Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

Odhinn · 19-11-2017 4:54pm

A garda makes a complaint. The complaint dissappears into some parallel dimension while the senior Garda mentioned goes for and gets a promotion. Some form of quantum entaglement ensures that, promotion over, the complaint re-appears.

Garda Keogh's solicitor told RTÉ that as well as dealing with the substantive allegation of inappropriate conduct, his client also wants to know why it took seven months for the complaint to get to the investigative stage.

The complaint had been made back in March of this year.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1119/921265-gardai-whistleblower/

Bare faced cheek of the hightest order.

It's fairly evident that a clear out is needed across the force. Whether anyone has the testicular fortitude required is another question.

Captain Obvious · 19-11-2017 5:19pm

Odhinn wrote: »

A garda makes a complaint. The complaint dissappears into some parallel dimension while the senior Garda mentioned goes for and gets a promotion. Some form of quantum entaglement ensures that, promotion over, the complaint re-appears.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1119/921265-gardai-whistleblower/

Bare faced cheek of the hightest order.

It's fairly evident that a clear out is needed across the force. Whether anyone has the testicular fortitude required is another question.

Two important issues there. Why should a complaint damage your chances in a promotion competition? Let the person go for promotion unimpeded and if they get the promotion then hold off on implementing it until complaint is dealt with. And it should be easy enough to implement a process to track a complaint. If it isn't resolved at local level in a month it should go to an outside HR agency to be dealt with.

Odhinn · 19-11-2017 6:59pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

Two important issues there. Why should a complaint damage your chances in a promotion competition? Let the person go for promotion unimpeded and if they get the promotion then hold off on implementing it until complaint is dealt with. And it should be easy enough to implement a process to track a complaint. If it isn't resolved at local level in a month it should go to an outside HR agency to be dealt with.

Should be. Yet it was evidently felt nessecary to bury the thing. And this is behaviour in the last year, not back under Callinan.

McMurphy · 21-11-2017 8:31am

emo72 wrote: »

fitzgerald is a goner.

Two commisoners gone, one.justice minister gone, one more looking extremelly likely to fall on their sword.

Happens under the tenure of the party of law and order.

Odhinn · 24-11-2017 4:14pm

Meanwhile, back at the ranch -

Transcripts of the O’Higgins Commission supplied to the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission for its investigation into the Mullingar meeting incident were missing crucial pages, RTÉ's Prime Time programme has revealed.

Counsel for the Garda Commissioner told the inquiry that he had been instructed to challenge Maurice McCabe's credibility and motivation.

He said that a senior garda would give evidence that Sgt McCabe had admitted at a meeting in Mullingar in 2008 that he only made his allegations of garda malpractice because he had a grievance against a senior officer.

However, Sgt McCabe had a tape recording of that meeting that proved this was not the case.
Prime Time revealed that key pages in which Mr Justice O’Higgins confirmed to the inquiry that he had reviewed the tape of the Mullingar meeting and the remarks attributed to Sgt McCabe were not on it.

The hour that was missing was the hour in which the strategy outlined by the Garda Commissioner’s legal team collapsed.

That hour was also missing from the transcript supplied to the McCabe legal team during the commission hearings.

There was no mention of this incident in the O’Higgins Commission report.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2017/1123/922441-politics-maurice-mccabe/

The article doesn't state whether the pages have been recovered. Rotten to the core is no longer an exaggeration, it seems.

freeatlast24 · 24-11-2017 5:16pm

Paul Williams & INM appear to have been heavily involved in the campaign to smear Sgt Maurice McCabe's reputation & blacken his good name.

Paul Williams – wrote four articles about Ms D and her 2006 allegation in April and May 2014 gave evidence to the Charleton Tribunal.

Mr Williams was the only journalist to write about Ms D and her then eight-year-old allegation before it became publicly known in February of this year that a counsellor [Laura Brophy] had made the error of adding an unrelated allegation of rape in a referral to Tusla.

Mr Williams, Ms D, and Independent News and Media (INM) share the same solicitor for the tribunal – Kieran Kelly. Mr Williams told the tribunal that he suggested Mr Kelly to the D family in February of this year.

It’s also worth recalling that Ms D claimed the 2006 allegation would have been known in the Bailieboro, Virginia area while Mr D claimed it was an open secret in the gardaí.

Others to give evidence included Detective Superintendent John O’Reilly, who helped put Mr D and Paul Williams in touch with each other in 2014; Superintendent Noel Cunningham, who originally investigated the 2006 allegation; and Supt Leo McGinn, who inadvertently informed Mr D of the false rape allegation attached to Laura Brophy’s incorrect referral in 2013 when he showed Mr D the referral.

blanch152 · 24-11-2017 5:30pm

freeatlast24 wrote: »

Paul Williams & INM appear to have been heavily involved in the campaign to smear Sgt Maurice McCabe's reputation & blacken his good name.

Paul Williams – wrote four articles about Ms D and her 2006 allegation in April and May 2014 gave evidence to the Charleton Tribunal.

Mr Williams was the only journalist to write about Ms D and her then eight-year-old allegation before it became publicly known in February of this year that a counsellor [Laura Brophy] had made the error of adding an unrelated allegation of rape in a referral to Tusla.

Mr Williams, Ms D, and Independent News and Media (INM) share the same solicitor for the tribunal – Kieran Kelly. Mr Williams told the tribunal that he suggested Mr Kelly to the D family in February of this year.

It’s also worth recalling that Ms D claimed the 2006 allegation would have been known in the Bailieboro, Virginia area while Mr D claimed it was an open secret in the gardaí.

Others to give evidence included Detective Superintendent John O’Reilly, who helped put Mr D and Paul Williams in touch with each other in 2014; Superintendent Noel Cunningham, who originally investigated the 2006 allegation; and Supt Leo McGinn, who inadvertently informed Mr D of the false rape allegation attached to Laura Brophy’s incorrect referral in 2013 when he showed Mr D the referral.

Ms D is the one who is forgotten in all of this.

Seth Brundle · 24-11-2017 6:03pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Ms D is the one who is forgotten in all of this.

What has been forgotten?

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 6:09pm

blanch152 wrote:

Ms D is the one who is forgotten in all of this.

Ms D has not been forgotten, as she was not part of all this. Totally separate issue and should be dealt with as sensitively as possible without the grandstanding that has accompanied all that has surrounded the McCabe controversy.

Hitman3000 · 24-11-2017 6:09pm

kbannon wrote:

What has been forgotten?

Deflection?

Odhinn · 24-11-2017 6:20pm

freeatlast24 wrote: »

Paul Williams & INM appear to have been heavily involved in the campaign to smear Sgt Maurice McCabe's reputation & blacken his good name.

Paul Williams – wrote four articles about Ms D and her 2006 allegation in April and May 2014 gave evidence to the Charleton Tribunal.

Mr Williams was the only journalist to write about Ms D and her then eight-year-old allegation before it became publicly known in February of this year that a counsellor [Laura Brophy] had made the error of adding an unrelated allegation of rape in a referral to Tusla.

Mr Williams, Ms D, and Independent News and Media (INM) share the same solicitor for the tribunal – Kieran Kelly. Mr Williams told the tribunal that he suggested Mr Kelly to the D family in February of this year.

It’s also worth recalling that Ms D claimed the 2006 allegation would have been known in the Bailieboro, Virginia area while Mr D claimed it was an open secret in the gardaí.

Others to give evidence included Detective Superintendent John O’Reilly, who helped put Mr D and Paul Williams in touch with each other in 2014; Superintendent Noel Cunningham, who originally investigated the 2006 allegation; and Supt Leo McGinn, who inadvertently informed Mr D of the false rape allegation attached to Laura Brophy’s incorrect referral in 2013 when he showed Mr D the referral.

For years Mr Williams was almost the out-sourced Garda press office. Certainly one got the impression that if you wanted to know what Mr Callinan thought, you could always ask Williams if you couldn't get through to himself.

Water John · 24-11-2017 7:18pm

They got the 'missing hour' by going back to the stenographer.
So somebody knobbled the original printout from the stenographer's notes, is a reasonable assumption.

Odhinn · 24-11-2017 8:38pm

Water John wrote: »

They got the 'missing hour' by going back to the stenographer.
So somebody knobbled the original printout from the stenographer's notes, is a reasonable assumption.

Is its contents known?

FrancieBrady · 24-11-2017 8:39pm

Water John wrote: »

They got the 'missing hour' by going back to the stenographer.
So somebody knobbled the original printout from the stenographer's notes, is a reasonable assumption.

Link?

Water John · 24-11-2017 8:45pm

Yes. It just outlines that the Presiding Judge/Tribuanl Chairman had listened to the Mullingar meeting tape which Maurice McCabe had provided. He found no mention on the recording of MM saying any thing about a grudge. He didn't comment further.

This fundamentally ruled out the NOR defence.
It's absence from the record sent to GSOC would mean, they would have no indication that, the tape recording fully contradicted, the evidence of two senior Garda Officers.

This is from Katie Hannon.

Odhinn · 25-11-2017 1:57pm

Water John wrote: »

They got the 'missing hour' by going back to the stenographer.
So somebody knobbled the original printout from the stenographer's notes, is a reasonable assumption.

And if they don't have the notes, they don't have a record on which to base an investigation into the two Gardai.

Water John · 25-11-2017 4:28pm

Correct. It is a serious attempt to frustrate the GSOC inquiry.
Along, with Mick Clifford revealing the second strand of attack by Gardai on McCabe, one can see how deep this runs.

Odhinn · 25-11-2017 5:33pm

Water John wrote: »

Correct. It is a serious attempt to frustrate the GSOC inquiry.
Along, with Mick Clifford revealing the second strand of attack by Gardai on McCabe, one can see how deep this runs.

It's typical of the jesuitical approach that certain Gardai take.

Water John · 25-11-2017 5:38pm

What is striking is the amazing similarity between both strands of the Gardai attacks on him.
It's either in their DNA from the time they go through Templemore or collusion.

Odhinn · 25-11-2017 5:48pm

Water John wrote: »

What is striking is the amazing similarity between both strands of the Gardai attacks on him.
It's either in their DNA from the time they go through Templemore or collusion.

Well a piece of paper could not be got between Callinian and O'Sullivan well before they were commissioner and assistant commissioner, so its not suprising they use the same play book.

Water John · 25-11-2017 5:59pm

We don't know who constructed the attacks but we do know the names of those who implemented the strategy. The 2 boys at the Mullingar meeting who came up with the story that MaCabe and a grudge against a Garda, and the lad who had the chat with McCabe and maintained from it, that McCabe had a grudge against the DPP.
The tape proved the first one wrong and McCabe had already indicated he was quite happy with the DPP. This was before even meeting ,this guy.

Two fabricated yarns.
Major thanks to journalists Michael Clifford and Katie Hannon. A special , no thanks to Paul Williams.

Muahahaha · 25-11-2017 6:31pm

freeatlast24 wrote: »

Paul Williams & INM appear to have been heavily involved in the campaign to smear Sgt Maurice McCabe's reputation & blacken his good name.

Paul Williams – wrote four articles about Ms D and her 2006 allegation in April and May 2014 gave evidence to the Charleton Tribunal.

Mr Williams was the only journalist to write about Ms D and her then eight-year-old allegation before it became publicly known in February of this year that a counsellor [Laura Brophy] had made the error of adding an unrelated allegation of rape in a referral to Tusla.

Mr Williams, Ms D, and Independent News and Media (INM) share the same solicitor for the tribunal – Kieran Kelly. Mr Williams told the tribunal that he suggested Mr Kelly to the D family in February of this year.

It’s also worth recalling that Ms D claimed the 2006 allegation would have been known in the Bailieboro, Virginia area while Mr D claimed it was an open secret in the gardaí.

Others to give evidence included Detective Superintendent John O’Reilly, who helped put Mr D and Paul Williams in touch with each other in 2014; Superintendent Noel Cunningham, who originally investigated the 2006 allegation; and Supt Leo McGinn, who inadvertently informed Mr D of the false rape allegation attached to Laura Brophy’s incorrect referral in 2013 when he showed Mr D the referral.

And just to show how stinky this cesspit is when Williams interviewed Ms D he brought along a videographer to record the interview for the Irish Independent. The person Williams used as the videographer was none other than Noirin OSullivans son.

So you can just imagine the scene in the OSullivan household later than evening when Noirin, her husband Chief Superintendent Jim McGowan (who previously led an investigation into Maurice McCabe) and her son with his video all sit down around the TV to watch Paul Williams interview Mrs D about her allegations against Maurice McCabe. The entire OSullivan household are watching this video with baited breath and celebrating as they think they finally have some evidence to bury Maurice McCabe. How wrong they were, McCabe has run rings around them at every single juncture, as he did with Shatter and Callinan before.

Paul Williams should hang his head in shame, he is a disgrace to journalism.

Odhinn · 26-11-2017 1:59pm

In addition, he was a member of the team that whistleblowers in the Gardai were supposed to liase with, I think.

McMurphy · 29-11-2017 9:23am

Just seen that all Garda overtime has been cancelled.

Budget exhausted.

This is Ireland 2017, let's keep the recovery going.

Captain Obvious · 29-11-2017 1:53pm

Rick Shaw wrote: »

Just seen that all Garda overtime has been cancelled.

Budget exhausted.

This is Ireland 2017, let's keep the recovery going.

It's grand. Leo says that Garda management just forgot that December overtime is paid in January.

James Brown · 29-11-2017 2:44pm

Captain Obvious wrote: »

It's grand. Leo says that Garda management just forgot that December overtime is paid in January.

Where did he get the money from?

Wait, seen:

However, he said, it was agreed by Cabinet yesterday that there will be a supplementary estimate for the Garda of €50m to cover pay, including €42m for overtime.

Mr Varadkar said that because overtime is paid for a month in arrears, this meant that December's overtime would be covered in the 2018 budget.

If it was there and budgeted for, how's it 'supplementary'? He's like a student pulling the wool over his flatmates re: rent.

So the Assistant Commissioner can't do basic budgeting. Fair enough.

blanch152 · 29-11-2017 5:46pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

And just to show how stinky this cesspit is when Williams interviewed Ms D he brought along a videographer to record the interview for the Irish Independent. The person Williams used as the videographer was none other than Noirin OSullivans son.

So you can just imagine the scene in the OSullivan household later than evening when Noirin, her husband Chief Superintendent Jim McGowan (who previously led an investigation into Maurice McCabe) and her son with his video all sit down around the TV to watch Paul Williams interview Mrs D about her allegations against Maurice McCabe. The entire OSullivan household are watching this video with baited breath and celebrating as they think they finally have some evidence to bury Maurice McCabe. How wrong they were, McCabe has run rings around them at every single juncture, as he did with Shatter and Callinan before.

Paul Williams should hang his head in shame, he is a disgrace to journalism.

Do you have any evidence for the bit in bold, or are you just slinging mud?

Odhinn · 30-11-2017 10:07pm

"The Acting Garda Commissioner Dónall Ó Cualáin has written to the Minister for Justice passing on the concerns of a senior official about the operation of the Disclosures Tribunal unit within the gardaí.

The unit is responsible for co-ordinating documentation for the inquiry.

It is understood the letter was sent under Section 41 of the Garda Síochána Act, which requires the Garda Commissioner to bring significant developments to the Minister's attention. It was sent this week.

The issues were raised by the head of Garda Human Resources John Barrett, who is concerned that the unit is not representing all gardaí at the tribunal.

He has said that the unit should have been outsourced so that coordination with the tribunal is handled externally."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/1130/924069-concerns-raised-over-tribunal-unit-within-the-gardai/

On the same vein, from september......

"It has emerged that Ms O'Sullivan is continuing to avail of services provided by the internal unit in Garda Headquarters which was set up to liaise with the Disclosures Tribunal. The tribunal, led by Mr Justice Peter Charleton, resumes its hearings today into the alleged smear campaigns against Garda whistleblowers.

"Ms O'Sullivan and Mr Callinan - who both resigned under clouds of controversy - are accused of being complicit in the smear campaign. But the Irish Independent can reveal that since Ms O'Sullivan's departure last week, head of HR John Barrett has expressed deep disquiet over the continued access to the unit.

Mr Barrett has told colleagues he intends to formally express his concerns to Judge Charleton over the access. The Dáil previously heard claims Ms O'Sullivan appointed some of her close friends to the unit - some of them retired gardaí."

Among those appointed to the unit are retired assistant commissioner Mick O'Sullivan and former chief superintendent Brendan Mangan.

The unit is headed up by Detective Supt Tony Howard, who was involved in investigating Mr Taylor over an unrelated issue. Mr Howard is assisted by Sgt Sinead Greene. Both officers previously reported to Ms O'Sullivan's husband, Detective Chief Supt Jim McGowan."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/concern-over-osullivans-continued-access-to-liaison-unit-36141288.html

From March -

"It can also be revealed that Detective Superintendent Tony Howard has been made go-between for the force and Judge Charleton.

This is despite the fact that the officer is a close associate of both Commissioner and her husband Detective Chief Supt Jim McGowan."

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/associates-will-form-ring-of-steel-around-garda-chief-in-inquiry-35517875.html

You wonder if there's any will to bring the Gardai to heel at all.

Water John · 30-11-2017 10:16pm

It seems the Acting Garda Commisioner is quite different than the 2 who went before him. That is, according to Mr. Barrett.
Looks like the whole thing had become , a bit of a personal fiefdom.

All Gardai and retired Gardai would want to consider that, their loyalty is to the state and its citizens.

Odhinn · 30-11-2017 10:31pm

Water John wrote: »

It seems the Acting Garda Commisioner is quite different than the 2 who went before him. That is, according to Mr. Barrett.
Looks like the whole thing had become , a bit of a personal fiefdom.

All Gardai and retired Gardai would want to consider that, their loyalty is to the state and its citizens.

As stated before, certainly Callinan demanded absolute unquestioning obedience and loyalty, and defined those terms as he saw fit. What previous other commissioners were like I have no idea. He saw no difference (or at least maintained) no difference between the state and the gardai - undermining one was undermining the other, and any means could be used to stop this happening. Of course this is an ideal framework for forwarding ones own agenda.

Captain Obvious · 30-11-2017 10:48pm

Water John wrote: »

It seems the Acting Garda Commisioner is quite different than the 2 who went before him. That is, according to Mr. Barrett.
Looks like the whole thing had become , a bit of a personal fiefdom.

All Gardai and retired Gardai would want to consider that, their loyalty is to the state and its citizens.

It's no secret that the divide between management and frontline has gotten quite large over the last few years since Fachtna Murphy stepped down. He was considered to be a Garda, the last two were considered politicians, although it's possible that has something to do with who was running the country during their tenure too.

Appointments being made by the Policing Authority is a massive step. You can already see the difference in the acting commissioner. It's also visible in Assistant Commissioner Pat Leahy in his cancellation of overtime and comments on Stepaside station reopening. No interest in optics. It's refreshing.

Water John · 30-11-2017 11:00pm

I actually don't think it takes a lot of action but a change of culture. Once the culture changes all those, many whose names have made into the public domain now, will retire as they won't feel at home and will be frozen in position without prospect of promotion.
But, change of culture, is the most difficult of all.

mattser · 30-11-2017 11:08pm

Water John wrote: »

It seems the Acting Garda Commisioner is quite different than the 2 who went before him. That is, according to Mr. Barrett.
Looks like the whole thing had become , a bit of a personal fiefdom.

All Gardai and retired Gardai would want to consider that, their loyalty is to the state and its citizens.

I'd imagine all retired Gardai, would now only be loyal to family & friends above all else.

Odhinn · 01-12-2017 3:43pm

Gardai were able to hide their involvement in the cancellation of penalty points by logging into the Garda computer system using the credentials of retired ex-colleagues.
The shocking practice has been revealed in a report by the Garda Ombudsman, which provides further evidence of the widespread abuse by gardaí of the penalty points system in recent years.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pretended-to-be-retired-colleagues-when-they-cancelled-penalty-points-gsoc-report-36370363.html

Gets worse as it goes on, really. They probably don't know who logged in as who, so prosecutions are probably impossible.

Captain Obvious · 01-12-2017 3:49pm

Odhinn wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/garda-pretended-to-be-retired-colleagues-when-they-cancelled-penalty-points-gsoc-report-36370363.html

Gets worse as it goes on, really. They probably don't know who logged in as who, so prosecutions are probably impossible.

Prosecutions were always going to be next to impossible, just like with the breath tests. In both cases the data recording systems were insufficient, which is how the issues arose in the first place. i don't think people get how antiquated the Garda IT system is. PULSE is basically a crappier version of Microsoft Access.

James Brown · 01-12-2017 7:47pm

How much is too much for accountability?

There has been widespread exploitation of the fixed charge penalty notice system by senior gardaí, according to a report by the Garda Síochána Ombudsman Commission.

The report contains the findings of an investigation by GSOC arising out of complaints by Sergeant Maurice McCabe about abuse of the system.

It found 442 members of the force were authorised to cancel the notices in four years.

The report says senior officers breached policy by carrying out widespread cancellations outside their own areas.

One senior member of the force cancelled 744 notices across 17 counties.

It also says the credentials of retired senior gardaí, who had been authorised to cancel fixed charge notices, were used to authorise cancellations.

The report adds that 72% of all cancelled fixed charge notices were simply recorded as "cancelled", with no further explanation given.

GSOC began its investigation into the abuse of the penalty points system almost four years ago and examined the five years from 2009 to 2014.

It met five times with Sgt McCabe and says its findings confirm his information in relation to improper cancellations.

However the report looked at the system rather than individual cases.

GSOC said it has now closed its investigation and will not pursue criminal or disciplinary proceedings because the cost would outweigh the benefit.

The lowest quote it received from an outside agency was over a €1m with a real risk it could cost more.

The force's cancellation policy has since been changed and authorisation to cancel penalty points is now restricted to a small number of officers.

The Minister for Justice Charlie Flanagan said he accepts the conclusions drawn in the report that continuing the investigation further would not be in the public interest in light of the continuing progress and oversight of the fixed charge penalty system.

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2017/1201/924228-penalty-notices/

I think 1m towards holding corrupt Garda to account, and being a lesson to others, might be a bargain.

Another case of 'yeah, bad things happened. But we now know that they did and that's what's important'. Problem solved?
The nameless Garda, who broke the rules but won't have any come back, must be terrified.
Nice to see Charlie 'rubber stamp, keep the head down' Flanagan at work.

Water John · 02-12-2017 8:24pm

Just because the Tribunal found against Keith Harrison, we now have an attempt at, name and shame the TDs who helped him. WTF

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/the-tds-who-backed-keith-harrison-36372197.html

Hitman3000 · 02-12-2017 8:39pm

Water John wrote:

Just because the Tribunal found against Keith Harrison, we now have an attempt at, name and shame the TDs who helped him. WTF

The TD's took Harrison at his word. They acted in good faith. I don't see a problem and it's enough to see the Indo leading the charge.

blanch152 · 02-12-2017 10:28pm

Water John wrote: »

Just because the Tribunal found against Keith Harrison, we now have an attempt at, name and shame the TDs who helped him. WTF

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/the-tds-who-backed-keith-harrison-36372197.html

Hitman3000 wrote: »

The TD's took Harrison at his word. They acted in good faith. I don't see a problem and it's enough to see the Indo leading the charge.

Those TDs owe an apology to those senior Gardai vindicated by the Tribunal, they owe an apology to those in Tusla who dealt with that case. As is the norm with the kangaroo courts of the left, like Doherty, Wallace and Daly, they found the Gardai and Tusla guilty before the facts were examined.

Water John · 02-12-2017 10:38pm

It's not a matter for apology. Public representatives of all hues, help citizens, in good faith.

blanch152 · 02-12-2017 10:47pm

Water John wrote: »

It's not a matter for apology. Public representatives of all hues, help citizens, in good faith.

It is a matter for apology, because they went well over the top in their attacks on the integrity of the Gardai and Tusla officials involved. If they had just restricted themselves to saying there were questions to be answered, they wouldn't need to apologise, but in the rush to self-publicise and to abuse the government, they overstepped and an apology is required.

Some humble pie wouldn't do some of them any harm.

blanch152 · 02-12-2017 10:50pm

Water John wrote: »

It's not a matter for apology. Public representatives of all hues, help citizens, in good faith.

Just like Fitzgerald allowed the Gardai and the Commissioner their right to a defence before the Tribunal in good faith?

What is sauce for the goose.....

Hitman3000 · 02-12-2017 11:10pm

Public representatives representing members of the Public. Absolutely no apology necessary or required imho.

Water John · 02-12-2017 11:10pm

The problem is the defence used by NOS at the Tribunal was not in good faith.

blanch152 · 02-12-2017 11:20pm

Hitman3000 wrote: »

Public representatives representing members of the Public. Absolutely no apology necessary or required imho.

Ordinary members of the public doing their job as gardai and tusla officials are fair game for the likes of Wallace, Daly and Doherty, but Keith Harrison gets a free pass.

We now know that they will listen to anyone with a half-hearted sob story, no discernment at all.

Obvious Otter · 02-12-2017 11:24pm

Legislation should be brought in to ensure senior civil servants are held to account for their role. It’s becoming obvious that the Gardai and the DoJ are too big of a mess to reform. It’s crazy to think that all of this incompetence is comes at a hefty expense to the taxpayer. It’s just scandal after scandal.

Our criminal justice system is a complete embarrassment and a soft touch too.

Our civil service is riddled with complete incompetence.

Muahahaha · 02-12-2017 11:25pm

blanch152 wrote: »

Those TDs owe an apology to those senior Gardai vindicated by the Tribunal, they owe an apology to those in Tusla who dealt with that case. As is the norm with the kangaroo courts of the left, like Doherty, Wallace and Daly, they found the Gardai and Tusla guilty before the facts were examined.

The TDs took in good faith what they were told. Just as Leo did from his mammy Francy only last weekend.

What I have always wondered about the Keith Harrison section of the tribunal is why was his allegations against a detective in the Athlone district as being involved in running and profiting from the heroin trade never made part of the terms of reference? It is a pretty substantial allegation and yet the terms of reference as set out by Fine Gael omitted it. We already know that the Gardai have form when it comes to the supply of heroin with their protection of a known heroin trafficker Kieran Boylan http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/kieran-boylan/

You would have thought that if the Gardai were already implicated in trafficking heroin then an allegation of a senior Garda being involved in the heroin trade in Athlone would have merited investigation by the tribunal.

For some reason Francis Fitzgerald and the Fine Gael govt, seemed to think that this part of Garda Harrisons complaints did not warrant any investigation at all by the tribunal. I have never seen a legitimate reason given for it. Really strange stuff.

blanch152 · 02-12-2017 11:29pm

Muahahaha wrote: »

The TDs took in good faith what they were told. Just as Leo did from his mammy Francy only last weekend.

What I have always wondered about the Keith Harrison section of the tribunal is why was his allegations against a detective in the Athlone district as being involved in running and profiting from the heroin trade never made part of the terms of reference? It is a pretty substantial allegation and yet the terms of reference as set out by Fine Gael omitted it. We already know that the Gardai have form when it comes to the supply of heroin with their protection of a known heroin trafficker Kieran Boylan http://www.broadsheet.ie/tag/kieran-boylan/

You would have thought that if the Gardai were already implicated in trafficking heroin then an allegation of a senior Garda being involved in the heroin trade in Athlone would have merited investigation by the tribunal.

For some reason Francis Fitzgerald and the Fine Gael govt, seemed to think that this part of Garda Harrisons complaints did not warrant any investigation at all by the tribunal. I have never seen a legitimate reason given for it. Really strange stuff.

You would think that people supporting Keith Harrison would be a little bit sheepish today following the findings of the Tribunal. Not so, it seems.

In the light of the findings, his claim about Athlone seems even more fantastical than before, yet some cling to the lack of credibility.

Hitman3000 · 02-12-2017 11:50pm

blanch152 wrote:

You would think that people supporting Keith Harrison would be a little bit sheepish today following the findings of the Tribunal. Not so, it seems.

Why? The TD's/people that supported him do so in good faith.

Muahahaha · 03-12-2017 12:02am

blanch152 wrote: »

You would think that people supporting Keith Harrison would be a little bit sheepish today following the findings of the Tribunal. Not so, it seems.

In the light of the findings, his claim about Athlone seems even more fantastical than before, yet some cling to the lack of credibility.

I am just interested into why Harrisons allegation the facilitation of iheroin dealing by a Garda dectective in Athlone was completely overlooked by Fine Gael when they framed the terms of reference?

Are you saying Harrison was lying about this episode? If he was then why did Fine Gael / Dept.of Justice / An Gardai not have it included in the terms of reference.

Trafficking of heroin by Gardai has already happened. Would you not think that investigating another instance of this should be a priority for any Minister of Justice ?

Should another Garda Commissioner resign?

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