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Help me understand the 24/7 Heart Attack care report

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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    This, already noted that it is better to be a patient in one of the centres of excellence where you are going to get a vastly superior service and better outcomes then a local hospital because its that bit closer. People are looking at this in purely one dimensional terms, as if the distance is the sole and only factor.

    It points to nothing more then localism.

    One would like to think so.

    It seems to apply to all other 'centres of excellence' but not Waterford University Hospital, where the services in question are only available 9-5 :eek:

    Can you tell us why?

    They have stopped replying since this has been brought up


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    This, already noted that it is better to be a patient in one of the centres of excellence where you are going to get a vastly superior service and better outcomes then a local hospital because its that bit closer. People are looking at this in purely one dimensional terms, as if the distance is the sole and only factor.

    It points to nothing more then localism.

    One would like to think so.

    It seems to apply to all other 'centres of excellence' but not Waterford University Hospital, where the services in question are only available 9-5 :eek:

    Can you tell us why?

    They have stopped replying since this has been brought up


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Really? I don't think any right-minded person whether from Waterford or elsewhere would begrudge Wexford General or any other hospital a new ED. However, if budgets for investment in UHW were diverted for new ED's in Wexford or elsewhere(oh say St. Luke's KK off the top of my head), contrary to HSE stated policy of developing regional centres of excellence, then that would be a different kettle of fish, wouldn't it.
    Wouldn't vociferous opposition be justified in such a scenario, far fetched and extreeeeeeeeeeeeemely unlikely such a thing might happen?

    Really?

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056866213&page=3


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,627 ✭✭✭✭ road_high


    Chiparus wrote: »
    It goes both ways , if Wexford gets a new Emergency department , the most vociferous opposition comes from Waterford.

    Spot on. You'd only have to log on here to read the screaming and roaring. Look at what happened with Wexford/Waterford VEC...shock horror, the main office was chosen to be in Wexford (where almost 50k more people live) and they were all up in arms with matching chips for each shoulder. No wonder the likes of Halligan get elected.
    But I'm most interested to hear from Doctors in Kilkenny, Wexford and Clonmel hospitals. All appear to have somehow lost interest in WUH and seem happy to sending their patients to either Cork or Dublin. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they're all acting in the best interests of their patients...if they viewed this a huge issue then I'm very surprised to not hear them all speak up singing off the Halligan hymn sheet. I reckon they've come to the conclusion long ago that they're better linked elsewhere rather than waste time with the politicing Waterford engage in


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    road_high wrote: »
    Spot on. You'd only have to log on here to read the screaming and roaring. Look at what happened with Wexford/Waterford VEC...shock horror, the main office was chosen to be in Wexford (where almost 50k more people live) and they were all up in arms with matching chips for each shoulder. No wonder the likes of Halligan get elected.
    But I'm most interested to hear from Doctors in Kilkenny, Wexford and Clonmel hospitals. All appear to have somehow lost interest in WUH and seem happy to sending their patients to either Cork or Dublin. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they're all acting in the best interests of their patients...if they viewed this a huge issue then I'm very surprised to not hear them all speak up singing off the Halligan hymn sheet. I reckon they've come to the conclusion long ago that they're better linked elsewhere rather than waste time with the politicing Waterford engage in

    You could imagine those doctors hold that view.
    Alternatively, as you say, in the absence of proper facilities in WUH they must send their patients elsewhere 'in the best interests of their patients'.
    Would you expect them to do differently?
    Alternatively if the facilities were closer (in WUH) would you expect them to send their patients to WUH - in the best interests of their patients?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    road_high wrote: »
    Spot on. You'd only have to log on here to read the screaming and roaring. Look at what happened with Wexford/Waterford VEC...shock horror, the main office was chosen to be in Wexford (where almost 50k more people live) and they were all up in arms with matching chips for each shoulder. No wonder the likes of Halligan get elected.
    But I'm most interested to hear from Doctors in Kilkenny, Wexford and Clonmel hospitals. All appear to have somehow lost interest in WUH and seem happy to sending their patients to either Cork or Dublin. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they're all acting in the best interests of their patients...if they viewed this a huge issue then I'm very surprised to not hear them all speak up singing off the Halligan hymn sheet. I reckon they've come to the conclusion long ago that they're better linked elsewhere rather than waste time with the politicing Waterford engage in

    The two consultants beside the UHW cardiologist at the recent news conference were consultants from Wexford and Clonmel.
    They know this is bad for the region and bad for patients.


  • Registered Users Posts: 932 ✭✭✭ gw80


    road_high wrote: »
    Spot on. You'd only have to log on here to read the screaming and roaring. Look at what happened with Wexford/Waterford VEC...shock horror, the main office was chosen to be in Wexford (where almost 50k more people live) and they were all up in arms with matching chips for each shoulder. No wonder the likes of Halligan get elected.
    But I'm most interested to hear from Doctors in Kilkenny, Wexford and Clonmel hospitals. All appear to have somehow lost interest in WUH and seem happy to sending their patients to either Cork or Dublin. I can't speak for them but I'm pretty sure they're all acting in the best interests of their patients...if they viewed this a huge issue then I'm very surprised to not hear them all speak up singing off the Halligan hymn sheet. I reckon they've come to the conclusion long ago that they're better linked elsewhere rather than waste time with the politicing Waterford engage in
    How dare people in Waterford fight for services for Waterford,
    I'll presume you're from Kilkenny,
    It's because of people like you that the southeast is in the state it's in now,
    You seem to take glee in your statement about patients not being sent to Waterford,
    Anywhere but Waterford eh,
    Your happy that people are sent to cork or Dublin for emergency treatment?

    If people just accepted that Waterford is the major urban area in the southeast then maybe everyone one in the area would be better off


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    gw80 wrote: »
    How dare people in Waterford fight for services for Waterford,
    I'll presume you're from Kilkenny,
    It's because of people like you that the southeast is in the state it's in now,
    You seem to take glee in your statement about patients not being sent to Waterford,
    Anywhere but Waterford eh,
    Your happy that people are sent to cork or Dublin for emergency treatment?

    If people just accepted that Waterford is the major urban area in the southeast then maybe everyone one in the area would be better off

    Actually if they got rid of GAA, it would be just as effective.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    road_high wrote: »
    But I'm most interested to hear from Doctors in Kilkenny, Wexford and Clonmel hospitals. All appear to have somehow lost interest in WUH and seem happy to sending their patients to either Cork or Dublin.

    If only Dr. Herity or Simon Harris was as interested as you are in their views considering that Dr. Herity never met them and Simon Harris has no interest in doing so either it appears.

    I can't see how you can back up the statement that the regional consultants have lost interest in WUH considering
    1. the statistics in the report clearly show referral patterns from Wexford and Clonmel are to WUH -
    2. this was mentioned in this thread several times
    3. they all appeared in a press conference together in Dublin this week which attracted considerable media attention.

    Now why the kilkenny consultants never seem to have had any interest in WUH is a separate question, but certainly one that shouldn't keep the whole region to ransom over equal access to emergency healthcare - all centres of excellence nationally should be equal!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    Eamon Dunphy was excellent on the Late Late Show this evening.

    He highlighted that
    1. Outside of business hours, the care being offered to heart attack patients is totally inadequate - helicopters to cork were mentioned!
    2. This is a south-east regional issue not a waterford one
    3. This affects hundreds of thousands of people
    4. John Halligan is sincere in his efforts to highlight this disgrace

    10 days on and this is still hitting the headlines.

    Now that a public protest has been called for next Saturday 24th 2-4pm, The Glen, Waterford - it really shows that this issue is not going to go away.

    https://www.facebook.com/events/1396305280398987/
    South East Patients Advocacy Group appeal to the people of the South East to come out and voice your protest at the ongoing erosion of services including cardiology services at Waterford University Hosptial.

    This protest is non political and there will be no political speeches - this is purely a protest by the people whose lives are being affected by the ongoing cuts to services available to them in University Hospital Waterford

    The politicians had their say... the consultants had their say... now it's our turn... let's show them that we are not going to lie down and accept this despicable situation any longer


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    Chiparus wrote: »
    Ok, to have a viable unit you need to have a catchment area of 500k, the hospital groups were based about this except Limerick with a catchment are of 380k,
    Originally Kerry fed into Cork cardiology services, however, Kerry suddenly became linked to Limerick.

    Cork now had a problem as their unit did not have the volume of cases.
    So they need Waterford patients to feed into Cork.
    :rolleyes:


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    As predicted in 2013

    http://www.imt.ie/opinion/garrett-fitzgerald/2013/01/the-wonders-of-democracy.html

    When the talk of long-planned downgrading comes up, the governors will use, by way of persuasion, the argument that there will be a 24/7 availability of stenting for South-Easterners in Cork; ergo, yez are much better off. I would have erroneously read this message to mean that, instead of a part-time stent service in Waterford, yez’ll now have none at all.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain


    Chiparus wrote: »
    As predicted in 2013

    http://www.imt.ie/opinion/garrett-fitzgerald/2013/01/the-wonders-of-democracy.html

    When the talk of long-planned downgrading comes up, the governors will use, by way of persuasion, the argument that there will be a 24/7 availability of stenting for South-Easterners in Cork; ergo, yez are much better off. I would have erroneously read this message to mean that, instead of a part-time stent service in Waterford, yez ll now have none at all.

    Jesus he was absolutely on the ball there. Not even funny just how right he was, 3 years ago!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    O Riain wrote: »
    Jesus he was absolutely on the ball there. Not even funny just how right he was, 3 years ago!


    http://www.imt.ie/opinion/garrett-fitzgerald/2013/01/the-wonders-of-democracy.html

    A very important article

    He even understood the internal Kilkenny politics it seems!
    Clonmel is to change its hind-tit feed from Waterford to Cork. Wexford and Kilkenny are to become sources of nourishment for a couple of Dublin hospitals.
    The Wexford feedback suggests that they are not too pleased down by Slaneyside. Kilkenny is divided on the issue. Some people there have always had a ‘thing’ about Waterford — the ABW syndrome.

    And now the region as a whole must pay the price?


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭ Dunmoreroader


    Chiparus wrote: »
    As predicted in 2013

    http://www.imt.ie/opinion/garrett-fitzgerald/2013/01/the-wonders-of-democracy.html

    When the talk of long-planned downgrading comes up, the governors will use, by way of persuasion, the argument that there will be a 24/7 availability of stenting for South-Easterners in Cork; ergo, yez are much better off. I would have erroneously read this message to mean that, instead of a part-time stent service in Waterford, yez’ll now have none at all.

    Brilliant article. It should be stuck up on every notice board and lamppost in every city, town, village and county in the Southeast.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    Brilliant article. It should be stuck up on every notice board and lamppost in every city, town, village and county in the Southeast.

    It is worth noting that emergency heart attack care isn't the only area where downgrades are proposed for the south east.

    The A&E departments of Clonmel, Kilkenny and Wexford are under threat according to leaked reports from the Trauma Steering group. See discussion underway here and here.

    Particularly striking were the comments of SF councillor Fionntán Ó Súilleabháin, from North Wexford, who described the proposal as 'incredibly stupid and dangerous'.

    'We must stop it before it grows legs - all parties united - and protect A&E services at Wexford General Hospital. Imagine in an emergency trying to get to Waterford General from the Gorey area (& taking New Ross at rush hour into the equation) A terrifying prospect,' he said.

    Let's not forget three things here

    1. getting from wexford town or south wexford to waterford "taking New Ross at rush hour into the equation" is no joke for cardiac emergency cases either. Now they will be all expected to get through the traffic jams in Castlemartyr in East Cork as well!

    2. With just the flick of a pen it might be WUH emergency trauma care that will be axed as well

    3. Minister Harris will blindly accept the findings of the emergency trauma report when it is published. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    Oh look where the HSE is spending the South East Cardiac Care Money :/

    The 1.8 MILLION Helipad mightn't be as priority if South East Cardiac Care patients didn't need to travel half away across the country to get basic healthcare outside of 9-5.

    P.s. Can anyone send me on a link to the independent report justifying a 1.8 million conversion of car park spaces to a helipad?
    Or are independent reports only needed if the South East needs basic emergency care?

    http://www.eveningecho.ie/cork-news/helicopter-landing-site-cuh-needed/2533388/

    HELICOPTER LANDING SITE FOR CUH NEEDED

    FRIDAY, SEPTEMBER 23, 2016
    AN on-site helipad for Cork University Hospital is edging closer to reality, with confirmation that the HSE hopes to lodge a planning application shortly.

    The issue of the ongoing wait for the helipad, which is projected to cost €1.8m, was raised at yesterday’s HSE Regional Health Forum South meeting in County Hall.

    Cllr John Buttimer called on the health service to publish a full report on the development of a helicopter landing site at CUH, noting the timeliness of the motion given the airlifiting of three young children from West Cork to the hospital on Tuesday night after they sustained burn injuries in an explosion in their home.

    The helicopter landed in Bishopstown, as is common procedure, where an ambulance was waiting to transfer the patients to hospital.

    “Recent events in Cork this week and other separate incidents have highlighted the need for a helicopter landing pad at CUH. It is one of the largest university teaching hospitals and one of the largest trauma 1 centres in the country.”

    Addressing Cllr Buttimer’s question, Gerry O’Dwyer, chief executive of the South/South Western Hospital Group, confirmed that the HSE is in advanced talks with the Irish Aviation Authority with a view to lodge planning permission shortly.

    “The position at the moment is we’re in very delicate negotiations with the Aviation Authority because the type of helicopter that is required to land there is the coastguard helicopter which is based in either Shannon or Waterford along with the Air Corps helicopter which is based presently in Athlone.”

    “The position is when we finish the final negotiations with the aviation authority, which are about to conclude shortly, we will then lodge planning permission.”

    Mr O’Dwyer stated that the HSE’s priority is to ensure that patients can go straight to the hospital rather than have to go to any other location.

    “We have a temporary location in Bishopstown at the moment and occasionally we use Cork Airport,” he added.

    “We’re looking closely at the number of car parking spaces that we will have to remove and what locations we can put those in. Our priority is to get the helicopter landing pad in, even if necessary we have to lose spaces.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭ danjo-xx


    DSC01239_zps2b7a0gkq.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Don't forget march today 2pm at the Glen.attendance mandatory


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭ TheQuietFella


    Why march in Waterford when it should be in Dublin!


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    on claire byrne now, rte radio 1


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,990 ✭✭✭ longshanks


    Decent turnout considering the weather. Wonder how much coverage it'll get on the news.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Why march in Waterford when it should be in Dublin!

    Guessing you weren't there anyway.good turnout especially considering poor weather


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,499 ✭✭✭✭ Jamie2k9




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭ TheQuietFella


    Jamie2k9 wrote: »

    You mean Jim Hacker oops, I meant John Halligan made the news!


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭ Dunmoreroader


    Was on the march today and i felt proud of all the people from all over the Southeast that turned out in ****ty weather. Couldn't belueve the first headline I saw in the Irish Times app of "hundreds" protesting in Waterford. WTF? They edited it upwards afterwards but it seemed begrudging....

    Ok now I'm going to bring up the Elephant in the room;

    Reflecting on all of this I keep wondering why if South Tipp General and Wexford General are 4-square behind the campaign what the hell is going on with St Luke's Hospital Kilkenny that they are NOT supporting this campaign for regional services benifiting the people of Kilkenny & Carlow too?????
    Why are they NOT referring patients to UHW but rather the long trek to Dublin? This all goes back to the lack of regional solidarity from St Luke's Kilkenny consultants that led to the breakup of the Southeast health board region in the first place which downgraded WRH (as it was) in favour of CUH and Dub hospitals that has led us to where we are now; lackng investment for regional services which accrue elsewhere without fuss, waiting times going up ever up, marching in the rain for equality.
    Oh dear St Luke's, you're one of the main reasons we are where we are....without a pot to piss in...hope none of your dads have any chest pains before Monday morning; that trip on the M9 north to St. James's/The Mater is loooong compared to the trip south to UHW where we might already have 24/7 cath labs if you had stood shoulder to shoulder with us when the HSE were sniffing around looking to break up the old united SEHB region to suit the Dublin and Cork hospital lobbies.
    SHAME ON YOU, SHAME ON YOU, ****ING SHAME ON YOU.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,495 ✭✭✭ thomasm




  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭ Jambo


    thomasm wrote: »

    I bet nothing will come of the investigation but either way I hope it will promptly focus minds into a new review (or a review of the current review but using the correct risk rating and population data)


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,922 ✭✭✭✭ Johnboy1951


    Jambo wrote: »
    I bet nothing will come of the investigation but either way I hope it will promptly focus minds into a new review (or a review of the current review but using the correct risk rating and population data)
    Gardaí are to be asked to investigate ...

    They have not been asked to investigate.
    They might never be .... depending on legal advice received in the first place.

    Another one of those meaningless headlines predicting the future. :(


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