All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

Utopia Parkway · 13-08-2017 11:42PM

Robson99 wrote: »

I think Eddie Brennan was honest in his assessment and called it as practically everyone outside of Waterford seen it. Deliberate hand through the guard and pulled the helmet off. Stupid. Fair **** to Eddie Brennan for calling it as he seen it. What did people want ??? Bull**** talk that it would be a poorer final without him??

Eddie was right to be fair to him. Daly and Cummins talked around the incident without really saying anything for fear of upsetting anyone.

Powerhouse · 13-08-2017 11:42PM

Robson99 wrote: »

I think Eddie Brennan was honest in his assessment.

I never understand this - how do you know he was "honest"? How do you know what he really thinks? Surely what you really mean is he agrees with you?

mountgomery burns · 13-08-2017 11:45PM

Do people thing what Austin Gleeson did was dangerous? Which was more dangerous, Cahalanes high tackle on Conor Gleeson or the helmet pull?

Powerhouse · 13-08-2017 11:45PM

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I noticed that alright. I wonder was he was saying because it was 100% the Waterford player who started that. Horgan retaliated but got punished. I dont see why Shanahan was walking after them. Maybe he was genuinely trying to offer condolences or something. It looked strange.

Horgan retaliated? Did he? I didn't see him do anything. I think it was Seamus Harnedy who put the Waterford player to the ground and he escaped without sanction. Couldn't see what Horgan did.

munsterlegend · 13-08-2017 11:46PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that a group of players together for several years with all the ebbs and flows involved in that will be motivated by inning it for a man who finished with Galway before a good few of them were born? I'm sure in the aftermath if they win he will be mentioned but I would think that sources of motivation need to be more direct to the individuals concerned. It's a nice sentiment, especially on the day that's in it, but it's just a cliché.[/quote

I take your point but sport psychology is strange and even a small % motivating factor can make a difference. Look at Tyrone before. Of course the pressure could burden them but I'd be surprised if they let this chance slip by.

mountgomery burns · 13-08-2017 11:47PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Horgan retaliated? Did he? I didn't see him do anything. I think it was Seamus Harnedy who put the Waterford player to the ground and he escaped without sanction. Couldn't see what Horgan did.

Horgan hit him in the back first but not much in it, so he started it but didn't think he merited a red card. The swing itself was stupid, but soft and to be honest Horgan made a meal of it. Don't think there would be any hope of appealing it to be honest so doubt it will be pursued.

TCDStudent1 · 13-08-2017 11:48PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Horgan retaliated? Did he? I didn't see him do anything. I think it was Seamus Harnedy who put the Waterford player to the ground and he escaped without sanction. Couldn't see what Horgan did.

Maybe. I havent watched it back. Just assumed the ref got the right guy. Somebody retaliated anyway.

OldMrBrennan83 · 13-08-2017 11:48PM

This post has been deleted.

munsterlegend · 13-08-2017 11:48PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Do people thing what Austin Gleeson did was dangerous? Which was more dangerous, Cahalanes high tackle on Conor Gleeson or the helmet pull?

So rather than deal with the actual gleeson incident let's deflect by comparing it to another incident? No one is arguing that Cahalane should not have walked.

Helmet interference can potentially be very dangerous.

Powerhouse · 13-08-2017 11:49PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Do people thing what Austin Gleeson did was dangerous? Which was more dangerous, Cahalanes high tackle on Conor Gleeson or the helmet pull?

Cahalane's high tackle was more dangerous. But it's not about assessing relative danger. Interfering with a helmet deliberately is a red card offence irrespective of other incidents in the game.

JeffKenna · 13-08-2017 11:50PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

TCDStudent1 wrote: »

I noticed that alright. I wonder was he was saying because it was 100% the Waterford player who started that. Horgan retaliated but got punished. I dont see why Shanahan was walking after them. Maybe he was genuinely trying to offer condolences or something. It looked strange.

Horgan retaliated? Did he? I didn't see him do anything. I think it was Seamus Harnedy who put the Waterford player to the ground and he escaped without sanction. Couldn't see what Horgan did.

Kingston was the third man in.

With regard to Horgan he really went down easily.

mickmackmcgoo · 13-08-2017 11:51PM

Seen a qoute from John fogarty earlier where he said that Adrian Touhy had no case to answer because Barry Kelly said he had dealt with it at the time. If James Owens says the same then logically Aussie will be free to play the final

munsterlegend · 13-08-2017 11:52PM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Should players be sanctioned only when it is deemed to have a direct bearing on the result? Conor Gleeson and Horgan were sent off when the game was already decided.

the point being made was that the reason people aren't talking about this incident is that the game was already over.

munsterlegend · 13-08-2017 11:56PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

Kingston was the third man in.

With regard to Horgan he really went down easily.

well applying the Waterford logic to this incident how do you know how hard Horgan was hit?was he hit as hard as gleeson for the first Cahalane yellow? Which was more dangerous? Gleeson made a meal out of Cahalanes flick lying on the ground and nothing wrong with him.

14-08-2017 12:00AM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Do people thing what Austin Gleeson did was dangerous? Which was more dangerous, Cahalanes high tackle on Conor Gleeson or the helmet pull?

Do you remember Declan Fanning had his ear torn years ago after an altercation with Stephen Banville? This is the risk of interfering with a helmet. Its in the rules and sadly for Gleeson and the hurling world who want to see this talented young man play on the big stage, he may have made a costly decision today. His teammate Conor Gleeson will kick himself for ever more for his moment of madness. Game won, be the bigger man and walk away. You dont have to have the biggest when you are six points up against Cork in the last few minutes. The Tuohy argument will be touted by the Waterford officials. In honesty he is a very very lucky boy, but i feel Aussie made it far too obvious and the replays were very very conclusive.

Must give credit to Waterford on a fine win and performance today. From the off they set their stall out and attacked with fervour. Shane Bennett who has been outstanding this year played a peach of a pass for Bricks goal, speak of whom, the two elder statesman of that Waterford team were magnificent today. Brilliant leadership. Jamie Barron is in line for HOTY if he keeps up these virtuoso performances

I think Galway present a more physical challenge then Cork and it is unfortunate that just as Tadhg is back that Derek may have to plan without his star player and also Conor Gleeson who forms a brilliant partnership with his fellow Fourmilewater man in the middle. Waterford have a record against Galway but i think that Galway have been most consistent this year and will take the trophy and what a fitting tribute to Tony Keady and his family that would be. You never know though...

washman3 · 14-08-2017 12:08AM

Robson99 wrote: »

I think Eddie Brennan was honest in his assessment and called it as practically everyone outside of Waterford seen it. Deliberate hand through the guard and pulled the helmet off. Stupid. Fair **** to Eddie Brennan for calling it as he seen it. What did people want ??? Bull**** talk that it would be a poorer final without him??

Yes, he was honest. It was a deliberate act.
My question is, would 'honest Eddie' be as honest if it was a Kilkenny player that did it.??
He completely rubbished the Cody/linesman incident, nipping it in the bud before it became national news.
Some (many) pundits now becoming to be proper p####s and very hard to listen to.

Joe_ Public · 14-08-2017 12:25AM

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Seen a qoute from John fogarty earlier where he said that Adrian Touhy had no case to answer because Barry Kelly said he had dealt with it at the time. If James Owens says the same then logically Aussie will be free to play the final

Does john fogarty have a source for that? The reports that came out last week said it was taken no further because the CCCC could not establish "deliberate intent" which implies that the committee did take a look at it.

In what sense did Kelly or Owens deal with the issues? Did they actually see them closely enough to "deal" with them? That's why the retroactive video evidence is there in the first place.

mickmackmcgoo · 14-08-2017 12:32AM

Joe_ Public wrote:

Does john fogarty have a source for that? The reports that came out last week said it was taken no further because the CCCC could not establish "deliberate intent" which implies that the committee did take a look at it.

No he didn't, it was a Twitter qoute I seen from him answering someone earlier tonight. He is usually clued in though . I'm a Waterford man and I don't think touhy intended it all and the right decision was made. As for Aussie today, well the ball was gone out for a side line so he had nothing to gain by pulling a helmet albeit it looked bad on the replay but he could argue he was looking the other way and put his hand back to support himself getting up off the ground but as I said it looks iffy in slow motion. Obviously I'm gonna say it was accidental and hoping to see him in the final

14-08-2017 12:34AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that a group of players together for several years with all the ebbs and flows involved in that will be motivated by inning it for a man who finished with Galway before a good few of them were born? I'm sure in the aftermath if they win he will be mentioned but I would think that sources of motivation need to be more direct to the individuals concerned. It's a nice sentiment, especially on the day that's in it, but it's just a cliche

Are you serious? Tony Keady is considered a legend in Galway and rightly so. he is part of the last Galway winning All ireland team who done a back to back in 87 and 88. Id imagine there is added motivation for Galway to win the All ireland. The children in the school where he worked as caretaker were in tears duing the funeral today.

We have players from that same era that are still revered today every bit as much, such as Pat Fox, Nicky English, John Leahy, Bobby Ryan, etc. When the Boy Wonder Jimmy Doyle passed away last year, he received a guard of honour from Cork youngsters as the hearse was en route to the crematorium in Ringaskiddy.

Hurling as in life, stands on the shoulders of giants. Legends are legends forever.

Joe_ Public · 14-08-2017 12:41AM

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

No he didn't, it was a Twitter qoute I seen from him answering someone earlier tonight. He is usually clued in though . I'm a Waterford man and I don't think touhy intended it all and the right decision was made. As for Aussie today, well the ball was gone out for a side line so he had nothing to gain by pulling a helmet albeit it looked bad on the replay but he could argue he was looking the other way and put his hand back to support himself getting up off the ground but as I said it looks iffy in slow motion. Obviously I'm gonna say it was accidental and hoping to see him in the final

I'm not saying he's wrong btw, that same question - of the referee's handling - cropped up during the Diarmuid Connolly incident earlier in the summer as well, but have never seen any documentary evidence for it either way. Is is the job of the CCCC or the referee himself to decide if an incident has been dealt with during a match? That could be a tough one to entangle i reckon.

As a hurling fan, I understand the quandary you're in and sympathise. Seems a 50-50 call to me whether he makes it, wouldn't surprise me if it was just let go and nothing happens but a bit of hot air in the papers and on the interweb.

I said · 14-08-2017 12:49AM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I'm not saying he's wrong btw, that same question - of the referee's handling - cropped up during the Diarmuid Connolly incident earlier in the summer as well, but have never seen any documentary evidence for it either way. Is is the job of the CCCC or the referee himself to decide if an incident has been dealt with during a match? That could be a tough one to entangle i reckon.

As a hurling fan, I understand the quandary you're in and sympathise. Seems a 50-50 call to me whether he makes it, wouldn't surprise me if it was just let go and nothing happens but a bit of hot air in the papers and on the interweb.

The ccc looked at the touhy incident without anything in refs report more all the complaining to the SG by Waterford supporters it was highlighted.
Gleason is now in the same boat as touhy but it looks way worse the ccc will look at this and my personal opinion is they will take a dim view of it.
It is a clear grab more conclusive than touhys so a lot of sweating in Waterford for the next few days.

mickmackmcgoo · 14-08-2017 12:50AM

Joe_ Public wrote:

As a hurling fan, I understand the quandary you're in and sympathise. Seems a 50-50 call to me whether he makes it, wouldn't surprise me if it was just let go and nothing happens but a bit of hot air in the papers and on the interweb.

Yeah that is the quandry for us , we failed in the de burca appeal and I wouldn't see a different result if Aussie was done for it . The media will have a bearing no doubt and hopefully it plays out in our favour. He is a big game player for us and although he drifts in and out of games he turned the tide for us today after the sending off .
He is a bit of an enigma and gets lots of good and bad press. Tipp fans were apoplectic last year when he got hurler of the year but they forgot that when 2 of theirs were nominated the vote would be split and he was going to get it . Personally think he would be a top centre back if we played a traditional 6 man defence

Powerhouse · 14-08-2017 12:50AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Powerhouse wrote: »

Do you seriously believe that a group of players together for several years with all the ebbs and flows involved in that will be motivated by inning it for a man who finished with Galway before a good few of them were born? I'm sure in the aftermath if they win he will be mentioned but I would think that sources of motivation need to be more direct to the individuals concerned. It's a nice sentiment, especially on the day that's in it, but it's just a clich/QUOTE]

Are you serious? Tony Keady is considered a legend in Galway and rightly so. he is part of the last Galway winning All ireland team who done a back to back in 87 and 88. Id imagine there is added motivation for Galway to win the All ireland. The children in the school where he worked as caretaker were in tears duing the funeral today.

We have players from that same era that are still revered today every bit as much, such as Pat Fox, Nicky English, John Leahy, Bobby Ryan, etc. When the Boy Wonder Jimmy Doyle passed away last year, he received a guard of honour from Cork youngsters as the hearse was en route to the crematorium in Ringaskiddy.

Hurling as in life, stands on the shoulders of giants. Legends are legends forever.

I am serious but your reply seems to be some kind of stream of consciousness about old players (which I suppose has its place) but it does not remotely deal with the matter I raised.

Joe_ Public · 14-08-2017 12:59AM

mickmackmcgoo wrote: »

Yeah that is the quandry for us , we failed in the de burca appeal and I wouldn't see a different result if Aussie was done for it . The media will have a bearing no doubt and hopefully it plays out in our favour. He is a big game player for us and although he drifts in and out of games he turned the tide for us today after the sending off .
He is a bit of an enigma and gets lots of good and bad press. Tipp fans were apoplectic last year when he got hurler of the year but they forgot that when 2 of theirs were nominated the vote would be split and he was going to get it . Personally think he would be a top centre back if we played a traditional 6 man defence

He's a force of nature. Last 20 minutes were phenomenal, being honest I think he is a bit of a magnet for getting involved in silly scrapes, thats his weakness and, at 22 is it?, he has time to work that out of his system.

Many Tipp fans were apoplectic, I wasnt one of them. He was simply extraordinary at times last year, ok one game or maybe two passed him by, but at times, nobody could live with him. There were arguments as to why either of the Tipp lads should have got it, but overall no major complaints from me anyway.

mountgomery burns · 14-08-2017 01:01AM

munsterlegend wrote: »

So rather than deal with the actual gleeson incident let's deflect by comparing it to another incident? No one is arguing that Cahalane should not have walked.

Helmet interference can potentially be very dangerous.

Not sure what you mean by deal with it, I asked if people thought it was dangerous. That is directly addressing it.

Do you think Cahalane deserved a straight red? I think it was far more dangerous, but given the option the ref copped out at a double yellow so if Cork won he'd be available for the final.

The same with Horgans tackle in the Munster final. And not trying to have a cut at Cork so much here, but I think its ludicrous that a refs actions can be deemed final and 100% on the money if they issue a card.

The focus is and has been exclusively on helmet pull for the summer, neck high tackles are far more dangerous to me and as prevalent. I think Aussie looked worse than De Burcas, but I really don't see how Tuohys was less deliberate. If it had been left off, which on another day it might have an Tuohys happens in between, theres no way he would be suspended.

Personally, I do feel it would be very harsh on the team as a whole to see a third player suspended for this offense this year. But I am from Waterford so I'll accept I'm not going to be neutral on it either.

14-08-2017 01:08AM

Powerhouse wrote: »

I am serious but your reply seems to be some kind of stream of consciousness about old players (which I suppose has its place) but it does not remotely deal with the matter I raised.

Ah ok, you mean in terms of the flow of the game? Ye fair point. Firstly, Galway would be my favourites to win the final, but a tragic event such as this will certainly give a bit more determination to their cause in the preparation and buildup.

I said · 14-08-2017 01:09AM

I always felt that if touhy got no sanction then de burca appeal would result in him getting to play in semifinal today.Twisted logic but it is the GAA appeals process we are trying to understand.
As I ve said in previous post Gleason has a case to answer.

castletownman · 14-08-2017 01:52AM

GAA. The only sporting organisation when lads committing a neck-high challenge (and the first yellow card was a raw swipe too) is considered less than a grab of a helmet in a bit of a coming together. Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

GAA. The one sporting organisation that would ignore the circumstances and ban one of it's superstars from the biggest match of all-time. Idiots. Reflects well

Duffy the Vampire Slayer · 14-08-2017 01:55AM

So long as there are Cork fans ignorant or bigoted enough to bring confederate flags to games, I hope they get hammered out the door in every game they play.

Realt Dearg Sec · 14-08-2017 01:57AM

castletownman wrote: »

GAA. The only sporting organisation when lads committing a neck-high challenge (and the first yellow card was a raw swipe too) is considered less than a grab of a helmet in a bit of a coming together. Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

GAA. The one sporting organisation that would ignore the circumstances and ban one of it's superstars from the biggest match of all-time. Idiots. Reflects well

So if a player is a "superstar" and the game is a big enough event, the rules should be suspended and he can behave as he likes? Great idea. I actually can't think of any sport where that level of stupidity would be allowed to prevail.

All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

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