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Everesting Ticknock - July 2017

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Ok, after trying 1/3 of the elevation yesterday (a bit flatter though - in 100km, while Ticknock only is approx. 4500m in 100km) I know a few new things:

    1. I would like to have a bailout gear, 34/36 perhaps. The 36/34 (that I train on) was getting progressively harder to pedal on the 15%+ ramp during the last few reps.

    2. I can't stomach nuts very well. I've eaten plenty, two Banana Dogs (baguette with a lot of peanut butter and whole banana inside), three Nature bars (bheagh) and 200g of Lidl's Fruit and Nut mix. I was feeling bloated for the whole day after that, and today the only thing I can't think of is nuts. I guess my body knows.

    3. The tiredness hit me quite hard after 2700m. Legs were fine, it was the head / vision / concentration that was getting worse. Maybe it was dehydration, as I had only 2 bidons for 6 hours of climbing, and after a few hours of rest I was up and running again. In fact legs are super fresh today, I could easily hit the hills again now. Good sign.

    4. The road was super busy with mountain bikers, cars and all sort of walkers, including families with prams taking the whole width. Still, I was ok to descend, didn't feel nervous. Disc brakes took a lot, I will definitely need another set of pads. But then, it won't be nowhere near as busy on a week day.

    5. Guys from the biking.ie hut said that Tuesday may be a better day as it seems the quietest. I'll think about that.


  • Posts: 3,620 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Alek wrote: »
    Ok, after trying 1/3 of the elevation yesterday (a bit flatter though - in 100km, while Ticknock only is approx. 4500m in 100km) I know a few new things:

    1. I would like to have a bailout gear, 34/36 perhaps. The 36/34 (that I train on) was getting progressively harder to pedal on the 15%+ ramp during the last few reps.

    2. I can't stomach nuts very well. I've eaten plenty, two Banana Dogs (baguette with a lot of peanut butter and whole banana inside), three Nature bars (bheagh) and 200g of Lidl's Fruit and Nut mix. I was feeling bloated for the whole day after that, and today the only thing I can't think of is nuts. I guess my body knows.

    3. The tiredness hit me quite hard after 2700m. Legs were fine, it was the head / vision / concentration that was getting worse. Maybe it was dehydration, as I had only 2 bidons for 6 hours of climbing, and after a few hours of rest I was up and running again. In fact legs are super fresh today, I could easily hit the hills again now. Good sign.

    4. The road was super busy with mountain bikers, cars and all sort of walkers, including families with prams taking the whole width. Still, I was ok to descend, didn't feel nervous. Disc brakes took a lot, I will definitely need another set of pads. But then, it won't be nowhere near as busy on a week day.

    5. Guys from the biking.ie hut said that Tuesday may be a better day as it seems the quietest. I'll think about that.

    Awesome, best of luck!


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Alek wrote: »
    1. I would like to have a bailout gear, 34/36 perhaps. The 36/34 (that I train on) was getting progressively harder to pedal on the 15%+ ramp during the last few reps.

    Assuming you're freewheeling the downhill and don't need any big gears, maybe just chuck a 30t chain ring on the front with your existing rear setup which gets you 30/34? A granny ring from a road triple should do the trick.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Its not a bad idea at all! I have a triple on the other bike, I wonder what the Q factor is though... they're both Shimano road cranks.

    Thanks, I'm off to calculate the gear ratios now :)

    [edit]

    30/32 is the same ratio as 34/36 :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    In Your Face Shimano: Sora 3500 rear mech, short cage (sic!), 34t front, 11-36 back.

    c446fcdc0b4e0517ffddc2cbbfcacc1e.jpg

    bece499c3543f83847b30222a639f009.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭robyntmorton


    I should admire this, but I can't see past the QR lever on the wrong side. For shame!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    NO! This is intentional, to prevent tightening it against the disc rotor when I'm tired. Done it once, never again ;)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,120 ✭✭✭Peterx


    Perhaps there's a QR lever on both sides? Marginal gainz :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,263 ✭✭✭robyntmorton


    Alek wrote: »
    NO! This is intentional, to prevent tightening it against the disc rotor when I'm tired. Done it once, never again ;)

    When you say it, it sounds logical. Fair enough so.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Alek wrote: »
    In Your Face Shimano: Sora 3500 rear mech, short cage (sic!), 34t front, 11-36 back.

    And you can tell SRAM to keep their X-Dome cassette for 385 euros too!! :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Well, I wouldn't be so sure about 11-42, but I'm curious to try 11-40 if I only had one handy :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,663 ✭✭✭Thud


    marginal gains. time to saw off those handlebars, should hang on to the brakes though:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zBNTOwuXNRQ


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    I'd consider going 30 up front and one of the absolute black oval chain rings. You will rarely be on the lower end of that cassette and more often than not coasting on the descents.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,176 ✭✭✭nilhg


    iwillhtfu wrote: »
    I'd consider going 30 up front and one of the absolute black oval chain rings. You will rarely be on the lower end of that cassette and more often than not coasting on the descents.

    You won't get 30 in 110mm BCD, OP would have to change cranks I think


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    The other issue is that I don't have a separate bike for training, and 30x11 is way too low for anything else, while I can get away with 34x11 and 40kph.

    See, the concept is great, but I don't see myself swapping the cranks twice a week :) I'll see how I get on with 34x36 over the next few days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    nilhg wrote: »
    You won't get 30 in 110mm BCD, OP would have to change cranks I think

    True I was going to say you may need to swap the crank.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Just short of 1300m metres today, only.

    Legs are wooden - I was so slow I didn't have time to top it up to 1500m before work. I guess that's the toll of 3000m on Sunday...

    34/36 on a short mech works beautifully, shifts just as it should. The problem is that no matter how low gearing you have, you always hit a point you wish there was one more... especially on the final ramp on Kippure ;) I can normally do it on 34/27, but since I had 36... fecking snail pace :pac:


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Alek wrote: »
    especially on the final ramp on Kippure ;) I can normally do it on 34/27, but since I had 36... fecking snail pace :pac:

    Fair play, I struggled enough at the weekend on Kippure on 34/32 and saw 6.4kph on the Garmin before I got to the top. I was actually thinking of this thread when I got there, was wondering how low a gear you'd still get any benefit from, and reckon you'd want to figure it out based on your minimal acceptable speed and desired cadence at this speed. By the last ramp my cadence had dropped to 50rpm (I'm a pretty appalling climber!) and I reckon it would have been less of a struggle at the same speed at 60-65rpm.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    It is different kind of struggle, but struggle either way. With harder gearing you have no choice but do it sporty style, out of saddle (or almost), puking your guts out at the end. With 34/36 I can do it steadily crawling up... but that's kinda boring, if it wasn't training ;) Being local top of the world, Kippure deserves special approach :)


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭mr spuckler


    Alek wrote: »
    Just short of 1300m metres today, only.

    Legs are wooden - I was so slow I didn't have time to top it up to 1500m before work. I guess that's the toll of 3000m on Sunday...

    34/36 on a short mech works beautifully, shifts just as it should. The problem is that no matter how low gearing you have, you always hit a point you wish there was one more... especially on the final ramp on Kippure ;) I can normally do it on 34/27, but since I had 36... fecking snail pace :pac:

    1300m before work? :eek:

    and there was i was proud of my 450m yesterday!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,479 ✭✭✭rollingscone


    1300m before work? :eek:

    and there was i was proud of my 450m yesterday!

    My working theory is that Alek is some sort of escaped military android prototype living incognito.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,797 ✭✭✭g0g


    Loving this thread and looking forward to seeing how it goes. If I'm cycling to/from work that day I might even spin over. Very best of luck with your effort either way! :)

    I'm curious as to the effort required for Everesting. I wonder is it possible to compare with other events? Ok I'm guessing it's going to take more out of the body than say a typical marathon. I wonder is it harder than the likes of a full Ironman? Bottom line, how much effort do you foresee in the preparation? Will you literally be hill-climbing every day for the next few months?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Sarz91


    g0g wrote: »
    Loving this thread and looking forward to seeing how it goes. If I'm cycling to/from work that day I might even spin over. Very best of luck with your effort either way! :)

    I'm curious as to the effort required for Everesting. I wonder is it possible to compare with other events? Ok I'm guessing it's going to take more out of the body than say a typical marathon. I wonder is it harder than the likes of a full Ironman? Bottom line, how much effort do you foresee in the preparation? Will you literally be hill-climbing every day for the next few months?

    Having done a few reps with lads who've completed an Everest and having talked to a few of them after, they don't think it's physically any harder or easier than a 300-400km spin. The tough bit is the mental side of it where you've to ride the same piece stretch of 2-3km road for pretty close to an entire day. I've been told you go to some pretty dark places mentally.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,027 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    Sarz91 wrote: »
    ... they don't think it's physically any harder or easier than a 300-400km spin...
    I would consider an 'Everest' to be multiple times more difficult than doing a 300/400k ride.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    I would consider an 'Everest' to be multiple times more difficult than doing a 300/400k ride.

    Mentally yes physically maybe not


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,027 ✭✭✭✭Wishbone Ash


    godtabh wrote: »
    Mentally yes physically maybe not
    I meant both!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    I've done 325k with approx 4000k climbing once before. Long day in the saddle, and quite tiring on the head... After a few weeks of hill training I can say that 190k / 8848m will be multiple times harder in any way. I trust good company will make it bearable mentally, but legs will never forgive me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 719 ✭✭✭flatface


    Bravo! Count me in for a few laps of support. I promise to talk about anything other than hill climbing!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    I promise to talk about anything other than hill climbing

    Good one! :D


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Sarz91


    I would consider an 'Everest' to be multiple times more difficult than doing a 300/400k ride.

    Having never done either I cant really comment but that's just what I've been told. I guess it's different for different people maybe.


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 15,795 Mod ✭✭✭✭smacl


    Sarz91 wrote: »
    Having never done either I cant really comment but that's just what I've been told. I guess it's different for different people maybe.

    Longest I've managed to date was ~250k solo on a reasonably flat route, and I personally found it much less taxing that a very hilly route of ~150k. Even a few reps of something very steep can be murderous, particularly if you're already tired. I'd consider Everesting a huge challenge, possibly more so than an Iron man, as you have little opportunity to take your foot off the gas. Once the descents are steep too, you really don't have much respite and its the same muscles under pressure all the time.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    The hardest thing I ever did on the bike was last years evil. 208km and 4000m+ in climbing. The conditions were so bad that I climbed off the bike a few times to quit. A few mins later and a kick up the arse I'd be on the way again.

    The body was willing but the mind was cracking first.

    That's why I think it's more of a mental battle but clearly very very though physical. You aren't just going to turn up and do it. A lot of prep will be needed.

    Out of interest do you have a training plan for this? I assume it will require a lot of hill reps and a lot of endurance rides. Sounds like a very big commitment


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    My training plan is in the first post, so far I manage to stick to it quite well. Unfortunately don't have much time for endurance training, but I've read blogs of other accomplished everesters that didn't have much either. Lack of long-term energy management is my biggest worry at the moment, and it's not possible to train this within 3-4hours I usually have for my rides...


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Alek wrote: »
    My training plan is in the first post, so far I manage to stick to it quite well. Unfortunately don't have much time for endurance training, but I've read blogs of other accomplished everesters that didn't have much either. Lack of long-term energy management is my biggest worry at the moment, and it's not possible to train this within 3-4hours I usually have for my rides...

    Just re reading it. It will be some achievement


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 50,510 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    godtabh wrote: »
    Mentally yes physically maybe not
    not that i know what i'm talking about (has never stopped me before) but on an everest attempt, you'd surely be much more likely to face a situation where you physically cannot turn the pedals any more?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    I'm accepting this possibility....


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    111km / 3444m training today, most with Irishrover99.

    1. I was able to go up Ticknock a few times with acceptable pace (~9kph) and keep the heart rate in low 130s. Well, until Irishrover99 arrived after 1300m and raised the pace for the rest of the spin, moaning how bad his form is recently ;) Still, good progress in slowing down and a very meditative experience.

    2. Bananarittos are new bananadogs: a lot of peanut butter, some jam and whole banana wrapped in a tortilla. Easier to eat, one every two hours. I can't get bored of them, although I was craving eggs and sausages for the rest of the day ;)

    3. My own form is definitely improving - this time I was able to function almost normally for the rest of the day (shopping, kids, stuff). I could feel a bit of fatigue but head was clear and legs alright. Knees hurt a little, and I got one mini leg cramp in the same muscle as on Evil. I'm worried a bit about this.

    4. I still can't remember about drinking. 1,5 bidons for the whole ride was not nearly enough, I lost almost 2 kilos....:eek: This time no feeling of dehydration though.

    https://www.relive.cc/view/941531103
    https://www.strava.com/activities/941531103


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,373 ✭✭✭iwillhtfu


    Alek wrote: »
    I got one mini leg cramp in the same muscle as on Evil. I'm worried a bit about this.
    Alek wrote: »
    4. I still can't remember about drinking. 1,5 bidons for the whole ride was not nearly enough, I lost almost 2 kilos....:eek: This time no feeling of dehydration though.

    One should sort the other out or at least be a good indication of the cause.

    You'll also need to be replacing electrolytes during the day which is usually easiest through one of those tabs high 5 or similar in a bidon or salt sticks. The latter is pretty rank.

    Savage spin though well done. You look to be well on track. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭Bloggsie


    Alek wrote: »
    So I have decided to come out of the closet with my attempt at Everesting.

    The climb (accepted by the hells500 guys ): https://www.strava.com/segments/14420672
    34 repeats without sleep, just under 200km and a tad over 8848m elevation. 10.000 calories and a pair or two of spare brake pads to burn off.

    The exact day will be announced at later stage, it will be most likely Friday to avoid the human traffic which can get quite heavy on a sunny weekend, and to give myself two days of total rest after the ride. It has to be a dry one too, as descending 10% hill in the wet at the edge of exhaustion can end badly.

    Biggest challenges:

    1. Head. How to survive 16h doing the same climb?
    2. Food. How to consume 10000kcal while climbing without throwing your guts out?
    3. Body. How to pace myself?

    After a few trial runs (4-5 reps) I settled on 34/34 gearing. I can do it easily on 38/32 with the heart rate not exceeding 150 (185 max), but I will need easier gears later in the day. I'm a natural spinner, and also I don't want to overload the muscles, as cramps nearly finished my ride by the end of Evil 200 in 2015.

    The target heart rate for climbing is 150, average 120-130. I know I can go for hours and hours if I don't exceed that.

    Planned training:
    April: 2x 1500m a week, plus one or two 150km / 4000m rides
    May: 2x2000m a week, one 150km / 4000m ride, Mick Byrne with Kippure thrown in (200km / approx 4000m)
    June: 1x2000m + 1x3000m a week + Evil 200 + one 150km / 4000m ride
    July: continued, than a week of rest, and boom.

    Also, I will need some moral support on the day. I'd be very happy if some of you could join me for a couple of reps, especially in the afternoon, to talk my ears off, get sworn on, or keep silent if I ask to and just cycle along - in one word endure the dubious company of a mad man. I'm generally a nice guy but I don't know where an effort like that can take me ;)
    Just come across this post, you are either a machine or a head case(possibly both) I am amazed by your commitment prior to the event and the fact you do with with work & family to be getting on with as well

    I wish you the very best for this, be safe. You will have to advise on what places your head goes to on the day.

    Cap doffed in your direction.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    A head case mostly :) Cheers, in fairness I wouldn't attempt it if my work wasn't so easy and my wife so understanding. Still, the whole training takes only 4-6h of the family time weekly, bike maintenance included. The trick is to cycle when they sleep ;) I guess most (normal) men go out with their mates more than this.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 23,235 Mod ✭✭✭✭godtabh


    Alek wrote: »
    A head case mostly :) Cheers, in fairness I wouldn't attempt it if my work wasn't so easy and my wife so understanding. Still, the whole training takes only 4-6h of the family time weekly, bike maintenance included. The trick is to cycle when they sleep ;) I guess most (normal) men go out with their mates more than this.

    To have any family/work/hobby balance for cycling this has to be done especially with young kids


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    I know you know! :)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Eponymous


    Just added you on Strava, Alek. If nothing else it'll serve as some motivation to get my arse out of bed on a Sunday and look to the hills!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,153 ✭✭✭Glass Prison 1214


    If I could follow you a second time on strava I would, this is class and fair play for even attempting it :eek:

    I've always thought about everesting but I don't think I have the commitment, mental toughness, or the courage to attempt it. I'll share my opinion nonetheless though :)

    I understand your reasoning for going for the segment you have chosen, but I still have to respectfully disagree. In my opinion after 8/10/12+ hours of climbing, you will be physically and mentally exhausted, at which point the descent will be as much of a struggle as the ascent. When you reach this point I think your choice of hill could become an issue, its not a friendly one to descend.

    I would personally go for this segment https://www.strava.com/segments/631152. At nearly 9% it is steep enough that you wouldnt have to be cycling 300k on the day, it is constant in gradient the whole way up with no major spikes in gradient, meaning you could more easily set a sustainable tempo. It is also a perfect surface and a nice and easy road to descend. The decent would be much easier, and quicker which could save you an hour or more over the course of the everest attempt. On top of this there are natural gathering points at the top and bottom where people could be located for support, while there is also a couple of spots on the way up where people could be dotted for support. There is also lots of forests on the route for ahem 'natural breaks'.

    I really hope you succeed though, and if I am in the country at the time I would love to join you for a couple of reps of the hill and help out in any way I can :) Good luck!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Hey Glass Prison!

    I really appreciate your comment, yet I'll stick to my segment. I know both roads by heart now, and in fainess going down Cruagh, with all the blind turns you have there and the temptation to gain speed, is much scarier option for me when I envision the state of myself after 12 hours of climbing.

    Going down Ticknock will certainly be a struggle, however as I expect people to be there, I have no other option but to stay alert. I don't mind going down slowly, holding brakes most of the time... My average descending speed is 30kph when people are there, which you can say is not much at all for 9% gradient :)

    I am afraid that on Cruagh Road I would just let go at some stage, gain proper speed and hit one of the corners too sharp being tired... or a car that I hoped would not be there.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    I had a few quiet hours to re-think this while training this morning.

    Now I think I may adjust the plan a little.

    I am leaning towards starting the segment at the upper gate - this would leave out the most dangerous parts of the route: going against one way traffic vs shoity surface and loads of turns, parked cars, two gates, normal road traffic etc. Also, the gradient is very even as is the tarmac... done the shorter version 7 times today and it was niiiice.

    https://www.strava.com/segments/14646562

    Now, in order to adhere to rule #5, I think I'll attempt it on a 34/34 singlespeed :D

    This will be around 68 reps and 180km/8848m

    Anyone has an old worn out MTB 11-34 or 11-36 cassette with an alu spider so I can cannibalize the largest cog? It can be any speed - 8, 9, 10 or 11 will do. (Spider is needed to protect the freehub from the torque being applied to huge single ring)


  • Registered Users, Subscribers, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,172 ✭✭✭wanderer 22


    Good call Alek - I think that first part of your original segment would have been a nightmare (it is even on rep #1) :p


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Since starting the thread:

    Week 1 - 5664m (single ride of 3039m)
    Week 2 - 3189m
    Week 3 - 6687m (single ride of 3444m)
    Week 4 - 3522m
    Week 5 - 5240m
    Week 6 - 4613m
    Week 7 - 4496m

    So far so good, but I'm quite behind the schedule with big rides. Mick Byrne 200 (extended) and Evil 200 are coming though.

    After 7 weeks of regular slow climbing 1500m 2-3x a week, I don't feel tired at all after such training. Endurance is rising, I'm no longer scared of 8848m but I feel huge respect to the effort required.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 4,457 ✭✭✭ford2600


    Alek wrote: »
    Since starting the thread:

    Week 1 - 5664m (single ride of 3039m)
    Week 2 - 3189m
    Week 3 - 6687m (single ride of 3444m)
    Week 4 - 3522m
    Week 5 - 5240m
    Week 6 - 4613m
    Week 7 - 4496m

    So far so good, but I'm quite behind the schedule with big rides. Mick Byrne 200 (extended) and Evil 200 are coming though.

    After 7 weeks of regular slow climbing 1500m 2-3x a week, I don't feel tired at all after such training. Endurance is rising, I'm no longer scared of 8848m but I feel huge respect to the effort required.

    Alek is it all steady state training you are doing?

    I'd be inclined to throw in one very hard short session a week, just to keep that element of your fitness there also. It won't d any harm to your endurance/efficiency either


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,374 ✭✭✭Eponymous


    Out of interest, I've noticed on Strava you pulling the trailer with the kids on a couple of spins.

    Does this help with the training or do you not factor that at all? The nearest I can equate it to is running with a tyre tied behind me for rugby training!


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