Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

15-09-2017 6:20pm

I think that we just need to build a wall, and make the non boardsies pay for it.

Make BOIE Great Again!

Riesen_Meal · 15-09-2017 6:27pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

I'm on android and have never gotten notifications not even when it's a reply. And yes everything is setup correctly.

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

sniper_samurai · 15-09-2017 6:39pm

Fieldog wrote: »

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

Get notifications for messages instantly through the message app, same with friend requests and invites through the PS app.

Kimbot · 15-09-2017 8:30pm

Fieldog wrote: »

And have you notifications on on the 3 Sony apps Jonny? Messages, community, normal PS4 app?

Yeah everything else works fine, messages/events etc. The only time I have ever gotten a notification was a reply on the Friday 13th community but I only had reply notifications set for that one so can't say if the new post notification worked or not.

goon_magee · 16-09-2017 1:18am

Going to keep it short, it's late and enough has been said already, but feel like everyone paying attention should give their opinion.

Polls on here for big clan decisions going forward should be the norm I think. I understand the sentiment that not everyone gets a chance to vote if not available etc. But to be blunt...screw them... It's how we make decisions on a nationwide level, so let's not be precious and assume the same can't apply to a video game clan... You don't vote or you vote the losing side, like it or lump it. At least taking a democratic approach you give everyone a chance to voice opinions from the start rather than a select few springing sudden decisions without considering others. At the minute it seems the only people championing communities are those that were involved in the decision at the start. Granted opinions are being sought now, but that's how it should have been from the start.

On a more gameplay related note, calendar events is a great idea. Something like random raid nights could work great in a few weeks when a good few have the mechanics down. Everyone who has availability throws there name into a hat then someone (possibly one of our streamers who could draw on stream to keep it legit) draws a few random teams of 6 who all group up and raid on say a Saturday night or whenever suits the team.

Throwing calendar events will also be a good way of measuring activity and assessing is there really a need to abandon the old messaging system. Social events will make the inactive players even more obvious.

Rossi IRL · 16-09-2017 1:27am

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

goon_magee · 16-09-2017 1:57am

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

Not a bad shout Rossi. JCD suggested having both as well. there could be some sort of ground rule that all activities need to get posted first on communities, have a 10 or 15 min window for people to check and reply via communities, then turn to chat if you dont get any/enough takers via your original community post. Could be the best of both worlds, balancing the "inclusive" nature of the community page, but also having the fallback of the messages page for active members where you're post is guaranteed to be seen if needs be via working notifications.

My name is URL · 16-09-2017 3:37am

Conar wrote: »

One of my problems with the clan is often that I'm dying to get a game in but I see a load of parties formed yet they weren't initiated on the chats.
The very next day I do the same thing cos I really want to complete the raid in 2 hours rather than Sherpa every time.
It's inevitable but we should all try to be a little more inclusive as often as we can.

This is actually something that I've noticed improve because of communities.

I still have a strong dislike of it fwiw, It's essentially not functional for me. I don't get notifications and have to check it manually and that's a pain in the hole.

But there is a better mix of people on fireteams now. Usually one or two people playing with a couple of 'regulars' now.

I've raided with two sets of people now and there has been at least one person I'd not played with before in each one of those teams, at least for the earlier stages. Of course that's just my own observation and YMMV.

But 1 -2 'new' peeps raiding in the first week with older players is a step up from how things were imo. I'm glad to see that.

Now, holding on to players to raid with for consecutive nights is a different story :pac:

OptimusTractor · 16-09-2017 2:03pm

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)

And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.

Best of both worlds.

A message chat for max 30 people? Bit exclusive that. Won't be happening.

Generic Dreadhead · 16-09-2017 4:54pm

goon_magee wrote: »

Polls on here for big clan decisions going forward should be the norm I think.

Yup, will take this on board for big changes in future.

At the minute it seems the only people championing communities are those that were involved in the decision at the start. Granted opinions are being sought now, but that's how it should have been from the start.

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

Something like random raid nights could work great in a few weeks when a good few have the mechanics down. Everyone who has availability throws there name into a hat then someone (possibly one of our streamers who could draw on stream to keep it legit) draws a few random teams of 6 who all group up and raid on say a Saturday night or whenever suits the team.

Definitely something we can organise, but more than likely it will be a week or two at best down the line.

Throwing calendar events will also be a good way of measuring activity and assessing is there really a need to abandon the old messaging system. Social events will make the inactive players even more obvious.

Monitoring Clan/Community activity is not something we can do over days or weeks, we need months worth of Data, but it is something we'll look at. We'll keep an eye out for people who are basically just in the clan, collecting their engrams, but not utilising Communities to play with new or old clanmates etc.

Rossi IRL wrote: »

Could we leave communities as is for the whole clan and hope they make it better. (Only notifications on replies is stupid)
And make a chat as well for people who are actually on boards.
Best of both worlds.

We tried something similar to this before.
We had 100+ people, so 100 of the most 'old school" players ended up in the Main chat.
The 30 newbies ended up in chat 2 with 40 of the most active/hardcore players.
The result, the 2nd Chat was dead, the 40 most active players continued grouping up with the existing 60 players in the other chat.
All in all, it was a terrible split and exactly why we went with Communities.
When given 2 options, most will chose the path of least resistance.
What you're proposing there would basically be throwing 50 people into an elitism chat and actually in a round about way, it will make Communities even more dead
See my above point to Goon. We had 2 systems, people chose the 'path of least resistance'

General Non-Rossi directed points below:

It's been 9 pages now of this whataboutery and tbh, I still haven't heard a single, tangible bit of feedback on Communities other than "I don't get Notifications for new posts".
If that is truly the stickler some players want to plant their flag in the sand over we can't change that.
Remember that is a PSN Bug/Error that is now resulting in people giving us, personally, negative feedback. Why not send your feedback to Playstation?
If the people with the biggest issues with Communities don't want to post on it out of protest, or in an effort to 'hamstring' it's activity to prove their 'point' well thats a decision I, nor anyone else, has any control over and no words will probably change.

There was ~80 posts on the Community page yesterday (midnight to midnight).
So many players are giving it an shot, finding groups and mingling about.
As Totz pointed out above the cross-pollination is good so far.
With Wonda-Boy (fair play to him) having a really positive come-one-come-all approach and organising a raid open to anyone there and basically 5 newbies (+ Beard) actually organising a raid too.
It's not a pretty UI or App but people are using it, and they are doing so in a way which aligns with the type of values we've always tried to embody as a Clan.

Some parties are having a hard time adapting to the change to Communities, but you cannot expect the solution for you to be that 180 others set up accounts for various other sites or apps, and use those instead, despite them having no PSN tie-in.

So while we're all still open to feedback maybe focus on proposed solutions that fill the below requirements:
1) Allows all member for all clans to interact with each other in 1 place
2) Is tied into PSN so allows people to not have a Computer nearby and get (some, not all) notifications on their PS4

Again, seems like a PSN Bug/Issue has basically caused a silly amount of negative feelings here over the last 36 hours.
Tbh, I'm pushing on 32yo now, I'm going to try enjoy the video game, play with some new people (1st time playing with Jimbob last night for example :pac:), some old people and just refresh the Communties App on my mobile to see all posts.
Which while not ideal, is something that lets me interact with all 190 people in one place.

Conar · 16-09-2017 6:32pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Yup, will take this on board for big changes in future.

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

I'm away this weekend but there seems to be a marked increase in traffic on it which is great.

I think we all need to just remember that everyone here wants the same thing and a little squabble about how to get there is a healthy thing.
I'm going to try and use it a bit more and sure as hell won't be cutting off my nose to spite my face.

jcd5971 · 17-09-2017 2:59pm

Look there was no conversation about this at all.

That was an issue. Which going forward has been fixed which is a great result for everyone.

My only gripe is the way myself civic and whoever the other 4 of this group of 6 dissenters generic referred to, are being painted as a group of malcontents out to cause trouble.

The only person to say they are flat out not using communities without notifications is myself, and even at that I'm still posting on boards, and I even said on here I'm not demanding any changes be made, I'm prepared to have my opinions challenged.

Could have done without being labeled as attacking admins, or not appreciating previous efforts made etc. Wasn't nice at all.

And I think everyone needs to take a step back, it has to be said johnny came on a bit strong , but they way he was treated was flat out disgraceful.

nobody is throwing their toys out of the pram threatening to leave the clan or cause trouble at all.

Hopefully communities gets its **** together and we move on.

I for clarity sake though would like to say again, this was not a personal stand against anyone.

But if they did feel belittled or unappreciated, that was not my intention.

My name is URL · 20-09-2017 1:43pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

And the flip side of that there's only been about 6 very vocal detractors here railing against Communities. 6 who actually haven't posted in Communities, either out of protest or because they were using the Clan 1 Bungie Chat. The vocal majority here have not been cross-posting in Communities. They stayed in their silo, completely ignoring half the player base, not interacting with any of the 40 newbies who joined Clan 2.

I've been posting in the community. Tried for the last 2 nights to organise a raid.

After giving up on trying to get a fresh run going, I posted last night that I was looking for a spot in one that was already underway.

Noticed your team was raiding and at some point yous invited a guy that hasn't been active or played with the clan in over a year in to replace someone.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

Tazzimus · 20-09-2017 2:09pm

I've been reading this and not really saying anything as I'm new enough to the clan so didn't really know the history etc.

I do have to chip in on the above from Totz though, and this is not an attack on you Generic, just want to make that clear.
For someone who is championing the community app for organising everything, you stick to your own "silo'd" group to raid with etc.

Community app is fairly poo I'll admit, but thankfully people are trying to use it, maybe it'll get better as the game settles a bit.

I tend to use boards to look for raids, usually have. I'll try use communities for other activities though.

Mitch Connor · 20-09-2017 2:22pm

Tazzimus wrote: »

I've been reading this and not really saying anything as I'm new enough to the clan so didn't really know the history etc.

I do have to chip in on the above from Totz though, and this is not an attack on you Generic, just want to make that clear.
For someone who is championing the community app for organising everything, you stick to your own "silo'd" group to raid with etc.

Community app is fairly poo I'll admit, but thankfully people are trying to use it, maybe it'll get better as the game settles a bit.

I tend to use boards to look for raids, usually have. I'll try use communities for other activities though.

Personally (and it may be bias as I'm in said group) I've no issue with people sorting out groups outside of the app. Just the same happened when we used messages. It isn't a case of communities or nothing. It's a case of if people are short and are looking for someone to jump in, use communities (imo). If you want to run some strikes or a nf or pvp or something and have spots then fire ahead and use communities to offer up.

If you have a group of friends who you want to prioritize first I don't see any issue there, for anyone.

SeanHarty · 20-09-2017 2:26pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Personally (and it may be bias as I'm in said group) I've no issue with people sorting out groups outside of the app. Just the same happened when we used messages. It isn't a case of communities or nothing. It's a case of if people are short and are looking for someone to jump in, use communities (imo). If you want to run some strikes or a nf or pvp or something and have spots then fire ahead and use communities to offer up.

If you have a group of friends who you want to prioritize first I don't see any issue there, for anyone.

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

Mitch Connor · 20-09-2017 2:34pm

SeanHarty wrote: »

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

But that isn't what we are saying.

We are saying use communities over messages or clan chat if you are looking for extras for something.

Why would we be demanding people, anyone, organise everything within communities and open their fireteam to anyone and everyone for everything?

I use communities for nightfall, strikes and pvp. I joined a raid at the weekend when they were looking for numbers.

I will likely look to use it more for raiding when I have completed it even once.

We've oy said communities over messages or clan chat because the later two 100% exclude people on the community, when you are offering a free space for something up. If you want to specifically invite someone, or use threads here great, you do you. The admin of the clan simply don't want to create or moderate exclusionary chat functions.

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

Generic Dreadhead · 20-09-2017 2:43pm

I hate having to deal with this petty stuff every single Raid launch, but sure, here we go again...

My name is URL wrote: »

I've been posting in the community. Tried for the last 2 nights to organise a raid.

After giving up on trying to get a fresh run going, I posted last night that I was looking for a spot in one that was already underway.

Noticed your team was raiding and at some point yous invited a guy that hasn't been active or played with the clan in over a year in to replace someone.

You can only really be referring to one of 2 people here.

TerryChev left, he'd been raiding with us (blind) for 5 separate evenings since Wednesday 13th September.
http://destinytracker.com/d2/profile/psn/GenericDreadhead
Feel free to look over my Raid game history for the last 7 days and see that is the case.
He's been on my "Blind" Raid teams in the past.

We were on the Boss, we wanted to kill him, so we wanted someone with experience.
The only person online, not in an activity with other clan members or friends, who had Raid experience was Hochspitch - he had killed the Raid boss (as evidenced by his emblem)
He is ALSO someone who has been in my "Blind" raid teams too (him and Terry both featuring in KF or WotM at launch)
Feel free to go have a look at my D1 Raid 1st Attempts via DestinyTracker if thats what you want.

We weren't interested in talking/explaining through it as we'd been on it two nights, and we had the strategy clear, just needed to execute on it.
As with any Raid, I want to actually complete it myself before I branch out.
If there was a whole bunch of people online that I missed who could come in (at 23:10pm btw) and join at the final boss and jump right in basically just being told:
"Ad's on the right 1st, You're team teleport, grab the left spark, we're taking Dogs plate 1st"
... and do the business, I'd apologise. There wasn't.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

I've been Raiding with a combination of my real-life friends and people who I have done blind raids with at launch before.
And that group has been fairly static the last 7 days.
When I haven't been trying to finish the Raid myself, I've either been in PvP.
And when I wasn't, I sherpa'd 3 lads (McMafia, Madra and Werehampster) through the Baths by posting in the Community page.
Conovar, Nev, NoCal, Wes, Madra, Mafia and Linksenn can attest to this being the case (if you don't feel like reviewing my game history) fwiw.

You seem to have been focused on watching what my group was doing.
Perhaps you could have just asked me if there was a spot going?
To which I would have replied "Yeah, we're on the boss now, if you know what to do, jump in". Simples.
Don't know why you're trying to "put me on blast" here frankly.

Kimbot · 20-09-2017 2:45pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

But that isn't what we are saying.

We are saying use communities over messages or clan chat if you are looking for extras for something.

Why would we be demanding people, anyone, organise everything within communities and open their fireteam to anyone and everyone for everything?

I use communities for nightfall, strikes and pvp. I joined a raid at the weekend when they were looking for numbers.

I will likely look to use it more for raiding when I have completed it even once.

We've oy said communities over messages or clan chat because the later two 100% exclude people on the community, when you are offering a free space for something up. If you want to specifically invite someone, or use threads here great, you do you. The admin of the clan simply don't want to create or moderate exclusionary chat functions.

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

When it came to raids there was always full clarity, it was either posted in the chat messages and first 5 to reply were in. If it wasnt done in the chat it was done here on boards exactly the same way, first 5 were in. I have already seen people throw up messages to start raid groups and be completely ignored (Well ignored might not be the best choice of words on this) and people then arrange raids after their posts which gives the impression they are ignored.

SolvableKnave · 20-09-2017 2:45pm

Mitch Connor wrote: »

In D1 stuff was organized outside of messages (the chosen clan communication tool) all the time. Why are people expecting it be so different now?

Generic Dreadhead · 20-09-2017 2:59pm

SeanHarty wrote: »

I don't think people really give a ****e when people do what you guys do and team up.

its when people are doing that but at the same time coming on here and going on about why communities is great and that it should be used to organise raids/strikes/ etc.

practice what you preach.

Yeah Sean, except I actually did.

ˆ This Raid went ahead and we did the Baths (on my Alt)

Maybe you're of the assumption I'm blitzing the raid on my 6th run now.
I spent Wed, Thur, Sun and Mon actually doing it on my main character (Blind) and yesterday we just got back to the boss again, having not killed him before the reset.
I haven't finished the Raid once. I don't even have a 3rd character now.

Mitch Connor · 20-09-2017 2:59pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

When it came to raids there was always full clarity, it was either posted in the chat messages and first 5 to reply were in. If it wasnt done in the chat it was done here on boards exactly the same way, first 5 were in. I have already seen people throw up messages to start raid groups and be completely ignored (Well ignored might not be the best choice of words on this) and people then arrange raids after their posts which gives the impression they are ignored.

No it feckin wasn't. That just is not true.

In D1 I 100% remember there being basically set raid groups for weeks after release of each one. I got bounced out of one when I missed one night and my spot was taken by someone else - had to go find a new group to raid with.

If I want to raid, and the group of players I usually play with are on and want to raid too, why wouldn't we just raid together? Thats how it was in D1 for most content drops. It changed over time and I am positive it will change in D2 too.

Of course there were occasions when someone would START a raid chat/group and the first 5 would be in, be it in either messages or here (and that has happened already in D2 with Sniper and others) but you are 100% lying if you are trying to say all raid groups were started in either messages or here and a free for all for the 5 remaining spots.

Messages (the specific clan chat), or here, weren't used to 100% create 100% of raid groups. They would be used to supplement numbers when needed quite often - just as I feel communities should be. And calling it a failure or unfit for purpose in the 7th day of a raid, in the new game, when the only two differences to messages are (1) half the clan aren't excluded and (2) notifications are broken is something I just don't understand.

I would also point out Generic was one of the most active and helpful members of the clan in Destiny 1, always happy to sherpa and explain. To have a b1tch about his grouping in the first couple of weeks, when you have 3 years of experience with how he helps, is a little sh1t (i know you, jonny, didn't call generic out - this is a general point to this specific conversation thread). Maybe when he has actually managed to get through the raid to completion once (or even one decent damage on the boss) he will be more open to creating new raid groups - and helping all the noobies.

Just yesterday Generic ran a Nightfall. Made his FT public, posted on communities and ran with the first two people that jumped in. Exactly as I would expect communities to be used.

No one has said all grouping should be done 100% in communities or prioritise communities. The argument has been that if you were going to post to clan chat about free spaces in something, or you would have in PSN messages back in D1, do that in communities.

Generic Dreadhead · 20-09-2017 3:02pm

Love how this thread is now an actual public sh!t slinging match where people (I counted as good mates) are singling me out to tell me if I shouldn't be playing the game with my friends. Bonkers

SeanHarty · 20-09-2017 3:09pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Love how this thread is now an actual public sh!t slinging match where people (I counted as good mates) are singling me out to tell me if I shouldn't be playing the game with my friends. Bonkers

ah come on now will ya, were all grown ups here I would still happily play the game with everyone involved in this no matter what side they hold.

But at the same time were all old enough to take criticism and say what we think without throwing toys out of the pram.

My name is URL · 20-09-2017 3:11pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

You seem to have been focused on watching what my group was doing.
Perhaps you could have just asked me if there was a spot going?
To which I would have replied "Yeah, we're on the boss now, if you know what to do, jump in". Simples.
Don't know why you're trying to "put me on blast" here frankly.

I posted that I was looking for a spot in the community, which is the avenue we've been asked to use when looking for spots.

I wasn't focused on watching what your group was doing. I noticed that yours was one of 2 groups raiding at the time I was looking for a raid spot.

And I'm not putting you on blast, your post happened to mention how people weren't giving the community a chance whist at the same time being critical of it. And having their own silo'd groups.

It's easy to extol the virtues of community when you have a consistent, externally pre-formed group to play with, and can pick and choose who to invite in as 'subs' regardless of whether they are using the app to look for spots.

That was a general point about communities and how people are touting them as being the 'new way' to find groups, and not necessarily directed at just you. Sorry if what I have said felt more personal than I intended it to

Generic Dreadhead · 20-09-2017 3:19pm

Where possible, I'm trying to finish the Raid with the same people I started the Raid with (much like I have in the past).
I don't see what the problem with that is.
I've been at this Raid for hours and hours over 5 evenings with seemingly everything and anything comprising against us to ensure we cannot do it a timely fashion.
And where I haven't been doing the Raid on my Warlock, I've been using Communities if I'm doing anything that last more than 15mins
My post history and my DestinyTracker account both attest to this, so my conscious is clear on that front (can't believe I'm using those words in regards to a bloody LFG tool)

Kimbot · 20-09-2017 3:32pm

Generic Dreadhead wrote: »

Love how this thread is now an actual public sh!t slinging match where people (I counted as good mates) are singling me out to tell me if I shouldn't be playing the game with my friends. Bonkers

I havent posted here to sling crap about you or anyone else however your the very person that pointed out I & others never posted in communites when in fact I had and I am pretty sure my posts are still on the community somewhere, I cant say everyone else had but I know 110% that I did when I first joined the community.

I have no issue with any person in the group and if I do I would straight out say it to their face and JCD will attest to that when I had words with him last week over an issue I had with him.

Nobody has actually said you shouldnt game with your mates in fairness, and I would consider alot of the clan as mates, we have spent the guts of 2/3 years gaming every day across various games together not just Destiny.

There is an issue with using communities and alot of people will agree with that, all everyone wants is a solution to an issue that has come up thats all. Its good to discuss things as a group like.

My name is URL · 20-09-2017 3:39pm

Anyway, the basic point I was making is that communities are not good for finding a) consistent groups to play with, and b) one off spots in raids... and I'm not saying that as someone who has not bothered to use the app.

I don't remember any time during D1 (two weeks into a raid launch) where there has only being 1 consistent group raiding over consecutive nights.

Mitch Connor · 20-09-2017 3:39pm

jonnycivic wrote: »

There is an issue with using communities and alot of people will agree with that, all everyone wants is a solution to an issue that has come up thats all. Its good to discuss things as a group like.

Beyond notifications - what are the issues that any other platform will solve, in your opinion?

Or, is notifications the only issue?

jcd5971 · 20-09-2017 3:46pm

Can we all take a step back here.

This is getting way too personal.

When this settled I still want to raid/PvP with Johnny generic conovar totz optimus dude neve.

On the raid thing I would have been in generics raid group week 1 would got delayed, if I had made it I would have been furious to see 3 nights later at boss I got replacrd . so to call him out on that is unfair.

Generic and civic ran the most Sherpa groups last year by far.

I even remember in Sherpa fest event we ran Johnny getting 5 newbies and myself and generic got 4 newbies while others cherry picked groups, so messages had issues too.

Point is I think communities are ****, I don't think the people running communities are ****.

Cool the jets lads.

Playstation Clan clean up/migrations/management

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