Disposable Income Gone

lisasimpson

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Is that not part of parenting?

Exactly..a mirror of the situation i think. Not taking responsiblity do we have to get someone else to do evreything for us...a bit like healthy eating..out informative years start in the home by setting examples..but again only work so much

Wanderer78

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

In time I wonder if the working week will be cut or will 2 workers share the 1 job?

what evidence have we that the working week will be reduced, not forgetting we were promised this in times past?

the future doesnt look good for the worker, as workers have less bargaining power compared to the past. i suspect this will eventually all come to a head, and we ll be forced to address our inequality issues. as it stands, wealth is moving in one direction, this is unsustainable.

Ronaldinho wrote: »

Is that not part of parenting?

it is of course, but i do believe many parents, particularly young parents are caught in a trap of debt, and are spending a large portion of their time servicing these debts by working, and working longer hours, thus spending less time attending to their kids actual needs.

_Brian wrote: »

The problem here is the snowflakes who want everything, preferably without working for it or making an effort like savings and cutting back on luxuries.

I know a chap who dropped out of college because he couldn’t be bothered. Married but his wife won’t work, just pop’d out the third kid he works a factory job in €12.50 and hour and they are on FIS.
But they moan they can’t afford everything they’d like, jealous of those going on holidays. Would love to build a house but not a hope of getting the money - ever.
People like this need to look at themselves before moaning about everything, I see them both on social media bitching about the government not creating housing and employment opportunities.

our educational system only truly works for certain type of people with certain abilities, it actually penalises those that is doesnt work for, leaving many in vulnerable positions.

the world of marketing has a lot to answer for to regarding out wish wants and needs!

oh but 'the market', i will say this again, 'we shall not speak ill of the market'!:rolleyes:

Akrasia

hurler32 wrote: »

the majority going around in Tracksuits with their Lidl Plastic bag....

You can afford the lidl plastic bag?

well your majesty, it's nice to grace us with your presence

Tigerandahalf

Wanderer78 wrote: »

what evidence have we that the working week will be reduced, not forgetting we were promised this in times past?

The alternative is having a huge swathe of people out of work and that wouldn't be a good thing for society. People need to feel they have something to offer/gain from existing.

Big corporations like Google/Apple/Amazon will have to be tackled. They are paying peanuts in tax while workers are paying close to 50% in some cases. Europe is starting to tackle this in some way.

A global tax deal (akin to the climate change deal) will be needed to stop tax havens and help distribute wealth.


Upto now everything re production has been about making things faster and cheaper. But in future sustainability will play a bigger role.

The 5 day working week was needed to keep factories going and 2 days off for workers to rest. That type of template is no longer needed.

If workers are only paid for a 4 day week homes would have to get cheaper. Many of our costs are driven by double incomes.

hurler32

Panda bins would be a good example , 10-20 years ago plenty of Dublin men unskilled if you want to be blunt worked on lorries collecting bins getting 550-600 a week .... now panda does the bins with Albanians and Romianians earning 380 a week ... 15 of them living in a house ... scavenging in Lidl in the evenings to stay going ....
This is becoming the model employers want ...Hardly the model we want for our children ?

PCeeeee

For the love of God. Again and again in this thread.

Scavenge: search for and collect (anything usable) from discarded waste.

For once and for all people. Shopping in Lidl or Aldi is not scavenging.

The J Stands for Jay

PCeeeee wrote: »

For the love of God. Again and again in this thread.

Scavenge: search for and collect (anything usable) from discarded waste.

For once and for all people. Shopping in Lidl or Aldi is not scavenging.

The fruit and veg in Aldi is decent, I stopped going to Tesco because so much of theirs is almost entirely inedible.

kylith

My dad, a lorryman, raised a family of 6 in a house with a mortgage, on one wage in the 70s-90s. He and my mum would go away on a sun holiday and then we'd have a family camping holiday.


There's not a hope in hell you could do that now, not in Dublin anyway.

Heres Johnny

I have seen all ends of the spectrum. I worked in financial services for years and carried out thousands of financial planning reviews with people.

I have seen it all from the high earners that know the value of money and have a modest lifestyle, older car, budget phone although usually a nice house and putting money away towards children's futures and their own retirement to the person on minimum wage that borrowed and borrowed and even queued to afford the latest expensive iPhone and genuinely has no scope to plan.

Then there are the vast majority in the middle, good jobs but suffering from lifestyle creep as it's known. Lifestyle creep means no matter how much your earnings rise, your spending rises to meet it.

Newer car, upgraded tv package, that kind of thing so they are no better off than before earnings rose.

We now have internet bills, Spotify subscriptions, lunch and coffee from the local spar, mobile phone bills, sky sports to pay that we didn't before.

However, everyone has scope to improve their situation but very few do. I think its still over 55% of people are not retirement planning at all which is a crazy amount of people.

MRnotlob606

MRnotlob606 wrote: »

What about precarious work? zero-hour contracts, and jobs not paying enough? but no people have haplessly put it down to poor business management because we know that the baby boomers were so good at managing their money they decided to throw it away on grossly over priced houses and create a housing and credit bubble.

I think that you'll find that a lot of baby boomers bought houses in lieu of pensions because of government policies in the 1990s that removed the guarantees that the pensions would actually pay out.

Putting savings into housing and selling when you retire became the norn for a whole group of people, it only really went wrong when some got greedy and bought several with mortgages.

somefeen

whisky_galore wrote: »

Parents were supposed to impart this, why aren't they doing that now?

Plus all of the above is now easily found with the smartphone that almost everyone has in the palm of their hand, there really is no excuse.

Probably because the parents haven't a clue either.
No there is no excuse, plenty of info on net but in my case I didn't even realise I was terrible with money or that how I saw money was screwing me over.
We all know about the lotto winners who go from zero to millions over night and then end up back where they started. I reckon that's because your attitude towards money when you have very little is not compatitable with having a lot.
In my case anyway. Plenty of people get it right from the start to.

Heres Johnny

Heres Johnny wrote: »

However, everyone has scope to improve their situation but very few do. I think its still over 55% of people are not retirement planning at all which is a crazy amount of people.

They're probably the same people who believe we will still have welfare in 2-3 decades from now. Reality doesn't play into it.

I worked as a credit controller for well over a decade, and it was awe-inspiring the lengths that people went to convince themselves (and others) that their income was much more than it was. They needed the newest tech, the reasonably new car (preferably two of them in the household), and the best of the best for their kids. And when their salaries didn't meet their "needs", they signed up for every kind of deal that companies offered without considering the actual costs involved. And then looked surprised when everything (and more) was taken back from them... It's truly shocking how many people sign contracts without reading the terms, blindly believing that the banks and businesses have their best interests in mind for them, or that their stupidity is covered by the law.

My own stupidity was credit cards. Wracked up a fortune in interest, and was forced to ask for help from my family. That cured me. Now, I'm very careful with what I buy and avoid impulse buys like the plague.

Lastly, about things being much better twenty or more years ago... dream on. My first professional job (around 2000) was working as an accounts exec for Esat, and I barely covered rent/living costs in Dublin. My second job was marginally better, and so on. It took time to build up enough experience and skills to warrant the better salaries. Nowadays, people seem to believe that they should graduate and get a great salary from the beginning. The sense of entitlement is staggering.

Idbatterim

Stheno wrote: »

Bad news is that the Midlands is rising even faster than Dublin.

I've a house there that is being sold next year and it was valued recently for 30% more than I expected

Five years ago it would have gone for 125k now it's more than double that

rising quicker in percentage terms maybe! the prices in dublin in actual euro will be rising much quicker!

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

rising quicker in percentage terms maybe! the prices in dublin in actual euro will be rising much quicker!

Yes as 20% rise in rents in Longford, would in Euro terms equate to 5% (or less) rise in Dublin.

donegaLroad

Idbatterim wrote: »

rising quicker in percentage terms maybe! the prices in dublin in actual euro will be rising much quicker!

This is one of the main reasons that there is less disposable income. People are mortgaged out of it, and with mortgage interest in Ireland almost double the European average.

19 years ago, I was earning a bit more than I am earning now, I was considering buying a house which was a 4 bed bungalow on a third of an acre. It was on the market for £75k punt, the reason I didn't buy it at the time is because I still wanted to see some of the world, and I didn't want to be tied to a house.

If I went to buy the same house today, I have no doubt that it would be over €200k, and thats still reasonable by today's prices, but wages have not risen proportionately with house prices.

Idbatterim

With the cost of inflation and no increases virtually in welfare (which i agree with) and after tax barely any real wage increases. throw in a few ecb rate increases and things could get very interesting. I wonder what each 1% increase from the ecb would suck out of the economy...

storker

McGaggs wrote: »

The fruit and veg in Aldi is decent, I stopped going to Tesco because so much of theirs is almost entirely inedible.

In my experience the staff in Lidl tend to be far more professional than I've seen in Tesco. The only annoyance about the stuff in Lidl is that you can never be sure if what you want will be there again next time.

Fond memories of that depth-charge-sized tin of turkey ravioli they used to sell years ago. Mmmmmm.....

hurler32 wrote: »

[...] as the young eat their frozen burgers etc

That's terrible. It must be so hard on their teeth too...

namloc1980

McGaggs wrote: »

I don't get this attitude. I avoid having cash because it just disappears without trace. Using cards hurts me straight away. I can see my bank balance instantly dropping, reminding me how far away payday is.

Do you not get your cash from your bank account also?

server down

Heres Johnny wrote: »

I have seen all ends of the spectrum. I worked in financial services for years and carried out thousands of financial planning reviews with people.

I have seen it all from the high earners that know the value of money and have a modest lifestyle, older car, budget phone although usually a nice house and putting money away towards children's futures and their own retirement to the person on minimum wage that borrowed and borrowed and even queued to afford the latest expensive iPhone and genuinely has no scope to plan.

Then there are the vast majority in the middle, good jobs but suffering from lifestyle creep as it's known. Lifestyle creep means no matter how much your earnings rise, your spending rises to meet it.

Newer car, upgraded tv package, that kind of thing so they are no better off than before earnings rose.

We now have internet bills, Spotify subscriptions, lunch and coffee from the local spar, mobile phone bills, sky sports to pay that we didn't before.

However, everyone has scope to improve their situation but very few do. I think its still over 55% of people are not retirement platnning at all which is a crazy amount of people.

So the rich are prudent and the middle income groups profligate. That’s not what I see. Nor is it what was visible in the Celtic tiger when plenty of rich people went bankrupt.

And (once again) how people spend their disposable or discretionary income doesn’t actually change what disposable or discretionary income they have.

Idbatterim

Idbatterim wrote: »

With the cost of inflation and no increases virtually in welfare (which i agree with) and after tax barely any real wage increases. throw in a few ecb rate increases and things could get very interesting. I wonder what each 1% increase from the ecb would suck out of the economy...

Last time they tried to raise interest rates it become one of the triggers that brought about the great recession, people's capacity to consume non-essentials simply evaporated in increased interest payments. Many people are still have jumbo mortgage arrangements and any increase in interest will cause a (smaller) repeat of the last recession.

Pithythefool

Its a titre procedure in process.

Take one drop of black paint (representing the "top%" of the worlds wealth, the majority of Ireland included).

Take a litre of white paint (representing the rest of world's wealth)

Mix together with the magic of globalisation, and the black paint disappears. This is the tip of the iceberg about to hit us over the next 10 years +, that when you equalise everything across the board (planet), the likes of Ireland as a whole takes a severe nosedive in terms of quality of life.

These vague hints of disparity, a growing unease with stability and things seeming more difficult/less attainable are just the start.

As someone else said earlier, you want the cheapest prices, you end up pulling the rug out from underneath yourself, now you need even cheaper prices, and so on. A vicious circle that cycles downwards, because at the end of the day an irish person/business just cannot compete with the economic realities of, say, china/india.

Unless, of course, you lower yourself to the quality of life enjoyed by those in china or india, which is precisely where we are heading.

Or, more quickly said, unfettered and unregulated capitalism.

kerryjack

Interesting tread anyone willing to through up a few figures I will start of and ye can give me feed back on how we are doing ok
1 income family of 6 take home 3200 a month thats wages and CB
Out goings are
Mortgage 420
Health insurance 140
2 car insurance 100
Life insurance 22
House insurance 40
ESB 92
Heating 100
Broadband 45
1 phone 30
Property tax 25
We shop in aldi 600
Total 1614
We are left with disposable income of about 1600 which is not too bad could be worse I reckon.

Pithythefool

Pithythefool wrote: »

Its a titre procedure in process.

Take one drop of black paint (representing the "top%" of the worlds wealth, the majority of Ireland included).

Take a litre of white paint (representing the rest of world's wealth)

Mix together with the magic of globalisation, and the black paint disappears. This is the tip of the iceberg about to hit us over the next 10 years +, that when you equalise everything across the board (planet), the likes of Ireland as a whole takes a severe nosedive in terms of quality of life.

These vague hints of disparity, a growing unease with stability and things seeming more difficult/less attainable are just the start.

As someone else said earlier, you want the cheapest prices, you end up pulling the rug out from underneath yourself, now you need even cheaper prices, and so on. A vicious circle that cycles downwards, because at the end of the day an irish person/business just cannot compete with the economic realities of, say, china/india.

Unless, of course, you lower yourself to the quality of life enjoyed by those in china or india, which is precisely where we are heading.

Or, more quickly said, unfettered and unregulated capitalism.

In actual fact there is also a tin of grey paint that represents the middle income earners (in global terms the remainder of the "western" population) that is being spun to separate some of the the black paint out to combine with the tiny drop of black paint and the remainder is mixed with the white.

In reality the wealth transfer is from the middle to the top and the bottom.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

In actual fact there is also a tin of grey paint that represents the middle income earners (in global terms the remainder of the "western" population) that is being spun to separate some of the the black paint out to combine with the tiny drop of black paint and the remainder is mixed with the white.

In reality the wealth transfer is from the middle to the top and the bottom.

id argue about the bottom, but id completely agree with the middle getting hammered. enough is enough with this crap

SCOOP 64

kerryjack wrote: »

Interesting tread anyone willing to through up a few figures I will start of and ye can give me feed back on how we are doing ok
1 income family of 6 take home 3200 a month thats wages and CB
Out goings are
Mortgage 420
Health insurance 140
2 car insurance 100
Life insurance 22
House insurance 40
ESB 92
Heating 100
Broadband 45
1 phone 30
Property tax 25
We shop in aldi 600
Total 1614
We are left with disposable income of about 1600 which is not too bad could be worse I reckon.

One thing you got going for you, that mortgage of €420.

kylith

SCOOP 64 wrote: »

One thing you got going for you, that mortgage of €420.

Could triple that, depending on area

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

id argue about the bottom, but id completely agree with the middle getting hammered. enough is enough with this crap

I was thinking about Chinese & Indian factory workers who are earning an income for the first time ever.

Pithythefool

Deleted User wrote: »

In actual fact there is also a tin of grey paint that represents the middle income earners (in global terms the remainder of the "western" population) that is being spun to separate some of the the black paint out to combine with the tiny drop of black paint and the remainder is mixed with the white.

In reality the wealth transfer is from the middle to the top and the bottom.

Theres more picking to be had from the middle class of course, but the vast majority is from the lower paid.

Would you rather 10 euro a day from 100 people, or 1 euro a day from 10'000 people?

Better yet, just take it all. According to my calculations on the paint index of wealth, better than anything the ILO have, I'd say there is 1 drop of black paint, a liter of grey paint, and a swimming pool of white paint.

It all goes white by mixing, regardless.

kylith

kylith wrote: »

Could triple that, depending on area

and when the house was bought, there are many who bought in the 1990s and are approaching the end of a $100 or less a month mortgage plus quite a few on tiger mortgages that could easily be $1000 per month.

Wanderer78

Deleted User wrote: »

I was thinking about Chinese & Indian factory workers who are earning an income for the first time ever.

interesting twist, met an Indian business owner in Singapore a few years ago, said he was struggling to run his business, couldnt compete with the Chinese. found it shocking at the time