Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

server down · 25-12-2017 08:51PM

tigger123 wrote: »

No, of course not.

But it's the thin edge of the wedge is what I'm saying. The kind of soft permeation of religion in this way makes it more difficult to untangle it from the bigger issues, such as repealing the 8th.

If that were the case then the US would have fewer cultural wars and less religiosity, as there’s a wall between church and state and the U.K. would be more religious beliefs, because there isn’t.

uptherebels · 25-12-2017 08:57PM

pjohnson wrote: »

On one hand I thought you must have been a blast at the dinner table, then realised your rambling on boards. Hope the ready meal was nice.

It was actually had chicken curry, thanks for saying

uptherebels · 25-12-2017 09:00PM

splinter65 wrote: »

But you can’t decide who can and cannot walk into a public ward.
What on earth would make you think that you can?
The hospital have decided they can and indeed invite them too.
Your breathtaking arrogance is astounding.

It's not about being on a ward, it's about approaching people and offering communion to them when they have not asked for it. The arrogance of the church and it's followers that they can do what they like.

splinter65 · 25-12-2017 09:17PM

uptherebels wrote: »

It's not about being on a ward, it's about approaching people and offering communion to them when they have not asked for it. The arrogance of the church and it's followers that they can do what they like.

But we are talking about patients on public wards being approached and asked do they want communion.
A hospital volunteer pushing a trolley may approach you and ask if you would like to buy a newspaper or a bottle of water.
Another hospital volunteer may approach you and ask if you would like to borrow a book from the library.
If the staff think you may be vulnerable you will be approached by a PHN or/and a social worker.
All of these people are arrogant then.
Yes anyone can approach anyone else within reason if they are polite and well meaning.
Because we live in a country where we are free to express ourselves, thank God.

tigger123 · 25-12-2017 09:18PM

server down wrote: »

If that were the case then the US would have fewer cultural wars and less religiosity, as there’s a wall between church and state and the U.K. would be more religious beliefs, because there isn’t.

Perhaps. That is a good point; I think the US fundamentalism is relatively new though. I'm not sure what your point is about the UK.

But with regard to Ireland I don't see what benefit it is to have religion poking it's nose in everywhere. Cribs in hospitals is another part of that.

I actually don't mind cribs tbf, I'm an atheist and I love Christmas. I just think there's a bigger picture here too.

mikemac2 · 25-12-2017 09:31PM

A source told the Irish Times...
A spokeswomen for the HSE said...
Management is...

When I am king the journalists will be forced to put names into their articles.

PeterParker957 · 25-12-2017 09:33PM

The neighbour three doors down has a menorah in her window and the other week asked if it was ok to wish me a happy Hannukah.

Why wouldn't it be ? Nice of her I thought

RasTa · 25-12-2017 09:42PM

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The neighbour three doors down has a menorah in her window and the other week asked if it was ok to wish me a happy Hannukah.

Why wouldn't it be ? Nice of her I thought

Did she not ask you to wear a Yarmulke

PeterParker957 · 25-12-2017 10:03PM

RasTa wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The neighbour three doors down has a menorah in her window and the other week asked if it was ok to wish me a happy Hannukah.

Why wouldn't it be ? Nice of her I thought

Did she not ask you to wear a Yarmulke

I suspect sarcasm but you're bad at it.

RasTa · 25-12-2017 10:19PM

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I suspect sarcasm but you're bad at it.

You would have being ok with her asking though?

PeterParker957 · 25-12-2017 10:54PM

A) I thought they for men only ? And

why would she ask ??? I didn't ask her to midnight mass.

What the militant atheists don't get is the concept of "live and let live".

Il Fascista · 25-12-2017 11:10PM

PeterParker957 wrote: »

A) I thought they for men only ? And why would she ask ??? I didn't ask her to midnight mass.

What the militant atheists don't get is the concept of "live and let live".

They remind me a bit of the moralistic Christians that they're supposedly rebelling against.

server down · 25-12-2017 11:47PM

RasTa wrote: »

You would have being ok with her asking though?

Who’s asking anyone - in the crib scenario - to wear anything.

server down · 25-12-2017 11:48PM

Il Fascista wrote: »

They remind me a bit of the moralistic Christians that they're supposedly rebelling against.

I think I saw something about the most militant atheists often coming from extreme religious backgrounds. A rebellion. Of sorts.

Jerichoholic · 26-12-2017 06:09AM

I hear they wear fedoras too.

26-12-2017 10:10AM

PeterParker957 wrote: »

The neighbour three doors down has a menorah in her window and the other week asked if it was ok to wish me a happy Hannukah.

Why wouldn't it be ? Nice of her I thought

Was her window built by the State, and is it run and managed by State resources?

splinter65 · 26-12-2017 10:40AM

If anyone objecting to the crib could tell me how the crib inconveniences them, or anyone, (apart from offending your sensibilities, which is, I hope we all agree, something nobody else should care about) then I’d love to hear about it.

kravmaga · 26-12-2017 11:11AM

somesoldiers wrote: »

I'd be more worried about all the smokers having a fag outside the hospital entrance on the "smoke free"campus

Was in Beaumont Hospital last week for medical treatment and x-rays, I observed 4 people smoking at main entrance with signage and audio stating its a smoke free campus, what a joke

Beaumont H. management don,t enforce this non smoking rule/policy but are very quick to pander to a complaint about a crib which has been erected at the main entrance for the past 30 yrs since opening.

Bubbaclaus · 26-12-2017 11:39AM

splinter65 wrote: »

If anyone objecting to the lack of a crib could tell me how the crib being in the chapel instead inconveniences them, or anyone, (apart from offending your sensibilities, which is, I hope we all agree, something nobody else should care about) then I’d love to hear about it.

This thread is about people being offended at the lack of a crib. So I fixed your post for you.

splinter65 · 26-12-2017 11:44AM

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

This thread is about people being offended at the lack of a crib. So I fixed your post for you.

I know what the thread is about.
You “fixed” my post because you’ve spent 1/2 hour trying to think of an answer that doesn’t involve admitting that your “feelings” are hurt by some painted plaster figures in a wooden box, and you can’t think of anything.
Well done .
You win.

amtc · 26-12-2017 11:49AM

Blanchardstown Hospital..connolly...is a smoke free campus. Signs and a recorded announcement. Yet lots of smoking . Best i ever saw was a woman smoking outside the mater in her gown attached to two drips on stands!

In cribs, i was in town twice this week with my friend and his 1, 2 and 4 year old. My friend is an atheist, currently not even happy with having to pick an Educate Together school. But we went into the GPO and the joy on the children's faces seeing the crib!

Two other things:

There is an old tradition to take some straw from the crib and put in your purse as it means you'll never be short of money during the year. Handy!

There is a chapel in ESB headquarters for staff. Apparently much used. Odd but true.

amtc · 26-12-2017 11:49AM

Blanchardstown Hospital..connolly...is a smoke free campus. Signs and a recorded announcement. Yet lots of smoking . Best i ever saw was a woman smoking outside the mater in her gown attached to two drips on stands!

In cribs, i was in town twice this week with my friend and his 1, 2 and 4 year old. My friend is an atheist, currently not even happy with having to pick an Educate Together school. But we went into the GPO and the joy on the children's faces seeing the crib!

Two other things:

There is an old tradition to take some straw from the crib and put in your purse as it means you'll never be short of money during the year. Handy!

There is a chapel in ESB headquarters for staff. Apparently much used. Odd but true.

server down · 26-12-2017 12:35PM

AndrewJRenko wrote: »

Was her window built by the State, and is it run and managed by State resources?

Are you saying that you would ban the menorah in council housing?

Actually adds another reason to not copy the US and its pathologies.

DickSwiveller · 26-12-2017 12:43PM

Wow, what a bunch of losers.

Billy86 · 26-12-2017 12:48PM

Army_of_One wrote: »

No.

Seriously.

Think about it.

A virgin birth(2000 yrs before IVF) of a women with a wood cutter. The son goes on to make the biggest capitalist discovery ever(turning water into wine, $$$$$) and then dies.Gets re-animated as a corpse 3 days later and causes mayhem for 100's and 100's of years.

Fast forward to now and those same believers belong to an organistation thats actively protected child abusers and facilitaed that abuse.

BTW the 24th/25th celebrate older gods than yours.

Yeah, the story of God/Jesus is a fairytale just as much as the story of Muhammad, Abraham parting the red sea etc. Still that doesn't take away from the fact that the symbolism behind it is something a lot of people draw 'strength' from (the trick being that that's usually the same place some members of any given faith draw hatred of others not like them/non-believers/etc from) and given that we do know placebos work to an extent, there is no harm in keeping the likes of the cribs up to give hope etc to the dying to.

It's also not a matter of 'who got there first' re Dec 24th/25th, that's not something people ask themselves if indulging in their faith. There are more Christians in Ireland than any other faith (or non faith) by a wide margin.

And I'm not religious in the slightest to clear that up. There's more than a good bit of bad blood between my immediate family and the Catholic Church over the last 20 years, and I'm not a fan of organised religions in general, but the numbers of followers of organised religions are dwindling. That said it's not something you could or should attempt to stamp out or forcibly remove, especially too quickly, because that tends to lead to a backlash.

Kind of a horrible irony to say this given the subject matter, but let the religious people die out peacefully on their own, with their faith. I can say for one anyway that the vast, vast majority of religious people very rarely look to meddle with my life or choice to believe in none of them. And I wouldn't count a chunk of plastic in a hospital for a day or two to be doing so whatsoever.

Billy86 · 26-12-2017 12:55PM

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

If I was in a Jewish or Muslim hospital, I wouldn't be offended by a menorah or prayer mats.

Though the irony here is certain posters would be absolutely apoplectic to see state funds going toward a symbol of a Muslim holiday in Beaumont!

DickSwiveller · 26-12-2017 12:57PM

Billy86 wrote: »

Yeah, the story of God/Jesus is a fairytale just as much as the story of Muhammad, Abraham parting the red sea etc. Still that doesn't take away from the fact that the symbolism behind it is something a lot of people draw 'strength' from (the trick being that that's usually the same place some members of any given faith draw hatred of others not like them/non-believers/etc from) and given that we do know placebos work to an extent, there is no harm in keeping the likes of the cribs up to give hope etc to the dying to.

It's also not a matter of 'who got there first' re Dec 24th/25th, that's not something people ask themselves if indulging in their faith. There are more Christians in Ireland than any other faith (or non faith) by a wide margin.

And I'm not religious in the slightest to clear that up. There's more than a good bit of bad blood between my immediate family and the Catholic Church over the last 20 years, and I'm not a fan of organised religions in general, but the numbers of followers of organised religions are dwindling. That said it's not something you could or should attempt to stamp out or forcibly remove, especially too quickly, because that tends to lead to a backlash.

Kind of a horrible irony to say this given the subject matter, but let the religious people die out peacefully on their own, with their faith. I can say for one anyway that the vast, vast majority of religious people very rarely look to meddle with my life or choice to believe in none of them. And I wouldn't count a chunk of plastic in a hospital for a day or two to be doing so whatsoever.

Why don't trendy atheists understand that for many religious people their faith is not fundamentally and absolutely about belief in God, but about so much more. Is it a bad thing that people form social bonds of solidarity, increasingly absent in a consumerist, materialist age? Why mock people who get great comfort from meeting others and feeling apart of something. I -not overly religious- attended evening carols in my local church on Saturday and was moved by the whole occasion. My grandparents are in their early 90's and gain great strength from their involvement in their local church. Why mock these people, calling them delusional and saying they believe in sky-fairies? Would you rather we all live empty lives, sitting at home watching television all day?

Donald Trump · 26-12-2017 01:13PM

Army_of_One wrote: »

No.

Seriously.

Think about it.

A virgin birth(2000 yrs before IVF) of a women with a wood cutter. The son goes on to make the biggest capitalist discovery ever(turning water into wine, $$$$$) and then dies.Gets re-animated as a corpse 3 days later and causes mayhem for 100's and 100's of years.

Fast forward to now and those same believers belong to an organistation thats actively protected child abusers and facilitaed that abuse.

BTW the 24th/25th celebrate older gods than yours.

Ahhh, that's cute. You've just discovered/realised something for the first time, assume you're the first person to realise it and you want to share with all the adults so that they can tell you what a clever little boy you are.

And yet, clever an all as you are, while making snidey and condescending remarks against Catholics, you justify celebrating 24th/25th for people who believe in older gods? So anyone celebrating the birth of Jesus is to be derided but someone celebrating the day Vulcan had a massive **** or some other random shite is grand?

Get a life. Or at least a hobby.

splinter65 · 26-12-2017 01:21PM

DickSwiveller wrote: »

Why don't trendy atheists understand that for many religious people their faith is not fundamentally and absolutely about belief in God, but about so much more. Is it a bad thing that people form social bonds of solidarity, increasingly absent in a consumerist, materialist age? Why mock people who get great comfort from meeting others and feeling apart of something. I -not overly religious- attended evening carols in my local church on Saturday and was moved by the whole occasion. My grandparents are in their early 90's and gain great strength from their involvement in their local church. Why mock these people, calling them delusional and saying they believe in sky-fairies? Would you rather we all live empty lives, sitting at home watching television all day?

People crave approval. Approval is found mostly in conforming to whatever way the prevailing wind is blowing.
Currently the trend is to be as insulting and dismissive as possible of any belief system (as long as it’s not Islam, Islam is out of bounds mysteriously, I think it’s becsuse Muslims are mostly brown skinned) whilst simultaneously crying if anyone “offends” you with “hate speech” ( hate speech is anything right wing, conservative, anything basically we used to accept as fact).

26-12-2017 01:31PM

Donald Trump wrote: »

Ahhh, that's cute. You've just discovered/realised something for the first time, assume you're the first person to realise it and you want to share with all the adults so that they can tell you what a clever little boy you are.

And yet, clever an all as you are, while making snidey and condescending remarks against Catholics, you justify celebrating 24th/25th for people who believe in older gods? So anyone celebrating the birth of Jesus is to be derided but someone celebrating the day Vulcan had a massive **** or some other random shite is grand?

Get a life. Or at least a hobby.

It fairness the pagan random sh*te was justed replaced with christian random sh*te. Both random sh*te though.

Do you repsect all religions ? Even ones that you think are just some "other random sh*te". How did you decide your random sh*te was better than all the other random sh*te ?

Crib Controversy at Beaumont Hospital

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