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Good Friday Drinking

124

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I'm surprised some Paddy hasn't taken this complaint to the European Court of Human Rights before.

    If the ECHR can't force us to allow abortion, it's hardly going to be able to force us to sell drink on a particular day

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Samaris wrote: »
    In theory, he might have gotten somewhere with it, I guess? Our Constitution talks about being a secular state, but Good Friday laws are a religious imposition enforced by the government (well, the State's police force). While on the scale of religious control on a society, it's pretty near the bottom, I suppose it could have opened a fair can of worms.

    Yeah right. And affect bans of sale of alcohol at certain hours, closing times of pubs, closing shops on Sunday in a lot of countries (strongly supported by unions) and so on? You really think it would be passed on basis of separation of religion and state? You would be laughed out of the court.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Yeah right. And affect bans of sale of alcohol at certain hours, closing times of pubs, closing shops on Sunday in a lot of countries (strongly supported by unions) and so on? You really think it would be passed on basis of separation of religion and state? You would be laughed out of the court.

    Pick point, jump four steps forward, deride point+4.

    I have absolutely no idea since it didn't happen and you are agreeing with rather than countering me that it is a very small thing in the grand scheme of things. But by the letter of the Constitution, it could presumably be argued even in the Irish courts. I'd be interested to know if anyone's tried. I agree on the point of Sunday, and when I was typing that, I meant to bring up the whole issue of Christmas/midwinter holiday and whether that would likewise count, but I forgot to add it. The restrictions at certain hours isn't necessarily the same thing, it would need to have a religious element or background to it to count for the same issue though. Some might, like no Sunday morning trading, but others wouldn't.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Nobody is stopping you to drink alcohol on Good Friday. They are just not allowed to sell alcohol on those days. Basically it's just affecting trade. You really don't want to open floodgates around not being able to limit trading for whatever reason. I think there is a reason why nobody went to court, especially as human rights violation.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Nobody is stopping you to drink alcohol on Good Friday. They are just not allowed to sell alcohol on those days.

    Thanks for the info, I thought a priest was gonna kick my door down or something :rolleyes:

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Thanks for the info, I thought a priest was gonna kick my door down or something :rolleyes:

    That is completely pointless comment and it doesn't make belief that your human rights are violated by the ban any more rational.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    Not bothered at all now but in college the best parties were always on good Friday. Tomorrow's kids will never know the joy of a proper Good Friday? Great Friday! Party

    On the flip side anything that lessens the church's waining grip and pisses of the likes of Ronan Mullen has to be good.

    Need to get the angelus gone next.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    It's actually more cultural than anything. Where I come from even people who observe GF and have no meat that day would happily have a drink. And see nothing wrong with it. I think those rules very often mirror national obsessions.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3 jackschof1988


    I haven't read the full thread, but I was in the supermarket on Thursday evening and saw people stocking up. I think it is rather sad the people cannot survive a day without alcohol.

    It just underlies the unhealthy association that we have with alcohol in this country.

    Sad.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,349 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    People can of course survive a day without alcohol. The problem is that Irish people don't like being told they can't do something based on archaic and outdated laws put in place to appease a religion which used to have the country under its boot.

    The funny thing is that ending the ban on the sale of alcohol will probably lead to less alcohol consumption on that day.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,341 ✭✭✭SPDUB


    Super valu done it by using toilet rolls and the prize was if you bought them all you could look but not buy any booze.

    You'll probably be able to do that next year as well given that as reported by the Irish Times the change in law will only be for pubs


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,544 ✭✭✭Samaris


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Nobody is stopping you to drink alcohol on Good Friday. They are just not allowed to sell alcohol on those days. Basically it's just affecting trade. You really don't want to open floodgates around not being able to limit trading for whatever reason. I think there is a reason why nobody went to court, especially as human rights violation.

    Again, that is not what I'm saying.
    People can of course survive a day without alcohol. The problem is that Irish people don't like being told they can't do something based on archaic and outdated laws put in place to appease a religion which used to have the country under its boot.

    The funny thing is that ending the ban on the sale of alcohol will probably lead to less alcohol consumption on that day.

    Thanks, that was the point I was trying to make. The word of the law may not be strictly necessary, but I'm just curious to know which way it would have gone. Would it count as being against the secular nature of the State, and would that have opened a can of worms regarding Sunday trading laws or Christmas. Christmas and Sunday trading laws do have other reasons behind them, even if they "started" out religious (well, were co-opted by religious reasons), so it may not have. It's one of those interesting little complexities of law. Can people be prevented from doing something ordinary (in this case, selling alcohol) on a specific day purely due to religious reasons, enforced by the State in a country that claims to be a secular State was my question at base. What would the courts have decided is my interest (which I'll probably never know now :P)

    Nothing particularly to do with whether or not I can drink on GF, meeeh, my previous posts were commenting on the ridiculousness of the palaver around "stocking up" for one dry day on the Thursday!


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deedsie wrote: »
    It's pretty sad people can't go a day without consuming alcohol.

    Most people go without consuming alcohol most days. But as adults they don't need a nanny state trying to dictate to them which days they do drink on.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    And so we lay the good friday threads to rest for another year.

    And coming up next - the annual 'Sunny weather has the scangers fighting in Portmarnock' thread.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    How pathetic is it that people seek all kinds of avenues to have a drink on Good Friday, like hotel bars or train station bars?

    Its one day FFS

    I agree.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Estrellita


    LordSutch wrote: »
    I agree.

    Easier to come over all offended or outraged by an old law than it is to turn the question around and ask 'why do I care so much?'

    Damn religion and the grip it still has on this country!!! Where else would you get it?!! :mad: ....... So when do you get your Christmas holidays?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    I think this thread has triggered the religious snowflakes.

    Anyways, it is now Monday so why the hell is this still a subject?

    More and more people in Ireland present themselves in clinics for alcoholism, there is increase of internal organ failure among women and people are getting fatter and fatter. I don't care about the religion, I had a glass of wine with dinner on Friday as I often do. It's about how very little makes people as worried about their human right to get hammered and stocking up with alcohol as one day of no selling of alcohol. But yeah keep up fighting the good fight I am sure your liver will be delighted.

    BTW if it was about sensible drinking I would understand somehow. But even the draft that is in the Dail at the moment forgot about the restaurants where drinking is more restrained and accompanied by food. It's good to see where priorities are.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Hey the law is as good as gone and I am sure we will be all better off that it is gone.

    So.. a good thing!
    Its one less difference between Ireland and every other country. How very boring we are.

    Or maybe not?
    I do hope it will see a reduction of alcohol misuse on Holy Thursday and Good Friday.

    Yay! So the law was a mistake all along!
    A great day for Diageo and publicans... Hurray!!!

    Boooo... I think?

    Can you not make your mind up, or are you just having a moan for the sake of it, because that's what it sure sounds like.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,198 ✭✭✭testicles


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,089 ✭✭✭Reputable Rog




  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,133 ✭✭✭Patty O Furniture


    testicles wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    It was mentioned here also

    Although i don't know about the Vatican in Kildare ;)


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Estrellita wrote: »
    Easier to come over all offended or outraged by an old law than it is to turn the question around and ask 'why do I care so much?'

    Damn religion and the grip it still has on this country!!! Where else would you get it?!! :mad: ....... So when do you get your Christmas holidays?

    Christmas for a lot of people has nothing to do with religion. A lot of people don't go to Mass and Christmas is just seen as a nice family holiday with a tree and some gift giving.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    But if it's not society's fault, whos left to blame?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Patww79 wrote: »
    Don't be worrying about society. If someone is face down in their own vomit from drink then let them stay that way. Just keep your own house in order and left them get their own house in order. 'Society' is just an excuse for people wanting to be looked after as adults or wanting others to raise their kids for them, instead of sorting their own **** out. No pub drags you in the door, nor do they hold you down and pour drink down your neck.
    Right I'll tell my mother she should put her house in order because she had to change my grandfather's colonoscopy bag for five years after drunken fall. I saw her drunk once in my life but yet she was very much affected by excessive drinking. Tell that to children who are sneaking out of the house to avoid their drunk rambling parent. Tell that to victims of drink driving and their families. Tell that to sick people in a&e who have to wait for the night while staff deal with passed out drunks. But yeah it doesn't affect you so it's not a problem.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,759 ✭✭✭Winterlong


    Patww79 wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    I am guessing you have never been impacted by a family member or loved one who is an alcoholic? If you were you would realise what nonsense this is.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 26,658 ✭✭✭✭OldMrBrennan83


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    The pubs are not closed for religious religions now, there closed because of state law, so when the state changes the law, they can open.

    The pubs aren't closed. Was out Thursday night in a Dublin city centre pub. They opened for food on Friday. No day off for the staff.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 12,536 Mod ✭✭✭✭Amirani


    It's the right move to remove it; there's no good reason to have it there from a legislative point of view. I can though envisage there being a certain nostalgia when thinking back to the moaning we used to do about it and the unofficial National House-Party Day. :pac:


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Right I'll tell my mother she should put her house in order because she had to change my grandfather's colonoscopy bag for five years after drunken fall. I saw her drunk once in my life but yet she was very much affected by excessive drinking. Tell that to children who are sneaking out of the house to avoid their drunk rambling parent. Tell that to victims of drink driving and their families. Tell that to sick people in a&e who have to wait for the night while staff deal with passed out drunks. But yeah it doesn't affect you so it's not a problem.
    The main problem is that people don't know how to drink responsibly.
    It's like a race to get drunk these days especially with the younger drinkers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deedsie wrote: »
    It's a complex societal issue with pro's & cons..

    It's really not. This law was brought in on religious grounds 90 years ago, it has no justification whatsoever and needs to go.

    Jayop wrote: »
    Christmas for a lot of people has nothing to do with religion. A lot of people don't go to Mass and Christmas is just seen as a nice family holiday with a tree and some gift giving.

    The bolded parts are all pagan traditions which long pre-date christianity (as does easter) so nobody need feel any guilt or hypocrisy whatsoever about celebrating holidays in a non-religious manner.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Go to some of the Muslim countries and try and change their laws based on religion and you'd be arrested. At least that doesn't happen here.
    Things are not that bad here. The pubs are only closed 2 days a year.
    I'm not religious and i couldn't care a lot about it so i can't see the problem.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    Go to some of the Muslim countries and try and change their laws based on religion and you'd be arrested. At least that doesn't happen here.
    Things are not that bad here. The pubs are only closed 2 days a year.
    I'm not religious and i couldn't care a lot about it so i can't see the problem.

    Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it's not wrong. It's a farcical law and should be long gone. Also saying 'it's worse in other places' the is of no difference.

    I don't go out on a Friday too often so it won't bother me either but I still think it should be done away with.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Jayop wrote: »
    Just because it doesn't effect you doesn't mean it's not wrong. It's a farcical law and should be long gone. Also saying 'it's worse in other places' the is of no difference.

    I don't go out on a Friday too often so it won't bother me either but I still think it should be done away with.
    It's gone next year.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 17,388 ✭✭✭✭Jayop


    It's gone next year.

    I'm aware of the legislation.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 3,378 ✭✭✭CeilingFly


    Off licences will be looking for compensation as they'll be losing their busiest day of the year.


  • Registered Users Posts: 16,500 ✭✭✭✭DEFTLEFTHAND


    Indulge in all your earthly pleasures.

    Hell awaits.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 21,730 ✭✭✭✭Fred Swanson


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    It's gone next year.

    That's what they said last year.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Indulge in all your earthly pleasures.

    Hell awaits.

    Citation needed.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭Glenster


    The main problem is that people don't know how to drink responsibly.
    It's like a race to get drunk these days especially with the younger drinkers.

    As opposed to the old days when it was just a coincidence that the drinks we were drinking were alcoholic.

    People have always drank to get p*ssed, otherwise we'd have been drinking tea.

    If you weren't drinking like the sky was about to fall down when you were younger its cos you weren't invited to the cool parties.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    Glenster wrote: »
    As opposed to the old days when it was just a coincidence that the drinks we were drinking were alcoholic.

    People have always drank to get p*ssed, otherwise we'd have been drinking tea.

    If you weren't drinking like the sky was about to fall down when you were younger its cos you weren't invited to the cool parties.

    I remember a time when people took pride in being able to hold their drink. It meant, even if drinking a lot, still retaining sufficient self-control. Getting drunk was for foolish schoolboys and tinkers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Deedsie wrote: »
    Reference? Where in 2016 did any member of the government say they would not oppose legislation to remove the ban on the sale and distribution of alcohol on Good Friday from 2017 onwards?

    They didn't but that wasn't what I said in my post, read it again.

    http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/pubs-to-remain-closed-on-good-friday-says-frances-fitzgerald-1.2505332
    Thu, Jan 21, 2016

    Pubs will remain closed on Good Friday 2016 despite a campaign from vintners for the alcohol ban to be lifted.

    Minister for Justice Frances Fitzgerald on Thursday ruled out an imminent change to the trading rule. “I won’t be doing it this year,” she told RTÉ radio. But she added that it is an issue that would be considered under new alcohol laws.

    In other words, not annoying the god botherers by making an actual commitment to remove the ban, but not annoying everyone else by ruling it out either.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Glenster wrote: »
    As opposed to the old days when it was just a coincidence that the drinks we were drinking were alcoholic.

    People have always drank to get p*ssed, otherwise we'd have been drinking tea.

    If you weren't drinking like the sky was about to fall down when you were younger its cos you weren't invited to the cool parties.

    On the contrary. Many drink because they like a drink but dislike getting drunk. Very rare to see drunks on the streets in many countries.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,953 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Very rare to see drunks on the streets in many countries.

    Doesn't mean they aren't getting sloshed on a regular basis behind closed doors.

    Not seeing drunks on the street probably says more about how the police operate in that country rather than how much the public drink. Ireland's per capita consumption is lower than quite a few countries.

    In Cavan there was a great fire / Judge McCarthy was sent to inquire / It would be a shame / If the nuns were to blame / So it had to be caused by a wire.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,591 ✭✭✭✭murpho999


    Doesn't mean they aren't getting sloshed on a regular basis behind closed doors.

    Not seeing drunks on the street probably says more about how the police operate in that country rather than how much the public drink. Ireland's per capita consumption is lower than quite a few countries.

    Either way, Irish people do binge more and drink to get drunk more than other countries.

    Other countries might have a lot more people who would have a few beers daily whilst many Irish would abstain during the week and go mad at the weekends.
    We have a very different attitude to drink than other countries.
    Either way, the Good Friday drinks ban does nothing to tackle this it just does the opposite.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52,748 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Doesn't mean they aren't getting sloshed on a regular basis behind closed doors.

    Not seeing drunks on the street probably says more about how the police operate in that country rather than how much the public drink. Ireland's per capita consumption is lower than quite a few countries.
    Not buying that as an excuse.
    The French people introduce their children to table wine at an early age and i've been with foreign people who can sit over two drinks for hours.
    No rush to get drunk there whereas our youth think it's a competition to see who can get sloshed the fastest.
    As I say we need to educate people at an early age on how to use alcohol correctly.


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