All Ireland SHC Final (formerly SHC thread) - READ MOD NOTE POST #1

castletownman

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So if a player is a "superstar" and the game is a big enough event, the rules should be suspended and he can behave as he likes? Great idea. I actually can't think of any sport where that level of stupidity would be allowed to prevail.

That law (and retrospective analysis from the Sunday Game) has set a precident where there is no ambiguity. Surely officialdom can see that there are different tiers of 'helmet pulling'. Pulling the helmet off a lad in full flight should be an automatic red. Pulling the helmet in a 'schmozzle' should be left to the interpretation of the ref. Should he see nothing untoward, decision is final. If anything, any further obtrusion undermines the position of the ref.

And yes he is a superstar that is subjected to more hassle than he gives and the All Ireland would be a lesser spectacle without him. GAA authorites should bear that in mind when they are trying to showcase it to the globe

Realt Dearg Sec

Arguing the merits of the actual decision is one thing, arguing that he should be subjected to different rules because he's a big star is absolutely bananas for reasons that shouldn't need to be explained to anyone.

redlead

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Arguing the merits of the actual decision is one thing, arguing that he should be subjected to different rules because he's a big star is absolutely bananas for reasons that shouldn't need to be explained to anyone.

It's actually quite silly to think that being a big player doesn't have an impact on the decision. A mountain is going to be made out of a molehill over this because it is Gleeson. If Joe Canning did what Tuohy did the same would happen. Would Henry Sheflins red card have been rescinded if he was not King Henry? No chance.

Obviously it's wrong that this happens which I think is your point but it clearly does happen. Someone on the Waterford thread just posted the actual rule and it is "deliberate and dangerous". What Austin did was deliberate but was not dangerous. There's a big difference between pulling it off in flight and basically taking it off him when he's sitting down. Surely common sense should prevail here but it will be a nervous wait.

Road-Hog

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

So long as there are Cork fans ignorant or bigoted enough to bring confederate flags to games, I hope they get hammered out the door in every game they play.

I concur. What that flag represents is almost as offensive as a swastika but the 'cork fans are great craic' and harmless really no intent there at all to offend anyone......nit picking perhaps but so long as there is res and white on it is all that matters

munsterlegend

mountgomery burns wrote: »

Not sure what you mean by deal with it, I asked if people thought it was dangerous. That is directly addressing it.

Do you think Cahalane deserved a straight red? I think it was far more dangerous, but given the option the ref copped out at a double yellow so if Cork won he'd be available for the final.

The same with Horgans tackle in the Munster final. And not trying to have a cut at Cork so much here, but I think its ludicrous that a refs actions can be deemed final and 100% on the money if they issue a card.

The focus is and has been exclusively on helmet pull for the summer, neck high tackles are far more dangerous to me and as prevalent. I think Aussie looked worse than De Burcas, but I really don't see how Tuohys was less deliberate. If it had been left off, which on another day it might have an Tuohys happens in between, theres no way he would be suspended.

Personally, I do feel it would be very harsh on the team as a whole to see a third player suspended for this offense this year. But I am from Waterford so I'll accept I'm not going to be neutral on it either.

I thought Cahalane tackle was a second yellow. Dillon was running at full speed and he was trying to stop him but mistimed it.

Horgan could have walked in the Munster final yes. A very similar one was Brick Walsh tackle on Cooper just after half time yesterday.he was lucky Cooper made little of it.

The Gleeson incident is similar to Bennett on Cahalane earlier in the year. The footage is clear to see andvery damning and I'd be surprised if he faces no further sanction.

Dionysis

Was Bennett in the refs match report, if not, then Austin Gleeson should be fine. Why? to start picking out red card incidences in games via TV replays after the game would open the door to teams trying to get other players red carded after the game. E.g. Waterford would trawl the Galway Tipp game looking for incidences off he ball that were red card offences and ask for the Galway to be sanctioned for it.

However wasnt it Waterford supporters who dialled into the Sunday Game looking for Tuohy to be canned from the all Ireland?

mountgomery burns

Dionysis wrote: »

Was Bennett in the refs match report, if not, then Austin Gleeson should be fine. Why? to start picking out red card incidences in games via TV replays after the game would open the door to teams trying to get other players red carded after the game. E.g. Waterford would trawl the Galway Tipp game looking for incidences off he ball that were red card offences and ask for the Galway to be sanctioned for it.

However wasnt it Waterford supporters who dialled into the Sunday Game looking for Tuohy to be canned from the all Ireland?

I'm not sure if it was tongue in cheek, but Colm Parkinson tweeted in quotation about Galway fans messaging the Sunday game to review Gleesons incident. The other thing is Tadhg Bourkes appeal was still ongoing, I think anyone from Waterford wanted the incodent highlighted in the hope that it would help allow him to play yesterday.

I maintain now that I think Tuohys was deliberate, but I think anyone that would ask for him to be suspended from an all ireland final needs to get a life.

Amprodude

niallo27 wrote: »

It's not that clear cut though. Do we review every dodgy decision that happens on the field. I mean Horgan elbowed a Clare defender in the Munster final, a clear red but he got away with it and we all moved on. For some reason because it's Glesson there is a witch hunt for the guy.

Niallo would you ever give the anti Cork thing a rest. He clearly pulled the helmet off the player. I don't care if gleeson was wearing a Cork Jersey he pulled the helmet off and deserves a ban. Don't care if he's the best player or not in the field. He broke the rules. Simple as.

elefant

castletownman wrote: »

Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

Yeah, that's not true.

C__MC

Amprodude wrote: »

Niallo would you ever give the anti Cork thing a rest. He clearly pulled the helmet off the player. I don't care if gleeson was wearing a Cork Jersey he pulled the helmet off and deserves a ban. Don't care if he's the best player or not in the field. He broke the rules. Simple as.

Plus 1

This rubbish that he doesn't deserve to miss the final because of who he is and what the occasion is utter nonsense.

davidx40

Its black and white for austin gleeson....its by far the worst incident of this infringement in last year or so ....how anyone can say otherwise is not talking sense ....he clearly ripped the helmet of his head ....its a pity for him but if the gaa dont act on this there in serious trouble

Right2Write

munsterlegend wrote: »

Gleeson knew exactly what he was doing.

?? You're implying that he wanted to get himself a straight red card? Why on earth would he do that? It's a fast moving game with arms and hurls everywhere. There are bound to be moments when hands come across helmets and catch them. Why would Gleeson in this instance think - I'm going to rip this chap's helmet off?

BENDYBINN

castletownman wrote: »

GAA. The only sporting organisation when lads committing a neck-high challenge (and the first yellow card was a raw swipe too) is considered less than a grab of a helmet in a bit of a coming together. Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

GAA. The one sporting organisation that would ignore the circumstances and ban one of it's superstars from the biggest match of all-time. Idiots. Reflects well

All week the talk was of helmets. His own man suspended because of a helmet pull. What does he do?. Yanks the helmet off a cork fella for the craic. Jesus you couldn't write it.

Right2Write

BENDYBINN wrote: »

All week the talk was of helmets. His own man suspended because of a helmet pull. What does he do?. Yanks the helmet off a cork fella for the craic. Jesus you couldn't write it.

Sure, it makes no sense at all. I can fully understand a chap getting riled and striking out with the hurl in a moment of anger. But a deliberate grasp of a players face guard and ripping the helmet off requires more premeditation. Much easier to happen accidentally as people falling against each other and hands grasping/ grappling trying to keep balance.

Woodbrook80

Where is best to get tickets for the final my nephew is playing for Galway in the minor final as well hoping to see Galway win the seniors :-) do they sell online at all

KrustyUCC

Best place is through a club

No All Ireland tickets are not sold online

PTH2009

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Best place is through a club

No All Ireland tickets are not sold online

Going by the last few years They might have a very limited public sale the week of the final on tickets.ie but it might not happen this year

A lot of sponsors,ex players, GAA big guns etc get there cut. Clubs in Waterford, Galway and Cork will get a big %. Season ticket holders from Waterford/Galway who meet the criteria get tickets too

Hitchens

is television ruining the hurling and football? Constantly zooming in on players actions and then replaying them in slow motion which is NOT how things happen in real time.

Then on the Sunday Game you have lads like Ger and Pat etc trying to be funny but subtly getting in digs at players or managers they don't like!

washman3

castletownman wrote: »

GAA. The only sporting organisation when lads committing a neck-high challenge (and the first yellow card was a raw swipe too) is considered less than a grab of a helmet in a bit of a coming together. Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

GAA. The one sporting organisation that would ignore the circumstances and ban one of it's superstars from the biggest match of all-time. Idiots. Reflects well

Probably the biggest load of rubbish I've ever read on the GAA forum.
And that says a lot.

danganabu

I am on record as saying that the rule is a mess and needs to be revisited/amended ASAP, but that said the rule is there and was introduced for a very good reason. Gleeson deserves to be brought up for it, for the sheer stupidity alone if nothing else. And lets not forget that he is the third Waterford player to be caught this year, that does not reflect well.

As I have said I don't agree with the rule but its there and he as clear as day broke said rule, tbh if he isn't suspended, and deep down I hope he isn't for the sake of the game (we only get one AI a year), then it makes a complete mockery of the entire rule book and defacto the game.

mickmackey1

danganabu wrote: »

Gleeson deserves to be brought up for it, for the sheer stupidity alone if nothing else.

To be fair most of the Waterford lads don't strike me as Mastermind contestants.

Motivator

mickmackey1 wrote: »

To be fair most of the Waterford lads don't strike me as Mastermind contestants.

Yeah you're right, there must not be a brain among any one of a panel that is full of university students, bank officials, accountants and teachers.

I said

danganabu wrote: »

I am on record as saying that the rule is a mess and needs to be revisited/amended ASAP, but that said the rule is there and was introduced for a very good reason. Gleeson deserves to be brought up for it, for the sheer stupidity alone if nothing else. And lets not forget that he is the third Waterford player to be caught this year, that does not reflect well.

As I have said I don't agree with the rule but its there and he as clear as day broke said rule, tbh if he isn't suspended, and deep down I hope he isn't for the sake of the game (we only get one AI a year), then it makes a complete mockery of the entire rule book and defacto the game.

Had his open hand ripped of the helmet as it slid up along then no bother,but once you see the grip action been made he has no defence.

lawred2

Wasn't at all surprised by yesterday's result. Cork enjoyed a lot of space and freedom is what was a very light touch Munster championship. The perfect environment for their players.

Waterford were always going to shut the space down yesterday. You could see Nash getting visibly frustrated.

One thing I would say is that a red card and and 11 point defeat was not just rewards for Pat Horgan's performance.

lol at the those Cork lads being brought back to earth though. Honestly - there are few to beat them in terms of getting carried away. Spoke to a few on Saturday and I was getting quizzical looks when I said that Waterford will be a tough proposition - they were more interested in talking about Galway.

GeordieRebel

danganabu wrote: »

I am on record as saying that the rule is a mess and needs to be revisited/amended ASAP, but that said the rule is there and was introduced for a very good reason. Gleeson deserves to be brought up for it, for the sheer stupidity alone if nothing else. And lets not forget that he is the third Waterford player to be caught this year, that does not reflect well.

As I have said I don't agree with the rule but its there and he as clear as day broke said rule, tbh if he isn't suspended, and deep down I hope he isn't for the sake of the game (we only get one AI a year), then it makes a complete mockery of the entire rule book and defacto the game.

I'd feel sorry for Gleeson but I think it should be a ban. It was deliberate and it could've looked a lot worse if Meade's helmet was on tighter. That's a big problem with how people are looking at the rule I think. Similar incidents are going to look very different depending on how tight a helmet is on. That's why I think the current rule isn't ideal, but I don't really see a better option.

Clareman

castletownman wrote: »

GAA. The only sporting organisation when lads committing a neck-high challenge (and the first yellow card was a raw swipe too) is considered less than a grab of a helmet in a bit of a coming together. Literally no difference between Touhy and Gleeson

GAA. The one sporting organisation that would ignore the circumstances and ban one of it's superstars from the biggest match of all-time. Idiots. Reflects well

Off the top of my head American Football regards interfering with an opponents helmet (hehe) as an extremely serious offence, more so than a neck high challenge, I think ice hockey does as well but I'm not sure of the penalty for high tackles.

In fact, I'm struggling to think of a sport where helmets are worn where interfering with an opponents helmet (hehe) isn't an extremely serious offence.

Clareman

Wrong post quotes

The rule is if you interfere intentionally with an opponents helmet it's a red card offence, if the ref takes action it's a red, if he doesn't it can be reviewed and the CCC can recommend review.

Clareman

Hitchens wrote: »

is television ruining the hurling and football? Constantly zooming in on players actions and then replaying them in slow motion which is NOT how things happen in real time.

Then on the Sunday Game you have lads like Ger and Pat etc trying to be funny but subtly getting in digs at players or managers they don't like!

It happens in every sport, 20 years ago there wouldn't have been alternative views of anything, in fact if I recall correctly RTÉ used to just record the live broadcast not what was caught by cameras.

danganabu

Clareman wrote: »

The rule is if you interfere intentionally with an opponents helmet it's a red card offence, if the ref takes action it's a red, if he doesn't it can be reviewed and the CCC can recommend review.

Not sure why you quoted me? I know thats the rule and that Gleeson broke said rule

Clareman

danganabu wrote: »

Not sure why you quoted me? I know thats the rule and that Gleeson broke said rule

Sorry, I quoted the wrong post