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New Zoe, new wart?

1356

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭reboot


    With the cheapest Zoe, I'm getting over 90 miles at present with an average charge time in the street 22kva, of 40 mins, everyone is different, but I've suffered range anxiety once in 4 years..In Winter you loose 20%, but the range figure in practice is to be taken with a pince of salt.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭Soarer


    Just read this on Renault.ie.

    Go further with ZOE

    Renault is proud to offer an affordable electric vehicle with a 400km NEDC range on one charge with real life estimates of up to 300km in summer and 200km in winter^^.

    Are they being cautious or optimistic when they reckon you lose 100km range between seasons?
    And is that the same 40kWh battery suggested for the new Leaf?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No one really knows about the leaf but it makes sense it will have 40 kWh but it will most likely be optional. Nissan did demonstrate a working prototype 69 kWh battery but since they're selling off their battery making part of the business it's anyone's guess but it would be safe to assume 40 kWh will be available.

    In very cold climates you might get closer to 200 kms if the temps are below 0 for most of the winter but in our climate the heat pump is very effective with temps below 0 only for a few hrs of the morning.

    I estimate 200 kms at 130 kph to 280 kms 80-100 kph. Based on the leaf efficiency, Zoe is a small bit more efficient so range could be better.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    Guy wrote on Facebook today. Did Dublin-Cork (yes, I know) and had 48km range left. Speed 85-95km/h

    Am I not getting something here? 40kW battery, 266km distance, that is far from great at that slow motorway speed?
    With good sunny day and steady 90km/h skilled IONIQ driver with only 28kW battery could make this trip... What's the problem?

    His actual trip was 249kms, efficiency 14.5kWh/100.

    :( ?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    In to the wind all the way today. If I can see my fuel efficiency affected by headwinds in a petrol car then I could definitely see it happening in an electric.
    Drag co-ef not published but can be assured to be not as good as a Nissan Leaf.
    No articulated lorries to slipstream behind on a weekend.
    Billy-no-mates or a social sort; add 60 to 80kg if the latter.
    Also, may have the prettier but more wasteful larger alloy wheels


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,027 ✭✭✭ei9go


    Mope wrote: »
    Guy wrote on Facebook today. Did Dublin-Cork (yes, I know) and had 48km range left. Speed 85-95km/h

    Am I not getting something here? 40kW battery, 266km distance, that is far from great at that slow motorway speed?
    With good sunny day and steady 90km/h skilled IONIQ driver with only 28kW battery could make this trip... What's the problem?

    His actual trip was 249kms, efficiency 14.5kWh/100.

    :( ?
    I applaud his patience and endurance but seriously this is exactly why EV's sales will not take off until you can do this at 120 kph.

    I reckon, based on my own experience in the 22 kWh Zoe that the 40 kw will be pushed to do the length of the M9 on 40 kWh at 120 kph.

    60 kWh is where you need to be in Ireland.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The different between 110 and 120 kph is small .

    The 40 kWh should still do 200-220 km at 120 Kph. I guess I'll find out soon enough. I just hope its the one with 45 Kw Charger.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    40 kwh is fine if you can get to 80 % in 20 mins , but having more capacity means greater independence from the network.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    Mad. When are you testing it?
    Cannot wait for your review. All journalist bs is far from what EV owner can tell about new car


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    The different between 110 and 120 kph is small .
    Superminis have the aerodynamics of a brick. The difference between 110 and 120kmph is quite large.
    I could get similar fuel economy out of a v6 petrol saloon compared to a Panda on a trip I used to do east to west in Ireland regularly on the M4/M6
    The Zoe isn't a Tesla, Leaf or some of the new German ICE saloons with a drag co-efficient in the low .twenties.

    His test is unfair on the Zoe; the Zoe is an urban commuter, not a long distance vehicle.

    It doesn't help either that it is actually taller than the Clio on which it is based.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I could live with 1 stop on that trip. I wouldn't be likely to do it without a stop anyway for the loo or the shop.

    I drive Donegal to Cork once a year and with that mileage I could do it with 2 stops. Currently I just hire a car for the trip. Did it once in the Leaf and it was a pain in the hole.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    I agree, the test is unfair. It's like using 1.2l Petrol small car for work related travels between far cities. The car isn't really build for it.

    I'd love to see efficiency car shows after 1000km or so, or at least 500. With as much of normal driving as possible.
    I still think it's good thing that Zoe has 40kW in such a small factor.

    Good future is waiting us, with better ranged EVs. I will most likely change myself if I see logic in new better EV.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Has anyone tested the Q90 ze40?? If so, what were your fast charging experience, did the car charge correctly at 43kW?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    737max wrote: »
    Superminis have the aerodynamics of a brick. The difference between 110 and 120kmph is quite large.
    I could get similar fuel economy out of a v6 petrol saloon compared to a Panda on a trip I used to do east to west in Ireland regularly on the M4/M6
    The Zoe isn't a Tesla, Leaf or some of the new German ICE saloons with a drag co-efficient in the low .twenties.

    His test is unfair on the Zoe; the Zoe is an urban commuter, not a long distance vehicle.

    It doesn't help either that it is actually taller than the Clio on which it is based.

    I was referring to the time V speed, the time difference between 110 and 120 Kph isn't much.

    The potential for the Zoe at slower speeds though is substantially higher than the Ioniq.

    At 15 Kwh/100 kms would get around 266 Kms which should be achievable at 100-110 Kph.

    My average in the Ioniq average in the Ioniq after 207 Kms was 15.3 Kwh/100 Kms at 110-100-80 Kph and some 60 Kph on A, B, C roads. I know some harp on about it's efficiency but it's not that great, perhaps at higher speeds it has the advantage but not so much at slower speeds. And that was no hypermiling, normal driving.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    No. lower speed doesn't help.
    There are prevailing winds in Ireland and if you driving in to them then your economy suffers.
    110kmph driving in to a 20kmph wind = not good consumption.

    trust me. I've had enough trips heading east -west and west -east in Ireland on straight roads with no traffic to know.
    Nothing to do with my time during those drive except look at the trip computer.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yeah, lower speeds help winds or no winds, on a windy day lower your speed and what happens ? on a calm day lower your speed and what happens ? yes your range improves. Lower speed means less energy regardless of wind, now the same speed and higher wind, that's a different story.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    http://www.met.ie/latest/yesterday.asp
    wind speeds yesterday

    about 16 to 17 kmph and prevailing winds come from the west.
    drop speed to 110kmph and your airspeed is still effectively 126kmph

    This is something which all all hypermilers account for in their calculations


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    My average in the Ioniq average in the Ioniq after 207 Kms was 15.3 Kwh/100 Kms at 110-100-80 Kph and some 60 Kph on A, B, C roads. I know some harp on about it's efficiency but it's not that great, perhaps at higher speeds it has the advantage but not so much at slower speeds. And that was no hypermiling, normal driving.

    That is some weird stats you have there. 15.3 average for 207km of trip which never was covered doing 120, always lower than that. You must have been always against wind and intentially breaking and speeding up just for fun?
    207km is my typical 2 days ofcommute +/-. And its always motorway and m50, no city driving. I never go above 13 even if some mornings im late to work and get sport mode on for some overtakes. Not that it matters much now, but just to show how much variables can be out there.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mope wrote: »
    Mad. When are you testing it?
    Cannot wait for your review. All journalist bs is far from what EV owner can tell about new car

    I'm hoping to pick it up Tomorrow evening but they never called to confirm, I'll call them tomorrow.

    Plan about 500 kms trip Wednesday. If it's not available Wednesday will have to be another time.

    I'll give as good a review as I did the Ioniq, but someone merged my thread and buried it with the "Ioniq " thread.

    Some Ioniq owners dismissed my economy at 15.3 Kwh/100 kms over 207 Kms but it was an honest to God review and I had nothing to gain by posting non realistic BS economy figures.

    I drove in a bit of rain and Unkel said it was a torrential downpour, temperature was 10 deg C and Unkel said it was Artic conditions, drove in some wind and Unkel said it was a hurricane ! :D

    As if I was trying to falsify my results ! :eek:

    I did say that by the time I got to work that the economy showed about 2-2.5 Kwh more efficient than the leaf for the same conditions.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    :) one post above I've asked about your 15kW too. Anyhow!
    Hope that you enjoy the car. Do you have it for a week?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Mope wrote: »
    You must have been always against wind and intentially breaking and speeding up just for fun?

    No I wasn't always against the wind or intentionally braking and speeding up for fun, I'm not in love with the Leaf, therefore have nothing to gain by saying the ioniq didn't get better efficiency than it did. If it had got 12 Kwh/100 Kms then that's what I would have reported and shown on the efficiency monitor but it didn't.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    And I believe you, but I am curious to see what influenced such results. Anyhow! Hope you get Zoe for a good spin.
    Googled stats yesterday, its 86 or 89hp and 220 something nM. Not sure about weight, but I hope car is fun to drive :)


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think a factor of everything, especially the fact I've well got over the efficient driving thing and seeing how much I can get from it, but I wasn't trashing it either, that's why I call it a good honest to God test drive of more normal driving.

    I'll drive the Zoe as normally as I can, 200 kms to Ennis Via Portlaoise from Carlow, or 187 Via Abbeyleix , whatever way I go it will be about 40 Kms to the M7 then motorway until Limerick , though I normally go through Killaloe to avoid Limerick. Trip will be 188 to 200 kms to Ennis. Some lunch while I charge at 22 Kw then on to the Cliffs OF Moher unless the weather is bad.

    A charge up in 2 hrs should give me the majority of the 40 Kwh , I'll need the time for food and to let the boys stretch their legs.

    If anyone knows of anywhere fun to take a 1.5 and 3 year old in Clare let me know. The Cliffs come to mind but it's not exactly exciting for Children of that age.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,130 ✭✭✭mel.b


    Moher hill pet farm in liscannor http://www.moherfarm.com/

    Aliwee caves? Never been there though so don't know how suitable for little ones.

    If it's a nice day just a trip to Lahinch beach? If you drive past the course golf and park just past the bridge the beach there is accessible regardless of the tide.

    Dromore woods near Ruan for a walk in the woods. The castle trail is nice and around 2.5km long.

    Thats a few ideas off the top of my head.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    My average in the Ioniq average in the Ioniq after 207 Kms was 15.3 Kwh/100 Kms

    Eh, yeah. Your one day test drive. In the winter in cold and rain and wind. And you still believe those figures more than what all of us Ioniq owners are reporting after thousands of kilometers each in all sorts of circumstances? You must be mad, lad ;)


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  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Lol the I weather the last few weeks isn't so different Unkel.

    This is why I said real life test because under the same conditions Ioniq drivers are getting nearly 210 kms I'd get 140 in the leaf.

    We have mostly unfavourable conditions in Ireland.

    I don't hear any Ioniq owners offering me their car for a week so I can test again ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,136 ✭✭✭✭KCross


    And back to the Zoe!...

    Not sure if this was posted anywhere else on the forum but if you have a 22kWh Zoe (battery owned) you can now pay to have it upgraded to the new 40kWh pack for €10k!


    That is a bit saucy isn't it? Presumably they get your 22kWh pack back as well!

    With battery prices dropping I would have expected it to be better priced than that even accounting for the fact that its not in Renault's best interest for you to upgrade at all... ultimately they want to sell you a new car.... but still, €10k!


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Imagine Toyota make you pay about 2,500 for a NiMh 1 Kwh battery if the old one fails !

    Nissan will let you install a new 24 Kwh LI battery for 5,500.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Zoe is a no go for Tomorrow, no one will call me back so I've lost interest now.... Stuff it. I called yesterday and twice today.

    Oops I meant Friday and today.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    Look what I found at Turvey FCP. Had spare time so I said why not top up here :)

    Looking at FCP dash I guess it is not 40kW version as was pulling only 21kW? I know very little about Zoe.
    And didn't see any lights to indicate state of charge on the car itself


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭Evd-Burner


    Mope wrote:
    Looking at FCP dash I guess it is not 40kW version as was pulling only 21kW? I know very little about Zoe. And didn't see any lights to indicate state of charge on the car itself


    It looks like the one from the garage across the road.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    Mope wrote: »
    Look what I found at Turvey FCP. Had spare time so I said why not top up here :)

    Looking at FCP dash I guess it is not 40kW version as was pulling only 21kW? I know very little about Zoe.
    And didn't see any lights to indicate state of charge on the car itself
    Hmm
    There were reports that the q90 (43kW model) didnt support above 30-33 kW charging in reality, but no reports of slow charging on the R90


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    KCross wrote: »
    if you have a 22kWh Zoe (battery owned) you can now pay to have it upgraded to the new 40kWh pack for €10k!

    That's madness! Did I not see on Renault's French website a few days ago that they offer it over there for €3.5k?

    Edit - I didn't read the small print. It is only €3.5k to upgrade the battery from 22kWh to 41kWh, but only if you're on battery lease. And your monthly lease will go up. Could still be a good option for someone.

    From the Renault.fr website they rather honestly give the car a 400km NEDC range (that's official) and a 300km summer range and 200km winter range. That's for France, so it explains why the Zoe 41kWh had a very poor range during winter tests in Norway by Nyland - where it is a good bit colder again. Wouldn't be a great winter car here either. Poor range for the price and not a very efficient car. Looks lovely though :D


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    That's madness! Did I not see on Renault's French website a few days ago that they offer it over there for €3.5k?
    That's for leased batteries only, with an increased monthly lease for the 41kWh


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I disagree, Zoe 40 Kwh is rather perfect for Ireland, relatively mild climate and tonnes of 22 KW AC stations.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    It is if it was €20k, not €27k. That's mad money for a basic low spec supermini

    But maybe it just hit the sweet spot for some people who only need a small car and do long distances?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well, some might argue that having the ability to charge in 2 hrs the guts of 40 Kwh from most of the AC points and having twice the range is worth it. Drop the speed a bit and the potential for 270-280 kms becomes reality.

    That's over twice what the 24 Kwh Leaf can get at that speed.

    I do too like the adaptive cruise in the Ioniq. And the Ioniq is nicer inside and the android and apple auto is cool. The Zoe is a nice looking car even if it is small.

    Those crunching up the miles should definitely consider the 40 Kwh Zoe with 45 Kwh charger of course.


  • Registered Users Posts: 452 ✭✭Mope


    Evd-Burner wrote: »
    It looks like the one from the garage across the road.
    You are right, just before I was finished two lads came from the garage across, one jumped in Zoe and went to park it in garage.

    @Mad: No news re Zoe? Didn't get it yet?


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No Autoimage Carlow never bothered to confirm the test drive, despite calling them 3 times and they telling me they'd call me back , I'm not impressed. Even a lot of good publicity on Boards.ie and facebook wasn't enough to convince them to be nice lol , Oh well. Very few sales people are committed like Paul in Barlo Kilkenny that's for sure, they want easy sales, Dacia........ they're obviously not interested in chasing people to buy electrics.

    I suppose they're not bothered in a expensive (clio) anyway and will see most clios sold being 1.2 basic petrols costing 15K , another 13 K will buy some people many years of petrol. The 22 Kwh Zoe doesn't have the range to convince many to change to electric either and it will still cost more than 15 K.

    I could be changing jobs soon and will have a bit of time off , if so I will try get a 40 Kwh form somewhere, but Autoimage is about 4 Km away it's convenient.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Zoe managing 426km hypermiled on one charge :cool:



    41kWh battery doing 9.6kWh/100km not quite as good as the Ioniq's 28kWh battery doing 6.6kWh/100km, but the range is further than Ioniq's hypermiled 402km


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 993 ✭✭✭737max


    They're on the 17 inch alloys; that would have cost them 4 to 8% in range.


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    lol all this hypermiling is ridiculously funny. Who drives like this in reality ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,615 ✭✭✭grogi


    lol all this hypermiling is ridiculously funny. Who drives like this in reality ?

    Three years ago there was a lad here that was saying that there was plenty of occasions to do hypermiling. But then he was driving a Prius...

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=89796369&postcount=15


  • Posts: 21,179 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hypermiling to me didn't involve driving at those speeds or anything close.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,452 ✭✭✭✭DrPhilG


    I used to go to great lengths at the start to increase my range.

    Then I realised that if you need the range, hypermile.

    If you don't, (which is 90% of the time) enjoy the damn car and who cares what range I get.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 18,509 CMod ✭✭✭✭The Black Oil


    https://twitter.com/ruralleafowner/status/897781921673080832

    He posts a video about his Leaf around once a month. Thinking about changing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    How long on a rapid?
    1hour 5 mins to 80% if you have a Q model, and approx 1hour 40minutes for the R.

    Hardly "rapid" to be fair. I would bet the farm on the next Zoe (as this is just a facelift) coming with CCS DC and 22kW AC.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Over an hour is not rapid. A charge from near empty to 80% in about 15 minutes is rapid imho and will hopefully improve a lot over the next 5 years.

    Ioniq can go from 15%-80% in 15 minutes on some of the current chargers (like the one in Midway). 5-90% on the slowest fast chargers in Ireland takes about 30 minutes. Hardly rapid but faster than any other EV (the relatively small capacity helps there of course)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,217 ✭✭✭✭ELM327


    unkel wrote: »
    Over an hour is not rapid. A charge from near empty to 80% in about 15 minutes is rapid imho and will hopefully improve a lot over the next 5 years.

    Ioniq can go from 15%-80% in 15 minutes on some of the current chargers (like the one in Midway). 5-90% on the slowest fast chargers in Ireland takes about 30 minutes. Hardly rapid but faster than any other EV (the relatively small capacity helps there of course)
    +1
    Ioniq is the first "rapid" charging car. The 30kWh leaf is not far behind in all accounts.

    But I believe there are massive improvements coming aswell and what we know as rapid today will be derided in future years.

    The difference with the Zoe is that it's a bigger battery but with old hat charging speed. 1 hour is acceptable after 400 km for me, but it's not worth shouting from the rooftops.

    I would bet that for any distance greater than 300km an Ioniq would be years faster than a Zoe despite being >25% less capacity, due to the charging speed.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 65,709 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    And the top speed :D


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