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Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    Well TBH fielddog, I havent seen much of it but isnt there a clan chat thing through the bungie/destiny app now? Altho I just checked it and cant find it anymore :confused:

    To me that was thriving because I was getting plenty of notifications from it so maybe use that in conjunction with community but as it stands right now the community is actually useless. I havent gamed with any of the usual lads I would jump on with etc and thats solely down to the chat been shut down. I also think JCD does have a valid point that all things to do with the boards destiny clan should be discussed openly on boards first and foremost and not just hidden away in the background and users just told hey do this as this is what we have decided you do.

    That chat within the Destiny app was just for whatever Clan you are with though, it doesn't include the other clan so it's well and good using that when others from the other clan's can't see it or interact with it... (which is what leads us back to the initial problem with it also!)

    It's not our fault the way the this is set up on PSN, we want EVERYONE included, not just Clan 1 chat on Bungie app, and Clan 2 don't get a look in and vice versa...


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Fieldog wrote: »
    That chat within the Destiny app was just for whatever Clan you are with though, it doesn't include the other clan so it's well and good using that when others from the other clan's can't see it or interact with it... (which is what leads us back to the initial problem with it also!)

    It's not our fault the way the this is set up on PSN, we want EVERYONE included, not just Clan 1 chat on Bungie app, and Clan 2 don't get a look in and vice versa...

    Who is this "We"??


  • Registered Users Posts: 67 ✭✭roadie_2013


    Hey all,

    I am new to the clan so I hope ye don't mind me offering an opinion on the whole messages issue.

    I can easily understand why the approach to use communities was taken - as it was the only option when it came to being all inclusive and having it on the PS. However, as it has already been pointed out, it does not work as expected. Since joining the clan and the community page I have never received any notifications from either app on phone or on the PS - despite having both of them switched on. Unless you have the phone in your hand and are constantly refreshing you end up missing posts.

    My personal preference would be to use Discord but I can appreciate this is not everyone's preference. I use it daily already. Notifications can be switched on and off very easily for different channels on the server so you would receive instant notifications for anything that may be going on. Granted you would have to use your phone but as it stands you have to do that already to use something that is inferior.
    It is quite possible the majority have the app downloaded already. I am sure not everyone had the communities app downloaded when they joined and had to do so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    Who is this "We"??

    We as in the Clan, we want everyone included, if there is 10 clans it would be the same, I don't want anyone left out of chat if they are in a Clan, or feeling they are in a "lesser" clan because of a number after their clan name


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Fieldog wrote: »
    We as in the Clan, we want everyone included, if there is 10 clans it would be the same, I don't want anyone left out of chat if they are in a Clan, or feeling they are in a "lesser" clan because of a number after their clan name

    No FD your dodging the questions now, you and who else have been involved in deciding what way our clan is going??

    Right now as it stands I do feel as if I am in a lesser clan and I am in Clan 1. Decisions are been made with no input from the people that use it the most which is very wrong.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    No FD you dodging the questions now, you and who else have been involved in deciding what way our clan is going??

    Right now as it stands I do feel as if I am in a lesser clan and I am in Clan 1. Decisions are been made with no input from the people that use it the most which is very wrong.

    I'm not dodging anything man, it's all clear as mud :)

    Me,
    Generic,
    Conovar,
    Nocal
    Optimus
    Sniper
    Solvable

    Are the admins of the clans, we tend to butt heads and try decide what could work for everyone, we are open to any input from anyone...

    We don't want you to feel you are any less being in any number clan - this would all be done away with if you could have over 100 people in a Clan, or over 100 people in messages, but we can't...

    I'm open to trying anything to keep everyone happy, could try discord if we have to?


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Fieldog wrote: »
    I'm not dodging anything man, it's all clear as mud :)

    Me,
    Generic,
    Conovar,
    Nocal
    Optimus
    Sniper
    Solvable

    Are the admins of the clans, we tend to butt heads and try decide what could work for everyone, we are open to any input from anyone...

    We don't want you to feel you are any less being in any number clan - this would all be done away with if you could have over 100 people in a Clan, or over 100 people in messages, but we can't...

    I'm open to trying anything to keep everyone happy, could try discord if we have to?

    Well sorry but if there was discussions in the background on this then no its not clear as mud, up to now I didnt know who was making these decisions and I am pretty sure 90% of the clan were not aware of that either so that in itself is hardly clear as mud is it? Now as a collective clan we are near 200 members yet 7 people have had the complete say on what happens with the clan with no input from the near 190 others. Thats not fair.
    And no offence to you FD but I havent seen you active around the clan for well over a year now either yet you appear to be the new voice of the clan.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭SolvableKnave


    I think this discussion is heading in a direction that would be best avoided. Can everyone take it back a notch?

    Is communities working as we had hoped? No.
    Does it allow all 190+ people a central place to arrange activities? Yes.

    There are pro's and cons to all options. Currently, the lesser inconvenience is communities with people actively checking the app every now and then.

    PSMessages, as has been pointed out, does not allow for more than 100 people. We surpass that number.
    Bungie Clans does not allow for more than 100 people. We surpass that number.

    I'm open to trying Discord. I have my phone with me at all times really, so Discord or Communities, I'm always checking.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    To be honest there is no perfect solution here.

    "Hopefully eventually, communities gets sorted"

    That seems to be the hope and that its for the better for everyone.

    Well it simply is not the move happened with 0 consultation and actually made the clan worse off for making it

    The communities was trialed during d1 as well and with a choice it failed hard, then with communities having had no improvements made to it was made the solution this is it deal with it.

    I agree with Johnny really this should have been discussed on boards. Its boards clan not fieldog and generics clan

    Again not a dig at all want to stress that.

    For its faults I'm still of the opinion that messages was a better system than what he have "currently"


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭dudeeile


    Bungie groups is still running but I can't find details or specifics on its actual operation, is there a member limit? Is it going to be shutdown?

    If it stays running and can accommodate more than 100 then it may be an option, I'm guessing it will have at least to same functionality of the clan chat.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭dudeeile


    I keep seeing this no dig and no naming and no this and that but making that point after you're throwing it about doesn't make it any less ****ty.

    It ain't helping, here's your chance for input but you'd rather just throw insults and accusations at people trying to make this work for over 3 years.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    Without getting into nitty gritty, I set the Clan up initially back when this game was in Alpha, then Beta, and then full game, it went from an initial few of us playing ages ago (pre TTK) and as the game has ballooned, so has the Clan...

    There is no one person here bigger than the other, the reason that the few of us "admins" try to sort things out between us is for everyone, we don't want what you are feeling now Jonny, that there is any divide between numbers, by all means we can hash it out here and hopefully get a solution between the lot of us that works for everyone, that's all I want at the end of the day...

    Somewhere that we can all see, no matter what clan you are in, and something that preferably gives us notifications on what is going on, as it stands on consoles that's the community app thing, as I said, I'm open to trying Discord but not sure how the rest of the Clan would feel...

    We could do a poll and see how people feel if you want?


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,202 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    jonnycivic wrote: »
    Well TBH fielddog, I havent seen much of it but isnt there a clan chat thing through the bungie/destiny app now? Altho I just checked it and cant find it anymore :confused:

    To me that was thriving because I was getting plenty of notifications from it so maybe use that in conjunction with community but as it stands right now the community is actually useless. I havent gamed with any of the usual lads I would jump on with etc and thats solely down to the chat been shut down. I also think JCD does have a valid point that all things to do with the boards destiny clan should be discussed openly on boards first and foremost and not just hidden away in the background and users just told hey do this as this is what we have decided you do.

    There is a clan chat in the bungie app and in game, but it is limited to the clan you are a part of.

    So it is the same issue that PSN messages had - 2 (or 3 clans) with 200+ members and no way for them all to talk to each other in one place. The exact reason we changed from PSN Messages to Communities.

    We don't want Clan 1 to be its own clan and Clan 2 to be a clan on its own - we are supposed to be one clan together - if the messaging function for group ups is segregated then its a huge problem.

    Why are people perfectly fine with excluding half the clan? I don't understand this attitude at all.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭SolvableKnave


    dudeeile wrote: »
    Bungie groups is still running but I can't find details or specifics on its actual operation, is there a member limit? Is it going to be shutdown?

    If it stays running and can accommodate more than 100 then it may be an option, I'm guessing it will have at least to same functionality of the clan chat.

    The Bungie thing is a per clan only thing I think. Which, while it might work, splits the overall community in 2.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    The Bungie thing is a per clan only thing I think. Which, while it might work, splits the overall community in 2.

    This is the problem all along tbh


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,146 ✭✭✭dudeeile


    The Bungie thing is a per clan only thing I think. Which, while it might work, splits the overall community in 2.

    Nah knave there's a groups section also, it may be possible to maintain clans as-is but then have everyone in a single group. As I said I can't find the full details so I'm only putting another possible option out there.

    Maybe if there was a Bungie mod about :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    Ok so what I'm seeing here in summary is essentially the problem is Communities does not generate a notification on PSN when ANY post is made. But we're proposing Discord as a possible "solution" to this issue and that will generate no PSN Notifications since it's totally separate on an App. I don't follow that line of logic tbh.

    I mean I have Discord myself for other games, so I have no issue with it. But it's not a solution to the problem people have.

    The solution would be that Playstation actually fix the notifications, but of course that's not in our remit to control


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    dudeeile wrote: »
    Nah knave there's a groups section also, it may be possible to maintain clans as-is but then have everyone in a single group. As I said I can't find the full details so I'm only putting another possible option out there.

    Does this work with outside clan's of what one you are numbered in?

    If it does allow other people from outside the Clan that could be an answer, if it doesn't we are back to square one...

    I don't see how it would let me add people from Clan 2 (not my clan) into a Clan 1 chat but it it did that would be amazing


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,202 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    dudeeile wrote: »
    Bungie groups is still running but I can't find details or specifics on its actual operation, is there a member limit? Is it going to be shutdown?

    If it stays running and can accommodate more than 100 then it may be an option, I'm guessing it will have at least to same functionality of the clan chat.

    with bungie you are either a clan or a group - I don't think creating a group would help our situation as it isn't in an game communication tool as far as I know.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,549 ✭✭✭jcd5971


    dudeeile wrote:
    It ain't helping, here's your chance for input but you'd rather just throw insults and accusations at people trying to make this work for over 3 years.


    I've done no such thing dude and you know it

    This is the place to discuss this and where the discussion should have happened in the first place.

    Trust me I don't want to fall out with people I've been playing with for 2.5 years

    But I felt this was a bad idea, and on review of first 2 weeks of launch it appears to be not working.

    This is obviously just my opinion

    Hence the post.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    jcd5971 wrote: »
    I've done no such thing dude and you know it

    This is the place to discuss this and where the discussion should have happened in the first place.

    Trust me I don't want to fall out with people I've been playing with for 2.5 years

    But I felt this was a bad idea, and on review of first 2 weeks of launch it appears to be not working.

    This is obviously just my opinion

    Hence the post.

    No need for anyone to get thick over this, this clan has fostered some good friendships and put together some great times over the years we are active - we should all be trying to brainstorm something that we all can use...

    Any suggestions JCD?

    Bear in mind we need to include over the initial 100 people and have it so we can all get the notification...


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,202 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Ok so what I'm seeing here in summary is essentially the problem is Communities does not generate a notification on PSN when ANY post is made. But we're proposing Discord as a possible "solution" to this issue and that will generate no PSN Notifications since it's totally separate on an App. I don't follow that line of logic tbh.

    I mean I have Discord myself for other games, so I have no issue with it. But it's not a solution to the problem people have.

    The solution would be that Playstation actually fix the notifications, but of course that's not in our remit to control

    Discord isn't actually being put forward as a solution. Its just an example of what was looked at.

    As for what it would solve:

    Notifications on mobile/computer - yes.
    All clan members can communicate in one location (and generate those notifications).

    As you say though, yep - it doesn't have in game notifications and it would also require people to install/sign up for Discord.

    If we are only looking at in-game solutions then we only have:

    PSN Messages
    Communities
    Bungie Clan Chat.

    Only one of them allows Clan 1 and Clan 2 to interact so only one of them is viable in any way.

    If we take on board criticism of the way it was decided and communicated - then what are the alternative solutions people would like to propose.

    If it is PSN Messages or Clan Chat - how do they propose we are going to keep Clan 1 and Clan 2 integrated or do they only want to game with the people in their specific clan? Is there a workaround they propose?

    Its possible that we simply should have kept the clans to people that are on here, which would reduce the numbers dramatically - but that is possibly a thing we just can't go back to now.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    There is a clan chat in the bungie app and in game, but it is limited to the clan you are a part of.

    But from my understanding hasnt that clan chat been shut down now??

    I understand there will still be a split between clan 1, clan 2 and clan 3 etc. Im not saying that is the answer but lets be honest about this here and now. I have heard nothing but complaints from people in the clan about how all this was handled in the background with no community opinions/consultation.

    It appears to have fragmented the community that has been built up over the past 3 years. And to give an example I used to game alot with plenty of the lads, I have only gamed with I think 10 odd different people since D2 launch. Hell in my first week in the clan I must have gamed with 30-40 different people. That in itself shows that a large portion of the community are either not bothered with the community or just cant get the hang of whats its supposed to do.

    Lets face it, right now its a mess, we all know its a mess but its not going to change when its the exact same 7 people in the background making the decisions. There could be several platforms out there to sort this issue out but the 7 decision makers may not know about it where as others in the community may have better knowledge of those systems.

    Like many options are available which would include the likes of:

    Facebook Groups
    Whatsapp Groups
    Discord
    A private forum where everyone can be included
    Etc.

    But IMO (Not that its worth much around here) 1st and foremost anything to do with the clan should be done publically here in the forum on Boards, it is the Boards.ie Destiny clan afterall, if that cant be done then its hardly a boards clan is it. Thats goes for arranging raids, trials teams, quests etc. Then if you cant fill the numbers you moved on to whatever platform the clan are on, which in the past was the chat. There was transparancy with that system that is not available with what we are currently using. And an example of that would be the Raid Groups from wednesday, I for one didnt see some of the raid groups posted about here on Boards or on the community page when they were been setup so I know as fact plenty of the new members and even some of the old members were put out by this because it was said to me by a few people. That in itself fractures the group.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,470 ✭✭✭SolvableKnave


    with bungie you are either a clan or a group - I don't think creating a group would help our situation as it isn't in an game communication tool as far as I know.

    Yeah, Groups is on the Bungie website only. Nothing in game. So, again, while it might work, your still back to the issue of not getting in game notifications. So, your back to checking something every now and then, as is the case with Communities currently.


  • Registered Users Posts: 45,202 ✭✭✭✭Mitch Connor


    Can we get away from any talk of insults or anger please - and get to an actual discussion.

    If people don't like communities - what are the solutions they propose. Lets discuss what changes could be made.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    Can we get away from any talk of insults or anger please - and get to an actual discussion.

    If people don't like communities - what are the solutions they propose. Lets discuss what changes could be made.

    I for one cant see any insults posted here because if there was then I would be bringing my shiny mod hammer out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,870 ✭✭✭✭Generic Dreadhead


    We find it tricky enough to get a consensus for 8 people, never mind 190, of which (maybe?) 50 use Boards.ie :P
    We've always tried to pick good people to make good decisions for the clan as a whole going right back to when it was originally just Fieldog, Sniper and Myself running it.
    As the Clans grew, that number of Admins grew to 9 (3 per clan) then and now it's 8 (4 per clan).
    It's never been "Fieldogs Clan or Generics Clan" and tbh, it's personally disappointing that is even being touted about after the level of effort we've put in to be inclusive, listen to feedback and do whats best for the Clan.
    And really, that's all I'm going to say on the matter.

    What's the best decision here for the majority of the clan? - Go back to using messages (100 clear winners there)
    What's the best decision here for the whole of the clan? - Communities is the "best" option.

    Do I absolutely adore Communties? No
    Is it still a few updates behind where we want it to be? Absolutely
    Does it function for what we need it to now? For the most part
    What are it's biggest issues? No notification for ALL posts (notifications for replies seem to work better) and it's 1 click more cumbersome to navigate to on PSN
    Are these issues we try and accept now for the greater good? I would have hoped so

    It's been 8 days since the game came out.
    A lot of people don't have a "need" to group up until they hit 265 which can take like 24 gameplay hours (on 1st character approximately)
    I've seen Communities get more and more busy over the last few days as more people hit the 260+ power level and now want/require grouping up.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 18,459 Mod ✭✭✭✭Kimbot


    We find it tricky enough to get a consensus for 8 people, never mind 190, of which (maybe?) 50 use Boards.ie :P

    Well if 50 only used Boards.ie then why are they in the Boards.ie clan. Its a clan setup for the users of the forum, plain and simple as that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,575 ✭✭✭✭Riesen_Meal


    I completely understand where Jonny is coming from, and all of you, when we made the decision of community app it wasn't one that was taken (forgive the pun) lightly, we can open up chat on the Bungie app again but that would just be for your respective clan number, and forge a division clan wise (IMO)

    It would mean that say the likes of Clan 2 and if we get a Clan 3 back, can't see it, or others from other clan's...

    I don't think using Facebook/social media group is the way either as not everyone is on Facebook or WhatsApp


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 648 ✭✭✭SeanHarty


    Can I just ask one thing...

    We are being told that we are to use communities to organise activates in the game etc...

    But there seems to be an almighty lack of extremely vocal regular players offering help, raid groups or even to run a few strikes..

    But then you see the same clicks partying together and doing different activates as a party? How are they organising this if communities is the only way to do this? Am I blind and totally missing these messages? Or more likely there are sub groups of people in PS message groups like before.... not a great way to run a community if you ask me.

    When I first joined this was a community long before "communities" came along, its sad to say that we have appeared to have lost that.


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