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N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

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Comments

  • #402
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    marno21 wrote: »
    Very interesting. Could you give a bit more specific information on which parts of Waterford/Limerick you're going to/coming from?

    City near Outer ring road to Castletroy area. I stay on M7 til N24 junction and then Groody road.......

    M9 and M7 is safer and less stressful on man and car!


  • #403
    NedNew2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭NedNew2


    Minister wrote: »
    City near Outer ring road to Castletroy area. I stay on M7 til N24 junction and then Groody road.......

    M9 and M7 is safer and less stressful on man and car!

    Some people still use miles?

    From Google, 80 miles = 130 km


  • #404
    BelfastVanMan
    Registered Users Posts: 667 ✭✭✭BelfastVanMan


    NedNew2 wrote: »
    Minister wrote: »
    City near Outer ring road to Castletroy area. I stay on M7 til N24 junction and then Groody road.......

    M9 and M7 is safer and less stressful on man and car!

    Some people still use miles?

    From Google, 80 miles = 130 km


    81 miles = 130 km ;-)


  • #405
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    marno21 wrote: »
    Very interesting. Could you give a bit more specific information on which parts of Waterford/Limerick you're going to/coming from?
    NedNew2 wrote: »
    Some people still use miles?

    Yes. Some of us do. Now back to the topic. Thank you.

    Oh, and eh, 80 miles = 128.748 kilometres - to be precise.........


  • #406
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    That's crazy alright. Shame a lot of the N77 and Durrow to the M7 are still such bad roads. No worse than the N24 mind


  • #407
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    road_high wrote: »
    That's crazy alright. Shame a lot of the N77 and Durrow to the M7 are still such bad roads. No worse than the N24 mind

    You're right! However, N77 & Durrow/M7 traffic is lighter and there are less trucks who, by virtue of the N24 road layout etc, must,correctly, drive carefully - average 35mph or 56.327 Kmh ;) <see earlier>.


  • #408
    Middle Man
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,142 ✭✭✭Middle Man


    The thing is that Ireland thinks it can sit back and relax, just because it has managed to build a very basic motorway system (belatedly that is). Thing is, we are still 30 years behind everyone else in terms of infrastructure and if we don't seriously invest in projects like Dublin's DART Inter-connector and the M20 Cork to Limerick as well as the N24 (perhaps Clonmel to Cahir section as motorway), we will once again find ourselves as the laughing stock of Europe. If the powers that be seriously think cycling infrastructure is going to get us back on track... :pac::pac::pac:

    Also, with Brexit and possible increased traffic via Rosslare, a reopening of the Waterford to Rosslare line as a freight route could be looked at. At minimum, an entire upgrade of the N24 needs to be prioritised - nothing less than DT-2.


  • #409
    lucernarian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Middle Man wrote: »
    The thing is that Ireland thinks it can sit back and relax, just because it has managed to build a very basic motorway system (belatedly that is). Thing is, we are still 30 years behind everyone else in terms of infrastructure and if we don't seriously invest in projects like Dublin's DART Inter-connector and the M20 Cork to Limerick as well as the N24 (perhaps Clonmel to Cahir section as motorway), we will once again find ourselves as the laughing stock of Europe. If the powers that be seriously think cycling infrastructure is going to get us back on track... :pac::pac::pac:

    Also, with Brexit and possible increased traffic via Rosslare, a reopening of the Waterford to Rosslare line as a freight route could be looked at. At minimum, an entire upgrade of the N24 needs to be prioritised - nothing less than DT-2.
    There's a pittance being spent on cycling infrastructure as it is, I suspect the bigger problem lies with political priorities like Christmas welfare bonuses and providing free of charge yet metered water.


  • #410
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Only place that warrants a by-pass is Tipp town, it's the only place that's a nightmare to get through.

    The opening of the Tipp town plaza doesn't exactly inspire confidence that this will happen though.

    Clonmel takes a flipping age to get through at times, mainly due to an endless parade of roundabouts along the N24. Amazing how they slow everything if there are HGV's ahead of you.


  • #411
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Clonmel takes a flipping age to get through at times, mainly due to an endless parade of roundabouts along the N24. Amazing how they slow everything if there are HGV's ahead of you.
    There was a planned Clonmel Outer Bypass from Rathkeevin to the N24/N76 junction but it was canned in 2011 by Varadkar. Now has to start from scratch.

    If N24 has to start from scratch I hope the schemes are rather large to be put through the planning process. Build away in smaller bits but get them PP first. Perhaps Ballysimon-Pallasgreen, Pallasgreen-Cahir, Cahir-N76 junction, N76 junction-Piltown BP, Piltown BP-Grannagh

    Cahir BP & Piltown BP need 2+2 treatment too, especially Piltown BP with the dangerous junctions.


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  • #412
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/250566/cash-confirmed-for-interim-safety-works-on-piltown-s-n24-tower-road-junction.html

    Works to begin on the Tower Rd junction at Piltown.

    The best way forward for this section of the N24 is just to rip up the barrier and return it to single carriageway. Having the median is only causing more trouble than it's worth. This type of cross section is not suitable for 2+1 treatment.


  • #413
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Mattie McGrath wants the entire N24 replaced by motorway which he has costed at €940m.

    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/home/261019/upgrade-of-n24-is-top-of-the-agenda-for-tipperary-delegation-to-minister-ross-mattie-mcgrath.html


  • #414
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    Awful traffic through Tipp Town today, although not surprising. Even a road to avoid that main street would be brilliant!


  • #415
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    Awful traffic through Tipp Town today, although not surprising. Even a road to avoid that main street would be brilliant!
    TII are advancing a pipeline scheme of N24 dual carriageway from Limerick Junction to Cahir incorporating bypasses of Tipperary town and Bansha; thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256


  • #416
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII are advancing a pipeline scheme of N24 dual carriageway from Limerick Junction to Cahir incorporating bypasses of Tipperary town and Bansha; thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256

    Years away though sadly!


  • #417
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    marno21 wrote: »
    TII are advancing a pipeline scheme of N24 dual carriageway from Limerick Junction to Cahir incorporating bypasses of Tipperary town and Bansha; thread here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256

    It isn't a government priority and increasingly not a priority for the Thurles based Council. The only way Tipp Town is getting bypassed is if they can find a way to run it between Thurles and Nenagh.


  • #418
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    marno21 wrote: »
    Mattie McGrath wants the entire N24 replaced by motorway which he has costed at €940m.

    http://www.tipperarystar.ie/news/home/261019/upgrade-of-n24-is-top-of-the-agenda-for-tipperary-delegation-to-minister-ross-mattie-mcgrath.html

    First thing I've ever agreed with Mattie on. Upgrade the lot to motorway and be done with it forever.
    Though I'm quite surprised, I thought he'd be anti this going through people's land or something


  • #419
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    touts wrote: »
    It isn't a government priority and increasingly not a priority for the Thurles based Council. The only way Tipp Town is getting bypassed is if they can find a way to run it between Thurles and Nenagh.

    I think Tipperary co council is based in Clonmel and Nenagh?


  • #420
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Hiving off the political environment to the politics board makes no sense as it means context is removed from the discussion.


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  • #421
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Hiving off the political environment to the politics board makes no sense as it means context is removed from the discussion.

    Exactly. Funding priorities are political and directly relevant to the discussion of the N24 and other roads finding. I can't for the life of me see why that should solely be the preserve of the Politics forum


  • #422
    Sam Russell
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 19,862 Mod ✭✭✭✭Sam Russell


    Mod: I have deleted posts relating to Social Welfare as off topic, plus warnings about those posts being off topic. Obviously infrastructure is a political issue that can be discussed, but straying into other areas like social welfare and those who receive it should be done elsewhere. I did not mean to curtail discussion of road provision or funding of that provision.


  • #423
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    I wonder what are the chances of upgrading whole of N24 to Motorway from Waterford (as an alternative for upgrade of N25 Waterford to Cork) as then you would have a less stressful Waterford to Cork journey - on both driver and vehicle - in about the same journey time. Long term would it be most economically efficient?

    One big issue would be the re-engineering of the Dunkettle roundabout to cope with the additional traffic from Limerick and Waterford etc.


  • #424
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Looks like dual c. upgrades are on the cards for both of those routes, and not end to end.

    The new Dunkettle junction will already need to handle a lot of traffic coming from the Waterford direction as present traffic levels generated by Glounthane, Midleton etc. are presently very high.


  • #425
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    That's correct. But I wonder if it would make more sense (financial and road safety) to have all N24 to high quality D C or M Way standard thereby having greater and safer national interconnectivity?

    ........But then when did many of those employed in the public sector exercise common sense on infrastructure projects?


  • #426
    spacetweek
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 5,144 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Minister wrote: »
    ........But then when did many of those employed in the public sector exercise common sense on infrastructure projects?

    OK! How about you find them the required budget for a motorway that long for a not-so-major scheme?


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  • #427
    Paddico
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,102 ✭✭✭Paddico


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Minister wrote: »
    ........But then when did many of those employed in the public sector exercise common sense on infrastructure projects?

    OK! How about you find them the required budget for a motorway that long for a not-so-major scheme?

    In comparison to what. Have you driven this route lately?


  • #428
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    On it this morning and worse it is getting!! Average speed is 33mph on a major route linking two important cities. Grrrr......


  • #429
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    Minister wrote: »
    On it this morning and worse it is getting!! Average speed is 33mph on a major route linking two important cities. Grrrr......

    Important to us but sadly not to the Government.


  • #430
    NedNew2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 386 ✭✭NedNew2


    Minister wrote: »
    On it this morning and worse it is getting!! Average speed is 33mph on a major route linking two important cities. Grrrr......

    That's 55 kph in modern terms. Pretty slow alright.


  • #431
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Bumping for the laugh. Any news?


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  • #432
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Bumping for the laugh. Any news?

    No, still an unfunny 48 to 55km average speed in morning or evening times.


  • #433
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Bumping for the laugh. Any news?

    I thought I saw something in the Capital expenditure Plan for Limerick to Cahir section?


  • #434
    AugustusMinimus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,561 ✭✭✭AugustusMinimus


    road_high wrote: »
    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Bumping for the laugh. Any news?

    I thought I saw something in the Capital expenditure Plan for Limerick to Cahir section?

    Tipp Town to Cahir I believe.

    This routes needs to be 2+2 minimum.


  • #435
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    AugustusMinimus wrote: »
    Tipp Town to Cahir I believe.

    This routes needs to be 2+2 minimum.

    The whole way from Grannagh roundabout to Limerick should be, especially as the rail line is not operative at convenient times for commuters and no longer used for freight.


  • #436
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,474 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    Minister wrote: »
    The whole way from Grannagh roundabout to Limerick should be, especially as the rail line is not operative at convenient times for commuters and no longer used for freight.

    The road is not too bad through south Kilkenny even though the Piltown has had major safety issues. It's dreadful most of the way through Tipp, best (lest worst section) probably Clonmel-Cahir. After that it descends into third world standard.


  • #437
    Minister
    Closed Accounts Posts: 444 ✭✭Minister


    road_high wrote: »
    The road is not too bad through south Kilkenny even though the Piltown has had major safety issues. It's dreadful most of the way through Tipp, best (lest worst section) probably Clonmel-Cahir. After that it descends into third world standard.

    I don't know, I think that from quarry roundabout to the 2+1 is wide but slow as it is seldom there is an opportunity for overtaking; likewise from Carrick to Cahir 2 + 1. It can take up to 75 minutes from Waterford bridge to end of Cahir 2+1 - depending on traffic and trucks/slow drivers etc. Hence why I believe it should be 2+2/D C standard.


  • #438
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    TII are planning on progressing a section of dual carriageway from Limerick Junction to Cahir encompassing bypasses of Limerick Junction, Monard, Tipperary Town and Bansha.

    This will, if funded, progress to route selection and design and should be ready to start around 2022.

    The rest of the project remains suspended.

    Thread on the new N24 scheme here: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256


  • #439
    Magnum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 687 ✭✭✭Magnum


    Maybe some good news for the N24

    http://www.nationalist.ie/news/motoring-news/288571/welcome-for-13-million-roads-funding-for-tipperary.html


  • #440
    touts
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,536 ✭✭✭touts


    Magnum wrote: »
    Maybe some good news for the N24

    http://www.nationalist.ie/news/motoring-news/288571/welcome-for-13-million-roads-funding-for-tipperary.html

    Just fixing potholes and crumbling footpaths. Needs to be done (especially the center of Tipp Town which is starting to look like a set from the walking dead) but isn't solving the main problems on the route.


  • #441
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    touts wrote: »
    Just fixing potholes and crumbling footpaths. Needs to be done (especially the center of Tipp Town which is starting to look like a set from the walking dead) but isn't solving the main problems on the route.
    TII are to start planning work on a new section of the N24 between Limerick Junction and Cahir, thread here: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256

    This will not start construction before 2023 at the absolute earliest.


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  • #442
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    For all thread followers:

    Two schemes have been activated on the N24 by TII:

    Cahir-Limerick Junction: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057760256
    Cahir-Waterford: https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057826819

    Please discuss these stretches in their threads, as this thread will likely be locked. The N24 within Limerick is not being upgraded for the forseeable future.


  • #443
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    While the road between Limerick and LJ does have a significant portion with wide hard shoulders, is there a significantly lower traffic volume on the road there that renders a DC unneeded?


  • #444
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    While the road between Limerick and LJ does have a significant portion with wide hard shoulders, is there a significantly lower traffic volume on the road there that renders a DC unneeded?

    No, in fact the Limerick section would be busier than a lot of the road through Tipperary

    Most likely, we are getting Limerick Junction to Waterford because:

    * LJ-Cahir is the worst stretch of the route
    *Clonmel needs a second bypass
    *Bypasses for Carrick and Mooncoin
    *Tipp and South KK politicians shouting louder


  • #445
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    One would assume that if you were building the majority of the road, you'd just build the whole road.

    Logic evades us sometimes in Ireland though!


  • #446
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    One would assume that if you were building the majority of the road, you'd just build the whole road.

    Logic evades us sometimes in Ireland though!

    N24 through Limerick can be down down the road. Limerick is already getting the M20, M21, and 2 town bypasses in the near future

    6 months ago the N24 was completely off the table. Now 90km of it is being progressed. A fairly decent jump to be fair


  • #447
    JCX BXC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,227 ✭✭✭✭JCX BXC


    marno21 wrote: »
    N24 through Limerick can be down down the road. Limerick is already getting the M20, M21, and 2 town bypasses in the near future

    6 months ago the N24 was completely off the table. Now 90km of it is being progressed. A fairly decent jump to be fair

    I don't subscribe to this idea of "Limericks getting x, y and z so it shouldn't get w", I think it's very representative of the parish ideology that we need to get away from. If there's a need, it should be built. Of course this won't happen, but that's the way it should be in an ideal world.

    Fully agreed on the second point, I didn't think we'd be hearing a peep about the N24/M24 until the M20 was near completion.


  • #448
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    JCX BXC wrote: »
    I don't subscribe to this idea of "Limericks getting x, y and z so it shouldn't get w", I think it's very representative of the parish ideology that we need to get away from. If there's a need, it should be built. Of course this won't happen, but that's the way it should be in an ideal world.

    Fully agreed on the second point, I didn't think we'd be hearing a peep about the N24/M24 until the M20 was near completion.
    Unfortunately, that's the way Irish politics is and an N24 dualled through Limerick instead of a DC in Mayo/Sligo isn't going to do anything for votes.

    I am surprised that so much of the N24 has been reactivated. What has been reactivated was originally 6 seperate schemes (part of Pallasgreen-Bansha, Bansha-Cahir, Cahir-Rathkeevin, Clonmel BP, Carrick BP, Mooncoin BP).


  • #449
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Just looking at the N24 on the new 2040 plan, the map shows a nice big blue line from Waterford as far as Limerick Junction and then - nothing.
    The following sections of the national road network will be progressed through pre-appraisal and early planning during 2018 to prioritise projects which are proceeding to construction in the National Development Plan.

    • N24 Cahir to Limerick Junction
    • N24 Waterford to Cahir


  • #450
    zmgakt7uw2dvfs
    Closed Accounts Posts: 87 ✭✭zmgakt7uw2dvfs


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Just looking at the N24 on the new 2040 plan, the map shows a nice big blue line from Waterford as far as Limerick Junction and then - nothing.

    Link?


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  • #451
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Archer Helpful Veil wrote: »
    Link?


    All in here http://www.gov.ie/en/pdf-viewer/?file=https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/govieassets/18/5569359-NDP%20strategy%202018-2027_WEB.pdf#page=35 search N24


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