard way might be useful.

Anyway the Glasgow game?

Ardillaun · 30-03-2018 3:40am

Yes, indeed.

racso1975 · 30-03-2018 5:48am

Can someone tell me or pm me the murray/zebo thing. I've either blanked it never heard it!!

Squidgy Black · 30-03-2018 6:39am

racso1975 wrote: »

Can someone tell me or pm me the murray/zebo thing. I've either blanked it never heard it!!

They had sex with a young woman at the same time, it all came out in the media and she said she regretted it but there was a video of it proving consent.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-has-regrets-over-alleged-rugby-stars-tryst-29453848.html

launish116 · 30-03-2018 8:20am

Jack O'Connel signs for Ealing, You'd like to think Ulster had spoke with him. Not as if we're ripping tree's up at loose head.

MJohnston · 30-03-2018 8:26am

Ardillaun wrote: »

How much advice is given to players once they get on provincial teams? The change in status can disorientate some people as they become targets for all sorts of attention. I guess one can't be too paternalistic these days but a few sessions with sports figures who got into trouble and learned their lessons the hard way might be useful.

The problems start long before players reach provinces imo. Anyone who went to a rugby playing school (I did, and worse still it was all boys) will probably attest as I can to witnessing a very entitled and "lad" culture amongst players. Same thing with soccer tbh. Honestly thought that kind of attitude would have been coached out of professional players, but apparently not at Ulster anyway. Perhaps provides an extra insight into why some Ulster players have struggled to get into Ireland squads even though they seem to have the form to do so, though I have no reason to suspect that other than the good character displayed by Schmidt.

Buer · 30-03-2018 8:45am

launish116 wrote: »

Jack O'Connel signs for Ealing, You'd like to think Ulster had spoke with him. Not as if we're ripping tree's up at loose head.

Shame. He was gearing up to be a very decent loosehead but would have struggled at Leinster due to the presence of Healy and McGrath. I felt he should have gone to Ulster when leaving Dublin and would have earned a significant amount of game time.

It looks like he has gone backwards if anything now.

30-03-2018 8:47am

This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.

jr86 · 30-03-2018 8:50am

Hadassah CoolS Backside wrote: »

This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.

Agree

Hopefully it will change the way these cases are reported also. No twitter live updates, no reporting any of the evidence given in the courtroom till a verdict is reached

This was the case for the pre-hearings between September and December and as a result none of the SJW brigade had any idea about it until the rags started reporting the trial itself

Burkie1203 · 30-03-2018 8:55am

Hadassah CoolS Backside wrote: »

This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.

Within an hour of the trial verdict irfu announced jackson and Olding remained suspended pending a review

Now there is 30000 signatures on a petition imploring the IRFU to hold a review into the behaviour of jackson, Olding, McIlroy and harrison.

Goes to show you just how much attention people protesting the verdict actual pay to the actual details. They didnt even know two of them have nothing to do with the irfu

jr86 · 30-03-2018 8:57am

I wonder would McIlroy have tried to qualify to play for the US? I'm sure he still could if he returns? Was a very good under 20s player

30-03-2018 9:00am

jr86 wrote: »

Agree

Hopefully it will change the way these cases are reported also. No twitter live updates, no reporting any of the evidence given in the courtroom till a verdict is reached

This was the case for the pre-hearings between September and December and as a result none of the SJW brigade had any idea about it until the rags started reporting the trial itself

Well I'm nearly positive that the live twitter updates would have been forbidden in an Irish court, and that seems right to me.

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Within an hour of the trial verdict irfu announced jackson and Olding remained suspended pending a review

Now there is 30000 signatures on a petition imploring the IRFU to hold a review into the behaviour of jackson, Olding, McIlroy and harrison.

Goes to show you just how much attention people protesting the verdict actual pay to the actual details. They didnt even know two of them have nothing to do with the irfu

I know, absolutely desperate stuff. I'm sure people will believe the petition actually prompted the review as well. I've also been astonished that a very large number of people can't seem to get it through their head that this trial was conducted in the North, in Britain, and not in Ireland.

Buer · 30-03-2018 9:03am

jr86 wrote: »

I wonder would McIlroy have tried to qualify to play for the US? I'm sure he still could if he returns? Was a very good under 20s player

Pretty sure time spent as a student in a country doesn't contribute to residency. He'd be starting at square one.

foxyladyxx · 30-03-2018 9:04am

Hadassah CoolS Backside wrote: »

Well I'm nearly positive that the live twitter updates would have been forbidden in an Irish court, and that seems right to me.

I know, absolutely desperate stuff. I'm sure people will believe the petition actually prompted the review as well. I've also been astonished that a very large number of people can't seem to get it through their head that this trial was conducted in the North, in Britain, and not in Ireland.

Their identity would have been protected in an Irish court.

jr86 · 30-03-2018 9:05am

Buer wrote: »

Pretty sure time spent as a student in a country doesn't contribute to residency. He'd be starting at square one.

Ah right fair enough. Wasn't he living with AJ McGinty though? Was he on a student scholarship too or actually working there?

jr86 · 30-03-2018 9:07am

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Their identity would have been protected in an Irish court.

In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade

Guy:Incognito · 30-03-2018 9:12am

Mebuntu wrote: »

If important decisions are made based on the comments of the idiots that are on Twitter or Facebook then we are in a bad place.

Any of them of age can vote. That's a much worse proposition than anything affecting sport tbh.

foxyladyxx · 30-03-2018 9:14am

jr86 wrote: »

In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade

It is possible that details from the courtroom may never have been made public. .For sure McIlroy and Harrison would have been unknown.

MJohnston · 30-03-2018 9:18am

jr86 wrote: »

In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade

In using words like "mob", "bandwagoners", and "crusade" you're just belying your own attitude as being as equally emotional and angry-headed as the people you're insulting.

mfceiling · 30-03-2018 9:23am

MJohnston wrote: »

Honestly thought that kind of attitude would have been coached out of professional players, but apparently not at Ulster anyway. Perhaps provides an extra insight into why some Ulster players have struggled to get into Ireland squads even though they seem to have the form to do so

And so the actions of 2 players are enough to tar a whole squad with? Players like Gilroy, Cave etc have struggled to get into Ireland squads because of their attitude towards women? The bible group that was started by Paul Marshall, Trimble etc sit around discussing how they are "top shaggers".
Did Murray and Zebo have a good attitude when they decided to film themselves going at it with a young one (consensual I'm aware but the respect towards the girl in question was low).
The 2 lads haven't been convicted of a crime. Their messages were very bad form and their choice of language was disgusting but let's not cod ourselves that every rugby player in the Ireland squad has a phone full of pictures of fluffy cats and messages of love to their mums.

Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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