Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

jcd5971 wrote: »

If people like me are left out that's unfortunate but understandable, things move on and grow, sometimes you just have to move on.

As I said I bear no Ill will (pun) go arcs anyone over this and hope ye all feel the same.

If any of you have left and change your mind over the community thing it's not a problem reaccepting you onto the page, just apply and we will re add you no problem, of course we have no ill will towards any of you...

Right... Screw it I'll dip my toe in.

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.
We hit a good run of it around TTK and there was often a good mix of groupings and people were very willing to help each other out.
It's human nature to be clicky but we should all try to avoid the instinct and be more inclusive.
I've tried to use the communities app a little but it just doesn't have the instant reach I want when I'm playing Destiny.

I felt a little put out by the forced closure of the chat and I don't think the Communities App is ready for such large scale use.
I get that Admins are trying to act in the best interest of the group but such sweeping changes are probably worthy of a group discussion.

We are in a board.ie clan. It's a discussion board with an option of voting.
Should we ever kick non boardsies out? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Should we say that any major decisions will be made on Boards? Yeah I think that's fair. Everyone gets to have an opinion and if they're not a member but feel they want to vote on an item or make their opinion heard then just sign up for a Boards account.

Leave the Admins to doing admin, leave the decisions to democracy.

The situation as it stands is not working (IMO) but we can't go back to messages, at least that seems to be the general concensus.

Should we just have a vote with something like the following?

1. Do you like Communities (yes/no)
2. Will you use Communities (yes/no)
3. Would you sign up for and use an app that doesn't work directly on the PS4... Probably Discord? (yes/no)

jcd5971 wrote: »

This sums up my whole argument but just more eloquently.

Also I read it and thought jaysus conovar has just pulled a complete 180 here.

The I realised you are two different people, and life went back to normal. Also this happens to me on a regular basis.

No worries, sure I waved at a JCB yesterday. Imagine how I felt when I realised it wasn't you

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I personally think a lot of this is down to the game and content being new. People are only starting to learn it themselves and want to do that in the groups they are most used to. Maybe that is just wrong, but it is how I see things right now.

I think when the raid is more well known and people are more comfortable with it all then we will see stuff pop up and group up more often.

I honestly think it being a new game, but an older community (in terms of the time the community has been around) is a lot of what the issues are here are coming from. I know that when it comes to brand new content I am very likely to be playing it with certain people the first time around. Just looking at my raid completion and story completion groups from D1 in the D2 intro shows that. Though obviously my experience could be unique to me.

I think there are 2 groups of 6 that fall under that description, and I personally, don't have an issue with it. It's the same heads who are ABLE to run the raid blind fresh soon as released. I get that. I'm not able to do that. Usually, by the time I get on and am hoping to get a group together, most people would have grouped up by that time. Again, I don't have an issue with that.

Of the 5 raids that are in the Destiny Universe, I generally only get to run them week 2 of release. It'll never stop me trying to get a group together though. I'm optimistic like that.

SeanHarty wrote: »

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Look, in all honesty, that's pretty fair and valid feedback.

And I, and I'm sure the other lads, will take that on board and try and garner more feedback for major stuff (if it occurs) in future before we make any changes.

We tried to make these changes kind of gradually over the last 4 weeks (some of your probably noticed that), and I do think a lot of the messaging on "why" was probably lost on people for a variety of reasons

In hindsight, I should have done a big write up here on Boards about what was happening, why, how, where and with relevant links and spread that word via here, PSN and Bungie.net (fun fun fun).... that would probably have helped soften the blow but there would have been a blow none the less.

Perhaps with the state of the game a bit different now (end game etc), and the weekend coming up, and the Bungie Clan 1 Chat being gone, perhaps we can swallow our emotions and just try and give Communities a shot for even an activity each.

It's not laid out beautifully I concede, but maybe some of you so vehemently against it can actually give it a shot and see while it's no LFG site, it does have some functionality thats fit for purpose.
Maybe not, I'm just advocating giving it a shot, I've used it myself for the NF and a few nights for some PvP bouts. It's not Windows Vista like tbf

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but the one feature I think more people should make use of is the Event function. I find that works well for getting people in for ad hoc stuff.

the chat in communities wasn't getting it done. I think the use of the Event feature is absolutely key to communities being of any use.

Yeah, I was kind of hoping that Events can kind of replace the need for creating mini-chats for stuff like Raids etc (1st weeks blind run aside)

I might start turning some of my current "posts" into events and see what kind of traction that gets

Then again, I'm probably playing a hell of a lot more pvp than most the last week, I'd say a few more will be dipping the toe in now :P
Then again, the style of play in the crucible, overall D2 changes and move to 4v4 has probably turned a good chunck of people off it.
Kind of off topic but the times when you do have a close, sweaty game and use tactics and teamshotting and scrape by with a win have been hella satisfying :P

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

I'm on Android, and I get notifications to reply's. Nothing on new posts. I have the phone beside me when I'm playing, so I check the communities every 15 mins or so. It's not ideal, but it's not game breaking or community breaking. It's an extra step to actively refresh the feed on your phone.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

I don't, stupid fking app keeps signing me out if inactive for 30mins.

jonnycivic wrote: »

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

Conar wrote: »

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.

This is actually something that I've noticed improve because of communities.

I still have a strong dislike of it fwiw, It's essentially not functional for me. I don't get notifications and have to check it manually and that's a pain in the hole.

But there is a better mix of people on fireteams now. Usually one or two people playing with a couple of 'regulars' now.

I've raided with two sets of people now and there has been at least one person I'd not played with before in each one of those teams, at least for the earlier stages. Of course that's just my own observation and YMMV.

But 1 -2 'new' peeps raiding in the first week with older players is a step up from how things were imo. I'm glad to see that.

Now, holding on to players to raid with for consecutive nights is a different story :pac:

goon_magee wrote: »

Polls on here for big clan decisions going forward should be the norm I think.

Yup, will take this on board for big changes in future.

At the minute it seems the only people championing communities are those that were involved in the decision at the start. Granted opinions are being sought now, but that's how it should have been from the start.

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

Something like random raid nights could work great in a few weeks when a good few have the mechanics down. Everyone who has availability throws there name into a hat then someone (possibly one of our streamers who could draw on stream to keep it legit) draws a few random teams of 6 who all group up and raid on say a Saturday night or whenever suits the team.

Definitely something we can organise, but more than likely it will be a week or two at best down the line.

Throwing calendar events will also be a good way of measuring activity and assessing is there really a need to abandon the old messaging system. Social events will make the inactive players even more obvious.

Monitoring Clan/Community activity is not something we can do over days or weeks, we need months worth of Data, but it is something we'll look at. We'll keep an eye out for people who are basically just in the clan, collecting their engrams, but not utilising Communities to play with new or old clanmates etc.

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)
And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.
Best of both worlds.

We tried something similar to this before.
We had 100+ people, so 100 of the most 'old school" players ended up in the Main chat.
The 30 newbies ended up in chat 2 with 40 of the most active/hardcore players.
The result, the 2nd Chat was dead, the 40 most active players continued grouping up with the existing 60 players in the other chat.
All in all, it was a terrible split and exactly why we went with Communities.
When given 2 options, most will chose the path of least resistance.
What you're proposing there would basically be throwing 50 people into an elitism chat and actually in a round about way, it will make Communities even more dead
See my above point to Goon. We had 2 systems, people chose the 'path of least resistance'

General Non-Rossi directed points below:

It's been 9 pages now of this whataboutery and tbh, I still haven't heard a single, tangible bit of feedback on Communities other than "I don't get Notifications for new posts".
If that is truly the stickler some players want to plant their flag in the sand over we can't change that.
Remember that is a PSN Bug/Error that is now resulting in people giving us, personally, negative feedback. Why not send your feedback to Playstation?
If the people with the biggest issues with Communities don't want to post on it out of protest, or in an effort to 'hamstring' it's activity to prove their 'point' well thats a decision I, nor anyone else, has any control over and no words will probably change.

There was ~80 posts on the Community page yesterday (midnight to midnight).
So many players are giving it an shot, finding groups and mingling about.
As Totz pointed out above the cross-pollination is good so far.
With Wonda-Boy (fair play to him) having a really positive come-one-come-all approach and organising a raid open to anyone there and basically 5 newbies (+ Beard) actually organising a raid too.
It's not a pretty UI or App but people are using it, and they are doing so in a way which aligns with the type of values we've always tried to embody as a Clan.

Some parties are having a hard time adapting to the change to Communities, but you cannot expect the solution for you to be that 180 others set up accounts for various other sites or apps, and use those instead, despite them having no PSN tie-in.

So while we're all still open to feedback maybe focus on proposed solutions that fill the below requirements:
1) Allows all member for all clans to interact with each other in 1 place
2) Is tied into PSN so allows people to not have a Computer nearby and get (some, not all) notifications on their PS4

Again, seems like a PSN Bug/Issue has basically caused a silly amount of negative feelings here over the last 36 hours.
Tbh, I'm pushing on 32yo now, I'm going to try enjoy the video game, play with some new people (1st time playing with Jimbob last night for example :pac:), some old people and just refresh the Communties App on my mobile to see all posts.
Which while not ideal, is something that lets me interact with all 190 people in one place.

I've been reading this and not really saying anything as I'm new enough to the clan so didn't really know the history etc.

I do have to chip in on the above from Totz though, and this is not an attack on you Generic, just want to make that clear.
For someone who is championing the community app for organising everything, you stick to your own "silo'd" group to raid with etc.

Community app is fairly poo I'll admit, but thankfully people are trying to use it, maybe it'll get better as the game settles a bit.

I tend to use boards to look for raids, usually have. I'll try use communities for other activities though.

I hate having to deal with this petty stuff every single Raid launch, but sure, here we go again...

My name is URL wrote: »

I've been posting in the community. Tried for the last 2 nights to organise a raid.

After giving up on trying to get a fresh run going, I posted last night that I was looking for a spot in one that was already underway.

Noticed your team was raiding and at some point yous invited a guy that hasn't been active or played with the clan in over a year in to replace someone.

You can only really be referring to one of 2 people here.

TerryChev left, he'd been raiding with us (blind) for 5 separate evenings since Wednesday 13th September.
http://destinytracker.com/d2/profile/psn/GenericDreadhead
Feel free to look over my Raid game history for the last 7 days and see that is the case.
He's been on my "Blind" Raid teams in the past.

We were on the Boss, we wanted to kill him, so we wanted someone with experience.
The only person online, not in an activity with other clan members or friends, who had Raid experience was Hochspitch - he had killed the Raid boss (as evidenced by his emblem)
He is ALSO someone who has been in my "Blind" raid teams too (him and Terry both featuring in KF or WotM at launch)
Feel free to go have a look at my D1 Raid 1st Attempts via DestinyTracker if thats what you want.

We weren't interested in talking/explaining through it as we'd been on it two nights, and we had the strategy clear, just needed to execute on it.
As with any Raid, I want to actually complete it myself before I branch out.
If there was a whole bunch of people online that I missed who could come in (at 23:10pm btw) and join at the final boss and jump right in basically just being told:
"Ad's on the right 1st, You're team teleport, grab the left spark, we're taking Dogs plate 1st"
... and do the business, I'd apologise. There wasn't.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

I've been Raiding with a combination of my real-life friends and people who I have done blind raids with at launch before.
And that group has been fairly static the last 7 days.
When I haven't been trying to finish the Raid myself, I've either been in PvP.
And when I wasn't, I sherpa'd 3 lads (McMafia, Madra and Werehampster) through the Baths by posting in the Community page.
Conovar, Nev, NoCal, Wes, Madra, Mafia and Linksenn can attest to this being the case (if you don't feel like reviewing my game history) fwiw.

You seem to have been focused on watching what my group was doing.
Perhaps you could have just asked me if there was a spot going?
To which I would have replied "Yeah, we're on the boss now, if you know what to do, jump in". Simples.
Don't know why you're trying to "put me on blast" here frankly.

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?