IreExit

fly_agaric · 19-12-2017 10:40pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

the Corp Tax

So we should leave the EU in case the French and Germans take a stand + make arrogant piss taking Tech companies here pay a fair amount of tax??

If we were to "Ire-exit" in a row over tax harmonisation or more cases like Apple we would just be cutting off our nose to spite our face. The same companies our politicians stick their necks out for now would be the first rats off the sinking ship if we actually left the EU over the tax they pay here.

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:40pm

bear1 wrote: »

That had nothing to do with Brexit.

Says you:D

4068ac1elhodqr · 19-12-2017 10:41pm

bear1 wrote: »

Right so you can't actually provide proof that the 3 biggest parties in Italy are looking for an eu exit.

You'd better tell the traders at Powers towers and across the global exchanges that they have their odds wrong.

The largest party could well be Five Star in 2018's election. They may have said they aren't technically anti-Europe (that helps with getting votes), but they sure are 'eurosceptic' (subtle difference) and of course 'anti-establishment'.

Party leader Luigi Di Maio said he would hold referendums on membership of the eurozone if elected, and urged Brussels to look seriously at financial reform. I.e. he could use the idea of referendums as a 'tool of persuasion'.

Now remember what happened when Cameroon (now in China, of course, away from the chaos) called one? With all confidence of victory, to gain popularity, and ease critics.

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:42pm

fly_agaric wrote: »

So we should leave the EU in case the French and Germans take a stand + make arrogant piss taking Tech companies here pay a fair amount of tax??

If we were to "Ire-exit" in a row over tax harmonisation or more cases like Apple we would just be cutting off our nose to spite our face. The same companies our politicians stick their necks out for would probably be the first rats off the sinking ship if we actually left the EU over the tax they pay here.

Look they will all jump ship when they get a better deal somewhere else, its inevitable do you really think they owe Ireland anything? That is apart from tax

19-12-2017 10:44pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

maryishere wrote: »

+1. Funny how after Brexit the French sent the bulldozers in to Calais, and there is not a word of it now.

You mean Calais where there were only Syrian refugees & had only been there since the start of Syrian war?

Haha you have got to be having a laugh!

I think he means Calais the place where economic migrants, mostly from everywhere but Syria, ignoring the help of the French and seeking asylum in UK despite residing in a prosperous Western European country with no war going on. Also the same people who through bricks at lorries and cars if they dared to drive through their illegal barricades.

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:44pm

Dangelo Disgusting Roller-skate wrote: »

You'd better tell the traders at Powers towers and across the global exchanges that they have their odds wrong.

The largest party could well be Five Star in 2018's election. They may have said they aren't technically anti-Europe (that helps with getting votes), but they sure are 'eurosceptic' (subtle difference) and of course 'anti-establishment'.

Party leader Luigi Di Maio said he would hold referendums on membership of the eurozone if elected, and urged Brussels to look seriously at financial reform. I.e. he could use the idea of referendums as a 'tool of persuasion'.

Now remember what happened when Cameroon (now in China, of course, away from the chaos) called one? With all confidence of victory, to gain popularity, and ease critics.

The Italians are sick to death of seeing whats happening to their country all because Merkel opened her big mouth & invited the world

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:45pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Haha you have got to be having a laugh!

I think he means Calais the place where economic migrants, mostly from everywhere but Syria, ignoring the help of the French and seeking asylum in UK despite residing in a prosperous Western European country with no war going on. Also the same people who through bricks at lorries and cars if they dared to drive through their illegal barricades.

I know but thats what politicians & MSM were trying to have the dumb dumbs believe

maryishere · 19-12-2017 10:46pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

You mean Calais where there were only Syrian refugees & had only been there since the start of Syrian war?

I mean mean the Calais in France which was a ghetto for people of all nationalities tryting to enter the UK illegially, since the 1990's. The mix of nationalities has changed over time, with Kurdish Iraqis being the largest group initially but by 2014 a growing number of people were also from the Horn of Africa and Sudan.

Not a word about it now.

sameoldname · 19-12-2017 10:46pm

Deleted User wrote: »

As for Farage, I have yet to see anyone provide any real opposition to his arguments other than to call him a racist and then not back up the claim with one jot of evidence.

When you stand in front of a huge poster of migrants implying they're all heading to Britain when they weren't and using that as a reason to "take back control of our borders" to only go and then say that you'd leave the UK's only land border open...

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he's not racist but he sure is full of utter s**t...

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:47pm

maryishere wrote: »

I mean mean the Calais in France which was a ghetto for people of all nationalities tryting to enter the UK illegially, since the 1990's. The mix of nationalities has changed over time, with Kurdish Iraqis being the largest group initially but by 2014 a growing number of people were also from the Horn of Africa and Sudan.

Not a word about it now.

We know that, but those who believe that politicians dont lie or get all their news from MSM were being told that it was full of Syrians

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:49pm

sameoldname wrote: »

When you stand in front of a huge poster of migrants implying they're all heading to Britain when they weren't and using that as a reason to "take back control of our borders" to only go and then say that you'd leave the UK's only land border open...

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he's not racist but he sure is full of utter s**t...

OK not everyone on the poster was going to the UK but probably a lot more than that. Probably should have had panoramic view when taking the pic

maryishere · 19-12-2017 10:49pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

We know that, but those who believe that politicians dont lie or get all their news from MSM were being told that it was full of Syrians

Write English.

4068ac1elhodqr · 19-12-2017 10:50pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

The Italians are sick to death of seeing whats happening to their country all because Merkel opened her big mouth & invited the world

The South is has always been banjaxed, the extra influx hasn't helped, apart from the traffickers business opportunities. From March 18 onwards will be interesting to see how the extra dingy/taxi trips coincide with election choices.

Italy exiting could have a bigger impact on Europe than the UK, it's effect may not be felt here for years, but add-in the CorpTax factor and further expansion of the EU, then it gets more complicated.

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:53pm

Dangelo Disgusting Roller-skate wrote: »

The South is has always been banjaxed, the extra influx hasn't helped, apart from the traffickers business opportunities. From March 18 onwards will be interesting to see how the extra dingy/taxi trips coincide with election choices.

Italy exiting could have a bigger impact on Europe than the UK, it's effect may not be felt here for years, but add-in the CorpTax factor and further expansion of the EU, then it gets more complicated.

Its also good that Italy caught the NGO's being complicate with the traffickers. The Italian people see that its more than just refugees

solodeogloria · 19-12-2017 10:53pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I find it odd in the last EU referendum in Ireland that most people's default view was to vote for whatever was being proposed, unless they had a good reason not to.

For me it makes more sense to vote in favour of the current status quo, unless there is a more convincing argument.

I think it just reveals a certain reverence for the bureaucrats and a lack of real critical thinking when it comes to Germans in smart suits. We seem to trust them instinctively and give them way too much credit for the way they go about their business.

As for Farage, I have yet to see anyone provide any real opposition to his arguments other than to call him a racist and then not back up the claim with one jot of evidence.

Good evening!

Quite - I think there's a lack of enquiry, criticism and knowledge into what the European Union aspires to be.

I voted remain in the European Union referendum in Britain. In hindsight I think I just voted remain because the status quo was grand and I wasn't much bothered to take the risk.

However, the fundamental flaw in my thinking at that time was that staying in the European Union meant that things would merely remain the same. That's not true. The European Union is constantly seeking more and more and more control from member states. If you look over at the Politics forum, you'll see that the Irish Government have handed over control in respect to defence, and on defence spending. The measure is PESCO. Most people wouldn't have heard of it. The dearth of debate in the Dáil was incredible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msbVyluc7Q

When the Táiniste was questioned by Richard Boyd Barrett on the constitutionality of the bill (because Article 29.4.9 prevents implementing Article 42 of TFEU which contains the provisions for PESCO. This was added because of the Lisbon Treaty) and the legal advice that the Government have received, he was basically told that he can't have it. What kind of democracy is that?

People are right to be sceptical of the aims of the European Union, and they are right at a minimum to want to put controls on the amount of power that the European Union can exercise over member states. That doesn't mean that Ireland should leave, but if the European Union is asking for more and more powers to be conferred by amending your constitution the onus shouldn't be justify why you challenge the almighty European institutions in Brussels, it should be why the hell do you want us to modify the constitution to give you this power?

Euroscepticism is sensible. People like to claim that people who question the EU are idiots. In reality - Irish people don't question the EU enough before handing over a lot of control to it. Particularly in referenda where they ask for more powers.

This lofty Euro-federalist idea isn't just with the fairies. There are people like Martin Schulz - former president of the European Parliament and leader of the SPD party in Germany asking for a United States of Europe. Guy Verhofstadt's thinking is much the same.

Much thanks,
solodeogloria

19-12-2017 10:56pm

sameoldname wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

As for Farage, I have yet to see anyone provide any real opposition to his arguments other than to call him a racist and then not back up the claim with one jot of evidence.

When you stand in front of a huge poster of migrants implying they're all heading to Britain when they weren't and using that as a reason to "take back control of our borders" to only go and then say that you'd leave the UK's only land border open...

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and say maybe he's not racist but he sure is full of utter s**t...

That is the only thing people use to call him racist and I still can't for the life of me get a decent explanation as to how it is racist. It was a real photo of people crossing the borders in the EU. Nothing doctored or photoshopped. No reference to their race. But it made Guardian columnists feel vaguely uncomfortable so........."Racist"!

19-12-2017 10:57pm

backspin. wrote: »

I believe immigration was the reason brexit happened. In particular Angela Merkels decision to let 1 million migrants into Germany spooked people in the UK, that and the people arriving at Calais. The vote was close. Merkel's recklessness indirectly lead to brexit imo.

This is just more of the Brexit lies and scapegoating of the EU. Never do the Europhobes mention that it was a British government which, in the largest EU enlargement of all in 2004 when 10 countries including Poland joined the EU, decided to not accept an EU ban on free movement from those countries and allowed them to come to Britain. British businesses wanted the new workers, and wanted that labour to keep labour costs down. If anybody "sold" British society down the river, it was domestic British ruling elites. They fúck up, and then blame the EU when the plebs are not impressed with their fúckup- post-collectivisation Stalin would be very proud of that purge-style shift of blame.

For the average EU-blaming British rightwing ignoramus, this never happened. The immigration is all the fault of the EU. Similarly, the enormous numbers of people who arrived in Britain after WWII from far flung British colonies like India, the West Indies and Pakistan is all blamed on the EU. With dregs like the British rightwing, it is always the damned foreigner who must be blamed.

'By contrast to most EU Member States, the UK decided not to derogate from the free movement of workers during the seven-year period with respect to nationals of the countries that joined the EU in 2004...' (Source)

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 10:59pm

solodeogloria wrote: »

. The measure is PESCO. Most people wouldn't have heard of it. The dearth of debate in the Dáil was incredible.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_msbVyluc7Q

When the Táiniste was questioned by Richard Boyd Barrett on the constitutionality of the bill (because Article 29.4.9 prevents implementing Article 42 of TFEU which contains the provisions for PESCO. This was added because of the Lisbon Treaty) and the legal advice that the Government have received, he was basically told that he can't have it. What kind of democracy is that?

Nigel Farage called the EU out on the EU army back in 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI5_pMvLZd8

ohnonotgmail · 19-12-2017 11:00pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is just more of the Brexit lies and scapegoating of the EU. Never do the Europhobes mention that it was a British government which, in the largest EU enlargement of all in 2004 when 10 countries including Poland joined the EU, decided to not accept an EU ban on free movement from those countries and allowed them to come to Britain. British businesses wanted the new workers, and wanted that labour to keep labour costs down. If anybody "sold" British society down the river, it was domestic British ruling elites. They fúck up, and then blame the EU when the plebs are not impressed with their fúckup- post-collectivisation Stalin would be very proud of that purge-style shift of blame.

For the average EU-blaming British rightwing ignoramus, this never happened. The immigration is all the fault of the EU. Similarly, the enormous numbers of people who arrived in Britain after WWII from far flung British colonies like India, the West Indies and Pakistan is all blamed on the EU. With dregs like the British rightwing, it is always the damned foreigner who must be blamed.

well it has to be the foreigners fault. it certainly couldn't be their own inadequacy.

RasTa · 19-12-2017 11:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the only thing people use to call him racist and I still can't for the life of me get a decent explanation as to how it is racist. It was a real photo of people crossing the borders in the EU. Nothing doctored or photoshopped. No reference to their race. But it made Guardian columnists feel vaguely uncomfortable so........."Racist"!

If you need a reason as to why below is racist then you're a complete moron

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 11:04pm

Heres NF calling out Juncker on the future of the EU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SM-FopQEuOA&t=86s

sameoldname · 19-12-2017 11:04pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the only thing people use to call him racist and I still can't for the life of me get a decent explanation as to how it is racist. It was a real photo of people crossing the borders in the EU. Nothing doctored or photoshopped. No reference to their race. But it made Guardian columnists feel vaguely uncomfortable so........."Racist"!

Tell me, why is he standing in front of that image? Why does that image inspire "Take back control of our borders"? Who didn't know what those people in the image were?

backspin. · 19-12-2017 11:05pm

Deleted User wrote: »

This is just more of the Brexit lies and scapegoating of the EU. Never do the Europhobes mention that it was a British government which, in the largest EU enlargement of all in 2004 when 10 countries including Poland joined the EU, decided to not accept an EU ban on free movement from those countries and allowed them to come to Britain. British businesses wanted the new workers, and wanted that labour to keep labour costs down. If anybody "sold" British society down the river, it was domestic British ruling elites. They fúck up, and then blame the EU when the plebs are not impressed with their fúckup- post-collectivisation Stalin would be very proud of that purge-style shift of blame.

For the average EU-blaming British rightwing ignoramus, this never happened. The immigration is all the fault of the EU. Similarly, the enormous numbers of people who arrived in Britain after WWII from far flung British colonies like India, the West Indies and Pakistan is all blamed on the EU. With dregs like the British rightwing, it is always the damned foreigner who must be blamed.

Do you seriously believe what Merkel did in 2015 didn't influence the British vote? Consider the media reaction from the likes of the daily mail and all the brexiters. Merkel's actions were manna from heaven for them.

19-12-2017 11:05pm

RasTa wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the only thing people use to call him racist and I still can't for the life of me get a decent explanation as to how it is racist. It was a real photo of people crossing the borders in the EU. Nothing doctored or photoshopped. No reference to their race. But it made Guardian columnists feel vaguely uncomfortable so........."Racist"!

If you need a reason as to why below is racist then you're a complete moron

Well then I guess I am a complete moron. Guilty as charged. Please explain to me how it is racist. It is a real photo of unvetted undocumented migrants making their way from South East Europe to north and west Europe, crossing borders with ease. How is it racist? What is the race reference exactly?

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 11:05pm

RasTa wrote: »

If you need a reason as to why below is racist then you're a complete moron

Whats racist about that? Where do you think all those people were heading?

maryishere · 19-12-2017 11:05pm

It is not racist to want to have some sort of control over immigration. Every self respecting country in the world has it.

jimmycrackcorm · 19-12-2017 11:05pm

solodeogloria wrote: »

That doesn't mean that Ireland should leave, but if the European Union is asking for more and more powers to be conferred by amending your constitution the onus shouldn't be justify why you challenge the almighty European institutions in Brussels, it should be why the hell do you want us to modify the constitution to give you this power?

Wait, what are we changing?

BillyBobBS · 19-12-2017 11:06pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Some of his speeches or replies back to MEP's in Brussels are quality viewing. I dont get the whole Ireland would be a 3rd world country without the EU. Well we have a bigger debt than Ethiopia by a long way having joined the EU

People have their heads buried in the sand in regards the EU. They have drank the cool aid form far too long.

Help!!!! · 19-12-2017 11:07pm

sameoldname wrote: »

Tell me, why is he standing in front of that image? Why does that image inspire "Take back control of our borders"? Who didn't know what those people in the image were?

Have you seen the streams of migrants like in that picture coming to Europe?

19-12-2017 11:08pm

sameoldname wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

That is the only thing people use to call him racist and I still can't for the life of me get a decent explanation as to how it is racist. It was a real photo of people crossing the borders in the EU. Nothing doctored or photoshopped. No reference to their race. But it made Guardian columnists feel vaguely uncomfortable so........."Racist"!

Tell me, why is he standing in front of that image? Why does that image inspire "Take back control of our borders"? Who didn't know what those people in the image were?

It shows undocumented migrants crossing borders all across the EU. In other words, it shows no control or vetting of border policy. It show refugee laws being made a mockery of. There is nothing racist in highlighting these issues. We either have rules or we don't.

IreExit

Comments