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Disposable Income Gone

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    #272
    eviltwin
    Registered Users Posts: 17,495 ✭✭✭✭eviltwin


    I bought my house 15 yrs ago. I was just out of college and working in a basic job. Husbag was in low paid employment. We had a child which affects lending potential. We were still able to buy a house though, in Dublin and have a life. I look at my daughter now, she won't be able to rent in Dublin let alone buy despite having a better job and no baggage. How did things get this bad?


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    #273
    Ronaldinho
    Registered Users Posts: 829 ✭✭✭Ronaldinho


    NinetyTwoTeam wrote: »
    If I hear another person tell me the reason most of my generation will never afford a house is takeaway coffee I'm gonna smack them with my avocado toast.

    The economy has been stacked in such a way that if you don't come from a family with money, you're going to be scraping by all your life. Wages are dreadful, rents and house prices are sky high. Let me drink my mother flipping coffee so I can summon the will to live in this late stage capitalist dystopia, thanks.


    With a negative, defeatist attitude like that you'll never make the most of your potential, regardless of whether you come from a wealthy family.


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    #274
    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater
    Registered Users Posts: 3,236 ✭✭✭Dr. Kenneth Noisewater


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Ask any Clerical Officer, personal enrichment is rarely achieved on a weekly wage of under €500.


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    #275
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #276
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    eviltwin wrote: »
    Does help though. I lived on basics when I was saving for my deposit, no treats at all. I had the deposit within a year.
    eviltwin wrote: »
    I bought my house 15 yrs ago. I was just out of college and working in a basic job. Husbag was in low paid employment. We had a child which affects lending potential. We were still able to buy a house though, in Dublin and have a life. I look at my daughter now, she won't be able to rent in Dublin let alone buy despite having a better job and no baggage. How did things get this bad?

    You must understand that people like me and the poster you quoted are in the same category as your daughter today but with less time to play with. Penny pinching is pointless. That's not to say that one should be irresponsible but the problems are truly insurmountable for many.

    He really meant it. As would I. Rationally speaking, there is little hope for anyone in a household (of two adults) that is not bringing in €50k without some other advantage or two. Working full time for the wages that many people depend on for the prices that need paying while paying the rents that need paying is a circle that can't be squared even today.

    I remember working doing a menial/ semi-skilled job back in 2006 nearly lead to me buying a house. At the time, I remember earning about €25k and having most of the deposit together having worked hard and saving hard. I remember a friend telling me his brother, who was older than us, was working full time for about €20k and being horrified. Ten years later, that's what I was earning.


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    #277
    cantdecide
    Registered Users Posts: 11,465 ✭✭✭✭cantdecide


    Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »
    Ask any Clerical Officer, personal enrichment is rarely achieved on a weekly wage of under €500.

    I had the privilege of working doing govt. outsourced clerical work for the princely sum of €350/wk.


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    #278
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    My sociology lecturer (admittedly a bit of a Marxist) predicted the squeezing and decline of the middle class as we knew it then back in the mid 1990s.

    In many ways, it looks as if his predictions have come to pass. Yes, many people are bad at managing money, but when the super rich exploit those in the middle a pinch point occurs.


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    #279
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #280
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    libertarian blah blah blah! lets take a good look at your beloved 'financial sector' shall we!

    talking about theories, shall we look at neoclassical theory and its partner in crime, neoliberalism!


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    #281
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    But the public sector are the middles classes or part of them.

    No doubt elites in the public and private sector are taking the piss but it’s mostiy the private sector.


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    #282
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    server down wrote: »
    But the public sector are the middles classes or part of them.

    No doubt elites in the public and private sector are taking the piss but it’s mostiy the private sector.

    Right. And because of the big bad private sector and human nature. Who should be the last line of defence that failed miserably?

    But mostly the orhvate sector? Ah ha ha. Do you know what percent of the private sector in key areas to public interest would be in position to take the piss ? 0.000001 or thereabouts I'd hazard a guess at!

    I reckon it's fair to say that many of the unsackable ****e public sector workers on the 13,000,000,000,000 a year plus pensions, lump sum payments and the interest costs are a bit of a bigger issue than some fraction of a percent in private sector.


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    #283
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    Right. And because of the big bad private sector and human nature. Who should be the last line of defence that failed mistlerably?

    Er, Batman?

    Don’t really understand the question tbh.


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    #284
    Idbatterim
    Registered Users Posts: 17,843 ✭✭✭✭Idbatterim


    server down wrote: »
    Er, Batman?

    Don’t really understand the question tbh.
    The last line of defence against greed and human nature. Should be the regulator, central bank and government, who totally failed. You can understand why the banks acted like they did...


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    #285
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Idbatterim wrote: »
    The last line of defence against greed and human nature. Should be the regulator, central bank and government, who totally failed. You can understand why the banks acted like they did...

    the last few years in particular have shown how much power the financial sector has over our political and democratic processes and institutions.


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    #286
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    People love to think everyone is out to get them, the reality is most people are selfish and look after number one, they aren't trying to fukc people over, just looking after themselves, rich people tend to be just better at it.


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    #287
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    People love to think everyone is out to get them, the reality is most people are selfish and look after number one, they aren't trying to fukc people over, just looking after themselves, rich people tend to be just better at it.

    i particularly like noam chomskys use of the term 'atomisation', sums it up very well


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    #288
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    The reality people don't want to see is we are much wealthier than 20 years ago, 40 years ago and 200 years ago. The average person today is wealthier than kings and queens of 400 years ago.


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    #289
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    The reality people don't want to see is we are much wealthier than 20 years ago, 40 years ago and 200 years ago. The average person today is wealthier than kings and queens of 400 years ago.

    Relax lads. We’re better off than during the famine.


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    #290
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    server down wrote: »
    Relax lads. We’re better off than during the famine.

    You are wealthier than virtually everyone in the history of mankind.


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    #291
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    The reality people don't want to see is we are much wealthier than 20 years ago, 40 years ago and 200 years ago. The average person today is wealthier than kings and queens of 400 years ago.

    always liked Michael Hudsons term, 'we re confusing wealth with debt'!;)


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    #292
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    always liked Michael Hudsons term, 'we re confusing wealth with debt'!;)

    An hour's unskilled labour will buy you more today than anytime in history.


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    #293
    server down
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭server down


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    An hour's unskilled labour will buy you more today than anytime in history.

    No offence but who cares? The question is about disposable and discretionary income on the last 10-20 years not since the last ice age.


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    #294
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    server down wrote: »
    No offence but who cares? The question is about disposable and discretionary income on the last 10-20 years not since the last ice age.

    An hour's unskilled labour will get you significantly more in return than it would have ten years ago or 20 years ago. I don't believe we had an ice age within the last 20 years.

    So many people with supposedly no discretionary income can post on boards on phones worth 800 euro or thereabouts.


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    #295
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    An hour's unskilled labour will buy you more today than anytime in history.

    is that got to do with the fact, we ve more access to stuff than ever before due to multiple of factors? i do see where hudson is coming from though, our debt problems are significant, particularly private debt


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    #296
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    is that got to do with the fact, we ve more access to stuff than ever before due to multiple of factors? i do see where hudson is coming from though, our debt problems are significant, particularly private debt

    We are wealthier now because people innovate and invent better methods and products as time passes. We benefit today from the vast time spent by humanity innovating through history and prehistory.

    When Newton and Leibniz discovered calculus, they created vast wealth for future generations.


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    #297
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    We are wealthier now because people innovate and invent better methods and products as time passes. We benefit today from the vast time spent by humanity innovating.

    absolutely agree, we re an astonishing species when you think about it, our abilities are limitless, but again, i do think hudson and co are actually right, i.e. we re kinna codding ourselves a bit with all this wealth stuff, its all largely debt


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    #298
    JupiterKid
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 12,630 Mod ✭✭✭✭JupiterKid


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.


    Ah yes, neo-liberal economics championed by Reagan and Thatcher. That's worked out so well, hasn't it? It hasn't escaped my attention it led to the crash of 2007/8 and the subsequent bailing out of much of the banking sector, to the great cost of many moderate income people.

    When ordinary people can't even afford to rent a dwelling in Dublin, something is very very wrong.


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    #299
    Crypto Coin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 22 ✭Crypto Coin


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    absolutely agree, we re an astonishing species when you think about it, our abilities are limitless, but again, i do think hudson and co are actually right, i.e. we re kinna codding ourselves a bit with all this wealth stuff, its all largely debt

    Debt has existed for millenia, without the capacity to create debt we greatly diminish the capacity to create wealth.

    To see how wealthy a particular person has been, look at the availability of products and services to them from birth to debt. I would wager the average person who dies today lived wealtheir life than a person who died 30 years ago.


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    #300
    mfceiling
    Registered Users Posts: 12,789 ✭✭✭✭mfceiling


    I love the posts from some complaining about people spending money instead of saving for a house.

    2 music festivals a year @€;750 a time...really? 2 takeaway coffees EVERY day for 365 days of the year (good luck finding a coffee shop open on Xmas day).

    People have to live as well. Why have you got a light on when you could sit in the dark? Sure you only need 1 pair of trousers. Why are you eating lunch today? Did you not eat lunch yesterday?
    FFS like.


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    #301
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,943 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Crypto Coin wrote: »
    Debt has existed for millenia, without the capacity to create debt we greatly diminish the capacity to create wealth.

    To see how wealthy a particular person has been, look at the availability of products and services to them from birth to debt. I would wager the average person who dies today lived wealtheir life than a person who died 30 years ago.

    again, agree, but the problem now is the amount of debt, particularly private debt, but again, are we really wealthier or debtier? pardon the pun:)

    again, we really do need to start addressing these debt problems, theyre starting to have seriously negative effects on our societies. its very evident in younger generations and i do think it ll stifle our progression as a species. i do believe the true wealth for many if not all innovations are ending in the hands of the minority, this is a problem!


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