N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

charlemont

Typical objectors , but the funniest had to be the N 8 action group also known as NAG...

Amtmann

Council urged to stop planning new bypass route until country returns to good times

Published Date: 24 November 2010
By Aileen Hahesy

A member of Carrick-on-Suir Town Council has appealed to the Co. Council to halt its plans to design a new bypass route for Carrick-on-Suir until the country has the money again to build such roads.

Fianna Fail Cllr Sylvia Cooney-Sheehan has lodged a submission with South Tipperary Co. Council urging it to stop the process now underway to confirm a new preferred route corridor for the proposed bypass.

The new preferred route corridor being proposed by the Co. Council replicates the old one along substantial sections of the western half of the scheme but bypasses Carrick-on-Suir on a wider arc to the north of the town and extends into Co. Kilkenny, which the previous preferred route corridor didn't.

Cllr Cooney-Sheehan said in the current economic climate the Government hadn't enough funds to build this bypass and she doesn't believe finance for the project will be forthcoming for 15 to 20 years.

In view of this, she said it was not right that land along the new preferred route the Council was now proposing should be "sterilised" for years to come, namely that no new development can take place on this land. It wasn't fair on the owners of this property, who might want to sell a site, she argued.

"During the Celtic Tiger years, we didn't get a bypass built and we certainly won't get it built in the recovery period for our economy," the maverick FF councillor said.

She said the land along the original preferred bypass route has been "sterilised" for development for the past eight years and now it was a case of that restriction being lifted. Landowners along this route corridor had missed out on an opportunity to sell sites on their properties at the height of the property boom because of this "sterilisation" of their land and now it was being "handed back to them" as the bypass was no longer going to be built through their lands.

She didn't want the same thing to happen with property owners along the new preferred route corridor when there was little prospect of this road being built in the next few years.

Cllr Cooney-Sheehan lodged her submission to the Council as part of its public consultation process on the new preferred bypass route corridor.

A campaign of opposition to the preferred bypass route was launched at a public meeting in Carrick-on-Suir two weeks ago.

Members of the public concerned about the new preferred route corridor being proposed were urged at that meeting to lodge objections to South Tipperary Co. Council. The closing date for submissions was Monday.

Meanwhile, at this month's meeting of Carrick-on-Suir Town Council, Cllr Cooney-Sheehan asked for clarification from Council management about a statement made at the Council's public consultation forum that the Town Council had recommended the preferred route be moved out further from the town.

She pointed out that as far as she could recall, the elected Council as a collective body never made such a recommendation.

Mr O'Brien responded that this wasn't the forum to discuss the bypass.
Cllr Sheehan-Cooney said it was very unfair of the Town Clerk not to answer this question. "If we can't ask it at this forum as we are the elected representatives. where can we ask it? I think it's a very sad day," she concluded.

South Tipperary Co. Council's Director of Roads Billy McEvoy said the Council would take all submissions on the proposed preferred route corridor into account before drawing up its final draft report for the Co. Council.

http://www.nationalist.ie/carrickonsuir/Council-urged-to-stop-planning.6638144.jp

Bards

Furet wrote: »

http://www.nationalist.ie/carrickonsuir/Council-urged-to-stop-planning.6638144.jp

unreal - this land HAS TO BE RESERVED for the future bypass. otherwise we will end up with more urban sprawl into the surrounding countryside, and an even larger detour.

Don;t these councillors ever get it?

Amtmann

Bards wrote: »

unreal - this land HAS TO BE RESERVED for the future bypass. otherwise we will end up with more urban sprawl into the surrounding countryside, and an even larger detour.

Don;t these councillors ever get it?

Was that a rhetorical question?

Amtmann

Here's that counsellor's webpage. You can email her from there. I did.

serfboard

It wasn't fair on the owners of this property, who might want to sell a site, she argued.

Good on ye Fianna Fail - still looking after farmers hoping to sell "a bit of an oul' site" - only problem is we have more than a quarter of a million spare houses and enough land zoned to house 10 million or so.

Oh yeah, and we're bust.

And well done on learning the lessons of what caused our collapse too.

Amtmann

Talks Begin on Revised Plan for Carrick-on-Suir Bypass

By Frank McDonald

SOUTH TIPPERARY County Council is engaged in a new round of public consultation on revised plans for a 17km dual-carriageway bypass of Carrick-on-Suir, on the N24 between Waterford and Limerick.

The latest scheme, which is being promoted in partnership with the National Roads Authority, has run into opposition from farmers in the area because of the large “land-take” needed for the new route and its environmental impact.

An earlier proposal for a wide single-carriageway bypass was dropped in 2008 due to “an NRA requirement to ensure that the route can be constructed to dual-carriageway standard” to take account of “increased levels of development and traffic”, the council said.

The existing road is described as a single-carriageway with hard shoulders of varying widths. “Safe overtaking opportunities are heavily restricted due to the alignment, the number of junctions and private accesses and the volume of oncoming traffic during peak periods.”

But one of the objectors – Eoghan McGrath, of Killonerry, near Carrick-on-Suir – said no accurate, up-to-date traffic count had been carried out to justify a dual-carriageway, and it was “breathtakingly absurd” to suggest that it could ever be justified by growth and development.

“The NRA’s own network of automatic roadside counters shows traffic has fallen 7 per cent over the last two years. This downward trend is accelerating, with a 4.3 per cent drop in the last 12 months compounding a 2.6 per cent fall the previous year,” he said.

In his submission to the council, Mr McGrath complained that Killonerry itself would be cut in half by the “emerging preferred route” for the new road even though the townland’s integrity had been “maintained through many centuries of hardship and oppression”.

He said Killonerry is a popular route for walkers from Carrick-on-Suir, horseriding from local equestrian centres and a jogging route for athletes from the Seán Kelly centre as well as being a habitat for protected species such as barn owl, corncrake and kingfisher.

The proposed dual-carriageway would branch off the N76 and run north of the existing N24, passing Ballydine Crossroads and Ballinderry, gradually turning northeastwards between Deerpark and Ballynagrana to avoid the built up areas of Carrick-on-Suir.

The route would then cross the R696, the Glen river, the R696 and the Linguan river in turn as it passes north of the town. The route finally turns back eastwards to join with the existing N24 east of Carrick-on-Suir.

The county council said route options were “assessed under criteria of safety, economy, environment, accessibility, social inclusion and integration”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1228/1224286364519.html

mk6705

Furet wrote: »

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/1228/1224286364519.html

Would this be type 1 or type 2 dual-carriageway?

Sponge Bob

While Type 1 should be considered from Limerick to W of Tipp town and also Waterford (or M9 terminus) to E of Clonmel all the rest of this route should be no more than Type 2 including the bypasses of Clonmel and Tipperary towns themselves.

charlemont

Its never going to be built anyway so it makes no difference what type carrigeway it will be, sure it was originally planned to have dual carrigeway from J10@M8 to Rathkeevin, which is a very busy road until the locals objected and in its place we only got a 2+1 from J10 to the existing road, its backwards the N24 is going , they have improved the existing road a lot in the last year so therefore they have an excuse not to go ahead with any new projects on it..Half of the problem with the road is local traffic crawling along the road at 60/70/80KM and never using the hard shoulder to let following traffic overtake, Its the one road i use were im continuously overtaking... Tipp Town, the people would want to cop on and refuse to pay their car tax..I honestly will put my hand on my heart and say the Tipp bypass will not be built till at least 2025/2030. sure why would we want a decent road between Munsters second and third cities!!!!

Wild Bill

charlemont wrote: »

Tipp Town, the people would want to cop on and refuse to pay their car tax..I honestly will put my hand on my heart and say the Tipp bypass will not be built till at least 2025/2030. sure why would we want a decent road between Munsters second and third cities!!!!

It seems that "they" who are conspiring to avoid building a new road by improving the existing one are merely responding to the locals desires.

Not much point blaming a faceless (and moneyless) "them" when the various objectors seem very happy to be named!

Clearly the people of Tipp aren't too excited by the prospect of a "decent road between Munsters second and third cities" :cool:

mk6705

Sponge Bob wrote: »

While Type 1 should be considered from Limerick to W of Tipp town and also Waterford (or M9 terminus) to E of Clonmel all the rest of this route should be no more than Type 2 including the bypasses of Clonmel and Tipperary towns themselves.

So the Carrick bypass will actually be type 1 then. I'm getting used to the media being horribly wrong on these things, like a "motorway from Adare to Abbeyfeale" and the like.

Sponge Bob

Adro947 wrote: »

So the Carrick bypass will actually be type 1 then. I'm getting used to the media being horribly wrong on these things, like a "motorway from Adare to Abbeyfeale" and the like.

Don't know, but if a WS2 was deemed sufficient in 2003 I cannot see how a Type 1 is justifiable today.

Amtmann

Carrick bypass will be type 2. The only type 1 that might be built would be from Pallasgreen to Ballysimon and from Mooncoin to Waterford, but I expect type 2 there as well.

Wild Bill

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Don't know, but if a WS2 was deemed sufficient in 2003 I cannot see how a Type 1 is justifiable today.

We can't plan roads/infrastructure based on the assumption that this year's economy will last for 30 years. That was the mistake we made in the 1980s.

The McDonald article (as always) managed to find a raft of objectors but not a single local person willing to support the road. And I wager he didn't seek out a balance of views. This isn't professional journalism.

If McDonald wants to parade his ignorance he should use sites like this - not be given a blank check to campaign for his political views in the news pages of the execrable "Paper of Record". :mad:

Boscoirl

Does anyone know what kind of road works are going on between Clonmel and Cahir?

The road is closed, and you get diverted to New Inn and back down the old N8. I normally use that road to get to Limerick( New Inn - Golden - Tipp Town) but with the extra traffic its taking much longer( some people driving between 25 and 40 mph depending on if there is a car coming against them or not )

Amtmann

It's annoying alright. I think they are taking out a bad bend about 1km to the Cahir side of the apple farm, but I'm not sure.

Irish and Proud

Wild Bill wrote: »

We can't plan roads/infrastructure based on the assumption that this year's economy will last for 30 years. That was the mistake we made in the 1980s.

The McDonald article (as always) managed to find a raft of objectors but not a single local person willing to support the road. And I wager he didn't seek out a balance of views. This isn't professional journalism.

If McDonald wants to parade his ignorance he should use sites like this - not be given a blank check to campaign for his political views in the news pages of the execrable "Paper of Record". :mad:

IMO, Frank McDonald is a hardcore anti-car journalist! How does he get away with all the rubbish he writes - he has being doing it since at least the early 1990's if not earlier - surely, this guy should be challenged on his (IMO slanted) views??? :mad:

Bards

Boscoirl wrote: »

Does anyone know what kind of road works are going on between Clonmel and Cahir?

The road is closed, and you get diverted to New Inn and back down the old N8. I normally use that road to get to Limerick( New Inn - Golden - Tipp Town) but with the extra traffic its taking much longer( some people driving between 25 and 40 mph depending on if there is a car coming against them or not )

N24 Clonmel/Cahir Rd is closed at Rathmore until Fri 28th Jan for works

from http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/AA-Roadwatch.aspx

Amtmann

Bards wrote: »

N24 Clonmel/Cahir Rd is closed at Rathmore until Fri 28th Jan for works

from http://www.aaireland.ie/AA/AA-Roadwatch.aspx

I'd love to know AADT between Clonmel and Cahir. I'd estimate it at >13,000.

Boscoirl

Thanks for the replies, if its the bend I am thinking about, it wasn't bad enough to warrant closing the road for nearly 3weeks,

Amtmann

Boscoirl wrote: »

Thanks for the replies, if its the bend I am thinking about, it wasn't bad enough to warrant closing the road for nearly 3weeks,

It was certainly bad enough that it warrants removal, but I also struggle to see how a closure of 3 weeks is necessary. I'm expecting a big improvement when it re-opens!

spacetweek

Mr McGrath complained that [Insert one-horse town name here] itself would be cut in half by the “emerging preferred route” for the new road even though the townland’s integrity had been “maintained through many centuries of hardship and oppression”.

Like every township in the country, pal.
I never heard such heartstring guff in my life.

Tremelo wrote: »

Carrick bypass will be type 2. The only type 1 that might be built would be from Pallasgreen to Ballysimon and from Mooncoin to Waterford, but I expect type 2 there as well.

This is correct, it's what they've been saying all along. However I agree that Cahir-COS is the most important part all right.

Amtmann

Someone killed on the severely over-capacity Boher to Ballysimon section of the N24 today. This section probably has an AADT in the region of 20,000.

pooch90

Does anyone know when the speed limit along the bypass changed from 100kmph to 60 kmph between the Cahir Road Roundabout and the 'Traffic calming' islands approaching Cashel roundabout?

They have also installed what appears to be a speed camera on the weather station just beside the flyover.

All very sneaky!

touts

pooch90 wrote: »

Does anyone know when the speed limit along the bypass changed from 100kmph to 60 kmph between the Cahir Road Roundabout and the 'Traffic calming' islands approaching Cashel roundabout?

They have also installed what appears to be a speed camera on the weather station just beside the flyover.

All very sneaky!

If they are stupid enough to have put a fixed camera there it will be "gone" within a week. There is a reason why they opted for mobile camera vans and move them every 2 hours.

cml387

pooch90 wrote: »

Does anyone know when the speed limit along the bypass changed from 100kmph to 60 kmph between the Cahir Road Roundabout and the 'Traffic calming' islands approaching Cashel roundabout?

They have also installed what appears to be a speed camera on the weather station just beside the flyover.

All very sneaky!

It's not a speed camera
It measures visibility.

pooch90

Had a better look at it today, you're right. Not a speed camera. But point about the speed limit still stands. It's a ridiculous limit to place there. Seems the majority of people don't know it's been changed.

Vizzy

Speed limit is only temporary till about the end of June to allow works to be carried out just at the bridge over the bypass.
It was advertised in the papers a couple of weeks ago

JabbaTheHut

I wonder will there be more of the speed camera vans seen there now.