Disposable Income Gone

NIMAN · 05-12-2017 3:58pm

We are creating a new generation (or two) who think that the State will provide them with everything in life. It might not be a lot, but it'll be enough.

Well, these folk may have a rude awakening in the future, when we don't have enough taxpayers to pay for all the pensioners.

Only hope I can see is a universal income given to everyone.

draiochtanois · 05-12-2017 4:10pm

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Shenshen · 05-12-2017 4:30pm

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If I hear another person tell me the reason most of my generation will never afford a house is takeaway coffee I'm gonna smack them with my avocado toast.

The economy has been stacked in such a way that if you don't come from a family with money, you're going to be scraping by all your life. Wages are dreadful, rents and house prices are sky high. Let me drink my mother flipping coffee so I can summon the will to live in this late stage capitalist dystopia, thanks.

It's all about choices. You choose coffee, others choose home ownership. And yes, some people from rich families or with fantastic incomes can actually choose both. But the way I understand it, we just cannot all come from rich families, the world just doesn't work that way.

Idbatterim · 05-12-2017 4:41pm

NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »

If I hear another person tell me the reason most of my generation will never afford a house is takeaway coffee I'm gonna smack them with my avocado toast.

The economy has been stacked in such a way that if you don't come from a family with money, you're going to be scraping by all your life. Wages are dreadful, rents and house prices are sky high. Let me drink my mother flipping coffee so I can summon the will to live in this late stage capitalist dystopia, thanks.

the gf was in starbucks the other day and paid E4.60 for a take away coffee. I am not saying 1-2 for a coffee is a joke. But this E3 and plus is a joke!

pilly · 05-12-2017 4:45pm

DivingDuck wrote: »

Some people get great value out of a feeling of safety, though, or the knowledge that their death will bring something positive to their loved ones as well as just pain.

Hmm, I'd rather the sun on my back thanks all the same. :P

My parents now go away at least 3 times a year and I've told them that I don't want to see a penny when they're gone, I want them to enjoy it while they have their health.

Also remember folks, if you get you your old age and you need nursing care, the state will just take all your savings anyway.

Don't get me wrong I do have life insurance but I definitely won't be keeping any lump sum in the bank.

draiochtanois · 05-12-2017 4:45pm

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pilly · 05-12-2017 4:47pm

Shenshen wrote: »

It's all about choices. You choose coffee, others choose home ownership. And yes, some people from rich families or with fantastic incomes can actually choose both. But the way I understand it, we just cannot all come from rich families, the world just doesn't work that way.

Now get off the stage, coffee is not going to pay the deposit for a house no matter what way you look at it. I could do the maths but I know you're just being facetious.

Billy86 · 05-12-2017 4:52pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Cost of buying a jar of coffee every second Monday for those five years = €650

So basically, the difference is one pretty good full time annual wage (€32,280) per decade; pretty startling!

Shenshen · 05-12-2017 4:57pm

pilly wrote: »

Now get off the stage, coffee is not going to pay the deposit for a house no matter what way you look at it. I could do the maths but I know you're just being facetious.

No, but I did experience how much the little things actually do add up to not too long ago.
We used to be on two incomes, mortgage, two cars, perfectly normal life. And as many people here said, I struggled trying to have a bit left over at the end of the month.

Then we unexpectedly went down to 1 income when my husband lost his job. All of a sudden, the income I had previously had nothing over from at the end of the month had to cover all bills and the mortgage every month. So I sat down and drew up a budget.
And guess what? Not only did it stretch to cover all this, I am now actually saving money on top of it. My income has increased by about 3% in that time, and I now drive an electric car rather than a petrol one, but other than that it was changing the small things that mattered.
Not doing a big weekly shop (you always end up throwing stuff out), shopping in Lidl and only going to Tesco for the odd item I can't get in Lidl (yeast, for example), takeaways only every other week rather than twice a week, bring home-made lunches to work, buy clothes/comic books/other luxury items only once a month as a treat, etc.

Each of these items is ridiculously small looked at in isolation, but taken together and over a month, they add up significantly.
I supposed I previously just didn't have the motivation, thinking we'd always be comfortable. Now, I do worry that we may run out of money, so I really, really make sure to put money aside each month.

draiochtanois · 05-12-2017 5:09pm

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Hollister11 · 05-12-2017 5:10pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

Buying 2 of those every day for 5 years = €16790

But most people buy 1 a day when they do buy coffee. . There also next working/out everyday of the year, so it's a false analysis.

pilly · 05-12-2017 5:22pm

Shenshen wrote: »

No, but I did experience how much the little things actually do add up to not too long ago.
We used to be on two incomes, mortgage, two cars, perfectly normal life. And as many people here said, I struggled trying to have a bit left over at the end of the month.

Then we unexpectedly went down to 1 income when my husband lost his job. All of a sudden, the income I had previously had nothing over from at the end of the month had to cover all bills and the mortgage every month. So I sat down and drew up a budget.
And guess what? Not only did it stretch to cover all this, I am now actually saving money on top of it. My income has increased by about 3% in that time, and I now drive an electric car rather than a petrol one, but other than that it was changing the small things that mattered.
Not doing a big weekly shop (you always end up throwing stuff out), shopping in Lidl and only going to Tesco for the odd item I can't get in Lidl (yeast, for example), takeaways only every other week rather than twice a week, bring home-made lunches to work, buy clothes/comic books/other luxury items only once a month as a treat, etc.

Each of these items is ridiculously small looked at in isolation, but taken together and over a month, they add up significantly.
I supposed I previously just didn't have the motivation, thinking we'd always be comfortable. Now, I do worry that we may run out of money, so I really, really make sure to put money aside each month.

I get all that, I went from a salary of 70k to zero back in 2008 when things crashed and it has caused to me to be more careful alright. But to state that it's a choice between coffee or a house is definitely over simplifying the issues as you've outlined above.

Just bugs me the way people judge others all the time. Same thing about the bottled water, you're out in the car, dying of the thirst, what do you do? Run into someone's house and ask can you have a sup of water? No, you go into a shop and buy a bottle of water. It's a hell of lot better than buying some sugar filled drink.

People always bought drinks for in a car or when walking or whatever, it's just changed toward water, which is a good thing.

There's an awful of lot of older people looking down on the younger generation with the attitude of "it's all your own fault". It's patronising.

And I'm an "older" person.

DivingDuck · 05-12-2017 5:29pm

pilly wrote: »

There's an awful of lot of older people looking down on the younger generation with the attitude of "it's all your own fault". It's patronising.

I don't think there's been any period in history where the older generation haven't looked down on the younger generation and judged them as irresponsible and feckless.

Hollister11 · 05-12-2017 5:31pm

pilly wrote: »

I get all that, I went from a salary of 70k to zero back in 2008 when things crashed and it has caused to me to be more careful alright. But to state that it's a choice between coffee or a house is definitely over simplifying the issues as you've outlined above.

Just bugs me the way people judge others all the time. Same thing about the bottled water, you're out in the car, dying of the thirst, what do you do? Run into someone's house and ask can you have a sup of water? No, you go into a shop and buy a bottle of water. It's a hell of lot better than buying some sugar filled drink.

People always bought drinks for in a car or when walking or whatever, it's just changed toward water, which is a good thing.

There's an awful of lot of older people looking down on the younger generation with the attitude of "it's all your own fault". It's patronising.

And I'm an "older" person.

Tbf its the older generations fault for costing ireland the last 10 years of growth. There was always prospects for previous generations with good money avaliable, but alot of that(not all) has bee obliterated.

I'm 21, in my final year of college, and the main reason I'm looking forward to getting a wage in the future is to grow it.

Ubbquittious · 05-12-2017 5:32pm

pilly wrote: »

Just bugs me the way people judge others all the time. Same thing about the bottled water, you're out in the car, dying of the thirst, what do you do? Run into someone's house and ask can you have a sup of water? No, you go into a shop and buy a bottle of water. It's a hell of lot better than buying some sugar filled drink.

There used to be public taps around and even public toilets at one point but most of those are gone now. People were enamoured by the money-spinner created by forcing people to pay for those instead because it created jobs, made the figures look good and all that sh1te. But when all the bottled water is being imported by some multinational who only wants to employ robots that argument goes out the window

neirbloom · 05-12-2017 5:33pm

grahambo wrote: »

This is par for the course all over the country and indeed the world.

I'm just out of a long term relationship (had a kid and mortgage with the other person)
I ended up moving out, and I'm living back at home because I literally cannot afford to rent a place....

I'm 34 years old with a very good Job....

15 years ago I'd have been able to at least get somewhere to rent at a decent price.
It's pathetic.

There needs to be a world war to force the distribution of wealth away from the 1%'ers to the average Joe.
IE a massive destruction of wealth

Look at the US in the 50's, 60's, 70's and 80's. The quality of life they had at the time was the "American Dream", no one has that now.

Its far more prelavent here than in other countries. I have friends in Australia and the US who can offord to live on their own, work one or even two jobs at a time and still seems to be able to save some in the bank and can enjoy going out maybe 3 times a week never mind once or twice a month. Very seldom now do I see much of my friends out on a weekend now unlike how it was 10 years ago.

We are really just living by means here in Ireland with not much to show at the end of a paycheck .

Idbatterim · 05-12-2017 5:36pm

pilly wrote: »

I get all that, I went from a salary of 70k to zero back in 2008 when things crashed and it has caused to me to be more careful alright. But to state that it's a choice between coffee or a house is definitely over simplifying the issues as you've outlined above.

Just bugs me the way people judge others all the time. Same thing about the bottled water, you're out in the car, dying of the thirst, what do you do? Run into someone's house and ask can you have a sup of water? No, you go into a shop and buy a bottle of water. It's a hell of lot better than buying some sugar filled drink.

People always bought drinks for in a car or when walking or whatever, it's just changed toward water, which is a good thing.

There's an awful of lot of older people looking down on the younger generation with the attitude of "it's all your own fault". It's patronising.

And I'm an "older" person.

I always have a few small bottles of water in the boot...

Permabear · 05-12-2017 5:47pm

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cantdecide · 05-12-2017 5:50pm

I was working full time for a miserable recessionary wage, living at home (at now age 36), running my [cheap and economical car] and funding my part time degree, don't smoke and basically don't drink and the difference between that and giving up all ambition was about €45/wk. I essentially worked full time to avoid a gap in my CV (considering that taking the business course has yet to pay off). No amount of budgeting and penny pinching would help. I was too poorly paid and too single.

I feel I'm proof that it doesn't take desperately bad circumstances or desperately bad luck to end up with little or nothing. I really understand why some people give up and ride the system. I've found myself out of work now (in my last year of college) and am anxious to get back to work but rationally speaking, unless I get lucky enough to find a job that leads to a wage in excess of €30k with the promise of hanging onto it for the foreseeable future, I'll be stuck at home with my ma past age 40. Frankly, being demoralised by still enduring a financial crisis and now having a housing crisis to contend with would be a very justifiable emotion.

LirW · 05-12-2017 6:01pm

Also where I love the tap water isn't particularly great. I have a water filter which makes it marginally better. Some of my neighbors only use it for cooking but get bottled water for drinking (can't blame them).
When I have family over they usually get themselves the big 5l water bottles because they find the water pretty bad in my house.

But yeah, I share pillys sentiment.
I'd be one of the younger generation and we're both good with money but even then we find ourselves in tight situations sometimes. These things happen.

I think what dampens the mood a little bit in younger people are the ever-rising cost of living while getting good employment is getting more and more difficult. Everyone needs a degree for everything, without one your CV might not even get looked at. In plenty of fields you'll have minimal chances of progressing in your career and make better money, while the costs around you rocket up.

Plus there is the huge wave of automation looming around the corner. We'll see more automation in the next 20 years while people that are in their late 20s now won't retire for another 40 years... if their jobs are still around. This is a huge uncertainty. The truth is that nobody really knows in what state pension funds will be in in 40 years. I'm not saying it makes no sense paying into a pension but with plenty of jobs being wiped out (and I personally I'm pretty pro technology anything) it seems like there are better ways to invest your money.
Especially because plenty of people need their money now because they are living paycheck by paycheck as is.

I also think that there is horrible begrudgery going on. It seems like Irish people have a hard time understanding that people genuinely can't afford certain things. I've seen that in various healthcare debates where people having health insurance genuinely can't understand that there are poor people that can't afford health insurance because they have it tough as is.

People give out about families having two cars while the reality is that plenty of them have to move out of urban areas and have to commute. One car if both work simply won't do. Same with phones, it's expected to be flexible and on call most of the time in work.

Times have changed, it is 2017 with all the good and the bad sides that come with progress.

LirW · 05-12-2017 6:06pm

Permabear wrote: »

This post had been deleted.

I think what frustrates a lot of people is the misspending of tax money. There are a lot of other countries that get better bang for their buck. How can it be that in Scandinavia with similar taxrates they're getting far better education, childcare for far smaller rates, better health care and are not getting fleeced from various insurances every year.
That's one thing I learned after moving here that back home the tax money is differently spend and you can see that in some areas like insurance or childcare. It would cost 1k for full-time creche for my baby while I paid 350 Euro a month for the same service back home and from the age of 3 on it was free.
Or the state of public transport. Why does it work a lot better in other countries with similar tax rates?

There can be an awful lot of tweaking be done in that regard.

I like living here though, don't get me wrong.

Permabear · 05-12-2017 6:10pm

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Electric Sheep · 05-12-2017 6:13pm

pilly wrote: »

Just bugs me the way people judge others all the time. Same thing about the bottled water, you're out in the car, dying of the thirst, what do you do? Run into someone's house and ask can you have a sup of water? No, you go into a shop and buy a bottle of water. It's a hell of lot better than buying some sugar filled drink.

People always bought drinks for in a car or when walking or whatever, it's just changed toward water, which is a good thing.

There's an awful of lot of older people looking down on the younger generation with the attitude of "it's all your own fault". It's patronising.

And I'm an "older" person.

Reusable insulated water bottle that you fill from your tap before getting into the car?

The amount of landfill created by the bottled water industry is a shame and a scandal to me.

I've notice that at a lot of conferences these days in the US, they have stopped with the bottled water and have jugs of filtered water and glasses on the tables instead. It makes a lot more sense to me.

LirW · 05-12-2017 6:16pm

That's the thing though I gladly pay high taxes if the service is right.
But plenty of roads are in a state, working people have to pay horrific childcare bills, the healthcare system is in a shameful condition, young people have trouble getting onto the road because of the ever increasing insurance and regulations what car they can't drive. For the average working joe, where is all of that service for the high income tax they pay from the laughably small threshold on?

Sleepy · 05-12-2017 6:21pm

Might have something to do with it tbh...

zedhead · 05-12-2017 6:22pm

I do think there are people at both ends of the spectrum, but it is a lot about choice. I just bought my first home and while we were saving it was tough - when we did eat out it was always using groupon vouchers etc, no holidays, paying over the odds for insurance on a 14 year old car because I couldnt afford the loan on the mortgage application, and while people may think it doesn't count, I would treat myself to a takeaway coffee once or twice a month - i wouldn't even have considered a daily coffee or buying my lunch every day instead of bringing it in (which the majority of my coworkers do and a lot of people I know).

People on here saying how hard it is to get a decent job but where I work we are hiring a number of positions and I cannot believe the people coming in for interview. People who have not done research on the job or the company, not bothered to dress appropriatly for the interview (of 8 people we interviewed for a role recently half turned up in jeans and only one wore a suit). People seem to expect to be handed the job for just turning up and having a CV which has relevant experience listed.

All the people I know who complain about having no money all the time, or never being able to buy a house or afford rent all live at home and flit their money away on meals out, new clothes, cars, takeaways, drinking etc but constantly act like they have no life because they have no money. Little to no savings and think life owes them something. There are absolute genuine cases of people struggling, but there is absolutely a sense of entitlement among a huge amount of people from a lot of the 20-35 age group (of which I fall into myself).

Idbatterim · 05-12-2017 6:35pm

all of this "Im happy to pay more taxes for better services" LOL! people saying this are one of the masses paying virtually nothing into the system in direct taxes unemployed or is actually off their head in thinking what you will get in return, is worth it for the increases in taxes.

server down · 05-12-2017 7:24pm

draiochtanois wrote: »

Sorry but actually it is ....

It's not just the takeaway coffee (365*2*3), it's the couple of music festivals per year (2*750), the eating out for breakfast & lunch, the takeaways, the cigarettes, the vinyl collection (Vinyl may in theory sound better but it doesn't make up for the lack of skill mixing or your poor taste in music) the drugs they will snort or ingest on the multiple nights out at the weekend.

You just keep repeating the same old tired **** don’t you?

Permabear · 05-12-2017 7:42pm

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eviltwin · 05-12-2017 7:44pm

pilly wrote: »

Now get off the stage, coffee is not going to pay the deposit for a house no matter what way you look at it. I could do the maths but I know you're just being facetious.

Does help though. I lived on basics when I was saving for my deposit, no treats at all. I had the deposit within a year.

Disposable Income Gone

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