Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

Lancher · 20-03-2017 03:55PM

Totally agree re Joseph. His party trick is the hitch step and if that doesn't work, he offers very little.
3 tries V Scotland. Ran a decent line for one try but really all he had to do was catch and touch down.
His passing didn't stand up to the pressure in Wales game.
Was shut down against France.

Bridge93 · 20-03-2017 03:57PM

What I can't get around is how so many people keep picking Hartley for the XV. Why!? Is it his captaincy? Lack of other options? Because it's certainly not his form. A captain replaced every game at 50 mins after doing **** all does not scream lions starter.

Utopia Parkway · 20-03-2017 05:17PM

Buer wrote: »

I find it incredible that none of them have selected Jonathan Davies at 13 and only one has called on Liam Williams.

Williams probably a bit unlucky alright but up against Hogg at 15 and Daly has had a breakthrough tournament and caught the eye with his displays.

Davies hasn't been all that great to be honest. No surprise that he isn't getting on any of these teams.

Clegg · 20-03-2017 06:33PM

Davies has his strengths. Very good at running lines and is a decent defensive reader. But whatever pace he had is gone and his passing skills for an outside centre are poor.

razorblunt · 20-03-2017 08:57PM

Clegg wrote: »

Davies has his strengths. Very good at running lines and is a decent defensive reader. But whatever pace he had is gone and his passing skills for an outside centre are poor.

I actually think that this year he looks to have shaved off a few pounds and actually looks to have picked up some pace!

Buer · 20-03-2017 09:10PM

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Davies hasn't been all that great to be honest. No surprise that he isn't getting on any of these teams.

I think he's had an ok tournament. Not brilliant but far from poor. Beat defenders, made a number of breaks and showed up well in his carries more than most. I'd have said he had at least as good a tournament as Jonathan Joseph. Probably better.

Given his history, I'd say he's the only 13 that's guaranteed his spot on the plane at this point.

I think there's a very decent chance an Irish man will be wearing 13 in NZ though.

pickarooney · 20-03-2017 09:20PM

Clegg wrote: »

Davies has his strengths. Very good at running lines and is a decent defensive reader. But whatever pace he had is gone and his passing skills for an outside centre are poor.

Usually has a good boot(!) and a phenomenal fend.

RugbyLover123 · 21-03-2017 03:22PM

Listening to BOD on off the ball and he reckons it'll be Sexton Farrell at 10/12. Saw also on SS news that Farrell was being looked at for captaincy.
BOD also big upped Ringrose again, saying he was class against England. I don't think he played badly but saying he was class is a bit much. If he were to start at 13 for the lions I can see him getting seriously found out, too early for him still.

I'd go with..
1. McGrath, Vunipola, Healy
2. Owens, Best, George
3. Furlong, Cole, Sinkler
4. Launchbury, Itoje
5. AWJ (C), Lawes
6. Stander, Warburton
7. Tipuric, SOB, Haskell
8. Vunipola, Heaslip

9. Murray, Webb, Youngs
10. Sexton, Biggar

11. North, Daly, Nowell
12. Farrell, S Williams
13. Henshaw, Joseph
14. Watson, Zebo
15. Williams, Hogg

36 Players. Only 1 Scot, which I don't see happening.
Players like J Davies, Halfpenny will travel.
I also think players like Maitland, and Te'o are in with a shout. Maitland wasn't in fantastic form last time but was chosen cause he had plenty of experience from playing down there. Te'o has that experience this time plus is built for Gatland's style.

bilston · 21-03-2017 06:45PM

Farrell has played a bit at 13 for Saracens hasn't he?

Given Gatty likes a big 12 would anyone be surprised to see Sexton at 10, S.Williams at 12 and Farrell at 13?

Right now I'm going...

15 Hogg
14 North
13 Henshaw
12 Farrell
11 Daly
10 Sexton
9 Murray
1 McGrath
2 George
3 Furlong
4 Launchbury
5 Itoje
6 Stander
7 Warburton (c)
8 Vunipola

16 Owens
17 Vunipola
18 Cole
19 J.Gray
20 Tipuric
21 Webb
22 S.Williams
23 L.Williams

errlloyd · 21-03-2017 07:14PM

Lots of people have Sinkler in as their number 3 tighthead. I haven't seen much of him, but England never seem to be in a hurry to take of Cole, is Sinkler actually that good?

wp_rathead · 21-03-2017 07:48PM

errlloyd wrote: »

Lots of people have Sinkler in as their number 3 tighthead. I haven't seen much of him, but England never seem to be in a hurry to take of Cole, is Sinkler actually that good?

Ya he is really good imo, would be my 3rd choice too
Plus he wanted to be a Dinosaur when he grew up so is automatically the greatest player in the history of rugby union

.ak · 21-03-2017 10:32PM

RugbyLover123 wrote: »

Listening to BOD on off the ball and he reckons it'll be Sexton Farrell at 10/12. Saw also on SS news that Farrell was being looked at for captaincy.
BOD also big upped Ringrose again, saying he was class against England. I don't think he played badly but saying he was class is a bit much. If he were to start at 13 for the lions I can see him getting seriously found out, too early for him still.

I'd go with..
1. McGrath, Vunipola, Healy
2. Owens, Best, George
3. Furlong, Cole, Sinkler
4. Launchbury, Itoje
5. AWJ (C), Lawes
6. Stander, Warburton
7. Tipuric, SOB, Haskell
8. Vunipola, Heaslip

9. Murray, Webb, Youngs
10. Sexton, Biggar

11. North, Daly, Nowell
12. Farrell, S Williams
13. Henshaw, Joseph
14. Watson, Zebo
15. Williams, Hogg

36 Players. Only 1 Scot, which I don't see happening.
Players like J Davies, Halfpenny will travel.
I also think players like Maitland, and Te'o are in with a shout. Maitland wasn't in fantastic form last time but was chosen cause he had plenty of experience from playing down there. Te'o has that experience this time plus is built for Gatland's style.

Pretty much what I'd go for, but I think it's a 38 player squad.

With that in mind there's space for another back and forward. I think Davies will defo travel but I'd like to see Seymour in there. Also hard to imagine Halfpenny not traveling, I think he'll go at the expense of Zebo with Williams offering the versatility role and is in better form.

I think we need to bring 5 locks. Such an attritional position. I'd imagine Jonny Gray will feature.

Neil3030 · 21-03-2017 10:49PM

wp_rathead wrote: »

Ya he is really good imo, would be my 3rd choice too
Plus he wanted to be a Dinosaur when he grew up so is automatically the greatest player in the history of rugby union

OK, I don't want to know anything more about this guy. I need to stay loyal to Mike Ross and this sort of information really doesn't help.

English Lurker · 22-03-2017 03:26AM

errlloyd wrote: »

Lots of people have Sinkler in as their number 3 tighthead. I haven't seen much of him, but England never seem to be in a hurry to take of Cole, is Sinkler actually that good?

Probably the best tighthead in contention bar Furlong for loose play, probably a long way down based on scrummaging. Think he's only really in contention because there's a really weak tighthead pool.

Could go on the same basis as Mako Vunipola went as third loosehead last time. If he catches fire, he could be a great bench option because of his loose play. If he doesn't, oh well, stick him in the dirt trackers, not like an inexperienced twenty-three year old is going to kick up about not having a fair chance. Any injuries to the other two tightheads, the call-ups will leapfrog him as potential starters.

Being cynical, being a player that Borthwick and Rowntree know well will be a real boost to his chances of going. You look at last tour, Rowntree clearly had a loud voice over which third choice props went. I don't know if its the right call for the squad, but I'd put short odds on at least one of Sinckler and Marler going.

Buer · 22-03-2017 09:31AM

Sinckler is on the plane. His club coach just got named as the scrum coach for the tour.

He's fortunate though. He has never started a single test for England. As promising as he is, that's a real concern for a Lions head coach and he appears to be used primarily as an impact sub which is a luxury on a Lions tour.

I'd expect another tighthead to feature during the tour if not two more. This schedule is brutal. I think over 50 players will feature, easily.

irishbucsfan · 22-03-2017 10:21AM

Buer wrote: »

Sinckler is on the plane. His club coach just got named as the scrum coach for the tour.

He's fortunate though. He has never started a single test for England. As promising as he is, that's a real concern for a Lions head coach and he appears to be used primarily as an impact sub which is a luxury on a Lions tour.

I'd expect another tighthead to feature during the tour if not two more. This schedule is brutal. I think over 50 players will feature, easily.

I think he could be a really good option though as a midweek starter given scrummaging depth among looseheads down under. Then if we lose a test tighthead we can always phone up the-sure-to-be-coincidentally-on-holiday-in-rotorua Mike Ross

Buer · 22-03-2017 04:59PM

He was an outside chance but Huw Jones has torn his hamstring completely and requires surgery. Lions is out of the question now.

AbusesToilets · 22-03-2017 05:10PM

Thoughts on Payne making the squad? International quality center/ FB, excellent distributor and defender. I'd slot him in ahead of Davies or 1/2p personally.

Former Former · 22-03-2017 05:19PM

I think if Payne had been fit for the Six Nations he'd have been in with a good shout but the fact that Ulster are out of Europe means he doesn't really have a good platform between now and the squad announcement.

I swear, I will lose my sh*t if Leigh Halfpenny is picked.

Buer · 22-03-2017 05:21PM

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Thoughts on Payne making the squad? International quality center/ FB, excellent distributor and defender. I'd slot him in ahead of Davies or 1/2p personally.

He's in with a decent chance. Has had a good year, can play 13 and 15 and the fact that he has massive experience in NZ will help him too. Andy Farrell will surely be extolling the virtues of his defensive game as well.

I think Halfpenny and Davies are almost guaranteed to be on the plane though. The Welsh head coach, backs coach and kicking coach are picking the squad. They couldn't have it any better.

AbusesToilets · 22-03-2017 05:30PM

Be disappointing if they both make it. Neither are top 3 in their position imo. Davies still can't pass and 1/2p offers little over others bar his boot, which is less important given Sexton and Farrell's kicking.

Buer · 22-03-2017 05:38PM

Former Former wrote: »

I swear, I will lose my sh*t if Leigh Halfpenny is picked.

I think it's pretty much a guarantee.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting a test either.

Former Former · 22-03-2017 05:44PM

Buer wrote: »

I think it's pretty much a guarantee.

I wouldn't be surprised to see him starting a test either.

Well, then you're all on notice that I'm going to lose my sh*t.

Like, his form is rubbish, has been for a while and his goal-kicking is not as good as either Farrell or Sexton, one of whom (and very probably both) will be in the Test team.

In Hogg, Williams, Kearney, Brown and Daly there is no shortage of full backs.

wp_rathead · 22-03-2017 05:45PM

Former Former wrote: »

Well, then you're all on notice that I'm going to lose my sh*t.

Like, his form is rubbish, has been for a while and his goal-kicking is not as good as either Farrell or Sexton, one of whom (and very probably both) will be in the Test team.

In Hogg, Williams, Kearney, Brown and Daly there is no shortage of full backs.

I'd have Halfpenny before Brown personally

Korat · 22-03-2017 05:55PM

The view heading into the 6N was that England and Ireland were the best teams in the tournament. The end table confirmed this. The only surprise was Scotland and while they got walloped by England I think their representation in the Lions will have to reflect the fact they beat a heavily fancied Irish team and Wales in Cardiff.

More Scots in but who gets left out?

Amazingly the consensus is that Irish players get the bullet. The Welsh seem to have secured their places by having a (assistant)Lions coach who daren't drop them. The charade at the end of the French game was panic enduced by the reality that a lot of them weren't good enough to beat France nevermind NZ and even Gatland couldn't dress that up any other way.

This would be my XV for the first test;

Healy
Best
Furlong
R. Gray
Launchbury
Stander
Tipuric
B.Vunipola

Murray
Sexton (c)

Daly
Farrell
Joseph
North

Hogg

22-03-2017 06:13PM

Korat wrote: »

The view heading into the 6N was that England and Ireland were the best teams in the tournament. The end table confirmed this. The only surprise was Scotland and while they got walloped by England I think their representation in the Lions will have to reflect the fact they beat a heavily fancied Irish team and Wales in Cardiff.

More Scots in but who gets left out?

Amazingly the consensus is that Irish players get the bullet. The Welsh seem to have secured their places by having a (assistant)Lions coach who daren't drop them. The charade at the end of the French game was panic enduced by the reality that a lot of them weren't good enough to beat France nevermind NZ and even Gatland couldn't dress that up any other way.

Wales were 2 minutes away from beating England and were beating France at 80 minutes. They had a bad day against the Scots much like us but I think their table finish whilst the exact location where the buck stops, is not a full reflection on where they currently are.

I also really don't buy into it that the coaches are going to prioritise Welsh players unless it's a 50:50 and they go with what they know.

Personally I think as far as the pack is concerned the front row will be Irish and at least 1 back row will be Irish. The rest will be English, Welsh with a Scottish lock in the frame.

I think Ireland will have scrumhalf and outhalf provided both are fit and 1 centre. The rest will be primarily English with some Welsh.

Webbs · 22-03-2017 06:13PM

Former Former wrote: »

Well, then you're all on notice that I'm going to lose my sh*t.

Like, his form is rubbish, has been for a while and his goal-kicking is not as good as either Farrell or Sexton, one of whom (and very probably both) will be in the Test team.

In Hogg, Williams, Kearney, Brown and Daly there is no shortage of full backs.

Out of those 5, Williams will go as a wing, Hogg is a shoo in for the plane, Daly will go as wing and center cover not FB

So that leaves Kearney, and Brown. Defensively Kearney is the weakest of the lot so that rules him out.

So its between Halpenny and Brown, experience with Lions, a kicking option (even if its midweek team) would shade it for Halpenny. Experience counts for a lot on a tour like this and any 50/50 calls will usually go with the guy who has experience I would imagine.

Just on Halpenny he did little wrong during the Six Nations, his tackling was good as was his positioning and kicking out of hand. His attacking is poor but thats as much down to Wales style of play as it is to him. He attacks the line more and with success in Toulon.

Professor Moriarty · 22-03-2017 06:16PM

I'm surprised Moriarty doesn't get a mention in despatches. I know the back row has plenty of options but I thought he had a good 6N.

Korat · 22-03-2017 06:24PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Wales were 2 minutes away from beating England and were beating France at 80 minutes. They had a bad day against the Scots much like us but I think their table finish whilst the exact location where the buck stops, is not a full reflection on where they currently are.

I also really don't buy into it that the coaches are going to prioritise Welsh players unless it's a 50:50 and they go with what they know.

Personally I think as far as the pack is concerned the front row will be Irish and at least 1 back row will be Irish. The rest will be English, Welsh with a Scottish lock in the frame.

I think Ireland will have scrumhalf and outhalf provided both are fit and 1 centre. The rest will be primarily English with some Welsh.

How you or I merit these things means nothing. Warren Gatland, Welsh Coach, will decide.

Gats' favourites have been awful in the last few weeks, I bet he wishes he was bringing an SCW sized squad.

swiwi_ · 22-03-2017 06:31PM

Former Former wrote: »

I swear, I will lose my sh*t if Leigh Halfpenny is picked.

I don't get why so many posters are so anti-HP. Yes, he doesn't offer too much on attack, but otherwise he is a very reliable fullback, and an excellent goal kicker.

Like on the one hand, FF, you go into bat for RK, on the other hand you're not keen at all on LHP (although in fairness, you are not calling for handsome Rob to start at 15 for the Lions).

In saying all that, I don't see LHP being the type of FB to beat NZ, I would go for the much more dynamic Hogg or Liam Williams without a second thought.

Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

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