Refugee Family Reunification

Odhinn · 15-11-2017 8:34am

511 wrote: »

While living in camps in Italy, Greece, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey? They're perfectly safe there, no need to bring them all the way to Ireland. It's also 10 times cheaper to look after them over there than bringing them here.

So screw the international community, somebody else can look after it?

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 8:51am

Odhinn wrote: »

511 wrote: »

While living in camps in Italy, Greece, Lebanon, Jordan and Turkey? They're perfectly safe there, no need to bring them all the way to Ireland. It's also 10 times cheaper to look after them over there than bringing them here.

So screw the international community, somebody else can look after it?

When our people are looked after THEN we can look after the rest of the world.

We give India millions. They have a space programme whilst we took five years to build a tram system linking the City and can't get trains to Donegal.

Odhinn · 15-11-2017 8:57am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

When our people are looked after THEN we can look after the rest of the world.

We give India millions. They have a space programme whilst we took five years to build a tram system linking the City and can't get trains to Donegal.

You're sure on that now?.....while you might well argue india shouldn't get a penny, its hardly an excuse not to target aid at the more deserving.

Peregrinus · 15-11-2017 9:01am

Odhinn wrote: »

You're sure on that now?.....while you might well argue india shouldn't get a penny, its hardly an excuse not to target aid at the more deserving.

Of course he's sure. He made it up, so it must be true.

Here in the real world, India does not feature in the top 30 recipients of Irish bilateral aid, which means that little, if any, Irish aid money goes to India. Certainly not "millions".

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 9:03am

Odhinn wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

When our people are looked after THEN we can look after the rest of the world.

We give India millions. They have a space programme whilst we took five years to build a tram system linking the City and can't get trains to Donegal.

You're sure on that now?.....while you might well argue india shouldn't get a penny, its hardly an excuse not to target aid at the more deserving.

That's exactly what it is.

How many years/decades have we been hoodwinked into "helping" Africa ? You don't think at some point enough is enough?

I was stopped by one of those chuggers the other day who said "we want to save the kids in Syria" and who wasn't impressed when I said "sure right after we've saved the kids on the streets in Limerick".

I have no issue with foreign aid. After we've taken care of our own people.

Odhinn · 15-11-2017 9:04am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

That's exactly what it is.

How many years/decades have we been hoodwinked into "helping" Africa ? You don't think at some point enough is enough?

I was stopped by one of those chuggers the other day who said "we want to save the kids in Syria" and who wasn't impressed when I said "sure right after we've saved the kids on the streets in Limerick".

I have no issue with foreign aid. After we've taken care of our own people.

It's possible to do both, believe it or not.

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 9:12am

Odhinn wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

That's exactly what it is.

How many years/decades have we been hoodwinked into "helping" Africa ? You don't think at some point enough is enough?

I was stopped by one of those chuggers the other day who said "we want to save the kids in Syria" and who wasn't impressed when I said "sure right after we've saved the kids on the streets in Limerick".

I have no issue with foreign aid. After we've taken care of our own people.

It's possible to do both, believe it or not.

No it's not.

I'd like to pay my bills AND go out on the razz each weekend. I can't as funds are limited.

I could "do both" and split funds but I just end up with a pi**ed off landlord and a night out that ends at half 8.

Peregrinus · 15-11-2017 9:15am

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I have no issue with foreign aid. After we've taken care of our own people.

But we already give vastly, vastly, vastly more to our own people than we give to anyone abroad.

No matter how much we give to our own people, we could always give more, the limit being reached only when we have given them everything we have. At which point, obviously, we can't give any foreign aid anyway.

It seems to me that your "no problem with foreign aid" claim is, um, less than accurate. Unless you have a view that there is a fixed limit to what we should do for our own people, it seems to be the logic of your position is that you will always have a problem with foreign aid.

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 9:19am

Peregrinus wrote: »

PeterParker957 wrote: »

I have no issue with foreign aid. After we've taken care of our own people.

But we already give vastly, vastly, vastly more to our own people than we give to anyone abroad.

No matter how much we give to our own people, we could always give more, the limit being reached only when we have given them everything we have. At which point, obviously, we can't give any foreign aid anyway.

It seems to me that your "no problem with foreign aid" claim is, um, less than accurate. Unless you have a view that there is a fixed limit to what we should do for our own people, it seems to be the logic of your position is that you will always have a problem with foreign aid.

Not so. Our people need everything we've got if there are people suffering

15-11-2017 9:29am

There's no real point completely fighting against the refugee system. It's going to happen regardless. However a few points:

1) Aid at the source. It was attempted a few times, and usually by throwing money into the area hoping the problem would disappear. There was little effort to pool the aid of all the contributors, form a serious organization to allocate the aid to projects, and a definite plan towards an endgame. A resolution for those people in neighboring areas. instead, it was simply setting up horribly run camps to hold them in position, which naturally failed. There's no reason why it couldn't be implemented again with better planning involved. There's this weird mentality that just because it failed the first few times, we can't learn to improve and implement a better system. Nah. Just fall back on the old asylum system instead.

2) As another poster pointed out, the aid given to asylum seekers when they arrive here could be counted as a loan. Like a mortgage over 20 years, with the remainder being dismissed if they do actually return home. That way there is an incentive for those to return, and the country actually manages to regain some of what is paid out.

3) I would prefer that citizenship not be just awarded to them for nothing. There should be conditions that recognize that they are from a different culture, religion etc and that they should earn the right to receive it. Perhaps by working and contributing to the economy for five-ten years before citizenship is awarded?

Ireland is recovering economically, but it's not there yet. And even, when it does recover it's not going to be as 'rich' as before the crash. Fact is, Ireland's economic model is rather shaky, and it makes sense to husband our resources as much as we can until we have solved the problems at home before importing more problems from abroad. Encouraging more refugees of old people and young children (psychiatric care) is going to increase the strain on Irelands medical services, at a time when those services aren't doing great anyway.

I really have no issue with Asylum seekers/refugees as long as
A) we actually know if they're going to stay or leave later (this seems incredibly an unknown),

That we have a definite plan to integrate them into both our society and economy (there doesn't seem to be a plan, just let things happen as they will)
C) that the monies allocated to help them are properly managed and there is a return on those costs (not profit, but something to reduce the loss over time).

topper75 · 15-11-2017 12:03pm

Odhinn wrote: »

The battle of kinsale......

"The Flight of the Earls (Irish: Imeacht na nIarlaí) took place on 4 September 1607, when Hugh O'Neill, Earl of Tyrone and Rory O'Donnell, 1st earl of Tyrconnell, and about ninety followers left Ulster in Ireland for mainland Europe."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_of_the_Earls

Think you completely missed the point. The ordinary people of Munster stayed, got on with it, and rebuilt. They didn't bugger off to Spain. Those earls were not from Munster and anywhere near the battlefields.

This idea that you can indefinitely live on somebody else's couch because there has been a fire over at your place... when the firemen have moved off - time to get over there and start sorting it, no?

And for that matter, I think the earls kind of outstayed the welcome below eventually. The Spanish didn't see it as their business to be fighting their wars for them all the time.

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:04pm

The majority of people in Ireland would prefer not to take in anymore migrants, they would prefer the Government look after who's here already. Fix the problems we have already because adding more people will make the problems worse
One refugee wanted to bring in 70 family members so imagine if they all want to do the same what are we going to do?

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 2:06pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

The majority of people in Ireland would prefer not to take in anymore migrants, they would prefer the Government look after who's here already. Fix the problems we have already because adding more people will make the problems worse
One refugee wanted to bring in 70 family members so imagine if they all want to do the same what are we going to do?

+1

seamus · 15-11-2017 2:09pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

One refugee wanted to bring in 70 family members

Have you got a citation for this?

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 2:13pm

seamus wrote: »

Have you got a citation for this?

http://www.politicalirish.com/threads/a-refugee-applied-to-bring-in-70-family-members-under-family-reunification-program.24290/

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:14pm

seamus wrote: »

Have you got a citation for this?

Yes, listen to the whole clip the guy from Concern says we should be taking siblings even if they are adults. Luckily the presenter caught him out about the siblings having families as well

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fTMOgUwYKxI

Kivaro · 15-11-2017 2:15pm

It is quite apparent that refugee and asylum seeking has indeed become a very large industry in Ireland, which probably explains some of the comments by NGO/vested-interests posters on here. What it has done to a large portion of the Irish population is desensitise us from the genuine refugees overseas who need help.

When I heard about this decision last night, I wondered about the older family members of refugees. Thinking about the contributory and non-contributory pensions; a 68-year old relative of a refugee can now come to Ireland and get the non-contributory pension. I believe that there is a €11 or so difference between the contributory and non-contributory pension.
It does not seem right that a man or woman in this country who worked 40 years or greater of their lives in Ireland gets a small amount more than a similarly aged person who just arrives in the country under this reunification program.

If the Irish people were given the opportunity to vote on this program, it would be a overwhelming vote against.

A Little Pony · 15-11-2017 2:16pm

So will the Irish people get a vote over this or will it be enforced by the overlord globalists who run the place?

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 2:18pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

So will the Irish people get a vote over this or will it be enforced by the overlord globalists who run the place?

Not in a billion years will we.

And even if we do Lord Murphy and his rich but pretend to men and women of the people will campaign vigorously in favour of taking in more.

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:21pm

Well Longford is on course to be a majority non white county by 2050
http://www.longfordleader.ie/news/home/280520/longford-to-be-mixed-race-county-by-2050.html#.WgRzJTlRj7k.twitter

seamus · 15-11-2017 2:21pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

http://www.politicalirish.com/threads/a-refugee-applied-to-bring-in-70-family-members-under-family-reunification-program.24290/

Thanks. Functionally uncorroborated figures said in the Dail.

But we'll take it at face value anyway. An application to bring in 70 family members doesn't mean all or even any of those family members are going to be accepted in.

The legislation sets out the mechanisms by which the application is assessed and accepted or rejected. So it makes no odds whether every refugee applies for 2 or 2000 family members to join - they will all be individually assessed to see whether they qualify for reunification.

All hysteria over nothing.

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:21pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

Not in a billion years will we.

And even if we do Lord Murphy and his rich but pretend to men and women of the people will campaign vigorously in favour of taking in more.

Wait for the next general election, the major parties will be in for a shock;)

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:23pm

seamus wrote: »

Thanks. Functionally uncorroborated figures said in the Dail.

But we'll take it at face value anyway. An application to bring in 70 family members doesn't mean all or even any of those family members are going to be accepted in.

The legislation sets out the mechanisms by which the application is assessed and accepted or rejected. So it makes no odds whether every refugee applies for 2 or 2000 family members to join - they will all be individually assessed to see whether they qualify for reunification.

All hysteria over nothing.

Did you listen to the clip? The guy from Concern says we should take all of a family including adult siblings + their families

A Little Pony · 15-11-2017 2:25pm

PeterParker957 wrote: »

A Little Pony wrote: »

So will the Irish people get a vote over this or will it be enforced by the overlord globalists who run the place?

Not in a billion years will we.

And even if we do Lord Murphy and his rich but pretend to men and women of the people will campaign vigorously in favour of taking in more.

Don't let them get away with it, campaign against it. It is not the fault of the Irish people for those stupid wars which have destabilized the Middle East which has lead to this clusterf*ck. These scumbag bastards from Tony Blair and George Bush and other globalists are responsible for this mess and now they are trying to force the consequences of it onto people in Europe.

seamus · 15-11-2017 2:25pm

Help!!!! wrote: »

Did you listen to the clip? The guy from Concern says we should take all of a family including adult siblings + their families

I listened to first part of it.

Concern doesn't make the law, so his opinion is irrelevant.

The law as proposed doesn't allow anyone to apply for a sibling to be brought over unless that sibling is dependent on the sponsor.

An adult sibling who has their own family by definition cannot be a dependent on another adult sibling.

Hysteria.

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 2:27pm

seamus wrote: »

I listened to first part of it.

Concern doesn't make the law, so his opinion is irrelevant.

The law as proposed doesn't allow anyone to apply for a sibling to be brought over unless that sibling is dependent on the sponsor.

An adult sibling who has their own family by definition cannot be a dependent on another adult sibling.

Hysteria.

I'm not 100% sure you know the definition of hysteria.

PeterParker957 · 15-11-2017 2:28pm

seamus wrote: »

I listened to first part of it.

Concern doesn't make the law, so his opinion is irrelevant.

The law as proposed doesn't allow anyone to apply for a sibling to be brought over unless that sibling is dependent on the sponsor.

An adult sibling who has their own family by definition cannot be a dependent on another adult sibling.

Hysteria.

Oh and yes they can - they can argue financial dependence, emotional dependence etc - the same grounds that an adult child can use to contest a legally drawn up will, if they were being supported by the deceased.

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:28pm

seamus wrote: »

I listened to first part of it.

Concern doesn't make the law, so his opinion is irrelevant.

The law as proposed doesn't allow anyone to apply for a sibling to be brought over unless that sibling is dependent on the sponsor.

An adult sibling who has their own family by definition cannot be a dependent on another adult sibling.

Hysteria.

Well believe that if you want

Donal55 · 15-11-2017 2:28pm

Kivaro wrote: »

It is quite apparent that refugee and asylum seeking has indeed become a very large industry in Ireland, which probably explains some of the comments by NGO/vested-interests posters on here. What it has done to a large portion of the Irish population is desensitise us from the genuine refugees overseas who need help.

When I heard about this decision last night, I wondered about the older family members of refugees. Thinking about the contributory and non-contributory pensions; a 68-year old relative of a refugee can now come to Ireland and get the non-contributory pension. I believe that there is a €11 or so difference between the contributory and non-contributory pension.
It does not seem right that a man or woman in this country who worked 40 years or greater of their lives in Ireland gets a small amount more than a similarly aged person who just arrives in the country under this reunification program.

If the Irish people were given the opportunity to vote on this program, it would be a overwhelming vote against.

Plenty of women already getting approx €1500 pa less than others with their pensions.
Funnily enough however, on budget day, Paschal said he couldn't fix this anomoly at this moment in time because, eh, 'it would cost too much, and we don't have the money'.

I'm glad to see however he does have the money to throw at others whilst leaving Irish women out.

Help!!!! · 15-11-2017 2:30pm

A Little Pony wrote: »

Don't let them get away with it, campaign against it. It is not the fault of the Irish people for those stupid wars which have destabilized the Middle East which has lead to this clusterf*ck. These scumbag bastards from Tony Blair and George Bush and other globalists are responsible for this mess and now they are trying to force the consequences of it onto people in Europe.

At the next general election we will get the chance

Refugee Family Reunification

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