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SteamGifts Boards.ie private group (Discussion Only)

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    #122
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    In my opinion you should only be entering for yourself. When I do a giveaway my intention is for it to go to someone in the Boards group not one of your mates. My intention is for it to go to someone who really wants it. You must be just entering all the giveaways out of boredom.

    I think in future if I see "robertninja" I'll be hitting "select new winner" (or whatever it's called!).

    To be honest, you only have to look at the gift received/sent ratio of some in the group to realise many are entering just out of boredom. There are people in the Boards Whitelist who have received far more than given, and barely even use their Steam account. I'm not sure who set up the group, but it might be an idea to start a new group for people with a certain give/receive ratio while also keeping this one going for everyone else. At least then you will know you are offering your games to those who also give away games.

    Steam gift rating or level isn't enough as some people invest by giving away a couple of high priced games at the start to get their level to 4 or 5, and then never give away again. This allows them to rest on that rating for months if not years and then enter every give away to build a steam library.


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    #123
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Falthyron wrote: »
    To be honest, you only have to look at the gift received/sent ratio of some in the group to realise many are entering just out of boredom. There are people in the Boards Whitelist who have received far more than given, and barely even use their Steam account. I'm not sure who set up the group, but it might be an idea to start a new group for people with a certain give/receive ratio while also keeping this one going for everyone else. At least then you will know you are offering your games to those who also give away games.

    Steam gift rating or level isn't enough as some people invest by giving away a couple of high priced games at the start to get their level to 4 or 5, and then never give away again. This allows them to rest on that rating for months if not years and then enter every give away to build a steam library.

    The rating does decay, and you need to give away a decent bit of stuff to hit level 4 in fairness. I think I've 37 given away at a total value of over $400, I'm barely inside level 4. If giving away $400 worth of stuff doesn't entitle me to sit back a little now that I can't afford to give stuff away, then you won't find a working system. You might as well just pick and choose who you give stuff to.

    I can't speak for levels 5 or above as I've never reached them.

    I haven't seen my stats in ages so if I'm wrong feel free to let me know, but that's what I remember.


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    #124
    Skerries
    Registered Users Posts: 12,322 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    sorry guys can we bring this discussion over to the discussion only thread please

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056985464
    Untitled Image




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    #125
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Digital Solitude wrote: »
    The rating does decay, and you need to give away a decent bit of stuff to hit level 4 in fairness. I think I've 37 given away at a total value of over $400, I'm barely inside level 4. If giving away $400 worth of stuff doesn't entitle me to sit back a little now that I can't afford to give stuff away, then you won't find a working system. You might as well just pick and choose who you give stuff to.

    I can't speak for levels 5 or above as I've never reached them.

    I haven't seen my stats in ages so if I'm wrong feel free to let me know, but that's what I remember.

    The rate of decay is very slow. Mine barely moves at all, but I tend to hover in and around level 4.3 or so. The level isn't enough though because there are people who make one or two giveaways and that boosts them to level 2 or 3 and it would take a very long time for them to go below level 1 from there.

    IMO, the best filter would be the give away difference rating that can be found on the Boards.ie Steamgifts page. If someone put a value on it, say: you must have a gift difference of +10, or a particular dollar value in the positive, such as +$40 then that would be a good way of ensuring those eligible for giveaways are also offering their own giveaways. Maybe run a poll or something. Ask those in the Boards.ie Steamgifts group if they would like to see two groups. One where you can throw up any giveaway for anyone on Boards and another for those who have met a certain criteria (have shown to be giving games away from time to time). To thwart those who would chance their arm and do one or two and never look back, perhaps a monthly check on the members and their gift or dollar difference would work. If your gift or dollar difference drops below the threshold then you are removed from the group until you meet the criteria again.

    EDIT: Just to say that you (Digital Solitude) have given away a substantial amount, consistently (400 dollars in total), but I am referring to those who give away one or two games and have a total give away value of less than $50, but have somehow managed to win $300+ or 20+ games on a very small contribution. Fair enough, not everyone can contribute evenly, but an effort to do something should be appreciated. That's why I suggest two groups. One for everyone and one for those eager to see their games going to those who not only contribute, but also play the games they have won.


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    #126
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Does anyone have Oob/IrishOob in their Steam friends? He's proving hard to contact.


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    #127
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    raze_them_all_ wrote: »
    It's kind of a hey guys this is for someone on this group thing. Not hey give this to your mates thing. You have a copy, took a copy from another user and then gave it to someone not in the group
    Well that double key thing has never happened before so I don't think it's worth worrying about.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    In my opinion you should only be entering for yourself.
    I do.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    When I do a giveaway my intention is for it to go to someone in the Boards group not one of your mates.
    2 keys aren't supposed to drop for the same user. It's an error AFAIK, I don't know why you feel the need to try and scold me about something out of my hands. When someone lists a game I own, it comes up with a red button saying already exists in account and prevents the user from entering. I think most users have 100s of unplayed games and probably don't remember exactly what they own either especially the kinds of smaller games that get given away commonly in these things.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    My intention is for it to go to someone who really wants it. You must be just entering all the giveaways out of boredom.
    So what kind of criteria do we have to submit to in order to join the group or enter for your coveted titles? A test to see if you really want the game? I didn't enter the gone home giveaway because I didn't want that game. Almost all other games listed I thought I might want in some way or another. Maybe not want it a lot, but where do you draw the line? This is getting a bit daft tbh.
    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think in future if I see "robertninja" I'll be hitting "select new winner" (or whatever it's called!).
    Not much I can do about that. You're free to discriminate I suppose.

    Update:
    Here's some proof of the activation date of the first giveaway for Umbrella Corps vs the win date of the 2nd giveaway.
    ISe81Lc.png

    17 days after I won the game once the account was able to enter and win it again. That's not supposed to happen.


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    #128
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Falthyron wrote: »
    The rate of decay is very slow. Mine barely moves at all, but I tend to hover in and around level 4.3 or so. The level isn't enough though because there are people who make one or two giveaways and that boosts them to level 2 or 3 and it would take a very long time for them to go below level 1 from there.

    IMO, the best filter would be the give away difference rating that can be found on the Boards.ie Steamgifts page. If someone put a value on it, say: you must have a gift difference of +10, or a particular dollar value in the positive, such as +$40 then that would be a good way of ensuring those eligible for giveaways are also offering their own giveaways. Maybe run a poll or something. Ask those in the Boards.ie Steamgifts group if they would like to see two groups. One where you can throw up any giveaway for anyone on Boards and another for those who have met a certain criteria (have shown to be giving games away from time to time). To thwart those who would chance their arm and do one or two and never look back, perhaps a monthly check on the members and their gift or dollar difference would work. If your gift or dollar difference drops below the threshold then you are removed from the group until you meet the criteria again.

    EDIT: Just to say that you (Digital Solitude) have given away a substantial amount, consistently (400 dollars in total), but I am referring to those who give away one or two games and have a total give away value of less than $50, but have somehow managed to win $300+ or 20+ games on a very small contribution. Fair enough, not everyone can contribute evenly, but an effort to do something should be appreciated. That's why I suggest two groups. One for everyone and one for those eager to see their games going to those who not only contribute, but also play the games they have won.

    Its impossible to run a group of people who have positive ratios though, every group balances out to 1:1 no matter what.

    I would agree with you that its a pity to see people who have massive Giveaway to Win ratios but that's just how it is, all we can do is hope they'll pick up their slack when they're in a financial position to do so.

    I also think you're overestimating how long it takes to get to Level 3, I'm not sure about 2 but 3 surely takes $150+, if not $200+.

    There's also the fact that probably 99% of giveaways within the group are Level 1, which only requires a single giveaway to reach. I don't think you can even decay from Level 1. If most people starting giving away at Level 2 minimum, you'd automatically see people with a higher ratio winning, so on so forth. Even if I've only given away 5 games at $50 each, that's still $250 worth of games. If I win 25 $10 indies, its a fair system surely? But I'm still 'up' 20 games.

    The money ratio is what I'd consider more important that straight up game numbers, but even then it doesn't phase me too much. But I do think a lot of the problems (if people see them as problems) would be alleviated if we used the Level Restriction more often.

    I dunno, I might be rambling at this stage but the level system doesn't work for us simply because we don't use it imo. A system like you're putting forward is simply unsustainable without huge work from the mods.


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    #129
    Mickeroo
    Administrators, Computer Games Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 32,163 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Mickeroo


    I thought the whole point of the group was to give away spare games you didn't want rather than expecting people to go and buy games just to give them away or some form of competition to see who can give away the most?

    I rarely buy games I don't want so I haven't given away much (it's been quite a while since i gave anything away). Any I have given away were likely left overs from bundles and I only buy bundles when I want some of the games in them. On the other hand I barely enter any giveaways as I only enter for games I want.


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    #130
    Mr Crispy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,678 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    I don't see the problem with members giving away less than they win when there already exists perfectly good mechanisms for omitting them from your giveaways (selecting a higher level for the giveaway, or blacklisting the person) if you personally feel they're taking the piss.

    And it's true that SteamGifts are pretty lax about enforcing the "one win per game" and "not activated all wins" rules. That's why SGTools was created. Use it and it eliminates most* shady shenanigans, if any even occur in our group. It's especially good for ensuring people who give wins to friends can't enter, which is something I would see a problem with.

    *If you really wanted to be a wanker, you could give the giveaway link to friends who don't qualify, but you could check the winners after the fact as well.


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    #131
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Ever since I've found out about SGTools I've just wanted to know which of ye feckers ratted on me last year :(

    Not cool


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    #132
    Tinie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,402 ✭✭✭Tinie


    Digital Solitude wrote: »
    Ever since I've found out about SGTools I've just wanted to know which of ye feckers ratted on me last year :(

    Not cool

    What happened you?


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    #133
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Tinie wrote: »
    What happened you?

    I had 10 or 12 games that I had won but not activated, so I was banned.

    When you get banned, you don't have access to any of your account details expect the unregistered game list and who gave it away. No access to keys, so I had to go round to each boardsie and ask them to flit back and find keys that were months old and PM them to me, took about a week all in.

    After that, I had to request them check my Steam account before they unbanned me.

    I could have just bought the games on steam either, same difference.

    It was my own fault in fairness, I'm only messing about finding the rat, but it is something members of the group need to be aware of because its a bitch to get unbanned. I had to chase up Links234 on Steam for keys, and had problems with messages deleting and stuff like that, just generally a not fun experience.


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    #134
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Digital Solitude wrote: »
    I had 10 or 12 games that I had won but not activated, so I was banned.

    When you get banned, you don't have access to any of your account details expect the unregistered game list and who gave it away. No access to keys, so I had to go round to each boardsie and ask them to flit back and find keys that were months old and PM them to me, took about a week all in.

    After that, I had to request them check my Steam account before they unbanned me.

    I could have just bought the games on steam either, same difference.

    It was my own fault in fairness, I'm only messing about finding the rat, but it is something members of the group need to be aware of because its a bitch to get unbanned. I had to chase up Links234 on Steam for keys, and had problems with messages deleting and stuff like that, just generally a not fun experience.

    I thought that check was automated?

    But they have good reason for this to avoid various scammers/resellers.


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    #135
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Spear wrote: »
    I thought that check was automated?

    But they have good reason for this to avoid various scammers/resellers.

    I'm not sure, it was posted recently that its a report based system.

    I know yeah, as I said it was my own fault, I understand why I was banned it would just be nicer if I got a warning first, or it was easier to be unbanned. We'll know for future anyways.


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    #136
    Star Lord
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    2 keys aren't supposed to drop for the same user. It's an error AFAIK, I don't know why you feel the need to try and scold me about something out of my hands.

    People's issue isn't that you won the game twice. It's that you chose to give the code to a mate, rather than telling the person doing the giveaway "Whoops, I already have that, and it shouldn't have let me enter. Do you want to reroll it, or can I give it to a mate instead?"

    The whole thing here runs on good will, and taking advantage of that good will erodes it.


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    #137
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    Star Lord wrote: »
    People's issue isn't that you won the game twice. It's that you chose to give the code to a mate, rather than telling the person doing the giveaway "Whoops, I already have that, and it shouldn't have let me enter. Do you want to reroll it, or can I give it to a mate instead?"

    The whole thing here runs on good will, and taking advantage of that good will erodes it.
    Star Lord wrote: »
    t's that you chose to give the code to a mate, rather than telling the person doing the giveaway "Whoops, I already have that, and it shouldn't have let me enter. Do you want to reroll it, or can I give it to a mate instead?"

    You see that as devious, I don't. Giving a key away because I already had the game isn't taking advantage, at least in my mind. The person wanted to give a key away. I already had a key, so I tried to pass it on. I didn't feel the need to ask the person because the system had decided I had won it so it was within my hands to gift it along. I had no idea people were this strict and weirdly loyal to only allow boards members. I wouldn't have an issue with it so I assumed nobody else would. The person wanted to gift the key away and that's what would've happened in the end. Not even acquaintances of boards members are allowed to share these prestigious games? I really don't get that.

    If someone gave away a key to a friend that they'd won from me I really wouldn't care. The good will is the generosity of giving away keys. I thought most people who join this kind of thing have spare keys and feel generous. Apparently it's not about generosity...there's some kind of boards popularity contest or eco and the currency is game keys.

    I have a very casual approach to game gifting because I feel it's a very casual thing to do. But apparently there's unwritten rules and restrictions and the whole thing is quite serious.

    And for the record, I did say to reroll it the minute I became aware that's what people would prefer.


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    #138
    Mr Crispy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,678 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    But the rules ARE written. To be a member of the group, you have to be on boards for 3 months and have more than 50 posts. By giving the game to a friend, you're allowing him/her to bypass these rules. It's really quite obvious.

    Edit: By re-gifting, you're also breaking Steam Gifts' own rules, which again, are very clearly defined.


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    #139
    Skerries
    Registered Users Posts: 12,322 ✭✭✭✭Skerries


    I don't think we have to be that strict about it as it is more an informal thing I thought
    I would not care what someone does with a key after they get it apart from reselling it as that would not be in the spirit of the giveaway
    Untitled Image




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    #140
    Robert ninja
    Registered Users Posts: 3,878 ✭✭✭Robert ninja


    Darch Nemesis wrote: »
    But the rules ARE written. To be a member of the group, you have to be on boards for 3 months and have more than 50 posts.
    That's conditions to join the group. What you do with spare keys the system has glitched and designated you as a winner with is not written anywhere nor should it be since it's not even supposed to happen.

    Also VanZan has unwritten rules he now applies to his giveaways. You have to really want the game. To what degree? That's ambiguous. But if he thinks you don't want the game, you're not getting it.
    Darch Nemesis wrote: »
    By re-gifting, you're also breaking Steam Gifts' own rules, which again, are very clearly defined.

    Actually since I have the game in my steam library streamgifts thinks everything's dandy. It's steamgifts that malfunctioned and gave me 2 keys, so if they think that's wrong they should probably fix it.

    For transparency; I'm already being blacklisted by the group members. Christ.


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    #141
    dreamers75
    Registered Users Posts: 20,558 ✭✭✭✭dreamers75


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    T

    For transparency; I'm already being blacklisted by the group members. Christ.

    How is that possible?


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    #142
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    I've sure I've said all this before, but still...

    The group has always been fairly light on rules and moderation. The intent was always been to provide a way for members of boards.ie to give away spare or unwanted keys to other boards.ie members.

    By it's very definition it relies upon good will.

    With nearly 250 members, I've no doubt this provides a broad spectrum of user demographics, including their ability or inability to afford games for varying reasons. So while it would be nice if everyone could contribute equally, you can't assume this. I've spent something like a quarter grand on games just to giveaway for the milestones, or for retro titles that I reckon newer games should have the chance to play afresh. But I don't for an instant assume that others can do so at a whim.

    If anyone wants either to encourage or reward others to give, then you have full latitude to make use of the entry level requirement options as your own conscience/whims/principles see fit.


    On a different but practical note, Irishoob set up the group, but is now awol, both on boards.ie and Steam. He never gave anyone else admin rights, so I can't remove dormant users. So to regain control of things, it would need a new group to be created. This at least would also have the benefit of clearing out any dormant/departed members at least.


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    #143
    Mr Crispy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,678 ✭✭✭Mr Crispy


    A new group would be fine by me.


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    #144
    Falthyron
    Registered Users Posts: 2,835 ✭✭✭Falthyron


    Yeah, a new group would be a good idea.


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    #145
    Digital Solitude
    Registered Users Posts: 11,397 ✭✭✭✭Digital Solitude


    Is his email available in any way?

    I doubt it but Admins would hardly hand that out to yourself for this purpose Spear?


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    #146
    moonboy52
    Registered Users Posts: 2,188 ✭✭✭moonboy52


    +1


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    #147
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Digital Solitude wrote: »
    Is his email available in any way?

    I doubt it but Admins would hardly hand that out to yourself for this purpose Spear?

    I've already tried a PM, which would usually trigger an alert to his email by default.


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    #148
    Tinie
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 5,402 ✭✭✭Tinie


    Is it not a lot of work to clear out dormant users? Like what issue are they causing by not being active?


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    #149
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    Tinie wrote: »
    Is it not a lot of work to clear out dormant users? Like what issue are they causing by not being active?

    There's instances of those who aren't on boards.ie any more, but are still using the group to get games.


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    #150
    Spear
    Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Help & Feedback Category Moderators Posts: 25,100 CMod ✭✭✭✭Spear


    One problem sorted, Irishoob has reappeared, and the group permissions are sorted. We can avoid the need for a new group.

    I've requested a new winner on my Pillars of Eternity giveaway.


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    #151
    Star Lord
    Registered Users Posts: 30,123 ✭✭✭✭Star Lord


    Robert ninja wrote: »
    I had no idea people were this strict and weirdly loyal to only allow boards members. I wouldn't have an issue with it so I assumed nobody else would. The person wanted to gift the key away and that's what would've happened in the end.

    Apparently it's not about generosity...there's some kind of boards popularity contest or eco and the currency is game keys.

    If it was just giving the keys away in general, why use the group? We'd just put them up as a the general SteamGifts giveaway. It's giving away the games to members of the gaming community that we have here on Boards, rather than some kind of 'popularity contest'.


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