2700s return

L1011 · 29-05-2017 10:56PM

Have the 2600s had any overhauls - mechanical or cosmetic - as they're getting on a bit now?

tabbey · 30-05-2017 09:46PM

L1011 wrote: »

Have the 2600s had any overhauls - mechanical or cosmetic - as they're getting on a bit now?

They have certainly had their seats replaced,nice suburban seats in place of the original high back seating.

As they have low mileage, trundling around Cork Harbour mostly just above sea level, they are not overworked. Of course when they originally entered service on the Arrow service Dublin - Kildare, and subsequently on Dublin outer suburban routes, they had to work a bit harder. They are well built and given regular maintenance as per manufacturers instructions, they should last many more years.

I do enjoy my occasional trip on the 2600s on the East Cork lines.

Jamie2k9 · 30-05-2017 11:56PM

L1011 wrote: »

Have the 2600s had any overhauls - mechanical or cosmetic - as they're getting on a bit now?

They have I think, certainly modifications over the years. Can't see any rush in getting rid of them.

I'm not sure compatibility is really an issue if you have the 2600s in Cork, 2700s in Limerick and 2800s in Dublin.

From a cost prospective it would be and I think IE will use the refurb to try where possible to match up parts.

GM228 · 02-07-2017 12:05AM

GM228 wrote: »

Following several delays it looks likely the tender will issue shortly once board approval of the actual tender specification is completed.

Tender to issue in the next forthnight.

Apart from complete overhaul and fitment of the DRA system, new PIS systems are to be fitted aswell as a real time fuel, condition, and positioning monitoring system and they are to be made fully compatible with the existing DMU fleets (2600, 2800s and 29000s) apparently.

Jamie2k9 · 02-07-2017 12:09AM

positioning monitoring system

This is?

they are to be made fully compatible with the existing DMU fleets (2600, 2800s and 29000s) apparently.

I knew this would be a top priority!

GM228 · 02-07-2017 08:33PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

positioning monitoring system

This is?

GPS tracking system.

tabbey · 02-07-2017 10:45PM

GM228 wrote: »

Tender to issue in the next forthnight.

Apart from complete overhaul and fitment of the DRA system.

what is the DRA system?

Fred Swanson · 03-07-2017 12:10AM

This post has been deleted.

loyatemu · 03-07-2017 09:59AM

GM228 wrote: »

new PIS systems are to be fitted aswell

why bother, when they're not switched off, they're showing the wrong information.

goingnowhere · 03-07-2017 10:50AM

GM228 wrote: »

GPS tracking system.

Bit more complicated, its a comprehensive train monitoring package from Nexala which is fitted on the 22k and 29k fleets

GM228 · 04-07-2017 10:15AM

goingnowhere wrote: »

Bit more complicated, its a comprehensive train monitoring package from Nexala which is fitted on the 22k and 29k fleets

I was replying to the question of what "positioning monitoring system" was.

And no it isn't Nexala (Nexala no longer exist) or a similar type of system.

The Nexala R2M system fitted to the 22000s and 29000s is a real-time remote diagnostic and monitoring system, the proposed system for the 2700s is likely to be the same system currently being fitted to the 2800s (followed by the 2600s, 071 and 201s) which monitos fuel intake, fuel volume and GPS position, there is no remote diagnostic with the 2800 system.

end of the road · 04-07-2017 01:48PM

GM228 wrote: »

I was replying to the question of what "positioning monitoring system" was.

And no it isn't Nexala (Nexala no longer exist) or a similar type of system.

The Nexala R2M system fitted to the 22000s and 29000s is a real-time remote diagnostic and monitoring system, the proposed system for the 2700s is likely to be the same system currently being fitted to the 2800s (followed by the 2600s, 071 and 201s) which monitos fuel intake, fuel volume and GPS position, there is no remote diagnostic with the 2800 system.

why aren't they fitting all those with a remote diagnostic system? cost, or lack of availability of a suitable system that would be compatible?

Jamie2k9 · 23-07-2017 12:50PM

RiggsRants wrote: »

Hi all (I'm new to boards) had a good read of that report during the week and it certainly throws up a few interesting figures. Did IE not get and offers in 2012 when they put the 2700s up for sale or what sort of money were they expecting for them?

Probably not, it's more less useless selling rolling stock because of the Irish gauge difference to most of the world.

Losty Dublin · 24-07-2017 08:06PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Probably not, it's more less useless selling rolling stock because of the Irish gauge difference to most of the world.

The gauge doesn't materially affect the sale as new wheels can easily be fitted to fit the local gauge. What affects their selling potential is the price to move them from Ireland.

L1011 · 25-07-2017 08:02AM

Narrowing the gauge on a DMU would be extremely challenging due to the underslung equipment. The reverse is significantly easier but there's not many >1600 mm operators either

Jamie2k9 · 25-07-2017 03:19PM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

The gauge doesn't materially affect the sale as new wheels can easily be fitted to fit the local gauge. What affects their selling potential is the price to move them from Ireland.

Maybe a point but they would of been able to get new trains made when you consider the cost of buying, cost of removal, cost of refitting. They never had a chance of getting sold, first question I would ask is why they were removed by IE if I was a prospective buyer.

Yea unless they were specifically targeting franchises in Australia or Brazil what was the point in ever putting them up for sale. im assuming as the oldest in the fleet the 2600s would be the next to be scrapped/sold if IE invest in new trains?

Outside the middle cars for the ICR's, I suspect new commuter stock may well be focused on DART within 10 years if expanded towards Maynooth and Ballybricken. A lot of the DART fleet will be 40 years old in the next 6/7 years and need replacing.

Losty Dublin · 25-07-2017 07:22PM

L1011 wrote: »

Narrowing the gauge on a DMU would be extremely challenging due to the underslung equipment. The reverse is significantly easier but there's not many >1600 mm operators either

It isn't actually challenging. Bogies are a standard design and are designed to handle different gauges, including some lines which are actually a little wider than in Ireland. Almost the first thing that will be done on used stock is wheel turning and fresh tyre laying. These are common jobs for most running sheds to undertake so fitting new axles is not the nightmare that it's made out to be.

Losty Dublin · 25-07-2017 07:27PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Maybe a point but they would of been able to get new trains made when you consider the cost of buying, cost of removal, cost of refitting. They never had a chance of getting sold, first question I would ask is why they were removed by IE if I was a prospective buyer.

New stock can take 2-4 years to build and supply. If an operator is urgently looking for stock, second hand can make sense.

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Outside the middle cars for the ICR's, I suspect new commuter stock may well be focused on DART within 10 years if expanded towards Maynooth and Ballybricken. A lot of the DART fleet will be 40 years old in the next 6/7 years and need replacing.

81/8300 were only recently refurbished in the last few years and look as good as the day that they were delivered. There's no immediate plans to order new stock anytime soon so they have a long life ahead of them.

devnull · 25-07-2017 07:46PM

The 8100 are excellent trains, still the best DARTS if you ask me, they got a very good refurbishment.

tabbey · 25-07-2017 09:59PM

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I suspect new commuter stock may well be focused on DART within 10 years if expanded towards Maynooth and Ballybricken.

Ballybricken - that would be WART; Waterford Area Rapid Transit. I look forward to this and CART . Fermoy deserves a rapid transit also, maybe Tralee.

tabbey · 25-07-2017 10:05PM

devnull wrote: »

The 8100 are excellent trains, still the best DARTS if you ask me, they got a very good refurbishment.

Probably the best rolling stock on IR, certainly for the role they serve.

GhostyMcGhost · 25-07-2017 10:07PM

tabbey wrote: »

Ballybricken - that would be WART; Waterford Area Rapid Transit. I look forward to this and CART . Fermoy deserves a rapid transit also, maybe Tralee.

TART?

tabbey · 25-07-2017 10:16PM

RiggsRants wrote: »

im assuming as the oldest in the fleet the 2600s would be the next to be scrapped/sold if IE invest in new trains?

I notice external corrosion on some of the 2800s, at floor level near the doors
As they are a second batch of 2600s, does this problem affect 2600s also. Not having been to Cork for a couple of years, I have not seen them recently. I hope they are OK as I always enjoy them on a Cobh trip.

Jamie2k9 · 25-07-2017 11:13PM

81/8300 were only recently refurbished in the last few years and look as good as the day that they were delivered. There's no immediate plans to order new stock anytime soon so they have a long life ahead of them.

Even so once they are 40-45 years only they will look at new options and likely place a big order as part of expanded EMU ops in Dublin area for replacement.

Then even longer term, DU will throw up it's own problems for the old fleet.

dublinman1990 · 26-07-2017 12:04AM

What will happen to the paper destination blinds when these trains are refurbished; Will they be taken off and given electronic displays instead?

Will the trains have the dark green livery on them once they return to service in IE like the 29k's?

GM228 · 26-07-2017 12:25AM

dublinman1990 wrote: »

What will happen to the paper destination blinds when these trains are refurbished; Will they be taken off and given electronic displays instead?

Will the trains have the dark green livery on them once they return to service in IE like the 29k's?

2700s already have electronicl destinations, they will be upgraded though (change of colour like on 2716).

Paper blinds on the 2600s and 2800s are to be replaced by electronic versions (soon I believe) following a tender for such late last year.

https://www.tendersdirect.ie/Search/Tenders/Expired.aspx?ID=%20000000005985985&sect=&cat=32&Page=Categories

goingnowhere · 26-07-2017 12:27AM

Losty Dublin wrote: »

81/8300 were only recently refurbished in the last few years and look as good as the day that they were delivered. There's no immediate plans to order new stock anytime soon so they have a long life ahead of them.

Specification for replacement is in preparation, mechanically the bodies/bogies are good for 40 years (originally 35) so must be gone by 2024

devnull · 26-07-2017 12:55AM

They have quite a few brothers, sisters and cousins still going well

Hamburg in particular has a lot of LHB U-Bahn and S-Bahn stock which are almost identical inside to the 8100 class .

There's also some LHB stock in other German cities which is similar as well.

L1011 · 26-07-2017 12:47PM

The Amsterdam metro LHB stock was withdrawn around 35 years also

devnull · 26-07-2017 01:06PM

Apart from the most recent S-Bahn and U-Bahn stock pretty much all the Hamburg stuff is close cousins to the 8100.

DT2 wasn't like the 8100s initially but the DT2 refurbishment made it look so, DT3 isn't far off and DT4 in it's original style was quite similar as well, but not since they were refurbished.

472/473 range were also similar and the 474 was the last design of that LHB product before that product line was discontinued in favour of the Alstom parent line following the Alstom takeover.

Personally I reckon the 8100s could outlast the Amsterdam ones though, the 8100s had a proper, good quality refurbishment which didn't have lots of corners cut, in fact, I remember Siemens did more than was originally contracted which delayed the project in Ireland.

2700s return

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