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Help me understand the 24/7 Heart Attack care report

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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,380 ✭✭✭ danjo-xx


    Health Minister Simon Harris has staunchly backed Dr Herity's findings in the Government-commissioned report that Waterford does not need a second cath lab

    He repeated this on the one o'clock news today saying he is pushing on with the recommendations of the report to upgrade equipment and increase opening hours etc. Made some uncomplimentary passing remark about the march on saturday.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    danjo-xx wrote: »
    He repeated this on the one o'clock news today saying he is pushing on with the recommendations of the report to upgrade equipment and increase opening hours etc. Made some uncomplimentary passing remark about the march on saturday.

    Pretty much to be expected. Baby career politician. He made his mind up ages ago and that was that. If he backs down he'll lose the party fast track he's on.
    I really really hate politicians. Especially career ones. Worst kind of parasites


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 950 ✭✭✭ mickmackmcgoo


    Fine Gael people don't like marches , it makes them uncomfortable when people protest their policies and decisions, so they dismiss the protesters as the loony left etc.
    This Herrity report was a complete stitch up


  • Registered Users Posts: 986 ✭✭✭ Jambo


    This Herrity report was a complete stitch up

    Has any person or any media outlet actually spoken to or interviewed Dr Herrity ? and put to him what would his report say if he had started his report with the actual risk rating and the correct population figures ?

    If not could the public crowdfund a review of the original report using the correct data ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    Jambo wrote: »
    Has any person or any media outlet actually spoken to or interviewed Dr Herrity ? and put to him what would his report say if he had started his report with the actual risk rating and the correct population figures ?

    If not could the public crowdfund a review of the original report using the correct data ?
    I'd say he's been told to keep his head down. Can't let facts get in the way of his review


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ FA Hayek


    Pretty much to be expected. Baby career politician. He made his mind up ages ago and that was that. If he backs down he'll lose the party fast track he's on.
    I really really hate politicians. Especially career ones. Worst kind of parasites

    Baby Career politician? Yes, a 29 year old career politician. lol
    You just don't like politicians.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Baby Career politician? Yes, a 29 year old career politician. lol
    You just don't like politicians.

    I know I don't and I've said as much. Why should I like a chosen career completely based around seeing how much arse you can lick while stabbing the same person in the back?
    29 is a baby in most careers and especially politics, he just has a party fast track that will be clung onto for dear life.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Baby Career politician? Yes, a 29 year old career politician. lol
    You just don't like politicians.

    So what reason exactly do we have in Waterford to like politicians?


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    BBM77 wrote: »
    So what reason exactly do we have to like politicians in Waterford?

    Or in general tbh.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,393 ✭✭✭ Wanderer2010


    Plenty of career politicians in Waterford. Deasy anyone? A ghost and a politician. Beggars belief as to why he keeps on getting on. Waster of a man.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ FA Hayek


    BBM77 wrote: »
    So what reason exactly do we have in Waterford to like politicians?

    Halligan is a politician is he not? To describe a 29 year old as a career politician doesn't make sense. We need younger people in the Dail and as ministers. But sure we can always go down the anti everything road.


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Halligan is a politician is he not? To describe a 29 year old as a career politician doesn't make sense. We need younger people in the Dail and as ministers. But sure we can always go down the anti everything road.

    And there's no reason to like Halligan either. Granted he kicked up a fuss but he done it in a completely amateur way that ensured any reasonable argument to the result could be passed off as parish pump and dismissed.
    29 and his entire working life has been committees, councils and government. What would you call that if not a career politician? He has no intention of ever doing anything else.
    We don't need younger people, older people, men, women, anything. We need people with a spine to make decisions and back up when they're right with proven facts or accept when they're wrong. We don't need talking heads who hide when challenged and talk for 20 minutes without answering anything but unfortunately that's all politicians are in general.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ FA Hayek


    We don't need younger people, older people, men, women, anything. We need people with a spine to make decisions and back up when they're right with proven facts or accept when they're wrong. We don't need talking heads who hide when challenged and talk for 20 minutes without answering anything but unfortunately that's all politicians are in general.

    This is exactly what happened. A report was commissioned and recommendations were acted on. Not his fault that you don't like the answer to it. What you want is a report to be commissioned with the answers already selected.

    So, you say you want one thing, but really you want another thing. You want good transparent governance but deep down you really want goodies for your locality.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    This is exactly what happened. A report was commissioned and recommendations were acted on. Not his fault that you don't like the answer to it. What you want is a report to be commissioned with the answers already selected.

    So, you say you want one thing, but really you want another thing. You want good transparent governance but deep down you really want goodies for your locality.

    Wrong, you know very little to what has been happening outside of the main national headlines....what we have learned thru the briefing document issued, ratings being changed and other dodgy practices like manipulating population figures and other issues is that the report we GOT was a report commissioned with the required answer already selected.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,084 ✭✭✭ FA Hayek


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Wrong, you know very little to what has been happening outside of the main national headlines....what we have learned thru the briefing document issued, ratings being changed and other dodgy practices like manipulating population figures and other issues is that the report we GOT was a report commissioned with the required answer already selected.

    Tinfoil hat stuff here. Basically, it gives you the excuse that any report commissioned if it was God himself that commissioned it would not have been acceptable, unless you got the conclusion would wanted.

    It is also an accusation that the Dr. behind the report is corrupt. Strong allegations there. If you have proof, I suggest you go to the media about it.


  • Users Awaiting Email Confirmation Posts: 950 ✭✭✭ mickmackmcgoo


    FA Hayek wrote:
    Tinfoil hat stuff here. Basically, it gives you the excuse that any report commissioned if it was God himself that commissioned it would not have been acceptable, unless you got the conclusion would wanted.


    Your knowledge of all this is completely based on herritys report and the media . Do you believe everything you read in the media. You can choose to believe the spin if you want but the terms of reference of the report were flawed and ratings were changed due to interference from vested interests who want to protect their own funding and numbers. UHW has a population catchment of over 500,000 for cancer care but not for the cath lab. It's the usual Irish stroke politics .


  • Registered Users Posts: 51,052 ✭✭✭✭ Professey Chin


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    This is exactly what happened. A report was commissioned and recommendations were acted on. Not his fault that you don't like the answer to it. What you want is a report to be commissioned with the answers already selected.

    So, you say you want one thing, but really you want another thing. You want good transparent governance but deep down you really want goodies for your locality.

    Simple way to prove me wrong. Report issued, concerns raised. Show me the evidence that shows the concerns are invalid? If it's that simple it shouldn't be an issue but instead there's silence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    Tinfoil hat stuff here. Basically, it gives you the excuse that any report commissioned if it was God himself that commissioned it would not have been acceptable, unless you got the conclusion would wanted.

    It is also an accusation that the Dr. behind the report is corrupt. Strong allegations there. If you have proof, I suggest you go to the media about it.

    That's a sad excuse for a reply,i gave a few reasons why the report is dodgy, these aren't theories, they're all facts.frankly,I find it depressing that our fellow citizens comment like we here are a bunch of backwater chancers looking for something ridiculous, plus they know zip about what has been and is going on in UHW and the SE apart from the small amount poor reporting they see in national media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,779 ✭✭✭ BBM77


    FA Hayek wrote: »
    This is exactly what happened. A report was commissioned and recommendations were acted on. Not his fault that you don't like the answer to it. What you want is a report to be commissioned with the answers already selected.

    So, you say you want one thing, but really you want another thing. You want good transparent governance but deep down you really want goodies for your locality.

    If everything is as above board as you claim explain why did two regions get 24 hr cardiac care without a medical review and maintained them when cuts were being made again without a medical review in spite of the fact that the south east has a larger population than them both.

    http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/rpp/regionalpopulationprojections2016-2031/

    This is an example of the proven facts of this matter. If you think what is happening is “good transparent governance” you are an idiot.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,473 ✭✭✭ robtri


    BBM77 wrote: »
    If everything is as above board as you claim explain why did two regions get 24 hr cardiac care without a medical review and maintained them when cuts were being made again without a medical review in spite of the fact that the south east has a larger population than them both.

    http://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/rpp/regionalpopulationprojections2016-2031/

    This is an example of the proven facts of this matter. If you think what is happening is “good transparent governance” you are an idiot.

    Our population as a whole is not in question...

    the report is based on people being with 90 mins for a 24 hr Cat lab...
    with Cork and Dublin taking a lot of people within their 90min catchment area , it brings the population baseline numbers in the report down completely


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,227 ✭✭✭ Chiparus


    robtri wrote: »
    Our population as a whole is not in question...

    the report is based on people being with 90 mins for a 24 hr Cat lab...
    with Cork and Dublin taking a lot of people within their 90min catchment area , it brings the population baseline numbers in the report down completely

    The people in north Kilkenny maybe within 90 minutes of a cath lab in Dublin, but there is no way they will be within 90 minutes if brought to st Lukes . It is actually a very bad report as it says that kilkenny and waterford are within 90 minutes travel of cath labs in Dublin and Cork , but the time to load and unload a patient will mean no one who is diagnosed in Kilkenny waterford or wexford will get primary cardiac catherisation with in 90 minutes.

    There is a difference between 90 mins travel time and 90 minuted to cardiac catherisation, No recommendation from the cardiac authorities mention a 90 minute travel time as being the upper limit.


  • Registered Users Posts: 592 ✭✭✭ Dunmoreroader


    Interesting take on our woes in the Sunday Independent magazine. Dr Gueret's analysis is good but his conclusion misses the point about Ardkeen/WRH/UHW being the Regional hospital for Wexford too.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,107 ✭✭✭ O Riain




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    Two more exceptional articles on the continuing struggle for equal access to emergency healthcare.
    First in the Irish Times by Dr. Owens - exceptional article
    http://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/why-waterford-needs-a-second-cath-lab-1.2798584
    These paragraphs are particularly good...
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Cath labs are unequally spread across the country. Some areas have a great many cath labs (Dublin has 20, at last count), others have sparse provision indeed; the South East region has one single cath lab offering to service half a million people.[/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Such is the backdrop to the current crisis in cardiac care in the southeast of Ireland.[/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Wait times for inpatients have ballooned, and inpatient treatment times are frequently in excess of a week, for procedures which international best practice identify as being ideally treated within 24 hours of presentation.[/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Fundamental to the recommendations in the report is the calculation of the effective population who would use the cath lab in the South East. This gave a value of approximately 290,000. This was calculated by counting the numbers of patients actively treated in the unit in an index year (2015). But it is a nonsense to say the effective catchment of a service can be calculated in such a way for a service running at (and frequently beyond) full capacity. You can t just count the number of people in Croke Park on All-Ireland Final day and say that that is the total number of people who actually want to be there. It simply counts the number who were lucky enough to get a seat, and ignores those who went elsewhere because they couldn t get in. [/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]So it is with the Herity report and its calculation of population for the South East cath lab service, which returned a significant underestimate of population size by confusing constrained resource with low activity. [/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]Second, in the Irish Medical Times, calling out the eyebrow raising reaction of some who really should know better acting as if life-saving emergency care is a luxury not a fundamental right and also noting that[/font]
    [font=Arial, Tahoma, Verdana]Finally, it seems the throughput numbers demanded of the Waterford cath lab are not being met in two Dublin centres. Yet these facilities were somehow deemed to be outside the terms of reference of the report and therefore not included in any comparison. Does no one else find that strange?[/font]
    [font=Arial, Tahoma, Verdana]In conclusion, we should reflect upon this. The South East is not some remote desert community deep in the Australian outback. The people who live there deserve the same standard of care when it comes to heart disease as those residing in our nation s capital. In my view, they are truly fortunate to have politicians and clinicians willing to fight for their rights in the face of overwhelming odds. [/font]
    [font=Georgia, "Times New Roman", Times, serif]http://www.imt.ie/opinion/ruairi-hanley/2016/10/standing-up-for-the-south-east.html[/font]


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    The Waterford News and Star this week had the reaction of regional TDs to the campaign for healthcare equality

    Here are some quotes

    John Paul Phelan FG (Carlow-Kilkenny) "I believe that 24/7 care for cardiac patients in the south east is essential and it should be fought for tooth and nail".

    Bobby Alyward FF (Carlow-Kilkenny) "I'm not happy with the Herity Report... I hear a lot about how important this issue is from constituents, particularly in South Kilkenny"

    John McGuinness FF (Carlow-Kilkenny) "Simon Harris needs to ask those who know best i.e. the consultants on the ground/at the coal face"

    James Browne FF (Wexford) "At the end of the day we want as many lives to be saved as possible"

    Paul Kehoe FG (Wexford) "I would like to the see productivity at the existing hospital maximised and upped and then we could review that in a year and then, prehaps, question the findings of the report."

    Brendan Howlin Lab (Wexford) "I favour the best possible cardiac services in the South-East and this must include 24-hour cardiac diagnostic and surgical capabity in UHW. I believe that will require a second cath lab to be provided and that the Minister for Health, Simon Harris should act accordingly".

    The call for equal access to emergency healthcare isn't going away - the next protest is already being planned at the South East Patient Advocacy Group (SEPAG) Facebook page
    https://www.facebook.com/groups/609909642491552/?fref=ts


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    Caught end of radio one news there, seems like yet more people acting behind scenes to undermine UHW


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 215 ✭✭ JMT2016


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Caught end of radio one news there, seems like yet more people acting behind scenes to undermine UHW

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/1009/822638-university-hospital-waterford/

    Yes it was on the six-one news as well - south east 24/7 heart attack care "not a top investment priority" according to the briefing.

    Well what is a "top investment priority" then?

    According to CUH General Manager here, Tony McNamara “The HSE has identified the requirement to re-establish an on-site helipad [at CUH] as a priority for the hospital and the region it serves

    And the region the South-South West Group serves isn't the South East!!

    €2m reinforced concrete for helicopters already landing 5 minutes away from CUH is more of a priority than a 24/7 life saving €2m heart attack laboratory to serve a whole region folks.

    Obviously both are a good idea but there is a more pressing critical need where most of the South East is over 1.5 hours away from a hospital providing adequate heart attack care.

    The heart attack care is supposed to be delivered within 1.5 hours - we can't even get to the hospital front door in that time :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    At this stage, second cath lab not enough long term, there needs to be a SE region grouping reflecting the 500k people UHW covers.anything else and we will be here again soon when cork and others decide to undermine/strip our claim for resources so they can steal them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,444 ✭✭✭ shinzon


    Surprised this hasn't been mentioned yet

    http://www.thejournal.ie/waterford-hospital-cath-lab-government-note-3017659-Oct2016/
    A DEPARTMENT OF Health briefing note for a review into the provision of a second cardiac laboratory at University Hospital Waterford states it was “not a top investment priority”.

    Shin


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    shinzon wrote: »

    Was mentioned last night by jmt and myself


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