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New Zoe, new wart?

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    unkel wrote: »
    What / who are those sources BTW? :)

    I work for a defence contractor. Serious remote power requirements these days. If I said any more I'd have to kill you :cool:

    :p




  • Nuclear batteries ! :D


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    cros13 wrote: »
    My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack with quote "room for expansion, both physically and in density".

    LG Chem the company supplying the 60kWh battery in the Bolt and the 40kWh in the Zoe. So perhaps a sign of things to come to the Ioniq.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    bk wrote: »
    So perhaps a sign of things to come to the Ioniq.

    The Ioniq is using an older cell design/chemistry than the Bolt and Zoe. I suspect the bump in range Hyunsai is hinting at for 2018ish is the newer chemistry and filling out some of the empty space in the central tunnel with a slightly larger pack.




  • Nissan will most likely use an LG Chem battery if they do indeed get out of the battery business.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭ samih


    I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.




  • I'd rather they just make larger more practical , more powerful electric cars to be honest, even if they're not as efficient.

    Stick in a good size battery !


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Stick in a good size battery !

    But that's expensive.

    You can make a new Leaf with a 50kWh battery, but if that car doesn't go 1km further than an Ioniq with a 28kWh battery, then what's the point of that?

    You mix up efficiency in the form of electricity costs per km of running an EV, which nobody cares about, with the true importance of efficiency: range, range, range!

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!





  • My point being that manufacturers are only mainly creating super mini or small hatch cars , that's fine for a lot of people and it's also not fine for a lot of people.

    Yes creating a larger EV with a larger battery will be more expensive but a 7 seater Galaxy is a ridiculous price but people buy them because they need the practicality of such a vehicle.

    The model choice for electrics is far too poor !


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Agreed but we are just not there yet. For a boxy SUV / MPV full EV to compete with ICE, even Hybrid or PHEV, it will need about 60-80kWh battery and be about the same price as them*. That's simply at least another few years away...

    *after subsidies

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 21,145 Mod ✭✭✭✭ bk


    samih wrote: »
    I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.

    Tesla already know all about, Model 3 has a slightly lower drag then the Ioniq (but then the S is a much larger and heavier car) and the Model 3 will supposedly have the lowest drag of any mass production car (The EV1 was lower again, but two seats only and wasn't mass produced).

    I suspect Nissan knew this too, but got a little stuck since the Leaf has such a poor drag cd and their own battery manufacturing has fallen way behind LG Chem, Panasonic, etc.

    I suspect Nissan needs to go back to the drawing board, a brand new car with a low drag cd more similar to the Ioniq and Model 3 along with third party batteries.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    bk wrote: »
    the Model 3 will supposedly have the lowest drag of any mass production car

    The more I hear about the Model 3, the more impressed I am. It's a pity it's still several years away before we can buy one over here. And that won't be a budget car here, probably around the €40k mark after all subsidies

    bk wrote: »
    Tesla already know all about, Model 3 has a slightly lower drag then the Ioniq

    I presume you mean Model S? Afaik both have a cd of 0.24, which is about as good as it gets in any production car atm. The model S is obviously not a mass production car but as you say the Model 3 will be

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,795 ✭✭✭ samih


    The IONIQ is extremely efficient also on low speeds compared to the other BEVs. There seems more to it than just the cd value.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    unkel wrote: »
    Aerodynamics is a huge part. Nobody tests the range of an EV without doing at least a good bit of motorway driving, usually at about the speed limit. This is where the Ioniq excels. I'd say the Ioniq in summer will do about 200km at 120km/h. The 30kWh Leaf (a more expensive car with less toys) probably no more than 130-140km (just making these figures up, but I'd challenge anyone to test this and prove I'm way off the mark)

    And none of us know much about how good the Ioniq is at regen, but my guess is that it is pretty good there too.

    2 german lads took the leaf (30kW) down an autobahn @ 120km/h. Got 138km out of it with 8% left when they pulled off. if i remember right it was 1c and they had a/c on at 21c.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    So my guess was pretty ballpark then :)

    That's actually not bad at all, given the low outside temps. Wish someone would do side-by-side tests like that with the most popular EVs so we could compare better. The Czech test is the only real direct comparison we have, isn't it?

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    And still we wait for any info from Renault Ireland. They said they'd send me out a brochure and I'm still waiting. Doesn't really inspire me with confidence.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    I had a request in as well... promised a callback from the person handling the Zoe twice and they still have not called.

    The launch is supposed to be this month.... you'd almost think they weren't interested in selling EVs :rolleyes:




  • cros13 wrote: »

    The launch is supposed to be this month.... you'd almost think they weren't interested in selling EVs :rolleyes:

    No , most Renault dealers are not interested in selling the EV. I remember on the FB Group people telling their experience where dealers were almost putting their arm around them and saying ,as the steer them away ( look at this lovely "Diesel" car, I think this would suit you a lot better ) or something like that.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    I've linked this thread to renault Irelands twitter.. Lets see if we get a response.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    Their response:" Planning to have the ZOEi with dealers by May. Website will be updated soon and happy to receive any brochure requests via DM."


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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,702 ✭✭✭✭ BoatMad


    samih wrote: »
    I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.

    Absolutely , I was told it could potentially delay new gen leaf. Hydundai pulled a surprise to the whole EV world with the performance of the iconiq

    Add a bigger battery to that efficiency and you have a very serious EV


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,612 ✭✭✭ grogi


    I went to Renault.ie site today - they quote ZOE from €23490 with full battery purchase...

    I guess it is new, previously it was offered only with battery rental, right?


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    Expensive. Unless there is scrappage / a substantial discount available?

    Top speed of only 135km/h. That's even lower than the original Leaf (144km/h). That's the kind of top speed economy cars had 50 years ago :rolleyes:

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,612 ✭✭✭ grogi


    unkel wrote: »
    Expensive. Unless there is scrappage / a substantial discount available?

    Top speed of only 135km/h. That's even lower than the original Leaf (144km/h). That's the kind of top speed economy cars had 50 years ago :rolleyes:

    Expensive, but with 41kWh battery... 400 km in NEDC test (280 km for Ioniq as far I can google)

    Nevertheless it seems Renault officially ditched the battery rental scheme.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    NEDC range is pretty much irrelevant. 300km on EPA range, which is very good (Ioniq 200km), but the practical figures in James and Kate's test (220km winter in UK) were very close to the Ioniq (200km winter in UK iirc). And not the 50% more range you'd expect with a car that has a 50% bigger battery (even though the car is a lot smaller)

    But for sure it will suit some people.

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,909 ✭✭✭ ewj1978


    So, 28k for the mid range 40kw and 30k for the top of the range. Both of these include Battery purchase. Thats saucy prices imho.




  • Sure is a high price, most people will see the Zoe as a Clio and you can buy a petrol clio for half the price at about 15K and have what, 500-600 kms range.

    Zoe is a small slow car, the extra range would be nice but it's still way too expensive for Irish buyers for what it is. They could easily install a 200 HP motor and make it more desirable. Electricity is too cheap , so why install a low HP motor ?, it's not like you have to try increase fuel economy by installing under powered engines, so what, you drive the car harder you loose some range ? big deal, at least I'd have the choice, I'd imagine the 40 Kwh would be slower again with the extra weight.

    If it cost maybe 20K then they'd be on to a winner.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    +1 Jensen Melodic Snowstorm

    They should have either made it cheaper or they could have turned it into the first desirable EV hot hatch. A missed opportunity.

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



  • Registered Users Posts: 3,270 ✭✭✭ cros13


    Well they still have the old 22kWh for €23k... so you have a choice.

    Prices will come down in time anyway. Zoe's are doing good volume in France and Germany.


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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 60,490 CMod ✭✭✭✭ unkel


    The 22kWh Zoe is €17k in France. It would sell like hotcakes over here for that price too. €23k for a slowish supermini is just too much. That's the price of a family size car.

    11PM: 15kW o'clock!



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