Lions 2017 [MOD WARNING IN OP]

errlloyd

Buer wrote: »

It's not but I still think it's going to get him at least one test cap. If he's in the team, he's the goal kicker and I don't see much wrong with that. He has done it before for the Lions and that will be a factor in the minds of the selectors. If there's a 75th minute penalty from 40m out wide, they'd want Halfpenny taking that more than Sexton or Farrell based on what he has done before.

CMOTDibbler wrote: »

He kicked for the Lions when Sexton was going through a poor enough spell at goal-kicking. That's long in the past now. The last kick he took in the game against England was from 51m according to the commentary team.

Amazingly across their whole careers, Sexton is actually more accurate than Halfpenny (and everybody with a decent sized sample).

This list was compiled by a guy on reddit and uses statbunker stats. Considering Sexton has never really had a "hard kick easy kick" relationship with anybody (ie someone taking the long ones), it is pretty remarkable he's on top.

http://linebreakrugby.com/2016/06/rugby-kicking-stats/


EDIT: Did not realise this was already being discussed above.

Former Former

I feel bad for kicking this off. I probably won't lose my sh*t if Halfpenny goes, and I must admit I don't watch Top 14 so he could be setting the place on fire for all I know.

But his form for Wales the last 12 months is just about good enough to have him in the overall conversation, I can't understand why he's being talked about as a definite tourist and possible/probable Test player.

His goal-kicking should not enter the conversation, he is no better than Sexton or Farrell, he doesn't have a longer range than either of those and if you want someone for the long-range hail mary kicks, then Hogg or Daly is your man, not Halfpenny.

CMOTDibbler

I think the move to France hasn't helped his game at all. I get the impression that he was signed on the back of his kicking prowess and that's how they've played him. He seems to be much more limited in his style of play since he went there.

errlloyd

English Lurker wrote: »

If you go to statbunker and look at their international stats, Sexton has 79.92, Farrell has 82.3, and Halfpenny has 85.89.

Of course Halfpenny hits marginally more than more than half of his international kicks indoors. I'd be bringing Hogg and Williams with Daly covering.

Webbs

"That leaves us with 2 spots between Kearney, Brown, Earls, Zebo, Seymour, Maitland, Nowell and Watson I think."

I would expect Watson to make it as he has a bit of an X factor, I think that Seymour would also make it. Have been impressed by his finishing and hes a solid defender

Buer

Webbs wrote: »

"That leaves us with 2 spots between Kearney, Brown, Earls, Zebo, Seymour, Maitland, Nowell and Watson I think."

I would expect Watson to make it as he has a bit of an X factor, I think that Seymour would also make it. Have been impressed by his finishing and hes a solid defender

I'd take Watson too. He's the stand out person from that list in terms of an individual that could catch fire and be starting the tests. He needs to show sharpness and form in the next couple of weeks though. The Lions can't afford to allow him game time on tour to try and find some form

I don't see any of the others being able to offer that same upside although they'll all be able to deliver solid performances.

Nowell and Earls would probably be my next choices due to their versatility and good form.

Korat

One of the biggest problems with retaining Gatland as Lions coach, again while he's still employed by Wales, is his natural attachment and faith in his Welsh players but also the players who delivered in the last Lions tour regardless of current form. I'm certain Halfpenny, AWJ, Warburton, Faletau and maybe even Jonathan Davies will go and many of them will start the first test based on their history with the coach rather than merit.

Former Former

Alun Wyn Jones is out for six weeks - which would take him up to early/mid-May.

Realistically, he'll still be named in the squad but any setback is going to put him in real trouble.

Clegg

It's not out of the realms of possibility that Heaslip travels. He is a proven performer for the Lions and has five test caps over two tours. Probably wouldn't make the test side but previous experience counts for a lot on these tours. He'd make a good midweek captain.

Clegg

Clegg wrote: »

It's not out of the realms of possibility that Heaslip travels. He is a proven performer for the Lions and has five test caps over two tours. Probably wouldn't make the test side but experience counts for a lot in these yours. He'd make a good midweek captain.

But then Stander has to go...

conf101

Korat wrote: »

One of the biggest problems with retaining Gatland as Lions coach, again while he's still employed by Wales, is his natural attachment and faith in his Welsh players but also the players who delivered in the last Lions tour regardless of current form. I'm certain Halfpenny, AWJ, Warburton, Faletau and maybe even Jonathan Davies will go and many of them will start the first test based on their history with the coach rather than merit.

I agree that those players might travel based on their Lions experience but I don't think that will get them into the test side. There are 5 games before the first test for Gatland to get a good look at the entire squad

Neil3030

Clegg wrote: »

It's not out of the realms of possibility that Heaslip travels. He is a proven performer for the Lions and has five test caps over two tours. Probably wouldn't make the test side but previous experience counts for a lot on these tours. He'd make a good midweek captain.

Yeah it's hard to see how Heaslip isn't considered amongst a cohort of 8 or 9 back row forwards. Gatland's flankers will be Warburton, Tipuric, SOB, Stander, POM and possibly Watson. That leaves space for at least 2 Number 8s, and one will definitely be Big Billy. If the other isn't Heaslip who else could it be? Moriarty maybe? I'd say he'll pick Heaslip.

KBurke85

Peyper, Garces and Poite are the officals for the tests. Reffing a match each http://www.worldrugby.org/news/233491

Korat

KBurke85 wrote: »

Peyper, Garces and Poite are the officals for the tests.

If that's in order of appearance pick a team to knock lumps out of them in the first test.

buck65

I think Gatland will surprise a few with his selections this time. Playing it safe against the AB's will lead to defeat, the only hope is with pace, power and youth. Bringing guys in their 30s after a long season and a long tour there will end in defeat and injury for some.
That's why I think Henshaw, Ringrose, Furlong, Stander and O Mahony are going along with Murray obviously, Sexton I still believe will be pulled by a phantom injury.

bilston

KBurke85 wrote: »

Peyper, Garces and Poite are the officals for the tests. Reffing a match each http://www.worldrugby.org/news/233491

Happy to see Garces reffing. I don't mind Poite as much as some. Peyper....

Podge_irl

buck65 wrote: »

Sexton I still believe will be pulled by a phantom injury.

He may well get injured but if he's fit he'll go - who would be pulling him? He'll want to go himself

razorblunt

bilston wrote: »

Happy to see Garces reffing. I don't mind Poite as much as some. Peyper....

I'm quite happy with Poite, I think he's improved an awful lot and his communication is excellent.
Less sure of Garces, but they're both miles ahead of Peyper.

bilston

razorblunt wrote: »

bilston wrote: »

Happy to see Garces reffing. I don't mind Poite as much as some. Peyper....

I'm quite happy with Poite, I think he's improved an awful lot and his communication is excellent.
Less sure of Garces, but they're both miles ahead of Peyper.

There must be someone else other than Peyper. Can't remember his name but I'm nearly sure there is a young Aussie ref who has been doing well lately. I guess there is a seniority amongst refs which isn't easily broken.

Korat

Why didn't Rob Howley make major changes to the Welsh team after succesive defeats and poor performances by high profile players?

My view is that Gatland has certain players for his Lions plans who he has told Howley cannot be dropped. It's proven by the current public scrutiny that they were better off playing badly, like Halfpenny, AWJ and Warburton than being dropped like Kearney, Toner and Heaslip.

sydthebeat

bilston wrote: »

There must be someone else other than Peyper. Can't remember his name but I'm nearly sure there is a young Aussie ref who has been doing well lately. I guess there is a seniority amongst refs which isn't easily broken.

thats angus gardner

Buer

Korat wrote:

My view is that Gatland has certain players for his Lions plans who he has told Howley cannot be dropped. It's proven by the current public scrutiny that they were better off playing badly, like Halfpenny, AWJ and Warburton than being dropped like Kearney, Toner and Heaslip.

Eh?! Warburton had a great tournament. He's in contention for captain and in many people's test side now. AWJ and Halfpenny had OK campaigns. Not impressive, not poor and both are senior players who have important roles.

And only Toner was dropped.

Yeah_Right

sydthebeat wrote: »

thats angus gardner

I rate him. Think he is a good ref.

Lions management wouldn't like him as he would probably encourage a fast game that the Lions couldn't live with.

irishbucsfan

Yeah_Right wrote: »

I rate him. Think he is a good ref.

Lions management wouldn't like him as he would probably encourage a fast game that the Lions couldn't live with.

Thems fighting speaks there mr bottom hemsiphere

Yeah_Right

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Thems fighting speaks there mr bottom hemsiphere

Just warming up mate.

iancm25

razorblunt wrote: »

I'm quite happy with Poite, I think he's improved an awful lot and his communication is excellent.
Less sure of Garces, but they're both miles ahead of Peyper.

And Owens is miles ahead of all 3...wonder why he doesn't appear on the fixture list anywhere. Anyone any ideas?

http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/15775.php#.WNQafhLyjeR

.ak

iancm25 wrote: »

And Owens is miles ahead of all 3...wonder why he doesn't appear on the fixture list anywhere. Anyone any ideas?

http://www.lionsrugby.com/news/15775.php#.WNQafhLyjeR

... He's Welsh?

AbusesToilets

Owens is seriously over rated as ref. Regularly leaves a free for all at the breakdown, and far too fond of the spotlight these days.

Peyper is a disgrace, one of the worst refs working. Gardner is very good, thought he was excellent in SA.

swiwi_

bilston wrote: »

There must be someone else other than Peyper. Can't remember his name but I'm nearly sure there is a young Aussie ref who has been doing well lately. I guess there is a seniority amongst refs which isn't easily broken.

2017 LIONS TOUR REFEREES:

June 3 - Provincial Union XV (Angus Gardner, Australia)

June 7 - Blues (Pascal Gauzere, France)

June 10 - Crusaders (Mathieu Raynal, France)

June 13 - Highlanders (Angus Gardner)

June 17 - NZ Maori (Jaco Peyper, South Africa)

June 20 - Chiefs (Jerome Garces, France)

June 24 - New Zealand (Jaco Peyper)

June 27 - Hurricanes (Romain Poite, France)

July 1 - New Zealand (Jerome Garces)

July 8 - New Zealand (Romain Poite)

Happy enough with that. I don't like Peyper any more than you guys - would happily take Garcès for all 3 tests TBH. Raynal is good too, and I imagine has free drinks for life in Ireland.

Zzippy

Clegg wrote: »

It's not out of the realms of possibility that Heaslip travels. He is a proven performer for the Lions and has five test caps over two tours. Probably wouldn't make the test side but previous experience counts for a lot on these tours. He'd make a good midweek captain.

I'm sure he'd be targeting a test spot and not the dubious honour of midweek captain this far out. Watching the rugby highlights show on BBC on Sunday and Guscott reckoned POM for a midweek captain. Bit of a backhanded compliment at this stage...