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Ulster Team Talk Thread III: Les Miserables SEE MOD WARNING POST #1924 + #2755

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    #2132
    RuMan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 469 ✭✭RuMan


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    How much advice is given to players once they get on provincial teams? The change in status can disorientate some people as they become targets for all sorts of attention. I guess one can't be too paternalistic these days but a few sessions with sports figures who got into trouble and learned their lessons the hard way might be useful.
    Anyway the Glasgow game?


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    #2133
    Ardillaun
    Registered Users Posts: 2,544 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Yes, indeed.


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    #2134
    racso1975
    Registered Users Posts: 5,273 ✭✭✭racso1975


    Can someone tell me or pm me the murray/zebo thing. I've either blanked it never heard it!!


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    #2135
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    racso1975 wrote: »
    Can someone tell me or pm me the murray/zebo thing. I've either blanked it never heard it!!

    They had sex with a young woman at the same time, it all came out in the media and she said she regretted it but there was a video of it proving consent.

    https://www.google.ie/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/woman-has-regrets-over-alleged-rugby-stars-tryst-29453848.html


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    #2136
    launish116
    Registered Users Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭launish116


    Jack O'Connel signs for Ealing, You'd like to think Ulster had spoke with him. Not as if we're ripping tree's up at loose head.


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    #2137
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    Ardillaun wrote: »
    How much advice is given to players once they get on provincial teams? The change in status can disorientate some people as they become targets for all sorts of attention. I guess one can't be too paternalistic these days but a few sessions with sports figures who got into trouble and learned their lessons the hard way might be useful.

    The problems start long before players reach provinces imo. Anyone who went to a rugby playing school (I did, and worse still it was all boys) will probably attest as I can to witnessing a very entitled and "lad" culture amongst players. Same thing with soccer tbh. Honestly thought that kind of attitude would have been coached out of professional players, but apparently not at Ulster anyway. Perhaps provides an extra insight into why some Ulster players have struggled to get into Ireland squads even though they seem to have the form to do so, though I have no reason to suspect that other than the good character displayed by Schmidt.


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    #2138
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,189 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    launish116 wrote: »
    Jack O'Connel signs for Ealing, You'd like to think Ulster had spoke with him. Not as if we're ripping tree's up at loose head.

    Shame. He was gearing up to be a very decent loosehead but would have struggled at Leinster due to the presence of Healy and McGrath. I felt he should have gone to Ulster when leaving Dublin and would have earned a significant amount of game time.

    It looks like he has gone backwards if anything now.


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    #2139
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.


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    #2140
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.

    Agree

    Hopefully it will change the way these cases are reported also. No twitter live updates, no reporting any of the evidence given in the courtroom till a verdict is reached

    This was the case for the pre-hearings between September and December and as a result none of the SJW brigade had any idea about it until the rags started reporting the trial itself


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    #2141
    Burkie1203
    Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    This whole situation is a total mess but I suppose if there's anything good to come of it, if you can look beyond all the wailing on twitter, it's kicked off a proper discussion on consent. There's been some excellent stuff on Off The Ball, Second Captains, and I'm sure elsewhere too. Just hopefully it doesn't get lost in all the noise.

    Within an hour of the trial verdict irfu announced jackson and Olding remained suspended pending a review

    Now there is 30000 signatures on a petition imploring the IRFU to hold a review into the behaviour of jackson, Olding, McIlroy and harrison.

    Goes to show you just how much attention people protesting the verdict actual pay to the actual details. They didnt even know two of them have nothing to do with the irfu


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    #2142
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    I wonder would McIlroy have tried to qualify to play for the US? I'm sure he still could if he returns? Was a very good under 20s player


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    #2143
    Interested Observer
    Registered Users Posts: 13,021 ✭✭✭✭Interested Observer


    jr86 wrote: »
    Agree

    Hopefully it will change the way these cases are reported also. No twitter live updates, no reporting any of the evidence given in the courtroom till a verdict is reached

    This was the case for the pre-hearings between September and December and as a result none of the SJW brigade had any idea about it until the rags started reporting the trial itself

    Well I'm nearly positive that the live twitter updates would have been forbidden in an Irish court, and that seems right to me.
    Burkie1203 wrote: »
    Within an hour of the trial verdict irfu announced jackson and Olding remained suspended pending a review

    Now there is 30000 signatures on a petition imploring the IRFU to hold a review into the behaviour of jackson, Olding, McIlroy and harrison.

    Goes to show you just how much attention people protesting the verdict actual pay to the actual details. They didnt even know two of them have nothing to do with the irfu

    I know, absolutely desperate stuff. I'm sure people will believe the petition actually prompted the review as well. I've also been astonished that a very large number of people can't seem to get it through their head that this trial was conducted in the North, in Britain, and not in Ireland.


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    #2144
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,189 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    jr86 wrote: »
    I wonder would McIlroy have tried to qualify to play for the US? I'm sure he still could if he returns? Was a very good under 20s player
    Pretty sure time spent as a student in a country doesn't contribute to residency. He'd be starting at square one.


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    #2145
    foxyladyxx
    Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    Interested Observer wrote: »
    Well I'm nearly positive that the live twitter updates would have been forbidden in an Irish court, and that seems right to me.



    I know, absolutely desperate stuff. I'm sure people will believe the petition actually prompted the review as well. I've also been astonished that a very large number of people can't seem to get it through their head that this trial was conducted in the North, in Britain, and not in Ireland.

    Their identity would have been protected in an Irish court.


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    #2146
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    Buer wrote: »
    Pretty sure time spent as a student in a country doesn't contribute to residency. He'd be starting at square one.

    Ah right fair enough. Wasn't he living with AJ McGinty though? Was he on a student scholarship too or actually working there?


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    #2147
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    foxyladyxx wrote: »
    Their identity would have been protected in an Irish court.

    In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

    Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

    There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade


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    #2148
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Mebuntu wrote: »
    If important decisions are made based on the comments of the idiots that are on Twitter or Facebook then we are in a bad place.

    Any of them of age can vote. That's a much worse proposition than anything affecting sport tbh.


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    #2149
    foxyladyxx
    Registered Users Posts: 853 ✭✭✭foxyladyxx


    jr86 wrote: »
    In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

    Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

    There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade

    It is possible that details from the courtroom may never have been made public. .For sure McIlroy and Harrison would have been unknown.


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    #2150
    MJohnston
    Registered Users Posts: 10,534 ✭✭✭✭MJohnston


    jr86 wrote: »
    In fairness, it would have been fairly obvious they were facing trial when stood down by the IRFU

    Maybe McIlroy and Harrison would still be anonymous

    There wasn't a word in the build up during the pre-hearings from the mob, and even when Olding got acquitted of Vaginal rape in December no-one took notice, yet when the live reports and updates started from the crown court the bandwagoners took notice and began their crusade

    In using words like "mob", "bandwagoners", and "crusade" you're just belying your own attitude as being as equally emotional and angry-headed as the people you're insulting.


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    #2151
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,788 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Honestly thought that kind of attitude would have been coached out of professional players, but apparently not at Ulster anyway. Perhaps provides an extra insight into why some Ulster players have struggled to get into Ireland squads even though they seem to have the form to do so

    And so the actions of 2 players are enough to tar a whole squad with? Players like Gilroy, Cave etc have struggled to get into Ireland squads because of their attitude towards women? The bible group that was started by Paul Marshall, Trimble etc sit around discussing how they are "top shaggers".
    Did Murray and Zebo have a good attitude when they decided to film themselves going at it with a young one (consensual I'm aware but the respect towards the girl in question was low).
    The 2 lads haven't been convicted of a crime. Their messages were very bad form and their choice of language was disgusting but let's not cod ourselves that every rugby player in the Ireland squad has a phone full of pictures of fluffy cats and messages of love to their mums.


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    #2152
    jr86
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭jr86


    mfceiling wrote: »
    And so the actions of 2 players are enough to tar a whole squad with? Players like Gilroy, Cave etc have struggled to get into Ireland squads because of their attitude towards women? The bible group that was started by Paul Marshall, Trimble etc sit around discussing how they are "top shaggers".
    Did Murray and Zebo have a good attitude when they decided to film themselves going at it with a young one (consensual I'm aware but the respect towards the girl in question was low).
    The 2 lads haven't been convicted of a crime. Their messages were very bad form and their choice of language was disgusting but let's not cod ourselves that every rugby player in the Ireland squad has a phone full of pictures of fluffy cats and messages of love to their mums.

    Fully agree with your overall sentiments, but Jackson sent two messages in that long timeline joe.ie produced

    "There was a lot of spit" and the other was about the Northern Ireland team being out the night before


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    #2153
    sydthebeat
    Subscribers Posts: 41,113 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    ive a big issue with the transcripts of the texts and whats app.

    none that ive seen have the emojiis included, and they are a HUGE indicator of the tone of a text.


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    #2154
    bilston
    Registered Users Posts: 17,758 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    jr86 wrote: »
    mfceiling wrote: »
    And so the actions of 2 players are enough to tar a whole squad with? Players like Gilroy, Cave etc have struggled to get into Ireland squads because of their attitude towards women? The bible group that was started by Paul Marshall, Trimble etc sit around discussing how they are "top shaggers".
    Did Murray and Zebo have a good attitude when they decided to film themselves going at it with a young one (consensual I'm aware but the respect towards the girl in question was low).
    The 2 lads haven't been convicted of a crime. Their messages were very bad form and their choice of language was disgusting but let's not cod ourselves that every rugby player in the Ireland squad has a phone full of pictures of fluffy cats and messages of love to their mums.

    Fully agree with your overall sentiments, but Jackson sent two messages in that long timeline joe.ie produced

    "There was a lot of spit" and the other was about the Northern Ireland team being out the night before

    Yeah this has been completely lost in the aftermath that Jackson had very little input into the WhatsApp messages.


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    #2155
    Buer
    Registered Users Posts: 24,189 ✭✭✭✭Buer


    Yeah this has been completely lost in the aftermath that Jackson had very little input into the WhatsApp messages.
    Frankly, I doubt that makes any difference to those who are up in arms. This is a hysterical, social media driven reaction. Facts and logic are going to be for removed from the process.


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    #2156
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,254 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Buer wrote: »
    Frankly, I doubt that makes any difference to those who are up in arms. This is a hysterical, social media driven reaction. Facts and logic are going to be for removed from the process.
    Standing back a bit from it, there are a number of issues that have arisen from this. Firstly the lack of anonymity for the accused, something that happens here. Then there's the abysmally low conviction rate in rape cases. This case has just highlighted some of these issues and if you asked people what they were up in arms about, you could take your pick of a number of issues that are definitely worrying.

    And of course you'd get a fair cross-section of uninformed opionions. Like you'd get anywhere tbh.


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    #2157
    launish116
    Registered Users Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭launish116


    Buer wrote: »
    launish116 wrote: »
    Jack O'Connel signs for Ealing, You'd like to think Ulster had spoke with him. Not as if we're ripping tree's up at loose head.

    Shame. He was gearing up to be a very decent loosehead but would have struggled at Leinster due to the presence of Healy and McGrath. I felt he should have gone to Ulster when leaving Dublin and would have earned a significant amount of game time.

    It looks like he has gone backwards if anything now.

    Real shame! He has been getting a good 30 mins a game. But benching behind Tonga Uiha. Would of been an upgrade, missing signings like this crack me up! Think Connacht had approached him, but opted for going to Ealing.


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    #2158
    joseywhales
    Registered Users Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭joseywhales


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    Buer wrote: »
    Frankly, I doubt that makes any difference to those who are up in arms. This is a hysterical, social media driven reaction. Facts and logic are going to be for removed from the process.
    Standing back a bit from it, there are a number of issues that have arisen from this. Firstly the lack of anonymity for the accused, something that happens here. Then there's the abysmally low conviction rate in rape cases. This case has just highlighted some of these issues and if you asked people what they were up in arms about, you could take your pick of a number of issues that are definitely worrying.

    And of course you'd get a fair cross-section of uninformed opionions. Like you'd get anywhere tbh.

    My only gripe with the whole thing which we can't really elaborate on here, is what exactly constitutes forensic evidence of non consent?

    People are too polarized now for a rational debate on that.

    I think the WhatsApp thing is just being used as a straw man. My sample size of admittedly about 6 women are concerned about the forensic evidence.


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    #2159
    Clegg
    Registered Users Posts: 16,780 ✭✭✭✭Clegg


    Will Addison has signed for ye.

    Plays in the backs for Sale Sharks and is already Irish qualified.


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    #2160
    launish116
    Registered Users Posts: 2,437 ✭✭✭launish116


    Will Addison signed from Sale


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    #2161
    Squidgy Black
    Registered Users Posts: 21,609 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Great signing, he wasn't too far off getting an England call up in 2016, and is a great placekicker too. Club captain this season also.


This discussion has been closed.
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