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Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

Mitch Connor

Hey all - we have done a tidy of the clans over the last day.

If you are in Clan 3, please move to clan 2 - https://www.bungie.net/en/Clan/Detail/658545.

Don't forget to set Clan 2 as your PS4 clan.

We are also going to let people in clan 2 migrate to Clan 1 if they want to.

We are going to kick people from Clan 3 by the end of the week, and then possibly get rid of that clan (for the time being), so if you can get yourself moved before then that would be great.

Generic has messaged all the clan 3 people on PSN and Bungie.
I believe Generic has also messaged a bunch of people in clan 2 about moving to clan 1 too.

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Generic Dreadhead

jcd5971

But that's a big part of it generic there was no platform and discussion was not even considered.

I left communities I put my hand up. I don't see myself going back either it just isnt something I will use without notifications.

You see that as odd. That's fair enough.

But this was a discussion that had to happen, get e erything out in open discuss it decide and then move on.

If people like me are left out that's unfortunate but understandable, things move on and grow, sometimes you just have to move on.

As I said I bear no Ill will (pun) go arcs anyone over this and hope ye all feel the same.

[Deleted User]

jcd5971 wrote: »

If people like me are left out that's unfortunate but understandable, things move on and grow, sometimes you just have to move on.

As I said I bear no Ill will (pun) go arcs anyone over this and hope ye all feel the same.

If any of you have left and change your mind over the community thing it's not a problem reaccepting you onto the page, just apply and we will re add you no problem, of course we have no ill will towards any of you...

jcd5971

Fieldog wrote:

If any of you have left and change your mind over the community thing it's not a problem reaccepting you onto the page, just apply and we will re add you no problem, of course we have no ill will towards any of you...

Appreciate the gesture.

I'm kind of sorry it took a bumpy ride.

But at least it was all aired out and everyone got to say their piece

Conar

Right... Screw it I'll dip my toe in.

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.
We hit a good run of it around TTK and there was often a good mix of groupings and people were very willing to help each other out.
It's human nature to be clicky but we should all try to avoid the instinct and be more inclusive.
I've tried to use the communities app a little but it just doesn't have the instant reach I want when I'm playing Destiny.

I felt a little put out by the forced closure of the chat and I don't think the Communities App is ready for such large scale use.
I get that Admins are trying to act in the best interest of the group but such sweeping changes are probably worthy of a group discussion.

We are in a board.ie clan. It's a discussion board with an option of voting.
Should we ever kick non boardsies out? ABSOLUTELY NOT
Should we say that any major decisions will be made on Boards? Yeah I think that's fair. Everyone gets to have an opinion and if they're not a member but feel they want to vote on an item or make their opinion heard then just sign up for a Boards account.

Leave the Admins to doing admin, leave the decisions to democracy.

The situation as it stands is not working (IMO) but we can't go back to messages, at least that seems to be the general concensus.

Should we just have a vote with something like the following?

1. Do you like Communities (yes/no)
2. Will you use Communities (yes/no)
3. Would you sign up for and use an app that doesn't work directly on the PS4... Probably Discord? (yes/no)

jcd5971

Conar wrote:

I felt a little put out by the forced closure of the chat and I don't think the Communities App is ready for such large scale use. I get that Admins are trying to act in the best interest of the group but such sweeping changes are probably worthy of a group discussion.

This sums up my whole argument but just more eloquently.

Also I read it and thought jaysus conovar has just pulled a complete 180 here.

The I realised you are two different people, and life went back to normal. Also this happens to me on a regular basis.

Conar

jcd5971 wrote: »

This sums up my whole argument but just more eloquently.

Also I read it and thought jaysus conovar has just pulled a complete 180 here.

The I realised you are two different people, and life went back to normal. Also this happens to me on a regular basis.

No worries, sure I waved at a JCB yesterday. Imagine how I felt when I realised it wasn't you

Mitch Connor

Conar wrote: »

Right... Screw it I'll dip my toe in.

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.
We hit a good run of it around TTK and there was often a good mix of groupings and people were very willing to help each other out.
It's human nature to be clicky but we should all try to avoid the instinct and be more inclusive.
I've tried to use the communities app a little but it just doesn't have the instant reach I want when I'm playing Destiny.

I personally think a lot of this is down to the game and content being new. People are only starting to learn it themselves and want to do that in the groups they are most used to. Maybe that is just wrong, but it is how I see things right now.

I think when the raid is more well known and people are more comfortable with it all then we will see stuff pop up and group up more often.

I honestly think it being a new game, but an older community (in terms of the time the community has been around) is a lot of what the issues are here are coming from. I know that when it comes to brand new content I am very likely to be playing it with certain people the first time around. Just looking at my raid completion and story completion groups from D1 in the D2 intro shows that. Though obviously my experience could be unique to me.

SolvableKnave

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I personally think a lot of this is down to the game and content being new. People are only starting to learn it themselves and want to do that in the groups they are most used to. Maybe that is just wrong, but it is how I see things right now.

I think when the raid is more well known and people are more comfortable with it all then we will see stuff pop up and group up more often.

I honestly think it being a new game, but an older community (in terms of the time the community has been around) is a lot of what the issues are here are coming from. I know that when it comes to brand new content I am very likely to be playing it with certain people the first time around. Just looking at my raid completion and story completion groups from D1 in the D2 intro shows that. Though obviously my experience could be unique to me.

I think there are 2 groups of 6 that fall under that description, and I personally, don't have an issue with it. It's the same heads who are ABLE to run the raid blind fresh soon as released. I get that. I'm not able to do that. Usually, by the time I get on and am hoping to get a group together, most people would have grouped up by that time. Again, I don't have an issue with that.

Of the 5 raids that are in the Destiny Universe, I generally only get to run them week 2 of release. It'll never stop me trying to get a group together though.

I'm optimistic like that.

Generic Dreadhead

Conar wrote: »

Leave the Admins to doing admin, leave the decisions to democracy.

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice: "Move to Communities OR Continue to to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?
You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?
Or even if All 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do?
Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision? Do you explain your line of reasoning?

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall. Do you say "tough, you had your chance to give feedback, you didn't" and then sift through 60 explanations about how they were on holidays for 6 weeks and had no internet.

Now, you use Chat and one person basically goes full racist and calls someone a name. You can't kick that person out.
Do you burn the chat down for the sake of the 99 others and start a fresh one, meticulously comparing 2 lists for discrepancies?
Do you ask them to leave? What if they don't?

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.
Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system.
But we are always trying to do what's fairest and overall the most adequate solution for all members

SeanHarty

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice: "Move to Communities OR Continue to to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?
You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?
Or even if All 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do?
Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision? Do you explain your line of reasoning?

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall. Do you say "tough, you had your chance to give feedback, you didn't" and then sift through 60 explanations about how they were on holidays for 6 weeks and had no internet.

Now, you use Chat and one person basically goes full racist and calls someone a name. You can't kick that person out.
Do you burn the chat down for the sake of the 99 others and start a fresh one, meticulously comparing 2 lists for discrepancies?
Do you ask them to leave? What if they don't?

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.
Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system.
But we are always trying to do what's fairest and overall the most adequate solution for all members

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Mitch Connor

SeanHarty wrote: »

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Can only have 8 in a party. Which 8 do we pick? We could use communities but people wouldn't be notified of the shouting. We could use discord voice coms but then people have to download a non native app.

SolvableKnave

SeanHarty wrote: »

I say we form a big party and all shout at each other.

Conar

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

All of this isn't a go at you Conar, and I hope you realise that.

Absolutely no offence taken so no worries there.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So 190 people need to have input in a matter.
Say an annoymous A and B choice" "Move to Communities OR Use Continue to use Chat?"

You get a 66% majority saying Option A, do you tell the 34% to deal with it?

You get 75% majority for Option B, what 100 people get into the chat?

We'll I guess that's a larger pool of people so I would think people would be more inclined to accept the decision rather than it being decided by a few.
I don't doubt the intentions of the few that made the decision I just think that we could try to make them as a group.
If anything it would absolve you guys of responsibility for people like me moaning after the fact.

I accept the fact the chat is no longer fit for purpose so I'm happy (though sad) to see the back of it.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

So you ask 190 people for feedback on something, 190 of them say "Use Chat plz"... what do we do with that information that has tangible results?

So then you make a change and 15 people kick up holy war, and the rest don't, what do you do? Does the squeaky wheel get the grease? Do you reverse your decision, do you explain your line of reasoning?

I think Admins can gauge the mood of the group and if there's enough of a push on something throw up a vote.
A vote simply means things go one way or another. No stupid comments to filter through so easy to get results.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Now, lets say you ask 190 people for feedback, and 30 people actually give feedback. You make a change based on that and months later 60 people are not happy at that overall?

We'll I guess the old mantra 'if you don't vote you can't complain' would be the case here.

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Those are just some food for thought examples, many of them based off my own actual experiences, from this side of the fence.

190 members 100% satisfied would be perfection. We'll never have a perfect system

They're fair examples too and there's no way we'll ever please everyone but if we move to a system that's flawed that we don't know will be fixed we're taking a bit of a punt.
I hate the playstation apps but I do always have my phone beside me so I'd definitely be willing to try an app that's seperate to the ps4 architecture. Whatsapp is perfect but from a privacy perspective it's understandable that people don't want they're number given out.
Maybe something like discord would work wonders.
I mean, we all had Ishtar Commander or a similar app on the go on a laptop/table/phone so why not a messaging service.

Generic Dreadhead

Look, in all honesty, that's pretty fair and valid feedback.

And I, and I'm sure the other lads, will take that on board and try and garner more feedback for major stuff (if it occurs) in future before we make any changes.

We tried to make these changes kind of gradually over the last 4 weeks (some of your probably noticed that), and I do think a lot of the messaging on "why" was probably lost on people for a variety of reasons

In hindsight, I should have done a big write up here on Boards about what was happening, why, how, where and with relevant links and spread that word via here, PSN and Bungie.net (fun fun fun).... that would probably have helped soften the blow but there would have been a blow none the less.

Perhaps with the state of the game a bit different now (end game etc), and the weekend coming up, and the Bungie Clan 1 Chat being gone, perhaps we can swallow our emotions and just try and give Communities a shot for even an activity each.

It's not laid out beautifully I concede, but maybe some of you so vehemently against it can actually give it a shot and see while it's no LFG site, it does have some functionality thats fit for purpose.
Maybe not, I'm just advocating giving it a shot, I've used it myself for the NF and a few nights for some PvP bouts. It's not Windows Vista like tbf

Stone Deaf 4evr

not being funny, but ye're never going to come to a consensus if ye try to accommodate everyone. Someones going to have to take a stand and decide whats the way forward - it should naturally fall to the current Admins, cause that's their role anyway - and i daresay they're admins because they're already active in the group.

then pick a method of communication, and let it be the way the thing works. If that means of communication doesn't suit you, then jog on and find a group more suitable to your tastes. If people have a genuine interest in something they'll make the effort / sacrifice to get involved.

Mitch Connor

Conar wrote: »

Whatsapp is perfect but from a privacy perspective it's understandable that people don't want they're number given out.
Maybe something like discord would work wonders.
I mean, we all had Ishtar Commander or a similar app on the go on a laptop/table/phone so why not a messaging service.

I actually set up a discord for us all a while back, when this communties for D2 was being discussed (amongst admin) - and championed its use as our 'messages' successor - and it was felt that trying to get people to download a new app to their phone would be worse than trying to get them to migrate to Communities.

That said - the only think it would really have over just using boards.ie is notifications.

We can set up rooms (threads) in discord for particular activities - we can do the same here.
We can chat and have a laugh - can do that here.
If you don't have discord you'd need to get it - if you don't have a boards.ie account you'd have to sign up.
Your username could/would be different to your PSN name (not the case in communities/messages/clan chat).
You can't send game invites in discord or boards.ie - you can in communities, messages or clan chat.

I really like the look of discord - but it not being plugged into the PS4 architecture (same as any app) holds it back. As I say, it doesn't offer much over notifications in comparison to just using threads on here.

Mitch Connor

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

It's not laid out beautifully I concede, but maybe some of you so vehemently against it can actually give it a shot and see while it's no LFG site, it does have some functionality thats fit for purpose.
Maybe not, I'm just advocating giving it a shot, I've used it myself for the NF and a few nights for some PvP bouts. It's not Windows Vista like tbf

You know I was vocal in my opposition to communities - but the one feature I think more people should make use of is the Event function. I find that works well for getting people in for ad hoc stuff.

Totz, for example, was trying to get people for a raid run in D1 - and until I set up an Event to just try get people in a party and geared up for it - the chat in communities wasn't getting it done. I think the use of the Event feature is absolutely key to communities being of any use.

I THINK you do get a notification of Events being created too.

Generic Dreadhead

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

SolvableKnave

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

Yeah, it's the lack of notifications on every new post is what I've gotten from everything. Now, whether that's a requirement on the PS4 or on the app, i don't know.

I'd say keep with communities, up to 2/3 weeks after OS5 is released and see how it goes. If the notification issue is resolved, then everyone can be happy. If not, then maybe it can be revisited?

Generic Dreadhead

Mitch Connor wrote: »

but the one feature I think more people should make use of is the Event function. I find that works well for getting people in for ad hoc stuff.

the chat in communities wasn't getting it done. I think the use of the Event feature is absolutely key to communities being of any use.

Yeah, I was kind of hoping that Events can kind of replace the need for creating mini-chats for stuff like Raids etc (1st weeks blind run aside)

I might start turning some of my current "posts" into events and see what kind of traction that gets

Then again, I'm probably playing a hell of a lot more pvp than most the last week, I'd say a few more will be dipping the toe in now :P
Then again, the style of play in the crucible, overall D2 changes and move to 4v4 has probably turned a good chunck of people off it.
Kind of off topic but the times when you do have a close, sweaty game and use tactics and teamshotting and scrape by with a win have been hella satisfying :P

Mitch Connor

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Like.... what I don't really understand is that (and maybe I'm reading into previous feedback from JCD, Dude and Totz on this too much) was that the biggest issue (and seemingly dealbreaker for a minor few) was not getting PSN Notifications for when someone makes a new post on Communities.

Can someone set me straight here cause I'm all for discussing the alternatives?
But they don't seem to be actual solutions to the specific problem people have mentioned

And when I say that, I mean tangible feedback, not like "there's not as much craic there".
I'm not trying to come across as a jerk here but What is the actual problem?

We've had pages of whataboutary and now we're looking at alternative "solutions" that don't solve the problem at hand?

I think it is not having notifications in game or on mobile - at least if they pinged on mobile you would know something is happening in game.

You see a notifcation you may actively check it. You don't get any notification you may miss something, 20 minutes pass and people have moved on. You know people aren't going to get a notification - you need to run something quick cause you are short on time - you go to LFG or messages?

I know that I would personally use the phone more than the console app, cause typing is a lot easier on the phone.

riggerman

Being reading this since 10 this morning and I have only 1 item to add. We are all a community on here and friends for the last 3 years. I'm personally looking forward to making new friends from all the new people who have joined.

It's a pity PS messages are limited to 100 max, but that's a problem the lads (admins) have tried to sort with the community app . Until Sony get the finger out and increase the max on messenger, we will have to plug away with what we have.

Everyone here has always been helpful with raiding, PvP and quests and going forward I don't see that changing. To the new lads out there send friend requests and don't be shy. We are a like a big family , we have our fights and squabbling moments but we are always up for giving a hand to each other.

MADMADRA32

Kimbot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I think it is not having notifications in game or on mobile - at least if they pinged on mobile you would know something is happening in game.

You see a notifcation you may actively check it. You don't get any notification you may miss something, 20 minutes pass and people have moved on. You know people aren't going to get a notification - you need to run something quick cause you are short on time - you go to LFG or messages?

I know that I would personally use the phone more than the console app, cause typing is a lot easier on the phone.

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

SolvableKnave

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

I'm on Android, and I get notifications to reply's. Nothing on new posts. I have the phone beside me when I'm playing, so I check the communities every 15 mins or so. It's not ideal, but it's not game breaking or community breaking. It's an extra step to actively refresh the feed on your phone.

Mitch Connor

jonnycivic wrote: »

Sure it's Grand, there's no issue with notifications on iPhones so anyone that hasn't got an iPhone should just go out and buy an iPhone and shut up complaining about their lack of notifications like.

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

sniper_samurai

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

I don't, stupid fking app keeps signing me out if inactive for 30mins.

Kimbot

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Do you get them for every post?

I only get notifications for replies to my own messages on either phone (android) or PS4.

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

Mitch Connor

jonnycivic wrote: »

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

Such a poorly designed app - how does it get out the door in that state?

[Deleted User]

I think that we just need to build a wall, and make the non boardsies pay for it.

Make BOIE Great Again!