Bishops Gate Kilternan

emmacxxx · 11-06-2017 11:20pm

Nika Bolokov wrote: »

1. This is no where near Foxrock
2. I doubt old money people were inspired by the quality of the boundary wall and go so excited they started flinging cash out the car window
3. There's no decent public transport in this area
4. There not low density

The reason this happened and things like it are happening is the legacy of the boom.

Not everyone wasted all the cash they made speculating the last time and there's a lot of people sitting on cash who are happy to pass it on to the kids.

Thus instead of easy credit from Banks free cash from the Bank of Mum and Dad, the remnants of the cash pumped pumped out up to 2007 is now pushing up prices to such an extent that the guts of half a mill is seen as reasonable to live on the side of a mountain.

I live in Foxrock atm so to say it's 'no where near' wouldn't be correct at all. It's a 5-10 min drive away.

Also your comment about there being 'no decent public transport' would also be incorrect. There's a bus stop on your doorstep that goes straight into town and also the luas down the road with park and ride facilities.

The bitterness on this thread is unreal - begrudgery is just so typically Irish!

Lumen · 12-06-2017 5:20am

emmacxxx wrote: »

The bitterness on this thread is unreal - begrudgery is just so typically Irish!

This is a discussion forum, people have different opinions about things.

emmacxxx wrote: »

I live in Foxrock atm so to say it's 'no where near' wouldn't be correct at all. It's a 5-10 min drive away.

Also your comment about there being 'no decent public transport' would also be incorrect. There's a bus stop on your doorstep that goes straight into town and also the luas down the road with park and ride facilities.

In an attempt to bring some facts into the debate about transport, how long does it take to get in to St Stephens Green (for instance) from this development by various modes of transport?

Google says 46 minutes on the 118 bus to Dawson St or 33 minutes on the Luas from Ballyogan, but that's a 35 min (3km) walk from Kilternan. Presumably once the SDZ gets built it'll be standing only (if it isn't already) on the Luas.

So unless you like walking over an hour a day, or are prepared to mix it up with a bike or folding bike, the bus is the main public transport option at around 45 minutes each way.

What's the Park and Ride like to use, practically, with morning traffic?

I do think it's a bit funny how people reject Dublin 15 as an option citing poor transport options (25 minutes from Clonsilla to Docklands) but crawl over each other to pay twice as much for a 45 minute commute in South Dublin.

LirW · 12-06-2017 9:22am

I do think it's a bit funny how people reject Dublin 15 as an option citing poor transport options (25 minutes from Clonsilla to Docklands) but crawl over each other to pay twice as much for a 45 minute commute in South Dublin.

The thing about huge parts of D15 is that it's estate after estate after estate after estate. I viewed a few houses there and gave up on D15 because I couldn't warm up with it in general. And the older parts of Clonsilla can be pretty expensive (granted, it's still cheaper than Kilternan).
I get your point though, for the same amount of money you can buy some pretty sweet houses in Marino or Fairview where you're in town really really fast.

It seems to be a thing with new houses now in general, because wherever new built houses come up and it's not the top end of the market you'll probably see queues from now on. And I honestly don't consider any of the new estates as nice and I've seen a few over the last year.

NinjaTruncs · 12-06-2017 10:00am

Lumen wrote: »

Google says 46 minutes on the 118 bus to Dawson St or 33 minutes on the Luas from Ballyogan, but that's a 35 min (3km) walk from Kilternan. Presumably once the SDZ gets built it'll be standing only (if it isn't already) on the Luas.

The 118 only goes once a day, at least that's how I interpret the timetable, there is also the 44 but that isn't great either as it, takes 60 minutes to get into town and only runs about once an hour, if you're moving into Kilternan, you don't want to be relying on public transport imo, I lived in Stepaside for a number of year and there was a pain too.

Lumen · 12-06-2017 10:03am

LirW wrote: »

The thing about huge parts of D15 is that it's estate after estate after estate after estate. I viewed a few houses there and gave up on D15 because I couldn't warm up with it in general. And the older parts of Clonsilla can be pretty expensive (granted, it's still cheaper than Kilternan).
I get your point though, for the same amount of money you can buy some pretty sweet houses in Marino or Fairview where you're in town really really fast.

It seems to be a thing with new houses now in general, because wherever new built houses come up and it's not the top end of the market you'll probably see queues from now on. And I honestly don't consider any of the new estates as nice and I've seen a few over the last year.

I don't dispute that Kilternan is "nicer" than most parts of D15, I moved out this way myself, but D15 has other things going for it, like the superb (and improving) sports facilities around the NAC. We live in north Wicklow now, but last week my son went on his school tour to the NAC, taking in the various new athletics facilities. That place used to be 5 mins from our house!

People are very attached to where and what they grew up in. I yearn for a red brick terrace cos I grew up in one. I remember taking the kids to an absolutely stunning restored French gite a couple of years back. Having grown up in legoland yellow-brick-and-gravel-dash semi-d they announced that it was "ugly". Morto!

South Dublin grew massively a generation ago, in the last 15 years a lot of the growth has been north and west. I wonder whether people will have the same attachment to D15 and Swords in 20 years time.

markpb · 12-06-2017 10:18am

emmacxxx wrote: »

Also your comment about there being 'no decent public transport' would also be incorrect. There's a bus stop on your doorstep that goes straight into town and also the luas down the road with park and ride facilities.

When people say there "no decent public transport", they mean no public transport that most people would reasonably rely on to get to work. Google Maps say that someone living in Kiltiernan and working in Sandyford (which seems reasonable) would have a choice of four routes, each one taking about an hour and most of them needing a connection. Those options include the once-a-day and no-return-trip 118, the once an hour 44 and the twice an hour 63. Now it's possible that a few people might do that but it's more likely that they'll drive because it takes 20 minutes.

Ironically, if those people ditched their jobs in nearby Sandyford and worked in the south city centre, their commute would only increase by a few minutes but it'll still take an hour whether they drive or take public transport. An hour each way is a lot of commuting plus you're beholden to a few infrequent bus routes which means if you're in work a few minutes late, you could have a 30-60 minute wait just to start your commute home.

This isn't me being bitter by the way, that's one of the things I had in mind when I was buying a house only a few months ago. I was happy to pay a premium for my house because it's proximity to Sandyford (for work) and the Luas (for future work, childrens schools, socialising, etc). I would not be happy to pay the significant premium to live in Bishops Gate where public transport is poor.

LirW · 12-06-2017 10:20am

I think this is probably the reason why I'll never get this really, I'm didn't grow up here and I'm not Irish, I moved 8 times with my mother when I hit the age of 18. In general back home we don't have this kind of attachment to areas because renting for your entire life is not unusual and you get around a bit.
Being together with an irish man who lived in the same house his entire life in Glasnevin it took him months to accept the fact we can't life here because it's too expensive and it was pretty difficult for his parents too.

I met a german lady a few weeks ago living in Goatstown very close to St. Kilians. She's in Dublin for more than 12 years and she genuinely couldn't understand why I wouldn't enroll my boy there, since we're german speaking too. Beside not being able to afford the fees I don't wanna go to the southside everyday and can't afford living there anyway. 2 Minutes later she tells me her rental apartment is too small and they need to move but they can't afford to buy anywhere near Goatstown/Dundrum.

I think by now being so attached doesn't go together with the market and Kilternan shows that. People take a lot to be anywhere near the place they'd grow up. Is Kilternan nice? Yes, I don't find it too bad but I find the development itself very soulless. Is it ideal for commuting? Genuinely not as you said, there are many houses a lot closer to the city in a very similar price bracket, epecially on the northside. A waiting list of 1200 people is completely mental but there must be a reason for it, I might just not see that.

Anyway, regarding the prices, probably the next phase will be a bit more expensive, happened in every single development that I had a look at in person that prices went up 20-50k and I'm curious if it'll be the same when the next phase out there launches.

LirW · 12-06-2017 10:25am

markpb wrote: »

When people say there "no decent public transport", they mean no public transport that most people would reasonably rely on to get to work. Google Maps say that someone living in Kiltiernan and working in Sandyford (which seems reasonable) would have a choice of four routes, each one taking about an hour and most of them needing a connection. Those options include the once-a-day and no-return-trip 118, the once an hour 44 and the twice an hour 63. Now it's possible that a few people might do that but it's more likely that they'll drive because it takes 20 minutes.

Ironically, if those people ditched their jobs in nearby Sandyford and worked in the south city centre, their commute would only increase by a few minutes but it'll still take an hour whether they drive or take public transport. An hour each way is a lot of commuting plus you're beholden to a few infrequent bus routes which means if you're in work a few minutes late, you could have a 30-60 minute wait just to start your commute home.

This isn't me being bitter by the way, that's one of the things I had in mind when I was buying a house only a few months ago. I was happy to pay a premium for my house because it's proximity to Sandyford (for work) and the Luas (for future work, childrens schools, socialising, etc). I would not be happy to pay the significant premium to live in Bishops Gate where public transport is poor.

Just had a look there, Jesus Christ Kilternan to O'Connell street is 10 minutes shorter than the commute my man has from Arklow to Custom House quay where he gets off right in front of his office by bus :eek:

Viscount Aggro · 12-06-2017 10:35am

Is this the place with the council housing right across the road?

Dearg81 · 12-06-2017 10:54am

Richardsons Muff wrote:

No. This is not the norm and there is nothing normal about people driving by half built estates in anticipation of camping outside in order to spend a huge whack of money on a property. In a normal functional property market the developer and estate will try their best to sell a house or whatever and the potential buyer who is entering into a loan agreement of maybe 30 years has time to consider everything. There is nothing 'normal' about this and this abnormality should really be highlighted and protested against instead of embraced but we live in a society where we step over each other ..and that is what happened. Being smug about it doesn't help, it's a fairly himiliating excericse. You got a house...ahead of others who were willing to play ball at a designated launch date, maybe take a back seat and pipe down during this chaos.

It is quite normal now but whether you like it is a different topic. Everyone queuing up to buy the house had months to consider the plans so they had already had made their decision. If you want to see the house before making your final decision then you have to accept that you're more than likely gonna have to queue, put down your deposit which is refundable and then make your decision.

dbagman · 12-06-2017 10:57am

Viscount Aggro wrote:

They could be a hard sell. Its out in the sticks. Check out the small development up the road, theres still a few for sale after many months on market.

What a difference 5 months make.......

Lumen · 12-06-2017 11:01am

Dearg81 wrote: »

It is quite normal now but whether you like it is a different topic

It's not about liking it, it's about the fact that the last time this was "normal now" we were in the midst of an economy-killing bubble, and that has quite rightly imprinted itself negatively on the psyche of the people.

It's fine to argue the toss about whether this time is different, but at least recognise why people are twitchy.

emmacxxx · 12-06-2017 11:02am

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

Is this the place with the council housing right across the road?

If you're talking about the small estate with about 10 houses across from it then yes. I happen to know 2 people who live in there and it's a much older generation in that estate with absolutely no hassle!

dbagman · 12-06-2017 11:03am

Lumen wrote:

I do think it's a bit funny how people reject Dublin 15 as an option citing poor transport options (25 minutes from Clonsilla to Docklands) but crawl over each other to pay twice as much for a 45 minute commute in South Dublin.

Moved to d15 late last year and love it. Have 2 bus routes with in 5 mins walk of my doorstep. The blanch centre a short hop away and as mentioned a decent rail service a 5 minute drive from my house too. House prices aren't too bad in the area and in general it seems a lovely place. Couldn't get over how much house we got for a good chunk less than 300k.

ionapaul · 12-06-2017 11:06am

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

Is this the place with the council housing right across the road?

There's a big social housing estate down at the Ballyogan stop on the Luas, are you thinking of that? That's a decent walk away, but the nearest Luas stop I think.

As someone mentioned earlier, the rush hour Luas is going to get very busy in the next few years; they are bringing in longer trams to deal with it, but once Clay Farm (Leopardstown Valley stop) and Cherrywood (end of the line) ramp up I can see all morning trams being standing room only from Leopardstown Valley onwards, which will make things awkward for me (at The Gallops stop) and the sizable crowds at Glencairn and Central Park.

markpb · 12-06-2017 11:14am

ionapaul wrote: »

As someone mentioned earlier, the rush hour Luas is going to get very busy in the next few years; they are bringing in longer trams to deal with it, but once Clay Farm (Leopardstown Valley stop) and Cherrywood (end of the line) ramp up I can see all morning trams being standing room only from Leopardstown Valley onwards, which will make things awkward for me (at The Gallops stop) and the sizable crowds at Glencairn and Central Park.

NTA have the option of running more trams between Cherrywood and Sandyford which might help.

12-06-2017 11:20am

Lumen wrote: »

It's not about liking it, it's about the fact that the last time this was "normal now" we were in the midst of an economy-killing bubble, and that has quite rightly imprinted itself negatively on the psyche of the people.

It's fine to argue the toss about whether this time is different, but at least recognise why people are twitchy.

I bought off plans a number of months ago from a cancellation.

I've been to a few different viewings of new builds around South Dublin in the past few months leading up to this one. None seemed to have sold out as quickly as Bishops Gate.

sunshine909 · 12-06-2017 11:36am

ronoc wrote: »

None seemed to have sold out as quickly as Bishops Gate.

Well when they only release a handful at a time it's not surprising they sell so quickly!!

We were there on Friday morning, about 9am, we're close to the top of the cancellation list for a 3 and 4 bed house. There wasn't a massive queue like other releases, maybe only 5 people by 9.15am.

EA even said himself if they had had a decent sized development they more than likely wouldn't have even sold them all the first day, or would have just about sold them.

secondtonone · 12-06-2017 12:11pm

Quick tip - Agent works for the seller not the buyer, I managed to secure one of the 3 beds before the official launch by having a friendly chat with the Agent the week before ;-). Didn't cost that much extra and no que. :-)

Big Nasty · 12-06-2017 12:18pm

secondtonone wrote: »

Quick tip - Agent works for the seller not the buyer, I managed to secure one of the 3 beds before the official launch by having a friendly chat with the Agent the week before ;-). Didn't cost that much extra and no que. :-)

Are you saying you bribed the agent to jump the queue? :eek:

LirW · 12-06-2017 12:21pm

secondtonone wrote: »

Quick tip - Agent works for the seller not the buyer, I managed to secure one of the 3 beds before the official launch by having a friendly chat with the Agent the week before ;-). Didn't cost that much extra and no que. :-)

Reminds me of that lady that was in the newspaper a few months ago that she tracked the builder down of an estate she desperately wanted to buy and got all his private details to get her hands on a house first. Nuts.

Viscount Aggro · 12-06-2017 12:25pm

This sounds like corruption to me.

12-06-2017 12:32pm

Big Nasty wrote: »

Are you saying you bribed the agent to jump the queue? :eek:

Has to be a wind up.

If you haven't signed anything the last thing you want to be doing is piss off the agent. Booking deposit is not a binding contract on either party..

jamesthepeach · 12-06-2017 1:03pm

secondtonone wrote: »

Quick tip - Agent works for the seller not the buyer, I managed to secure one of the 3 beds before the official launch by having a friendly chat with the Agent the week before ;-). Didn't cost that much extra and no que. :-)

When I bought my first house queing was in vogue. I slipped the agent €1000.
Worked a treat. Probably cost you more now though. They are terrified of ending up on Facebook

LirW · 12-06-2017 1:16pm

ronoc wrote: »

Has to be a wind up.

If you haven't signed anything the last thing you want to be doing is piss off the agent. Booking deposit is not a binding contract on either party..

Even though, if this is true (which ofc is questionable, 1 post account) the agent can get in trouble over this.

User_Name17 · 12-06-2017 2:38pm

There were approx 30 people there on Thursday before the official release with most people looking for a 3 bed. Only 12 three beds were available so they could have easily sold far more if available. The four beds are probably a much harder sell given the cost though.

User_Name17 · 12-06-2017 2:41pm

sunshine909 wrote: »

Well when they only release a handful at a time it's not surprising they sell so quickly!!

We were there on Friday morning, about 9am, we're close to the top of the cancellation list for a 3 and 4 bed house. There wasn't a massive queue like other releases, maybe only 5 people by 9.15am.

EA even said himself if they had had a decent sized development they more than likely wouldn't have even sold them all the first day, or would have just about sold them.

There was approx 30 people there on Thursday evening before the official launch and most wanted a 3 bed. The could have easily sold far more 3 beds if available, four beds will be a much harder sell given the cost though

User_Name17 · 12-06-2017 3:32pm

markpb wrote: »

When people say there "no decent public transport", they mean no public transport that most people would reasonably rely on to get to work. Google Maps say that someone living in Kiltiernan and working in Sandyford (which seems reasonable) would have a choice of four routes, each one taking about an hour and most of them needing a connection. Those options include the once-a-day and no-return-trip 118, the once an hour 44 and the twice an hour 63. Now it's possible that a few people might do that but it's more likely that they'll drive because it takes 20 minutes.

Ironically, if those people ditched their jobs in nearby Sandyford and worked in the south city centre, their commute would only increase by a few minutes but it'll still take an hour whether they drive or take public transport. An hour each way is a lot of commuting plus you're beholden to a few infrequent bus routes which means if you're in work a few minutes late, you could have a 30-60 minute wait just to start your commute home.

This isn't me being bitter by the way, that's one of the things I had in mind when I was buying a house only a few months ago. I was happy to pay a premium for my house because it's proximity to Sandyford (for work) and the Luas (for future work, childrens schools, socialising, etc). I would not be happy to pay the significant premium to live in Bishops Gate where public transport is poor.

Bishops Gate is about 15 min to Sandyford by bike.

From some of the comments on here you would swear the houses were built up on Sally Gap.

Yes the bus service to Kilternan is not great currently (like lots of places in Dublin) but as the area grows it should improve. The LUAS is just down the road so with a foldable bike and a 10 minute cycle you have easy access to Dundrum, Stephens Green etc.

Lumen · 12-06-2017 4:44pm

User_Name17 wrote: »

Bishops Gate is about 15 min to Sandyford by bike.

From some of the comments on here you would swear the houses were built up on Sally Gap.

Yes the bus service to Kilternan is not great currently (like lots of places in Dublin) but as the area grows it should improve. The LUAS is just down the road so with a foldable bike and a 10 minute cycle you have easy access to Dundrum, Stephens Green etc.

For a regular cycle commuter it's only 10 mins from Kilternan to Dundrum by bike, and 20 mins from Kilternan to St Stephen's Green. The return is slower being uphill.

Still, most people can't be bothered with all that.

I do wonder what the Luas is like in the morning with a folding bike.

edit: unless I'm misreading the map, Bishop's Gate to Wyckham Way is only 5.5km and mostly steep downhill so 10 minutes seems about right.

NinjaTruncs · 12-06-2017 4:58pm

Lumen wrote: »

For a regular cycle commuter it's only 10 mins from Kilternan to Dundrum by bike, and 20 mins from Kilternan to St Stephen's Green. The return is slower being uphill.

Still, most people can't be bothered with all that.

I do wonder what the Luas is like in the morning with a folding bike.

Google Maps claims it 35 minutes by car, no way most people are going to beat a car getting into town on a bike. coming home will be over an hour on a bike and that will be tough, from Dundrum onwards is a real slog.

You may be able to do it in the times you state but most people won't be.

Lumen · 12-06-2017 6:00pm

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

Google Maps claims it 35 minutes by car, no way most people are going to beat a car getting into town on a bike. coming home will be over an hour on a bike and that will be tough, from Dundrum onwards is a real slog.

You may be able to do it in the times you state but most people won't be.

I did say "regular cycle commuter"

I am an unexceptional cyclist but it takes me under an hour and a half (including stopping at all lights) to get from St Stephen's Green to south of Greystones, and that's going over the hills to avoid the N11.

The great advantage of Kilternan is that it's downhill on the way in to work so you only get sweaty coming home.

caviardreams · 12-06-2017 7:45pm

Kilternan to Stephens Green by Google maps is 14k - that would not be doable in 20 mins for the majority of commuters I imagine - I mean you could get caught at a few traffic lights which could be 3-4 mins alone.

youngfarmer · 12-06-2017 8:02pm

Hope that lad is just trying to wind us all up! These houses are definitely over priced and see the 4-beds dropping €100k in the next 5 years when that big development in Cherrywood is completed but then that's more or less the rent we'll end up paying if we stay renting anyways. Prices will keep in going up for another 2 years in dub though anyways.

Got mortgage approval today but not much use to use by looks of things!!

NinjaTruncs · 12-06-2017 8:30pm

A lot of the new cherrywood is going to be rental, I think something like 3/4 is rental.

User_Name17 · 12-06-2017 8:35pm

youngfarmer wrote: »

Hope that lad is just trying to wind us all up! These houses are definitely over priced and see the 4-beds dropping €100k in the next 5 years when that big development in Cherrywood is completed but then that's more or less the rent we'll end up paying if we stay renting anyways. Prices will keep in going up for another 2 years in dub though anyways.

Got mortgage approval today but not much use to use by looks of things!!

I don't think it is a wind up. One of the houses marked as sold was not part of the pre-launch and was not listed in the launch last week so could have been sold directly beforehand.

Expecting the houses to drop 100k is probably hopeful too. The Cherrywood development is only going to meet demand and stabilize prices.With Clay Farm down the road starting at 470k for a 3 bed it looks like the prices are only going up.

youngfarmer · 12-06-2017 8:38pm

In 5 years time I think they will drop but subject to Govt meeting demand which I think Leo will be keen to push on with and is ready to blow noonan's €3bn rainy day fund.

Cherrywood 3/4 rental?! Who will own all the properties, 3000 I think?

Catkelly80 · 13-06-2017 5:25am

Number 37 was not released in phase 1 or 2 but the house is sold. How can this happen?

The_Conductor · 13-06-2017 5:41am

Catkelly80 wrote: »

Number 37 was not released in phase 1 or 2 but the house is sold. How can this happen?

Developer could have held it back for a family member- or any of a long and bewildering list of other possibilities. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it- its not for sale, its not for sale.

SuiteCheex · 13-06-2017 7:45am

youngfarmer wrote: »

Cherrywood 3/4 rental?! Who will own all the properties, 3000 I think?

Hines, the developer will hold on to all the apartment blocks around the town centre as rentals.

https://www.hines.com/about

louser1 · 13-06-2017 8:27am

The_Conductor wrote: »

Developer could have held it back for a family member- or any of a long and bewildering list of other possibilities. I wouldn't loose any sleep over it- its not for sale, its not for sale.

That's exactly what happened. The agent said the developer held onto it for a friend.

Viscount Aggro · 13-06-2017 9:20am

Revenue will be interested in this fact.
A property being sold to a connected party at below market value? CGT liability incoming.

Viscount Aggro · 13-06-2017 9:21am

Correction: CAT, gift tax.

LirW · 13-06-2017 9:22am

Viscount Aggro wrote: »

Revenue will be interested in this fact.
A property being sold to a connected party at below market value? CGT liability incoming.

Nobody was talking about below market value. Maybe it was just held back.

emmacxxx · 13-06-2017 10:14am

Catkelly80 wrote: »

Number 37 was not released in phase 1 or 2 but the house is sold. How can this happen?

I could be wrong but thought that was number 42 that was pre-reserved?

bishops · 13-06-2017 10:31am

There's 30% to 40% big social housing estate down the cherrywood like the Ballyogan .

LirW · 13-06-2017 10:32am

Did the council actually also buy their 10% already?

Viscount Aggro · 13-06-2017 10:35am

Theres 100% social housing across the road. The estate on corner of Glenamuck Road.

Catkelly80 · 13-06-2017 11:50am

emmacxxx wrote: »

I could be wrong but thought that was number 42 that was pre-reserved?

I wasn't aware of 42 but maybe that is also reserved. We were just aware that house 37 wasn't on the list in phase 1 or 2 and when we spoke to the estate agent he said it was sold.

bishops · 13-06-2017 1:42pm

How about the duplex ? That was pre-reserved ?

SuiteCheex · 13-06-2017 3:49pm

bishops wrote: »

How about the duplex ? That was pre-reserved ?

The two blocks of apartments (10 in total) at the front of the development are for social housing.

Bishops Gate Kilternan

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