Help me understand the 24/7 Heart Attack care report

blue note · 24-01-2017 4:12pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

Good to see the Kilkenny hurling team offering to come on board with the campaign. If full 24/7 coronary care is to be delivered, it needs input from across the South-East. The more different groups that come on board, the more publicity the campaign will get. As the spokesman from Kilkenny GAA said, the only place that South-Eastern counties should line up against one another is on a sports field.

In fairness, if anyone should come on board it's those lads. They've been responsible for more broken hearts in Waterford than just about anyone!

All joking aside the only chance of success the 24/7 care has is if it gains traction as a regional issue. The KK hurling team coming on board could actually be a massive help for this, so fair play to them for doing it. They could genuinely help to save lives.

reni10 · 24-01-2017 4:34pm

There should be some sort of recognisable symbol for the cause worn by the Waterford, Kilkenny, Wexford and Tipp Players in the National Hurling League and Championship this year to also raise awareness at a national level on the TV etc. to really show the rest of the country that this is a South East Regional issue and is not going to go away!

road_high · 24-01-2017 4:59pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

Good to see the Kilkenny hurling team offering to come on board with the campaign. If full 24/7 coronary care is to be delivered, it needs input from across the South-East. The more different groups that come on board, the more publicity the campaign will get. As the spokesman from Kilkenny GAA said, the only place that South-Eastern counties should line up against one another is on a sports field.

Is there a link to this story some place?

Squidvicious · 24-01-2017 6:33pm

road_high wrote: »

Is there a link to this story some place?

It's on the front page of this week's Munster Express but I couldn't see it on their website - I think that there is often a little bit of a delay before their "print" stories reach the website. I can't seem to find a link to the story anywhere else. How embarrassed will I be if it's a Munster Express hoax;)

Johnboy1951 · 24-01-2017 8:33pm

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/232033/kilkenny-hurlers-backing-hand-on-heart-campaign.html

You are safe

Squidvicious · 24-01-2017 9:32pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/232033/kilkenny-hurlers-backing-hand-on-heart-campaign.html

You are safe

Phew! Thank God for that. Smarter people than me have been caught out by Munster Express hoaxes

Dunmoreroader · 24-01-2017 10:08pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/home/232033/kilkenny-hurlers-backing-hand-on-heart-campaign.html

You are safe

Fcuk me the Kilkenny People just can't help themselves; "Waterford General Hospital".
Muppets.

BBM77 · 19-06-2017 10:12pm

https://www.rte.ie/news/munster/2017/0619/883930-waterford-thomas-power/

Poor man RIP. And this is not the first time I am told. In one of the richest countries in the world. The government is absolutely pathetic.

TheQuietFella · 19-06-2017 10:22pm

I hope the people of Waterford remember this when the like of Halligan and Butler come knocking on the doors of Waterford residents during the next elections! I'll resign he said! All the bull**** spouted by these people. I hope tonight they sleep peacefully! I sincerely hope that I meet neither on the streets of Waterford or even Dublin!

Annabella1 · 20-06-2017 3:35pm

azimuth17 wrote: »

I understand the point being made. The Acute Coronary Syndrome programme would insist that a 24/7 PPCI centre would have at least 2 cath labs. That why UHW is in pursuit of a second one. One to do elective work an done to be available for emergency work as far as I understand it. All other Irish PPCI centres have at least 2 cath labs.

Fine...build the extra lab
The real problem is staffing
Needs 7-8 Cardiologists to staff it 24/7 and specialized nursing and support staff
We have large consultant vacancies in every Irish hospital because of poor work conditions and poor pay relative to US/Oz/Canada

Asmodean · 20-06-2017 8:53pm

How can a hospital call itself a hospital when it can't even adequately treat THE number one cause of death in the developed world? Its absolute madness.

greenspurs · 21-06-2017 4:09pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Fcuk me the Kilkenny People just can't help themselves; "Waterford General Hospital".
Muppets.

:D:D:D:D
Its the little things ........

Wanderer2010 · 21-06-2017 5:07pm

Not a peep out of Coffey or Deasy to condemn the government for not providing the Cath Lab or getting nearer to 24/7 cardiac care...absolute self serving wasters.

vicwatson · 21-06-2017 5:15pm

Halligan gone into hiding too as is the leader of the Labour Party who's from the south east HOWLIN waste of space

greenspurs · 21-06-2017 5:56pm

vicwatson wrote: »

Halligan gone into hiding too as is the leader of the Labour Party who's from the south east HOWLIN waste of space

Halligan said the "easy thing to do would be to resign over not getting the 2nd Cath Lab" ...... "by staying in office , he can keep the pressure on.."

Anyone seen Mary Butler ?
Remember her ? She was last seen with a massive poster with Michael Martin declaring their election promise of the lab !!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad::mad::mad:

Johnboy1951 · 21-06-2017 6:22pm

https://www.facebook.com/johnhalliganwaterford/posts/1522848804445814

With respect to the mobile cath lab, it has been agreed that it will be deployed to UHW for five months, during which usage will be monitored and this will feed into a second clinical review at the end of the five months to determine the impact that having two labs running concurrently will have on waiting times. It is CRUCIAL that consultants across the south east make use of that lab for the five months that it is in place, to best demonstrate demand within the region.
This second review will be done in consultation with other Oireachtas members and stakeholders in the south east and it will be carried out by a clinician outside of the HSE.

I doubt consultants who have arrangements for their patients with which they are satisfied are going to change their ways for a mobile cath lab available for only 5 months.

It would be nice to think they would.

TheQuietFella · 21-06-2017 6:50pm

vicwatson wrote: »

Halligan gone into hiding too as is the leader of the Labour Party who's from the south east HOWLIN waste of space

Halligan was never anywhere else but in hiding, as for Butler she's like the chocolates, expensive but lacking in taste and value!

greenspurs · 22-06-2017 7:54am

quite a bit of of coverage on Joe Duffy for the last couple of days .....
pretty damning, and pretty horrific what people have to go through! Scandalous

Max Powers · 22-06-2017 8:26am

greenspurs wrote: »

quite a bit of of coverage on Joe Duffy for the last couple of days .....
pretty damning, and pretty horrific what people have to go through! Scandalous

Yep, Irish independent, times and examiner gave it decent coverage too,I fear more will have to die before Harris can climb down from his 'i have to go by herity' B.S. .it certainly feels like the message finally became not ignorable after this tragedy happened...by that I mean it became national topic for radio and papers, some of the commentary still very poor e.g. saying for Waterford when its for SE., not mentioning the deeply flawed terms of reference, breaking up the SE area Uhw serves, etc etc

dzilla · 22-06-2017 9:19am

TheQuietFella wrote: »

Halligan was never anywhere else but in hiding, as for Butler she's like the chocolates, expensive but lacking in taste and value!

I am so disappointed in Mary Butler. I voted for her expecting good representation. The way things are she could be challenging John Deasy for Hide and Seek champion if hes not careful.

greenspurs · 22-06-2017 9:22am

dzilla wrote: »

I am so disappointed in Mary Butler. I voted for her expecting good representation. The way things are she could be challenging John Deasy for Hide and Seek champion if hes not careful.

What does she do ? What has she done ?
What a waste of a vote. .. .
TD = Totally Dissapeared :mad:

Chiparus · 22-06-2017 10:18am

The Herity report is being ignored in part , it recommended no interventional heart attack care should be carried out in Waterford, but it continues 9-5 Monday to Friday. This is indefensible.

The plan to build a 2 million helipad instead of a 2 million cath lab also beggars belief .

BBM77 · 22-06-2017 10:51am

Chiparus wrote: »

The Herity report is being ignored in part , it recommended no interventional heart attack care should be carried out in Waterford, but it continues 9-5 Monday to Friday. This is indefensible.

The plan to build a 2 million helipad instead of a 2 million cath lab also beggars belief .

I did not think the government could stoop any lower with this but they have. I mean for the Taoiseach to stand up in the Dail the other day and say that they should wait until there is an autopsy carried out as the cause of death may not have been because he did not get cardiac care in time is just appalling. I mean the attitude, being that consultants have been saying for years that this kind of thing will happen and the government saying that they must follow medical advice. I’m actually lost for words.

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2017 12:38pm

BBM77 wrote: »

I did not think the government could stoop any lower with this but they have. I mean for the Taoiseach to stand up in the Dail the other day and say that they should wait until there is an autopsy carried out as the cause of death may not have been because he did not get cardiac care in time is just appalling. I mean the attitude, being that consultants have been saying for years that this kind of thing will happen and the government saying that they must follow medical advice. I’m actually lost for words.

im not surprised at this at all, this is as a result of failed policies such as austerity.

Sarz91 · 22-06-2017 12:45pm

Aren't there plans for a new mortuary in Waterford university hospital? I read somewhere it's costing up to €3 million.

BBM77 · 22-06-2017 1:48pm

Sarz91 wrote: »

Aren't there plans for a new mortuary in Waterford university hospital? I read somewhere it's costing up to €3 million.

Sure, the new building being built there now must be costing the government €20 or €30 million. Yet they won’t spend €2 million on a cath lab.

BBM77 · 22-06-2017 1:51pm

Wanderer78 wrote: »

im not surprised at this at all, this is as a result of failed policies such as austerity.

This is politics plain and simple it’s nothing to do with austerity. See last post.

Deise Vu · 22-06-2017 2:15pm

BBM77 wrote: »

This is politics plain and simple it’s nothing to do with austerity. See last post.

100%. It is very easy to produce a report to give you the result you want if you restrict the parameters. I would have a modicum of faith in Herity if he was asked: How many Cath Labs should there be in the entire country and where should they be located to give optimum coverage. Somehow I doubt that we would end up with 20 (that's TWENTY) in Dublin. Whats that, one for every 50-75,000 people? Then they tell us we need a catchment population of 500,000??

They really do think we are stupid down here. They are probably right, we should be burning down the Dáil.

This link is a start but unfortunately doesn't do what it says on the tin. I would love to know how many Cath labs there are in total and where they are all located:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/health/where-the-cath-labs-are-located-and-what-they-do-35849692.html

dzilla · 22-06-2017 2:53pm

What can we do as the general public down here to pressurize the govt? I don't agree with marching on Ballybricken of a Saturday I don't think it solves anything, doubt they even notice it in the Dail

Taxburden carrier · 22-06-2017 2:58pm

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Not a peep out of Coffey or Deasy to condemn the government for not providing the Cath Lab or getting nearer to 24/7 cardiac care...absolute self serving wasters.

Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
....because he was overlooked for promotion !
Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:

dzilla · 22-06-2017 3:09pm

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
....because he was overlooked for promotion !
Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:

He isn't even based in Waterford. That sums it up for me. Wow I never thought I'd be looking for Paudie Coffeys return

Max Powers · 22-06-2017 6:40pm

Taxburden carrier wrote: »

Well according to today's Examiner, Deasy is really angry and 'out for blood'
....because he was overlooked for promotion !
Good to see that he has got his finger on the Waterford pulse :rolleyes:

The examiner also says he'll be rewarded in other ways, if that isn't good funding for north quays SDZ with his name attached, it will be John Who? in the seanad.I suppose all this in papers is big pinch of salt.

Chiparus · 22-06-2017 6:51pm

Varadkar values trust ,
Would you trust John Deasy?

Wanderer78 · 22-06-2017 8:46pm

john paul phelan on the floating voter:

https://soundcloud.com/the-floating-voter-independent-ie/the-biggest-miss-by-a-political-leader-ive-seen-in-15-years

danjo-xx · 22-06-2017 9:53pm

If only we could get the numbers up to protest outside Leinster house we might have some chance.

It beggars belief the way that 'doctors' who got the health portfolio all made a
balls of it, what are we on now, No.5 ?

BBM77 · 22-06-2017 10:09pm

Chiparus wrote: »

Varadkar values trust ,
Would you trust John Deasy?

Absolutely. I have said similar a number of times here. After the way he behaved when a spokesperson in the opposition Kenny, Varadkar, nobody is going to promote him.

Chiparus · 22-06-2017 10:13pm

danjo-xx wrote: »

If only we could get the numbers up to protest outside Leinster house we might have some chance.

It beggars belief the way that 'doctors' who got the health portfolio all made a
balls of it, what are we on now, No.5 ?

Name one health minister who has not made a "balls of it"

Max Powers · 23-06-2017 8:46am

Good article from matt shanahan about cardiac care in today's times.

dzilla · 23-06-2017 10:33am

Max Powers wrote: »

Good article from matt shanahan about cardiac care in today's times.

That is a good read, here is the link for anyone interested - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-won-t-the-hse-invest-2-4m-to-save-six-extra-lives-every-year-1.3130062

I often wonder how cost effective is it really for the infrastructure out of hours to get the patients to CUH. Like I think the flow if you have a cardiac arrest is -

- local first responders arrive (dunmore, tramore (order of malta)etc have this I believe all voluntary i presume)
- ambulance arrives (money)
- decision made on Helicopter transfer (money)
- transfer to rugby ground (money) then transfer from location in Cork to CUH (more money) due to absence of helipads
- without the intervention of the helicopter then you have a situation where a ambulance in Youghal and Dungarvan have to be stood down for redundancy purposes in case the ambulance from Waterford isto breakdown mid journey. (more money)

Obviously that is looking at the capital and money matters, there is still the fact you are taking first reponders / ambulance crew and SARS /air ambulance infrastructure away from other issues like traffic accidents and coastal alerts.
I am no way savvy with regards the health service, and I wouldn't even know how to do a cost analysis for the above but it just seems very wasteful.

deisemum · 23-06-2017 12:16pm

In 35 years of doing occupational first aid the one thing that's always hammered home is the importance of the golden/critical hour when it comes to cardiac incidents and having seen the videos of stents being inserted etc, and how it prevents further damage to the heart it's disgusting and disgraceful that patients are sent to Cork.

BBM77 · 23-06-2017 1:40pm

dzilla wrote: »

That is a good read, here is the link for anyone interested - https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-won-t-the-hse-invest-2-4m-to-save-six-extra-lives-every-year-1.3130062

I often wonder how cost effective is it really for the infrastructure out of hours to get the patients to CUH. Like I think the flow if you have a cardiac arrest is -

- local first responders arrive (dunmore, tramore (order of malta)etc have this I believe all voluntary i presume)
- ambulance arrives (money)
- decision made on Helicopter transfer (money)
- transfer to rugby ground (money) then transfer from location in Cork to CUH (more money) due to absence of helipads
- without the intervention of the helicopter then you have a situation where a ambulance in Youghal and Dungarvan have to be stood down for redundancy purposes in case the ambulance from Waterford isto breakdown mid journey. (more money)

Obviously that is looking at the capital and money matters, there is still the fact you are taking first reponders / ambulance crew and SARS /air ambulance infrastructure away from other issues like traffic accidents and coastal alerts.
I am no way savvy with regards the health service, and I wouldn't even know how to do a cost analysis for the above but it just seems very wasteful.

You don’t need to be an expert common sense will tell you that what is happening is nonsense.

Max Powers · 23-06-2017 2:26pm

deisemum wrote: »

In 35 years of doing occupational first aid the one thing that's always hammered home is the importance of the golden/critical hour when it comes to cardiac incidents and having seen the videos of stents being inserted etc, and how it prevents further damage to the heart it's disgusting and disgraceful that patients are sent to Cork.

Too late, politics involved now, by that politics preventing resolution,HSE seem to see Uhw as some sort second class hospital, govt probably don't want to be seen giving in to halligan, don't want to lose face or admit they are were wrong, don't want to admit the report from herity is a bad joke,etc.I think this national review is a possible get out, I'd hope UHW and probably others will get 24hr cardiac care.in the mean time we might have another tragedy or 2.

mountcisco · 23-06-2017 2:28pm

Doesn't seem to be much sympathy in St Luke's Kilkenny

http://kclr96fm.com/st-lukes-clinical-director-says-people-carlow-kilkenny-247-cardiac-care/

Squidvicious · 23-06-2017 2:45pm

mountcisco wrote: »

Doesn't seem to be much sympathy in Kilkenny

http://kclr96fm.com/st-lukes-clinical-director-says-people-carlow-kilkenny-247-cardiac-care/

That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.

Deiseen · 23-06-2017 4:56pm

If somebody had to go from St. Luke's to St. James's right now it would take 88 minutes.

If they were to go to UHW it would take 49 minutes.

That's a massive 40 minutes in the difference and the 88 minutes means the patient would effectively be dead by the time they get to St. James's.

mountcisco · 23-06-2017 5:04pm

Squidvicious wrote: »

That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.

Agree. I don't think it's ok to send a cardiac patient on a 90-minute trip when St. Lukes to Waterford can be done in half that time. Whatever about the politics the quicker treatment is received the better, so he should be shouting for an upgrade at UHW.

Max Powers · 23-06-2017 7:02pm

mountcisco wrote: »

Agree. I don't think it's ok to send a cardiac patient on a 90-minute trip when St. Lukes to Waterford can be done in half that time. Whatever about the politics the quicker treatment is received the better, so he should be shouting for an upgrade at UHW.

There is other stuff/politics/some sort of influencing for some reason going on there i reckon.

Max Powers · 23-06-2017 9:05pm

Fair play to all at vigil outside UHW tonight, was on the news.

Deiseen · 24-06-2017 9:24am

Has anyone brought this up on the KK board? Especially the comments of the doctor in St. Luke's. Kilkenny City is Mid-North and is still 75 minutes from St. James's (on a perfect day) whereas UHW is 45 minutes away and with the ring road and bypass, you'd be more or less guaranteed that.

To say they have 24/7 cardiac care is disingenuous to me and doesn't pain an accurate picture at all for the people of Kilkenny. Carlow is 50/50.

Chiparus · 24-06-2017 10:43am

Squidvicious wrote: »

That's quite disappointing. Surely patients in say, Kilkenny city, would reach UHW faster than St. James'? Now, perhaps patients there could get to St. James' in 90 minutes. As I understand it, the "90 minute" limit only states that if you're not treated in 90 minutes, treatment after that will be of little benefit. Technically, all patients in Kilkenny city may have 24/7 cardiac care. However, they would clearly benefit from cardiac care in UHW.

The problem, of course, is the abolition of the SEHB. St. Lukes clearly needs to be seen to toe a certain line to get whatever crumbs are going from St. James' Hospital. So they may be reluctant to say anything which might lead to a drop in cardiac patients from Kilkenny going to St. James'. No doubt a part of the problem also is that CUH also wants to pull in patients from the South-East to boost it's funding. Having been divided, the South-East is now being squeezed.

You won't get a patient diagnosed and on an ambulance in less than 20 minutes, another 20 mins to unload and get to the cath lab in Dublin, 90 min transfer by ambulance= 130 minutes

All those who opposed the hospital groups have been proven correct.

Help me understand the 24/7 Heart Attack care report

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