New Zoe, new wart?

01-02-2017 11:57pm

I presume they might do it for the publicity helping to sell it , who knows. Mad idea but possible. I'd like to know how they made it so efficient, aerodynamics is only part of it I bet.

unkel · 02-02-2017 12:14am

Aerodynamics is a huge part. Nobody tests the range of an EV without doing at least a good bit of motorway driving, usually at about the speed limit. This is where the Ioniq excels. I'd say the Ioniq in summer will do about 200km at 120km/h. The 30kWh Leaf (a more expensive car with less toys) probably no more than 130-140km (just making these figures up, but I'd challenge anyone to test this and prove I'm way off the mark)

And none of us know much about how good the Ioniq is at regen, but my guess is that it is pretty good there too.

02-02-2017 2:05pm

Regen won't give you much on long motorway runs, good for town driving with lots of start stop , going down hills and obviously when you need to use the brakes.

On my 140 odd Km commute I will generate only about 400 watt hrs of energy, yes it all adds up but it makes no difference to range, that would only run 55 watt x 2 halogen headlights for under 4 hrs for example.

unkel · 02-02-2017 9:10pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I wonder does the Ioniq really have 28-30 kwh or more ?

You might have a bit of a point. Didn't spot this before but in his comment below the clip where he proves that the Ioniq can indeed charge at 70kW (as claimed by Hyundai), Bjørn Nyland states:

"I believe the car has the same battery as Kia Soul EV which is a 30.5 kWh"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wb3gJ8fWW5g

02-02-2017 9:19pm

Well I suppose that's one of knowing by using the fast chargers to tell you the kwh thought I don't know if that's kwh delivered or consumed.

So probably 30 Kwh and 28 usable , that's remarkable if the Ioniq has 200 kms range at 100 Kph on 28 Kwh.

unkel · 02-02-2017 9:36pm

Deleted User wrote: »

if the Ioniq has 200 kms range at 100 Kph on 28 Kwh.

Far, far better than that. It has a proven range of 220km at 110km/h. Google it, shouldn't be hard to find.

A few min google shows that maybe Nyland was wrong about the batteries being the same though, looks like they are made by different companies. Ioniq battery is LG-Chem.

02-02-2017 9:46pm

unkel wrote: »

maybe Nyland was wrong about the batteries being the same though, looks like they are made by different companies. Ioniq battery is LG-Chem.

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

cros13 · 02-02-2017 10:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

Bjorn's not great at being specific on some of the technical details for EVs he's not familiar with.

In his video he said the Ioniq has the same 30kWh as the Leaf, but he kind of flubbed it a bit. English not being his first language and all.

My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack with quote "room for expansion, both physically and in density".

unkel · 02-02-2017 10:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Batteries being the same as what , don't get you ?

Did you not read my post before that?

Nyland reckoned the Ioniq battery is the same as the 30.5kW battery in the Kia Soul. But it looks like he is wrong.

unkel · 02-02-2017 10:44pm

cros13 wrote: »

My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack

In the above clip he charges from 10% to 100% and charges 25.54kWh, so (100%/90%) * 25.54 = 28.38kWh ( 100% full and usuable), so total capacity of about 30kWh would be consistent with what your sources were telling you

What / who are those sources BTW?

cros13 · 02-02-2017 10:55pm

unkel wrote: »

What / who are those sources BTW?

I work for a defence contractor. Serious remote power requirements these days. If I said any more I'd have to kill you :cool:

02-02-2017 11:18pm

Nuclear batteries !

bk · 03-02-2017 12:31am

cros13 wrote: »

My sources in Hyundai back before the launch were telling me it was a 30kWh LG Chem pack with quote "room for expansion, both physically and in density".

LG Chem the company supplying the 60kWh battery in the Bolt and the 40kWh in the Zoe. So perhaps a sign of things to come to the Ioniq.

cros13 · 03-02-2017 1:04am

bk wrote: »

So perhaps a sign of things to come to the Ioniq.

The Ioniq is using an older cell design/chemistry than the Bolt and Zoe. I suspect the bump in range Hyunsai is hinting at for 2018ish is the newer chemistry and filling out some of the empty space in the central tunnel with a slightly larger pack.

03-02-2017 1:14pm

Nissan will most likely use an LG Chem battery if they do indeed get out of the battery business.

03-02-2017 1:25pm

I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.

03-02-2017 1:28pm

I'd rather they just make larger more practical , more powerful electric cars to be honest, even if they're not as efficient.

Stick in a good size battery !

unkel · 03-02-2017 1:37pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Stick in a good size battery !

But that's expensive.

You can make a new Leaf with a 50kWh battery, but if that car doesn't go 1km further than an Ioniq with a 28kWh battery, then what's the point of that?

You mix up efficiency in the form of electricity costs per km of running an EV, which nobody cares about, with the true importance of efficiency: range, range, range!

03-02-2017 1:39pm

My point being that manufacturers are only mainly creating super mini or small hatch cars , that's fine for a lot of people and it's also not fine for a lot of people.

Yes creating a larger EV with a larger battery will be more expensive but a 7 seater Galaxy is a ridiculous price but people buy them because they need the practicality of such a vehicle.

The model choice for electrics is far too poor !

unkel · 03-02-2017 1:47pm

Agreed but we are just not there yet. For a boxy SUV / MPV full EV to compete with ICE, even Hybrid or PHEV, it will need about 60-80kWh battery and be about the same price as them*. That's simply at least another few years away...

*after subsidies

bk · 03-02-2017 2:34pm

samih wrote: »

I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.

Tesla already know all about, Model 3 has a slightly lower drag then the Ioniq (but then the S is a much larger and heavier car) and the Model 3 will supposedly have the lowest drag of any mass production car (The EV1 was lower again, but two seats only and wasn't mass produced).

I suspect Nissan knew this too, but got a little stuck since the Leaf has such a poor drag cd and their own battery manufacturing has fallen way behind LG Chem, Panasonic, etc.

I suspect Nissan needs to go back to the drawing board, a brand new car with a low drag cd more similar to the Ioniq and Model 3 along with third party batteries.

unkel · 03-02-2017 6:15pm

bk wrote: »

the Model 3 will supposedly have the lowest drag of any mass production car

The more I hear about the Model 3, the more impressed I am. It's a pity it's still several years away before we can buy one over here. And that won't be a budget car here, probably around the €40k mark after all subsidies

bk wrote: »

Tesla already know all about, Model 3 has a slightly lower drag then the Ioniq

I presume you mean Model S? Afaik both have a cd of 0.24, which is about as good as it gets in any production car atm. The model S is obviously not a mass production car but as you say the Model 3 will be

03-02-2017 6:52pm

The IONIQ is extremely efficient also on low speeds compared to the other BEVs. There seems more to it than just the cd value.

ewj1978 · 07-02-2017 4:59pm

unkel wrote: »

Aerodynamics is a huge part. Nobody tests the range of an EV without doing at least a good bit of motorway driving, usually at about the speed limit. This is where the Ioniq excels. I'd say the Ioniq in summer will do about 200km at 120km/h. The 30kWh Leaf (a more expensive car with less toys) probably no more than 130-140km (just making these figures up, but I'd challenge anyone to test this and prove I'm way off the mark)

And none of us know much about how good the Ioniq is at regen, but my guess is that it is pretty good there too.

2 german lads took the leaf (30kW) down an autobahn @ 120km/h. Got 138km out of it with 8% left when they pulled off. if i remember right it was 1c and they had a/c on at 21c.

unkel · 07-02-2017 5:42pm

So my guess was pretty ballpark then

That's actually not bad at all, given the low outside temps. Wish someone would do side-by-side tests like that with the most popular EVs so we could compare better. The Czech test is the only real direct comparison we have, isn't it?

ewj1978 · 20-03-2017 8:44pm

And still we wait for any info from Renault Ireland. They said they'd send me out a brochure and I'm still waiting. Doesn't really inspire me with confidence.

cros13 · 20-03-2017 9:55pm

I had a request in as well... promised a callback from the person handling the Zoe twice and they still have not called.

The launch is supposed to be this month.... you'd almost think they weren't interested in selling EVs :rolleyes:

21-03-2017 11:41pm

cros13 wrote: »

The launch is supposed to be this month.... you'd almost think they weren't interested in selling EVs :rolleyes:

No , most Renault dealers are not interested in selling the EV. I remember on the FB Group people telling their experience where dealers were almost putting their arm around them and saying ,as the steer them away ( look at this lovely "Diesel" car, I think this would suit you a lot better ) or something like that.

ewj1978 · 22-03-2017 2:27pm

I've linked this thread to renault Irelands twitter.. Lets see if we get a response.

ewj1978 · 23-03-2017 2:44pm

Their response:" Planning to have the ZOEi with dealers by May. Website will be updated soon and happy to receive any brochure requests via DM."

BoatMad · 26-03-2017 11:17am

samih wrote: »

I reckon it was a big surprise to everybody about the efficiency of the Ioniq. Lot's of disassembly and understanding the Ioniq going on at Nissan, Tesla, Renault before more products are released.

Absolutely , I was told it could potentially delay new gen leaf. Hydundai pulled a surprise to the whole EV world with the performance of the iconiq

Add a bigger battery to that efficiency and you have a very serious EV

grogi · 29-03-2017 1:27pm

I went to Renault.ie site today - they quote ZOE from €23490 with full battery purchase...

I guess it is new, previously it was offered only with battery rental, right?

unkel · 29-03-2017 5:19pm

Expensive. Unless there is scrappage / a substantial discount available?

Top speed of only 135km/h. That's even lower than the original Leaf (144km/h). That's the kind of top speed economy cars had 50 years ago :rolleyes:

grogi · 29-03-2017 10:11pm

unkel wrote: »

Expensive. Unless there is scrappage / a substantial discount available?

Top speed of only 135km/h. That's even lower than the original Leaf (144km/h). That's the kind of top speed economy cars had 50 years ago :rolleyes:

Expensive, but with 41kWh battery... 400 km in NEDC test (280 km for Ioniq as far I can google)

Nevertheless it seems Renault officially ditched the battery rental scheme.

unkel · 29-03-2017 10:28pm

NEDC range is pretty much irrelevant. 300km on EPA range, which is very good (Ioniq 200km), but the practical figures in James and Kate's test (220km winter in UK) were very close to the Ioniq (200km winter in UK iirc). And not the 50% more range you'd expect with a car that has a 50% bigger battery (even though the car is a lot smaller)

But for sure it will suit some people.

ewj1978 · 04-04-2017 4:29pm

So, 28k for the mid range 40kw and 30k for the top of the range. Both of these include Battery purchase. Thats saucy prices imho.

05-04-2017 2:01am

Sure is a high price, most people will see the Zoe as a Clio and you can buy a petrol clio for half the price at about 15K and have what, 500-600 kms range.

Zoe is a small slow car, the extra range would be nice but it's still way too expensive for Irish buyers for what it is. They could easily install a 200 HP motor and make it more desirable. Electricity is too cheap , so why install a low HP motor ?, it's not like you have to try increase fuel economy by installing under powered engines, so what, you drive the car harder you loose some range ? big deal, at least I'd have the choice, I'd imagine the 40 Kwh would be slower again with the extra weight.

If it cost maybe 20K then they'd be on to a winner.

unkel · 05-04-2017 9:22am

+1 Mad_Lad

They should have either made it cheaper or they could have turned it into the first desirable EV hot hatch. A missed opportunity.

cros13 · 05-04-2017 10:43am

Well they still have the old 22kWh for €23k... so you have a choice.

Prices will come down in time anyway. Zoe's are doing good volume in France and Germany.

unkel · 05-04-2017 10:48am

The 22kWh Zoe is €17k in France. It would sell like hotcakes over here for that price too. €23k for a slowish supermini is just too much. That's the price of a family size car.

05-04-2017 9:35pm

Don't get me wrong, the motor in the Zoe is leaps and bounds better than the petrol or diesel Clio but the price is just far too high because it's equivalent to the petrol clio. Most petrol clios are not fast anyway so I guess the power of the Zoe reflects what normal Clio buyers would buy. But my opinion is that it's not necessary to have such low power in an EV with the cheap cost of electricity.

At least the Leaf / Ioniq are comparable on price to the diesels......

I would like to see the current Gen leaf live on , re-branded and sold for 18K.

reboot · 01-05-2017 9:10am

Hi Dexter, you still fully charged?

listermint · 13-05-2017 8:17am

This is ready to go now. Anyone test drive ?

Real world range ?

What's the general pricing breakdowns

Evd-Burner · 13-05-2017 10:15am

Rang a dealer who said they'll be getting their test car next week and will start the 24 hr test drives then. I'm gonna take it from Dublin to limerick and see what the real world range is!

listermint · 13-05-2017 10:22am

Nice one, report back

ei9go · 13-05-2017 3:51pm

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Rang a dealer who said they'll be getting their test car next week and will start the 24 hr test drives then. I'm gonna take it from Dublin to limerick and see what the real world range is!

Used 39 kWh in the 22 kWh Zoe the past few days and have driven 240 km.
Mixture of the M9 , N Roads and city driving.

ewj1978 · 13-05-2017 6:04pm

Read the review in the times yesterday.. nice car/comfort/range but high price for small car.

unkel · 14-05-2017 12:51am

ewj1978 wrote: »

Read the review in the times yesterday.. nice car/comfort/range but high price for small car.

Haven't read that review, but the range of the car is disappointing from the reviews I have seen and the price is far too high. Such a shame, I was hoping the new Zoe would be the next real reason the sheeples could have gone for EVs

reboot · 14-05-2017 10:11am

Am I right in thinking the range, with the new battery is over 200 miles, and does it take a charge from 44k CP, as per the first model?

ewj1978 · 14-05-2017 10:19am

reboot wrote: »

Am I right in thinking the range, with the new battery is over 200 miles, and does it take a charge from 44k CP, as per the first model?

Range is 160-200 depending on driving style. There's 2 different motors. Both can take 22kw from SCP s but only 1 can fast charge, not sure what the max is.. but yes at 44kw at least.

New Zoe, new wart?

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