Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

foxyladyxx

Brewster wrote: »

It’s not that straight forward. Lots and lots to consider here, not least that Paddy Jackson is still the 2nd best out half in the country... I am not expecting any clarification for a number of weeks, just a hunch.

It is never going to happen sadly. . People are angry. .I mean REALLY angry. If they saw his name associated with the irish team in the future it would bring all sorts of unwanted attention and no sponsor would risk that.

Brewster

Stheno wrote: »

He hasnt played for almost two years

I don’t think he would have any issue getting get back up to speed quickly, however that’s the least of his worries now to be fair.

MJohnston

RuMan wrote: »

I suspect it bill depend on form. It will be extremely hard for Jacko to get back to the same level but if he does I would hope he will be selected.

I think that will have very, very little to do with it.

Stheno

MJohnston wrote: »

I think that will have very, very little to do with it.

I agree too much damage done

munsterlegend

Brewster wrote: »

It’s not that straight forward. Lots and lots to consider here, not least that Paddy Jackson is still the 2nd best out half in the country... I am not expecting any clarification for a number of weeks, just a hunch.

He was two years ago anyway. I wonder have they continued to train in the interim? I think the IRFU have to look at the bigger corporate picture and down south and I presume up north there is not a positive feeling in a lot of quarters about what came out in the trial despite the not guilty plea. I don't see this issue dying down if the players return either and I'd be very surprised should Jackson ever wear green again.

foxyladyxx

Brewster wrote: »

It’s not that straight forward. Lots and lots to consider here, not least that Paddy Jackson is still the 2nd best out half in the country... I am not expecting any clarification for a number of weeks, just a hunch.

The fact that he is the second best out half in the country means Jack **** now.

Brewster

foxyladyxx wrote: »

It is never going to happen sadly. . People are angry. .I mean REALLY angry. If they saw his name associated with the irish team in the future it would bring all sorts of unwanted attention and no sponsor would risk that.

Yeah, anger from people who believe McIlroy and Harrison shouldn’t play rugby again. Let’s keep some perspective here! What do the Irish rugby faithful think? This is much harder one to judge. All my acquaintances have no issue with him playing for Ireland again, most think it would be a disgrace, if he didn’t. I can’t speak for the Ulster rugby public, but I’d imagine a clear majority would be ok with it.

Brewster

foxyladyxx wrote: »

The fact that he is the second best out half in the country means Jack **** now.

I disagree. Has to be a consideration.

foxyladyxx

Brewster wrote: »

I disagree. Has to be a consideration.

Nope ..not one of the internationals has stood up for him. . They don't dare associate with him. .It would be bad for their image. The damage done is irrevocable. I am not sure that even an English side would take him now,

MJohnston

Brewster wrote: »

Yeah, anger from people who believe McIlroy and Harrison shouldn’t play rugby again. Let’s keep some perspective here! What do the Irish rugby faithful think? This is much harder one to judge. All my acquaintances have no issue with him playing for Ireland again, most think it would be a disgrace, if he didn’t. I can’t speak for the Ulster rugby public, but I’d imagine a clear majority would be ok with it.

I don't think you have perspective here tbh. You're relying on your own circle of friends to make assumptions about how the rest of everyone feels.

I'll also add that it doesn't have to be rugby fans who are angry - let's say hypothetically I was happy for them to return (I'm not, but let's pretend), I'd still feel completely uncomfortable now posting support for Ireland or Ulster on social media, or posting about going to matches, etc. It'll be even worse if IRFU or Ulster decide to back them.

You might think that's a minor thing, but it'll be looming large in the minds of IRFU decision makers.

Brewster

foxyladyxx wrote: »

Nope ..not one of the internationals has stood up for him. . They don't dare associate with him. .It would be bad for their image. The damage done is irrevocable. I am not sure that even an English side would take him now,

Are you expecting public statements from the players???

Neil3030

One rumour I've heard is:

PJ -> Bath
SO -> Exeter

munsterlegend

Brewster wrote: »

I disagree. Has to be a consideration.

There was considerable uproar with best and Henderson for just attending the trial. This is a toxic matter and rugby ability is not a major consideration. Yes things will die down as they always do but issuing further court proceedings in my view is adding further fuel to the fire.

Brewster

MJohnston wrote: »

I don't think you have perspective here tbh. You're relying on your own circle of friends to make assumptions about how the rest of everyone feels.

I'll also add that it doesn't have to be rugby fans who are angry - let's say hypothetically I was happy for them to return (I'm not, but let's pretend), I'd still feel completely uncomfortable now posting support for Ireland or Ulster on social media, or posting about going to matches, etc. It'll be even worse if IRFU or Ulster decide to back them.

You might think that's a minor thing, but it'll be looming large in the minds of IRFU decision makers.

I don’t have a true sense of how the Irish rugby public feel, the IRFU will only care about this, not the twitter mob. Very difficult to gauge this.....

MJohnston

Brewster wrote: »

I don’t have a true sense of how the Irish rugby public feel, the IRFU will only care about this, not the twitter mob. Very difficult to gauge this.....

The IRFU will care about their public image, not just among rugby fans. Honestly I don't see that as a debatable point at all.

bilston

Things will die down...but whether they die down enough is highly questionable.

And of course if they do return there will be significant anger (mainly from non rugby fans but that's probably not relevant).

Stheno

Brewster wrote: »

I don’t have a true sense of how the Irish public feel, the IRFU will only care about this, not the twitter mob. Very difficult to gauge this.....

Fyp its no longer about the rugby community

Brewster

There are people that hate rugby in this country who have jumped on the bandwagon. I doubt the IRFU is too concerned about them.

Burkie1203

Brewster wrote: »

I don’t have a true sense of how the Irish rugby public feel, the IRFU will only care about this, not the twitter mob. Very difficult to gauge this.....

The Twitter mob are going out on the streets and gaining a lot of media attention. 30000 people signing a petition online demanding the IRFU conduct a review even though they already announced they would be.

Jackson and Olding are finished for Ulster and Ireland.

prawnsambo

Brewster wrote: »

There are people that hate rugby in this country who have jumped on the bandwagon. I doubt the IRFU is too concerned about them.

I've seen tweets from Ulster supporters saying they'd walk away if they were reinstated. Also saw the text iof a letter that an Ulster supporter sent to UR expressing the same sentiments. This can't be neatly pigeon-holed into an anti-rugby box.

Zzippy

Brewster wrote: »

There are people that hate rugby in this country who have jumped on the bandwagon. I doubt the IRFU is too concerned about them.

There are many more who don't hate rugby but feel strongly about this case as an example of a broken system/misogny/etc. If enough of these people target sponsors the IRFU certainly will care. On the other hand, other cases have proven that this kind of thing does die down. Ched Evans is back playing Championship football in England, for instance.

MJohnston

Brewster wrote: »

There are people that hate rugby in this country who have jumped on the bandwagon. I doubt the IRFU is too concerned about them.

Sorry, but you're just attempting to diminish the amount of opposition for no real purpose (the opposition will still exist if you continue to deny it does). I love rugby, and to use your anecdotal style, I know plenty of people who are rugby fans in my circle of friends and family and they're very vocal about not wanting them back in an Irish team.

Former Former

Brewster wrote: »

There are people that hate rugby in this country who have jumped on the bandwagon. I doubt the IRFU is too concerned about them.

No doubt.

But there are thousands upon thousands of people who don't hate rugby who will go ballistic if either man plays for Ireland again.

It's easy to dismiss this as some fringe social media fauxtrage that will move on in a few days. It's not. There's no chance that we can simply wait this out.

Brewster

prawnsambo wrote: »

I've seen tweets from Ulster supporters saying they'd walk away if they were reinstated. Also saw the text iof a letter that an Ulster supporter sent to UR expressing the same sentiments. This can't be neatly pigeon-holed into an anti-rugby box.

I don’t deny that. Its quantifying the numbers is a harder thing. There is a strong conservative Christian fan base within the Ulster support, the behaviour of the lads may be a step too far for some of them. It’s also possible that these people will forgive Paddy and Stuart if they show some remorse for such disrespectful behaviour. It’s all conjuncture at this point.

munsterlegend

Zzippy wrote: »

There are many more who don't hate rugby but feel strongly about this case as an example of a broken system/misogny/etc. If enough of these people target sponsors the IRFU certainly will care. On the other hand, other cases have proven that this kind of thing does die down. Ched Evans is back playing Championship football in England, for instance.

England is not this island though and football is head and shoulders in both attendances, playing numbers and sponsorship above every other sport there unlike here where rugby is still a growing sport.

Brewster

Also, for the moment it’s all about playing for Ulster. Ireland is irrelevant. It could be while before Paddy would get back into an Ireland squad. Surely the initial discussion is all about Ulster? Perhaps some people are missing this point? One doesn’t give an entitlement to the other....

munsterlegend

Brewster wrote: »

Also, for the moment it’s all about playing for Ulster. Ireland is irrelevant. It could be while before Paddy would get back into an Ireland squad. Surely the initial discussion is all about Ulster? Perhaps some people are missing this point? One doesn’t give an entitlement to the other....

It all comes under the IRFU banner. The Ulster review into the players is being held jointly with the IRFU so this is not just an Ulster decision.

Former Former

Brewster wrote: »

Also, for the moment it’s all about playing for Ulster. Ireland is irrelevant. It could be while before Paddy would get back into an Ireland squad. Surely the initial discussion is all about Ulster? Perhaps some people are missing this point? One doesn’t give an entitlement to the other....

Ulster Rugby will be involved and consulted but IRFU are absolutely, 100%, unequivocally, without question, not even up for debate, the decision makers here.

Brewster

munsterlegend wrote: »

It all comes under the IRFU banner. The Ulster review into the players is being held jointly with the IRFU so this is not just an Ulster decision.

Of course, but my point remains valid. Big difference between playing for Ulster and Ireland....

Dog Botherer

If Ulster Rugby and the IRFU are smart they'll find a way to quietly move Jackson and Olding on, sooner rather than later. Their rugby careers in Ireland are finished (personally I'm not exactly upset by that, but that's neither here nor there). Anyone who thinks that Ulster or the IRFU will risk any sponsorship money over this toxic mess is deluded.

Ulster need to start shopping for a good fly half, and sharpish. If they can even attract one with the shambles that they're currently in, that is.