N24 Limerick-Waterford upgrade

sonyair

try this and search for M7 N24 in development location

http://137.191.230.245/pelite/Default.aspx

touts

Sadly two more people killed on the road this morning. The Tipp-Bansha-Cahir stretch must be one of the most dangerous roads in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0327/rta.html

Amtmann

touts wrote: »

Sadly two more people killed on the road this morning. The Tipp-Bansha-Cahir stretch must be one of the most dangerous roads in the country.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0327/rta.html

Indeed. And according to South Tipp's website, the scheme that would replace that atrocious stretch is frozen. The EIS, which is basically complete since late last year, hasn't even been submitted to An Bord Pleanala yet.

Amtmann

Having watched the news report on the above accident, it seems the road was not at fault. That particular stretch of N24 is very straight. Head-on collisions like this one, on straight stretches of road, send shivers down my spine.

touts

Amtmann wrote: »

Having watched the news report on the above accident, it seems the road was not at fault. That particular stretch of N24 is very straight. Head-on collisions like this one, on straight stretches of road, send shivers down my spine.

Actually it's only a "straight stretch" for maybe 400 meters. What makes it particularly lethal is it is the only overtaking opportunity after about 9 miles of really bad bends from Cahir. Past Bansha heading towards Tipperary Town there there is another "straight stretch" of a shorter length and then it is back to 6 miles of terrible bends through woods. So this 400 meters of "straight stretch" is hardly a ringing endorsement of the quality N24 and the NRA (it struck me that the surprising emphasis on "straight stretch" meant the NRA PR department was on the phone to RTE as soon as the accident happened). When drivers get to this spot they tend to take risks on that stretch through pure frustration. I have seen some insane manouvers along this stretch. I have seen drivers floor it just as they come around the bend to try to overtake up to 10 others ahead of them in the queue that has been behind a slow truck for 15 minutes. I have seen drivers time it so late to overtake that they screetch to a halt at the concrete mid road dividers leading into Bansha. I don't know what happened in this case. Was someone grasping the small window for overtaking. Or speeding in the first straight stretch after miles of frustrating bends. Or taking an opportunity to change a CD. We might never know what happened. But someone took a chance at this only "straight stretch" in the middle of 25 minutes of frustration and paid a terrible cost.

touts

Another serious accident on the Bansha to Cahir stretch tonight. This time closer to Cahir. Road closed and diversions in place.

touts

highlydebased wrote: »

One side of the bridge is weak or something- so they're only allowing traffic at the weaker side.

I have noticed recently that there seems to be no work going on BUT there seems to be a permanent 24/7 presence of a couple of lads sitting in a Car/Van in the closed lane just off the bridge. There is even a porta-loo and all set up for them. I have passed it at all hours of the day and they are there. I presume they are there to monitor the bridge as the only alternative is in case someone steals the bollards and that would make them seriously expensive bollards.

Just how dangerous is the bridge that they have to limit traffic on it to one lane at a time AND they need someone there watching it 24 hours a day??

charlemont

touts wrote: »

I have noticed recently that there seems to be no work going on BUT there seems to be a permanent 24/7 presence of a couple of lads sitting in a Car/Van in the closed lane just off the bridge. There is even a porta-loo and all set up for them. I have passed it at all hours of the day and they are there. I presume they are there to monitor the bridge as the only alternative is in case someone steals the bollards and that would make them seriously expensive bollards.

Just how dangerous is the bridge that they have to limit traffic on it to one lane at a time AND they need someone there watching it 24 hours a day??

Its the Irish way..Getting paid to do no actual work.

Sponge Bob

charlemont wrote: »

Its the Irish way..Getting paid to do no actual work.

Must be CIE staff so.

charlemont

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Must be CIE staff so.

True, You are probably right, I'll be passing it later on so I'll see if I can find out.

Wild Bill

charlemont wrote: »

Its the Irish way..Getting paid to do no actual work.

There is a difference between the Irish way and the CIE way. Don't generalize from the sheltered world of the Public Service to the real world.
:mad:

Limerick74

Latest update on Oola Bridge replacement:
http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/local/irish-rail-say-a-limerick-bridge-to-be-replaced-a-year-and-half-after-temporary-traffic-lights-installed-1-3876271

Limerick74

Further updates on N24 Oola Bridge replacement to take place in August:

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php/navigation-mainmenu-30/local-news/4660-commuters-to-go-off-rails.html?device=desktop

pigtown

Am I right in thinking that as they are only replacing one bridge then all of this disruption will happen again when they get round to doing the second one?

Limerick74

pigtown wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that as they are only replacing one bridge then all of this disruption will happen again when they get round to doing the second one?

Yes they will have to close the N24 again when replacing Brooks Bridge at some time in the future. The NRA had given the County Council funding towards replacing both bridges together but Irish Rail decided to only do one now.

touts

Well it looks like the N24 is going to be skipped once again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

fricatus

touts wrote: »

Well it looks like the N24 is going to be skipped once again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

And who is Minister for Public Expenditure? That's right, it's Wexford man, Brendan Howlin. And the New Ross and Enniscorthy/Gorey schemes have both got the go-ahead.

Helps to have a minister, eh?

From our point of view in Waterford, this is good news, particularly New Ross. However I think if we had to choose one over the other, I'd prefer to see something being done about the N24. And the N24 makes more sense from a national point of view - Waterford/Rosslare to Limerick/Galway is a more important route than Wexford-Dublin, and anyway that's already mostly dual carriageway.

antoobrien

touts wrote: »

Well it looks like the N24 is going to be skipped once again.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2012/0717/breaking2.html

fricatus wrote: »

And who is Minister for Public Expenditure? That's right, it's Wexford man, Brendan Howlin.

In fairness the projects mooted are part of the second PPP programme and were mentioned as being the priorities for funding in the infra plan/budget announced last December. The plans long pre-date Howlin's time in Government (or even Mickey D in the aras) and these projects will be easier to spin up than N24.

Hopefully a fringe benefit will be to release design funds for projects like this to get them to the "shovel ready" stage

jd

fricatus wrote: »

And who is Minister for Public Expenditure? That's right, it's Wexford man, Brendan Howlin. And the New Ross and Enniscorthy/Gorey schemes have both got the go-ahead.

These have been through the planning process and the land has been CPO'd already. I'd say that has more to do with it.

fricatus

antoobrien wrote: »

In fairness the projects mooted are part of the second PPP programme and were mentioned as being the priorities for funding in the infra plan/budget announced last December. The plans long pre-date Howlin's time in Government (or even Mickey D in the aras) and these projects will be easier to spin up than N24.

Hopefully a fringe benefit will be to release design funds for projects like this to get them to the "shovel ready" stage

jd wrote: »

These have been through the planning process and the land has been CPO'd already. I'd say that has more to do with it.

In fairness I have no argument against those schemes. Being a beneficiary of the M9 (working in KK, living in Waterford), I know the value of good roads, and don't begrudge them to the Wexicans. New Ross and Enniscorthy (two very nice towns) are blighted with through traffic.

However my point is that those much needed schemes mightn't have got the push they needed were it not for the presence of a Wexford man at the cabinet table. The M9 was very much needed too, but little or nothing was done about it for 30 years until Martin Cullen came along.

I'm not attacking Howlin, or Wexford, just a system that leaves so much of infrastructural planning up to the "pull" exerted by a minister.

antoobrien

fricatus wrote: »

In fairness I have no argument against those schemes. Being a beneficiary of the M9 (working in KK, living in Waterford), I know the value of good roads, and don't begrudge them to the Wexicans. New Ross and Enniscorthy (two very nice towns) are blighted with through traffic.

However my point is that those much needed schemes mightn't have got the push they needed were it not for the presence of a Wexford man at the cabinet table. The M9 was very much needed too, but little or nothing was done about it for 30 years until Martin Cullen came along.

I'm not attacking Howlin, or Wexford, just a system that leaves so much of infrastructural planning up to the "pull" exerted by a minister.

Fair enough, but I think you're being blinkered by the fact that Howlin is from Wexford. The project is one of 3 major roads projects that are ready to go since before this government came in. Even if it looks like parish pump, it's a no brainer to include. The alternative is to leave it idle while having to do months/years planning work to get the N24 or M20 to shovel ready status.

Hell, look at the alternative - it could all be put into Dart Underground or Metro north (which would keep the Dubs happy but screw up the rest of the country)

Bards

antoobrien wrote: »

Fair enough, but I think you're being blinkered by the fact that Howlin is from Wexford. The project is one of 3 major roads projects that are ready to go since before this government came in. Even if it looks like parish pump, it's a no brainer to include. The alternative is to leave it idle while having to do months/years planning work to get the N24 or M20 to shovel ready status.

Hell, look at the alternative - it could all be put into Dart Underground or Metro north (which would keep the Dubs happy but screw up the rest of the country)

Yes, I think it's a no-brainer too. the more of these shovel-ready projects that gets the go ahead in these lean times the better.

It will mean that the likes of the N24 Limerick - Waterford scheme will get moved higher up the pecking order as the other schemes finish.

It would be nice if the 5 Cities were connected to each other as they are to Dublin at present, and complete the network

charlemont

Tipp Town badly needs a by-pass, Its no coincidence most of us describe it as a dump, A traffic snarled main street, That town cannot develop till its by-passed and if the NRA won't do it then the STCC should try and develop a ring road going around the south of the town.

road_high

They have started on the bridge renewal near Tipp town? Was down this way at the weekend and they were clearing the site and area adjoining the bridge. Monard I think it's called.

touts

mfitzy wrote: »

They have started on the bridge renewal near Tipp town? Was down this way at the weekend and they were clearing the site and area adjoining the bridge. Monard I think it's called.

Oola.

I suppose as the N24 seems to be bottom of the NRA priority list we are lucky to even get a replacement bridge.

touts

touts wrote: »

Oola.

I suppose as the N24 seems to be bottom of the NRA priority list we are lucky to even get a replacement bridge.

Just looked at the NRA website and in comparison to other counties Cork, Donegal and Mayo(the Big counties) stand out for the massive amount of roads that have been suspended or are still in the planning stage and lack of completed roads.
http://nra.ie/mapping/
I see Dublin is almost complete along with a few of its neighbours who are complete...looks like a lot of money has yet to reach the regions. Galway in fairness is certainly getting its share of late.

charlemont

charlemont wrote: »

Tipp Town badly needs a by-pass, Its no coincidence most of us describe it as a dump, A traffic snarled main street, That town cannot develop till its by-passed and if the NRA won't do it then the STCC should try and develop a ring road going around the south of the town.

Ballina has nearly three times the population with not much better than dirt tracks leading to it in all directions and no bypasses or relief roads. Can't imagine Tipp town will be high in the priority list of the NRA especially with towns like Adare still out there.

touts

Deleted User wrote: »

Ballina has nearly three times the population with not much better than dirt tracks leading to it in all directions and no bypasses or relief roads. Can't imagine Tipp town will be high in the priority list of the NRA especially with towns like Adare still out there.

Well I suspect given your name you are trolling a bit coming on to a Tipp forum to support Ballina. However the signifiance of Tipperary over Ballina and Adare is Tipperary links the West coast to the Europort in Rosslare. Ballina and Adare have nowhere near the same strategic importance to the national road network

Either way the Brendan Howlin Re-election Motorway has been deemed a higher priority for whatever few Euro could be scraped together so I suspect Tipperary, Ballina and Adare are in effect cancelled. We're all in the same boat now.

fricatus

touts wrote: »

Well I suspect given your name you are trolling a bit coming on to a Tipp forum to support Ballina.

Hmmm, it's actually a Roads forum, so I think he/she's allowed!

Still though, given that the N24 is the link from the West to Rosslare Europort, it's not just Tipperary that has an interest in it being upgraded - it has a direct bearing on the export competitiveness of Sligo, Roscommon, Galway, Limerick and Clare too, not to mention Mayo!

I'm surprised that Western TDs haven't been more vocal on the matter, but the fact that the road is mostly in Tipp means that most don't look outside their constituencies to see the bigger picture!

veryangryman

fricatus wrote: »

Hmmm, it's actually a Roads forum, so I think he/she's allowed!

Still though, given that the N24 is the link from the West to Rosslare Europort, it's not just Tipperary that has an interest in it being upgraded - it has a direct bearing on the export competitiveness of Sligo, Roscommon, Galway, Limerick and Clare too, not to mention Mayo!

I'm surprised that Western TDs haven't been more vocal on the matter, but the fact that the road is mostly in Tipp means that most don't look outside their constituencies to see the bigger picture!

Benefits Mayo? What scenario would have a trucker going via Rosslare to get to Anywhere in Connaught, never mind Mayo? DC/Motorway from Paris-England-Wales-Dublin-Athlone before you hit roads that are in any way comparable with the piss poor N24, the alternative is not worth contemplating.

veryangryman

veryangryman wrote: »

Benefits Mayo? What scenario would have a trucker going via Rosslare to get to Anywhere in Connaught, never mind Mayo? DC/Motorway from Paris-England-Wales-Dublin-Athlone before you hit roads that are in any way comparable with the piss poor N24, the alternative is not worth contemplating.

Some lorries cannot even fit on the N5 through Ballaghadereen town (due to a very tight narrow 90 degree turn)so lots go the longer route via the N17/18 to Galway, then Dublin. Those that do travel on the N5 do so mainly at night because of the shocking narrow twisty roads and slow speeds mainly in Roscommon. Several exporting multinationals from Mayo had pressed the government to make improvements due to the damage been caused to products on route. They had threatened to pull out. Resulting in the now planned Ballaghdereen bypass starting this Winter and the soon to be opened Longford bypass. All low cost projects.
http://www.advertiser.ie/mayo/article/26268

Maybe the factories in Tipperary and Limerick could try this lobbying approach, but i'd be surprised if the conditions are as bad. If it is really effecting production and jobs and not just an inconvenience the Government would have to do something.

serfboard

fricatus wrote: »

I'm surprised that Western TDs haven't been more vocal on the matter, but the fact that the road is mostly in Tipp means that most don't look outside their constituencies to see the bigger picture!

Sadly one of the problems with our current political system of electing National politicians on a local basis - which is why it's so badly in need of reform.

Bards

veryangryman wrote: »

Benefits Mayo? What scenario would have a trucker going via Rosslare to get to Anywhere in Connaught, never mind Mayo? DC/Motorway from Paris-England-Wales-Dublin-Athlone before you hit roads that are in any way comparable with the piss poor N24, the alternative is not worth contemplating.

Trucks that may want to go/ come from southern Wales/England perhaps or god forbid Northern France?

E.G Sligo - Galway - Limerick - Waterford - Rosslare ==== Fishguard/Pembroke

Sponge Bob

Deleted User wrote: »

Those that do travel on the N5 do so mainly at night because of the shocking narrow twisty roads and slow speeds mainly in Roscommon..

Nothing can be done about the N5 in Roscommon IMO so take it to an N5 thread.

The N24 is another goat track except that it connects Galway/Limerick with Waterford and is of way more national significance than the N5.

The N24 is by far the worst major N Road nowadays and lesser routes such as the N22 and N5 have notably shorter really crap sections than the N24.

Galway Rosslare is mainly via Tullamore and Carlow nowadays.

Sponge Bob

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Nothing can be done about the N5 in Roscommon IMO so take it to an N5 thread.

The N24 is another goat track except that it connects Galway/Limerick with Waterford and is of way more national significance than the N5.

The N24 is by far the worst major N Road nowadays and lesser routes such as the N22 and N5 have notably shorter really crap sections than the N24.

Galway Rosslare is mainly via Tullamore and Carlow nowadays.

Surely Industry using the N24 should be using all resources to get it done or at least on the governments agenda. Even a high tolled option like the Galway to Dublin.

Limerick74

Irish Rail recently advertised an information night (Tuesday 24th July) in the Ballykisteen Hotel, Limerick Junction between 5pm and 8pm. They will provide information on the planned N24 Road Closure at Oola scheduled for 20th - 27th August as well as information on the Bridge Replacement Works currently underway.

DaveJac

Limerick74 wrote: »

Irish Rail recently advertised an information night (Tuesday 24th July) in the Ballykisteen Hotel, Limerick Junction between 5pm and 8pm. They will provide information on the planned N24 Road Closure at Oola scheduled for 20th - 27th August as well as information on the Bridge Replacement Works currently underway.

the way they plan to divert traffic is a disgrace sending people miles and miles out of there way when there is alot shorter route

charlemont

DaveJac wrote: »

the way they plan to divert traffic is a disgrace sending people miles and miles out of there way when there is alot shorter route

What way do they intend diverting traffic ?

ItHurtsWhenIP

DaveJac wrote: »

the way they plan to divert traffic is a disgrace sending people miles and miles out of there way when there is alot shorter route

I would agree, except that I don't think the roads involved in the shorter route would be able for the hundreds of large articulated trucks that use the N24 daily.

charlemont wrote: »

What way do they intend diverting traffic ?

From what I've heard (so this could be wrong):
For Limerick-Tipperary bound - turn off at Grange cross - Cappamore - Doon - Cappawhite - Dundrum - Tipperary.

For Tipperary-Limerick bound - in Tipp town, head to Emly - Knocklong - Hospital - Caherconlish and back to the N24.

Sponge Bob

If the large wind programme mentioned in the infrastructure forum is to happen then I suspect that upgrades to the N80 and the eastern half of the N24 will be required to move those turbines onsite if Waterford is the landing and configuration base...or Arklow or Wicklow.

A built but unopened dualler would also be ideal as a staging area. Lets see Laois / Tipp co cos are quickwitted

charlemont

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

I would agree, except that I don't think the roads involved in the shorter route would be able for the hundreds of large articulated trucks that use the N24 daily.



From what I've heard (so this could be wrong):
For Limerick-Tipperary bound - turn off at Grange cross - Cappamore - Doon - Cappawhite - Dundrum - Tipperary.

For Tipperary-Limerick bound - in Tipp town, head to Emly - Knocklong - Hospital - Caherconlish and back to the N24.

That's a nice bit out of the way alright.

DaveJac

if they turned people off in monard up to cullen and back into Oola and In Oola turn up into sologhead and back into monard I know the road from oola to sologhead is small when it would be one way it would be ok, locals will go these ways away there wont be a one way and will be traffic jams, truck drivers ect and people having to drive that road everyday will look at a map and see these routes too and take the shorter option

touts

Sponge Bob wrote: »

If the large wind programme mentioned in the infrastructure forum is to happen then I suspect that upgrades to the N80 and the eastern half of the N24 will be required to move those turbines onsite if Waterford is the landing and configuration base...or Arklow or Wicklow.

A built but unopened dualler would also be ideal as a staging area. Lets see Laois / Tipp co cos are quickwitted

When it didnt make it onto the latest government wishlist it wont be built in the next 10 years. If some large equipment is to be moved they will just do rolling closures of the road to the public.

touts

MMFITWGDV wrote: »

From what I've heard (so this could be wrong):
For Limerick-Tipperary bound - turn off at Grange cross - Cappamore - Doon - Cappawhite - Dundrum - Tipperary.

For Tipperary-Limerick bound - in Tipp town, head to Emly - Knocklong - Hospital - Caherconlish and back to the N24.

To hell with that. That will add at least 30 minutes to the trip. Longer if there are a few slow trucks. I presume if you say you are going to a house or business up the road they will leave you through the roadblock and then you can use the backroads.

DaveJac

touts wrote: »

To hell with that. That will add at least 30 minutes to the trip. Longer if there are a few slow trucks. I presume if you say you are going to a house or business up the road they will leave you through the roadblock and then you can use the backroads.

will take longer it will take nearly an hour each way id say with traffic

Limerick74

Here is a scan of the advert in the paper for the N24 Road Closure which shows the diversion routes.

touts

Limerick74 wrote: »

Here is a scan of the advert in the paper for the N24 Road Closure which shows the diversion routes.

:eek:
They can stick that plan up the arse they pulled it from! Unless they have guards manning roadblocks 24-7 they will be lucky if half the traffic follows that detour. There must be 50 different combinations of backroads that would be significantly shorter and if they made them one way for the week it would solve the problem.

Sponge Bob

touts wrote: »

When it didnt make it onto the latest government wishlist it wont be built in the next 10 years. If some large equipment is to be moved they will just do rolling closures of the road to the public.

These will be extra extra large needing very straight roads...anyway the big wind announcement came too late to make the gubbiment plan.

touts

I see traffic lights have gone up on another railway bridge with only one lane open. The warning signs say that it is for one week only but we heard that before (about 18 months ago in Oola to be precise). Hopefully yet another part of the road is not about to collapse.

DaveJac

touts wrote: »

I see traffic lights have gone up on another railway bridge with only one lane open. The warning signs say that it is for one week only but we heard that before (about 18 months ago in Oola to be precise). Hopefully yet another part of the road is not about to collapse.

brooks bridge between oola and pallas green?? council wouldnt leave CIE do what they did in Oola beceause it took them so long, taught they were just having the lights at night? they are doing a patch up job on it bridge apparently not as rusty as the one in oola when they went blasting that to get a clean surface to weld there was nothing to weld to:rolleyes: