Leinster v Ulster Build Up Thread

irishfan9 · 03-01-2018 12:20pm #1

5.35pm on Saturday, can be viewed on Sky, BBC & TG4

More of this hopefully

arsebiscuits1 · 03-01-2018 12:27pm

Ulster flattered to deceive at the weekend.

If Munster didn't go down to 13 and 14, Ulster would still probably be trying to cross the whitewash.

Big beefy pack to immobilise the Ulster threat. They're incredibly one dimensional once their forwards and under the kosh as we have seen a lot this season.

Having said that, when Ulster came to town last year, we didn't play nearly as well as we should have.

1) McGrath

2) Tracy

3) Furlong

4) Fardy

5) Toner

6) Conan

7) Jordi

8) Deegan

9) JGP

10) Byrne

11) Byrne

12) Henshaw

13) Ringrose

14) Isa

15) Larmour

Ahead of Europe, we need to get our centre pairing right with Ringrose slow out of the blocks. Furlong, McGrath, Toner, Conan, Henshaw and Isa should all be fresh and ready to come back in.

I think this team shows a good shape and the remainder of the bug guns can slot right in ahead of the Glasgow game

Digifriendly · 03-01-2018 12:46pm

Why can English commentators not pronounce names like Larmour properly?
Miles Harrison makes same error in above clip as BBC News sports presenter did when the same player scored his spectacular try against Munster last week. They make the name sound French. Does no one inform them of proper pronunciation?
BTW Leinster to win comfortably with BP.

Former Former · 03-01-2018 12:48pm

Handicap is 14 points. I think backing Ulster to beat that is free money.

arsebiscuits1 · 03-01-2018 12:52pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

Why can English commentators not pronounce names like Larmour properly?
Miles Harrison makes same error in above clip as BBC News sports presenter did when the same player scored his spectacular try against Munster last week. They make the name sound French. Does no oneinform them of proper pronunciation?
BTW Leinster to win comfortably with BP.

It annoys the hell out of me.

I appreciate that it does read like the fancy french pronunciation. But when it's your job to read out names, I'd expect you to do it correctly.

I can even overlook the English commentary effort at POM - O'Mawhny - as it's just accent. But constant and blatant mistakes of ones name is just unprofessional.

I remember a commentator years back insisting on calling Isa Eye-sa Nacewa

errlloyd · 03-01-2018 1:20pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

Why can English commentators not pronounce names like Larmour properly?

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

It annoys the hell out of me.

I appreciate that it does read like the fancy french pronunciation. But when it's your job to read out names, I'd expect you to do it correctly.

I know a few people who were in school with him, and they pronounce it roughly the way Myles Harrison is. The only mistake Myles is making is dropping the "r" to being almost silent.

It's "Lar" (rhymes with bar) "More" (rhymes with door". Apparently.

jacothelad · 03-01-2018 2:05pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

Ulster flattered to deceive at the weekend.

If Munster didn't go down to 13 and 14, Ulster would still probably be trying to cross the whitewash.

Big beefy pack to immobilise the Ulster threat. They're incredibly one dimensional once their forwards and under the kosh as we have seen a lot this season.

Having said that, when Ulster came to town last year, we didn't play nearly as well as we should have.

Without essentially disagreeing with the overall sentiment of your opinion I would point out that Ulster did unluckily have a try over-ruled for something that happens in every ruck and did score before the red card was issued. In fact the violent conduct that led to the red card also reduced Ulster to 14 men as Lealiifano was stretched out on the pitch and Ulster went on to score. It was the second time in a minute that he had been high hit by Arnold but the first one was missed and wasn't such a stupid rash act.

I would imagine that normal thought processes would lead a coach to select the Ulster team something along the lines of the following but this is Kiss we are talking about.

1. Black
2. Herring
3. Herbst
4. O'Connor / Treadwell
5. Henderson
6. Deysel...tho' he may be injured...or Diack...or Ethel's wee sister Agnes.
7. Jones
8. Timoney Knows......... I assume Reidy and Henry are out.

9. Cooney
10. Lealiifano
11. Gilroy
12. McCloskey
13. Cave. I doubt it though. Kiss seems to have an issue with Darren
14. Stockdale
15. Piutau.

16. Best
17. Warwick / McCall
18. Kane / Ah Phuque No
19. Dalton / Treadwell / O'Connor
20. Rea
21. Paul 'Own Try' Marshall
22. Lyttle
23. Trimble.

thomond2006 · 03-01-2018 2:08pm

Former Former wrote: »

Handicap is 14 points. I think backing Ulster to beat that is free money.

They will be sending a weakened side though right?

Buer · 03-01-2018 2:11pm

At the rate he's going, John Cooney will potentially have more starts for Ulster than he made in his entire Connacht career before we reach the end of February.

irishfan9 · 03-01-2018 2:12pm

Buer wrote: »

At the rate he's going, John Cooney will potentially have more starts for Ulster than he made in his entire Connacht career before we reach the end of February.

due an injury at any minute.

Buer · 03-01-2018 2:17pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

They will be sending a weakened side though right?

They had pretty mixed sides against both Connacht and Munster. I would imagine we'll have the closest thing to full strength that we've seen since the Quins games.

I think Gilroy, Cave, Cooney and Timoney are the only players to start both and Cave wasn't supposed to start against Munster so no reason they can't put out a strong enough side unless they're looking to wrap anyone in cotton wool before the visit of La Rochelle.

John Cooney could really do with a break though before the European games particularly given the 5 day turnaround.

awec · 03-01-2018 2:35pm

If he picks anything other than McCloskey and Cave in midfield he’s an idiot.

Cave gave a lesson in what playing an actual 13 at 13 looks like against Munster.

Can Kiss change the habit of a lifetime and not change the midfield for no reason?

Buer · 03-01-2018 2:38pm

awec wrote: »

If he picks anything other than McCloskey and Cave in midfield he’s an idiot.

Cave gave a lesson in what playing an actual 13 at 13 looks like against Munster.

Can Kiss change the habit of a lifetime and not change the midfield for no reason?

It's a 5 day turnaround. I'd be surprised to see Cave starting if Ludik is available. Cave is one of the only guys to have started both the Connacht and Munster games.

prawnsambo · 03-01-2018 2:38pm

jacothelad wrote: »

I would imagine that normal thought processes would lead a coach to select the Ulster team something along the lines of the following but this is Kiss we are talking about.

1. Black
2. Herring
3. Herbst
4. O'Connor / Treadwell
5. Henderson
6. Deysel...tho' he may be injured...or Diack...or Ethel's wee sister Agnes.
7. Jones
8. Timoney Knows......... I assume Reidy and Henry are out.

9. Cooney
10. Lealiifano
11. Gilroy
12. McCloskey
13. Cave. I doubt it though. Kiss seems to have an issue with Darren
14. Stockdale
15. Piutau.

16. Best
17. Warwick / McCall
18. Kane / Ah Phuque No
19. Dalton / Treadwell / O'Connor
20. Rea
21. Paul 'Own Try' Marshall
22. Lyttle
23. Trimble.

I suspect that Ah Phuque No

and McCall will start again, or at least one of them. If I'm right and they were suffering from rustiness, then some of that should have brushed off by the time the match kicks off. The same for Deysel (was he actually injured, or just you being a bit

?).

Cave should start. If it's been an attitude problem with him, then that seems to be behind him.

arsebiscuits1 · 03-01-2018 3:04pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Without essentially disagreeing with the overall sentiment of your opinion I would point out that Ulster did unluckily have a try over-ruled for something that happens in every ruck and did score before the red card was issued. In fact the violent conduct that led to the red card also reduced Ulster to 14 men as Lealiifano was stretched out on the pitch and Ulster went on to score. It was the second time in a minute that he had been high hit by Arnold but the first one was missed and wasn't such a stupid rash act.

I would imagine that normal thought processes would lead a coach to select the Ulster team something along the lines of the following but this is Kiss we are talking about.

Ulster went on to score against 14 man Munster for their first try thanks in no small part to Cave using CL and the physios as a screen to run through the gap :pac:

Also it's not penalised every ruck because it rarely has a direct impact on a try. This one did. And was rightly penalised.

If everything was penalised we'd literally never get a game going.

sydthebeat · 03-01-2018 3:05pm

awec wrote: »

If he picks anything other than McCloskey and Cave in midfield he’s an idiot.

Cave gave a lesson in what playing an actual 13 at 13 looks like against Munster.

Can Kiss change the habit of a lifetime and not change the midfield for no reason?

he might play cave 12 mcclosky 13

Bridge93 · 03-01-2018 3:28pm

Given Ulsters absentee list they don't have massive options to play around with

baaba maal · 03-01-2018 3:44pm

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

It annoys the hell out of me.

I appreciate that it does read like the fancy french pronunciation. But when it's your job to read out names, I'd expect you to do it correctly.

I can even overlook the English commentary effort at POM - O'Mawhny - as it's just accent. But constant and blatant mistakes of ones name is just unprofessional.

I remember a commentator years back insisting on calling Isa Eye-sa Nacewa

T
o be fair, Donal Lenihan also has problems pronouncing Nacewa's name- but then, he was the only pundit in the world to call Thierry Dusatoir, Terry Doo-sa-tower

03-01-2018 3:53pm

Former Former wrote: »

Handicap is 14 points. I think backing Ulster to beat that is free money.

Leinster beat that in Ravenhill, never mind the RDS.

stephen_n · 03-01-2018 4:54pm

Of course I don’t want Leinster to lose, but it would be amusing to see what certain Ulster fans would have to say, with 2 from 3 victories in the interpros.

Would expect a reasonably strong selection with the European games coming up, would prefer if McCarthy started with JGP on the bench though, so we can see if Lowe can be squeezed into the CC squad.

It’s hard to envisage an Ulster win, but then again it could easily have happened last season, with a similar level of confidence for Leinster going into the game. No Tommy Bowe howlers this time.

Former Former · 03-01-2018 5:24pm

Rory Best back this weekend apparently. Reidy, Stockdale and Henderson too.

bilston · 03-01-2018 5:30pm

I hope Ulster go as strong as possible which IMO would be...

1 Black
2 Best
3 Herbst
4 Henderson
5 O'Connor
6 Deysel
7 Henry
8 Reidy
9 Cooney
10 Lealifilano
11 Stockdale
12 McCloskey
13 Cave
14 Gilroy
15 Piutau

16 Herring, 17 McCall, 18 Ah You, 19 Treadwell, 20 Rea, 21 Marshall, 22 McPhillips, 23 Lyttle

*tweaked as per FF's revelation regarding Reidy.

Of course Kiss will doubtless rotate as is his want.

That backline would cause Leinster problems if they got some bloody ball.

Zzippy · 03-01-2018 5:41pm

Buer wrote: »

At the rate he's going, John Cooney will potentially have more starts for Ulster than he made in his entire Connacht career before we reach the end of February.

He probably surpassed his Leinster starts a few weeks ago too. Was sorry to see him leave Connacht but his form really shows the value of moving to get gametime for some players.

Jump_In_Jack · 03-01-2018 6:21pm

bilston wrote: »

I hope Ulster go as strong as possible which IMO would be...

1 Black
2 Best
3 Herbst
4 Henderson
5 O'Connor
6 Deysel
7 Henry
8 Reidy
9 Cooney
10 Lealifilano
11 Stockdale
12 McCloskey
13 Cave
14 Gilroy
15 Piutau

16 Herring, 17 McCall, 18 Ah You, 19 Treadwell, 20 Rea, 21 Marshall, 22 McPhillips, 23 Lyttle

*tweaked as per FF's revelation regarding Reidy.

Of course Kiss will doubtless rotate as is his want wont.

That backline would cause Leinster problems if they got some bloody ball.

Is Luke Marshall out with injury?

Jump_In_Jack · 03-01-2018 6:25pm

jacothelad wrote: »

Without essentially disagreeing with the overall sentiment of your opinion I would point out that Ulster did unluckily have a try over-ruled for something that happens in every ruck and did score before the red card was issued. In fact the violent conduct that led to the red card also reduced Ulster to 14 men as Lealiifano was stretched out on the pitch and Ulster went on to score. It was the second time in a minute that he had been high hit by Arnold but the first one was missed and wasn't such a stupid rash act.

I would imagine that normal thought processes would lead a coach to select the Ulster team something along the lines of the following but this is Kiss we are talking about.

1. Black
2. Herring
3. Herbst
4. O'Connor / Treadwell
5. Henderson
6. Deysel...tho' he may be injured...or Diack...or Ethel's wee sister Agnes.
7. Jones
8. Timoney Knows......... I assume Reidy and Henry are out.

9. Cooney
10. Lealiifano
11. Gilroy
12. McCloskey
13. Cave. I doubt it though. Kiss seems to have an issue with Darren
14. Stockdale
15. Piutau.

16. Best
17. Warwick / McCall
18. Kane / Ah Phuque No
19. Dalton / Treadwell / O'Connor
20. Rea
21. Paul 'Own Try' Marshall
22. Lyttle
23. Trimble.

Wings on wrong sides no?

torqtorq · 03-01-2018 7:23pm

Digifriendly wrote: »

Why can English commentators not pronounce names like Larmour properly?
Miles Harrison makes same error in above clip as BBC News sports presenter did when the same player scored his spectacular try against Munster last week. They make the name sound French. Does no one inform them of proper pronunciation?
BTW Leinster to win comfortably with BP.

Mildly interesting fact.

Northern Ireland has the highest density of people with the surname Larmour in the world, with 1 in every 3,974 persons being called Larmour.

For the Republic of Ireland the ratio is 1 in 208,777.

The retirement of Bowe and Trimble will enable him to move closer to his kin!

bilston · 03-01-2018 7:34pm

torqtorq wrote: »

Digifriendly wrote: »

Why can English commentators not pronounce names like Larmour properly?
Miles Harrison makes same error in above clip as BBC News sports presenter did when the same player scored his spectacular try against Munster last week. They make the name sound French. Does no one inform them of proper pronunciation?
BTW Leinster to win comfortably with BP.

Mildly interesting fact.

Northern Ireland has the highest density of people with the surname Larmour in the world, with 1 in every 3,974 persons being called Larmour.

For the Republic of Ireland the ratio is 1 in 208,777.

The retirement of Bowe and Trimble will enable him to move closer to his kin!

I was going to say that it sounds a lot more like a Northern Irish name. He must have some Ulster blood somewhere!

Buer · 03-01-2018 7:37pm

He must have some Ulster blood somewhere!

He was bound to get a little blood splattered on him when he carved them apart in Belfast, in fairness.

bilston · 03-01-2018 7:50pm

Buer wrote: »

He must have some Ulster blood somewhere!

He was bound to get a little blood splattered on him when he carved them apart in Belfast, in fairness.

What are you talking about Buer? Jordan Larmour didn't play that night. That French kid Lamoore however looked the mutts nutts.

jacothelad · 03-01-2018 10:07pm

thomond2006 wrote: »

They will be sending a weakened side though right?

Ulster only have a weakened side. Les can't abide putting out a team that smacks of logic....:D

bilston wrote: »

I was going to say that it sounds a lot more like a Northern Irish name. He must have some Ulster blood somewhere!

The name is an Ulster Scottish name with origins in Ayrshire, hence the possible prevalence in Ulster and (Dalriada). The name originates from the occupation of being an armourer. Similar derivatives exist in France and England.

Yeah_Right · 04-01-2018 12:10am

arsebiscuits1 wrote: »

It annoys the hell out of me.

I appreciate that it does read like the fancy french pronunciation. But when it's your job to read out names, I'd expect you to do it correctly.

I can even overlook the English commentary effort at POM - O'Mawhny - as it's just accent. But constant and blatant mistakes of ones name is just unprofessional.

I remember a commentator years back insisting on calling Isa Eye-sa Nacewa

Absolutely. It bugs the **** out of me too. Accents are forgivable but make an effort to learn the pronunciation. Listening to some of these "professionals" try to pronounce PI names just wrecks my head. Even BOD mispronounces Isa's surname and he played alongside him FFS!

Former Former · 04-01-2018 12:25am

Yeah_Right wrote: »

Even BOD mispronounces Isa's surname and he played alongside him FFS!

He does that deliberately to get back at Isa for six years of saying "Broyan O'Druscull"

Digifriendly · 04-01-2018 10:16am

When I started this particular mini discussion on mispronunciation little did I think that there were going to be so many posts. Thanks to all for a fascinating take on the subject. As an Ulster fan I hope the said Mr. Larmour or is it Lamoore or Larmore or whatever you call him doesn't repeat his sidestepping brilliance on Saturday. Maybe he is French after all with a touch of rare flair that lights up what can sometimes be pretty dull fare. The way the French are playing at the moment they could be doing with him!

durkadurka · 04-01-2018 3:58pm

FeeeYunnnn Carr

awec · 04-01-2018 7:57pm

Clancy the referee I see.

Hopefully he refrains from the urge of trying to award Leinster a try after the final whistle this time.

sydthebeat · 04-01-2018 7:59pm

awec wrote: »

Clancy the referee I see.

Hopefully he refrains from the urge of trying to award Leinster a try after the final whistle this time.

He doesn't need to, all visiting teams start off at - 7 in the RDS

awec · 04-01-2018 8:00pm

I thought Larmour actually did pronounce his name in that funny french way?

Larmour is a really popular surname up north, I would be absolutely astounded if the BBCNI commentators were calling him the french one without being told to. It'd be like Ryle Nugent mispronouncing Fitzgerald.

Sky commentators also pronounced it the French way, so I assume they've been told to.

awec · 05-01-2018 1:40am

"Ulster will be coming to the RDS with momentum and confidence." says Garry Ringrose

Wee Garry should leave the clichés to people who can at least pick an appropriate one for the circumstances. :pac:

Burkie1203 · 05-01-2018 8:25am

awec wrote: »

"Ulster will be coming to the RDS with momentum and confidence." says Garry Ringrose

Wee Garry should leave the clichés to people who can at least pick an appropriate one for the circumstances. :pac:

Les Kiss should pin that on the Ulster dressingroom wall.

molloyjh · 05-01-2018 9:41am

So I'd hazard a guess at the Leinster team looking something like this:

McGrath Tracy Furlong
Toner Fardy
Murphy Conan Murphy

JGP Byrne
Henshaw Ringrose
Nacewa Larmour Daly

Byrne, Byrne, Bent, Kearney, Timmins, McCarthy, Marsh, Byrne

bilston · 05-01-2018 9:45am

awec wrote: »

"Ulster will be coming to the RDS with momentum and confidence." says Garry Ringrose

Wee Garry should leave the clichés to people who can at least pick an appropriate one for the circumstances. :pac:

To be fair I just read a quote from him on the 42 saying that Stockdale was one of Ulster's "few threats"...

I'm sure that's not exactly what he meant...or maybe it was...

irishfan9 · 05-01-2018 9:57am

05-01-2018 10:04am

awec wrote: »

"Ulster will be coming to the RDS with momentum and confidence." says Garry Ringrose

Wee Garry should leave the clichés to people who can at least pick an appropriate one for the circumstances. :pac:

Or, maybe he saw Ulster win the second half against Munster 24-0 and doesn't immediately look for the negative in everything?

Buer · 05-01-2018 10:11am

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Nick McCarthy start this one. Lowe's performance this week will have the coaches wondering if and how they can squeeze him in. Whilst I was happy enough with JGP against Munster (pretty much solely based on the fact that he appears to have learned how to kick), I think McCarthy can equal him as someone to serve the back line. If they're going to roll the dice with McCarthy on the bench in any European game, it's going to be against Glasgow.

prawnsambo · 05-01-2018 10:48am

Santiago Ashy Caboose wrote: »

Or, maybe he saw Ulster win the second half against Munster 24-0 and doesn't immediately look for the negative in everything?

Or he doesn't read boards and hence can't understand how that could be a bad thing...

05-01-2018 10:51am

Buer wrote: »

I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Nick McCarthy start this one. Lowe's performance this week will have the coaches wondering if and how they can squeeze him in. Whilst I was happy enough with JGP against Munster (pretty much solely based on the fact that he appears to have learned how to kick), I think McCarthy can equal him as someone to serve the back line. If they're going to roll the dice with McCarthy on the bench in any European game, it's going to be against Glasgow.

He kicked infield a bit too much for my liking against Munster, you need those clearing box kicks to go wide. But it was much improved from him overall.

arsebiscuits1 · 05-01-2018 11:04am

bilston wrote: »

To be fair I just read a quote from him on the 42 saying that Stockdale was one of Ulster's "few threats"...

I'm sure that's not exactly what he meant...or maybe it was...

Ha I saw that and wondered.

But if you change "the few" to "a few" the context is a bit different. Easy to get misquoted.

Or he misspoke.

Or he's just telling the truth because we all know it to be true :pac:

irishfan9 · 05-01-2018 12:56pm

Ulster Rugby team to play Leinster, Guinness PRO14, Saturday 6th January, RDS Arena, kick-off 5.35pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; A Trimble, D Cave, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Stewart;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, P Browne, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, J Deysel;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, W Herbst, A O'Connor, N Timoney, J Cooney, J McPhillips, T Bowe.

arsebiscuits1 · 05-01-2018 1:00pm

irishfan9 wrote: »

Ulster Rugby team to play Leinster, Guinness PRO14, Saturday 6th January, RDS Arena, kick-off 5.35pm:
(15-9): C Piutau; A Trimble, D Cave, S McCloskey, J Stockdale; C Lealiifano, J Stewart;
(1-8): C Black, R Best (captain), R Ah You, P Browne, I Henderson, M Rea, S Reidy, J Deysel;
Replacements (16-23): R Herring, K McCall, W Herbst, A O'Connor, N Timoney, J Cooney, J McPhillips, T Bowe.

Decent team. But that pack can be dominated and that half back pairing can be exposed.

Lealiifano has dodgy ribs so I can't see him doing anything other than shuffling the ball on outside him. Especially after a few hits from Jordi (or whoever wears 7

irishfan9 · 05-01-2018 1:02pm

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Jordan Larmour (11)
14. Fergus McFadden (161)
13. Garry Ringrose (43)
12. Robbie Henshaw (19)
11. Barry Daly (17)
10. Ross Byrne (38)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (41)
1. Jack McGrath (122) CAPTAIN
2. James Tracy (54)
3. Tadhg Furlong (75)
4. Devin Toner (208)
5. Scott Fardy (11)
6. Josh Murphy (2)
7. Jordi Murphy (96)
8. Jack Conan (64)

16. Seán Cronin (142)
17. Ed Byrne (16)
18. Andrew Porter (19)
19. Mick Kearney (28)
20. Max Deegan (10)
21. Nick McCarthy (16)
22. Johnny Sexton (142)
23. Noel Reid (92)

thomond2006 · 05-01-2018 1:02pm

Leinster Rugby (caps in brackets):

15. Jordan Larmour (11)
14. Fergus McFadden (161)
13. Garry Ringrose (43)
12. Robbie Henshaw (19)
11. Barry Daly (17)
10. Ross Byrne (38)
9. Jamison Gibson-Park (41)
1. Jack McGrath (122) CAPTAIN
2. James Tracy (54)
3. Tadhg Furlong (75)
4. Devin Toner (208)
5. Scott Fardy (11)
6. Josh Murphy (2)
7. Jordi Murphy (96)
8. Jack Conan (64)

16. SeCronin (142)
17. Ed Byrne (16)
18. Andrew Porter (19)
19. Mick Kearney (28)
20. Max Deegan (10)
21. Nick McCarthy (16)
22. Johnny Sexton (142)
23. Noel Reid (92)

No place for Poison as both JGP and Fardy are included.

Leinster v Ulster Build Up Thread

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